Are you a ham-fisted goon who lacks situational awareness and is just happy to walk away from each hop with all the big pieces still on the jet? Well, if so, the Royal Australian Air Force wants you!
This from Epicos.com:
In a world first for an Air Force and an infra-red guided missile, Air Combat Group (ACG) of the Royal Australian Air Force has successfully carried out the first in-service ‘Lock After Launch’ firing of an ASRAAM (Advanced short-range air-to-air missile) at a target located behind the wing-line of the “shooter” aircraft. The firing was conducted from an F/A-18 fighter aircraft, at low level and typical fighter speed, at a target located behind the fighter at a range in excess of 5km. The result was a direct hit on the target.
The engagement simulated a “chase down” situation by an enemy fighter and successfully demonstrated the potential for an all-round self protection capability with the ASRAAM. This capability is inherent on all platforms that provide pre-launch ‘over the shoulder’ designation information such as F/A-18, Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 JSF.
So this settles it once and for all. We no longer care about Ps curves and air-to-air performance of the airplane. I don’t want to debate who would win a 1-v-1 between a MiG-37 and a JSF. It just doesn’t matter.
Here’s a new bumper sticker idea (this year’s “My other car is an F-18″): “My ASRAAM missile hides the fact that I’m a grape.”
(Gouge: NC)
– Ward
{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
Are you being ironic or what?
I really can’t see what’s wrong with adding a possibility to pilots’ arsenals.
This is a case of technology killing traditional etiquette, Marchello. Look at this scenario: The guy had the threat parked at his six and he still gets a kill? I don’t see this pilot going back to the ready room and bragging about that one. What’s next? Drone pilots claiming POW status when their Predators get shot down?
It just ain’t cricket, shipmate. That’s all I’m saying.
Yeah, I heard they are taking out the HUD on the Aussie’s planes and replacing it with a wide screen tv. They are also putting in a voice activated popcorn dispenser.
Well, they need something to do while they are up there…
Well, now that it’s been tested in a manned aircraft, we have a defensive weapon for UCAVs that doesn’t require human input. The Unmanned Strike Package is now complete.
Joint helment mounted cueing systems and lock on after launch is nothing new. They’re in the aresnal of multiple air forces around the world now. Nothing new – move on.
Agreed. I’m surprised by this article. I’m sure if this technology saved the life of the author’s son or daughter someday, it would be retracted. PS- We can shoot Mk 48′s behind us, too.
Wouldn’t it just be faster if they mounted half the missiles backwards on the wing?
What is with the Aussie bashing?
This article is irresponsible at best. So what if it “kills traditional etiquette”? First of all, air to air warfare has only been around for about 90 years, so you aren’t really losing much of a “tradition”. Naval warfare was the same for thousands of years until missiles came along, you don’t see anyone complaining that destroyers can’t deliver broadsides. All that is moot anyway – if this missile can increase the fighting effectiveness of a fighter pilot, that’s all I need to hear. That’s all that really matters.
I’ve heard that backwards missiles have trouble because they are essentially slowing down, passing through zero velocity and speeding back up. As they lose airspeed, they lose control and tumble, causing them to lose lock.
This missile appears to circle around the plane keeping its air velocity up.
“This is a case of technology killing traditional etiquette, Marchello. Look at this scenario: The guy had the threat parked at his six and he still gets a kill? I don’t see this pilot going back to the ready room and bragging about that one. What’s next? Drone pilots claiming POW status when their Predators get shot down?
It just ain’t cricket, shipmate. That’s all I’m saying.”
-Funny, I thought warfare was about protecting your country and its interests, not your ego.
Exactly, wilcox.
I think the article is a little tongue in cheek.
LOL, the Russians did this with the R-73R years ago.
The scan of the article about that has been on the net for years, what did you think was the Su-30′s rear radar meant for?
Look at this:
http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/RAFAQ/R-73.html
Look at the bottom of that page:
“Last modified on: Friday, July 11, 1997.”
The IRIS-T SL version for vertical launch as MEADS’s smaller missile and the MICA IR VL both apply lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) as necessary standard mode. There’s no way how they could use LOBL mode – leaving no doubt about these missile’s LOAL capability.
Of course, none of this was U.S. or British, so how should this be known to an Anglo-American readership? I mean, it cannot be true – a revolutionary tool of war, not invented by Americans?
It can only exist once the Brits or Americans published it!
Hang out with fighter pilots much, bdwilcox?
Yeah, it’s a little like the seinfeld skit about bike helmets.. people invent bicycles, then start receiving head injuries. The solution isn’t to stop riding bikes, it’s to invent a helmet. So rather than change procedures, just stick something new on that means you can keep doing the same stupid shit.
Like a backwards firing missile if you keep getting back doored by Migs if you’re an Aussie airman.
Or if you’re a yank, a whole new useless truck, so instead of just driving around the IED, now you can still drive over it and live… They could make a funny bumper sticker for that one too ^_-
Silly.
While i have to agree this is realy a good idea been wondering why we didnt havem in the first place. Also is anyone working on anti-missile systems for aircraft? and i dont mean flairs.
and now…
“Or if you’re a yank, a whole new useless truck, so instead of just driving around the IED, now you can still drive over it and live… They could make a funny bumper sticker for that one too ^_-”
Posted by: jim at March 6, 2009 03:32 PM
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Jim….thats a stupid comment in my opinion i doubt if a marine or soldier or even a retarded gerbal new they where about to hit a IED theyd go ehhhh….&^$% it!…the problem with ieds is sometimes you cant see em or there remote detonated that was by far as stupid a comment as ive ever seen on this sight…..and i make alot of stupid comments….You must think americans or “Yanks” which im from the south call me a yank in person i punch you :)Anyways i can guarante you that were not all hicks like you think we are.
ok well i kind am but well lets just leave it at that
To be clear: I fully support technological developments that make Americans and our allies more lethal.
And to be clear, I think Australians rock . . . even Australian Hornet drivers.
Further, I recommend the jingoes offended by this post get out of the Star Trek convention for awhile and grab a beer.
Ward,
Understand that these guys don’t know what it is like to be a part of the best group of pilots and crew on the face of the Earth, NAVAIR. I know you would never even think of launching a missile if you were getting eaten alive because you sucked as a pilot. Death before dishonor my friend.
I am sure the Air Force will adopt this method of aerial combat soon though. Probably already teaching it a Nellis with borrowed ASRAAMS.
DC2
And here we are, not one of us mentioning phasers, warp drives, Starfleet, or the Klingon menace – and we still get the “star trek convention” treatment. Tsk tsk Ward, it seems you let your NAVAIR pride cloud your usually sound logic.
And as for you DC2, if killing an enemy fighter that obviously has the advantage over me is dishonorable, I will gladly be dishonorable any day – if only because I would know that that is one less fighter my fellow pilots and my country will have to deal with.
@DC2:
You can bet that this is a capability of AIM-9X anyway.
“Hang out with fighter pilots much, bdwilcox?”
-As the anointed one would say, “That’s above my pay grade.”
Instead I sit around all day with a bunch of grunts watching Top Gun on infinite loop, fantasizing we were Tom Cruise or Val Kilmer, and making up cool call-signs for each other like “Snowman” and “Flash”.
Then, when we’re exhausted from all the possibilities, we go out and get manicures so we can feel like real fighter pilots.
Pppphhhhbbbtttttt! :o)
All this means is that we’re about to catch up to the Israelis Python series missiles. I’d like to see you talk like that about the IAF.
It’s all cool, but I think it’s easy to forget about the public’s perception- Even if what the smaller community understands is equally important.
And I brew my own beer. :)
LEAPIN LIZARDS! GLORY!
At last, someone gets it….pilots don’t kill airplanes! Missiles do.
Smart missile on a $ Million P-51 takes out $100 Million plane. Well son of a gun.
Further, I recommend the jingoes offended by this post get out of the Star Trek convention for awhile and grab a beer.
Posted by: Ward at March 6, 2009 04:21 PM
pft!!! ward shows what your not thinkin right man….take the beer to the convention give it to one of the like 5 women there who look hot and take her home and f&^k her brains out jesus man!!!!
hell and if shes ugly you drunk to so wtf!
I am an aussie, we don’t need top line planes we have pine gap facility (u.s base) and a friendly large country for the good ol’ u.s of a to park thier air force if we have probs with anybody.
it’s called ANZUS treaty
btw, is the RAN back from holiday yet?
Valcan, I expect as many grunts run over ieds through ineptitude as pilots get backdoored by being stupid/lazy…
My post was as much a gag as Wards’ original… It’s a joke.. folks need to lighten up.. My wife is a yank from kentucky :) Americans like to give their mates just as much of a hard time as Aussies… I was just stickin some back to Ward …
Where is the love guys?
Diablo,
Yes, the RAN is back… as I said before… let us never speak of it again :D
fair enough jim!
just remember lads, that when you give Australia sh*t in the crusader stakes, there was a period there where she was occupying more sovereign muslim nations that the us, uk or canada – ie Iraq, Afghanistan, and a chunk of Indonesia.
Arm Predators with it? Remote kills?
Hasn’t anybody thought of designing a pivoting missile hardpoint so the missile can be fired backwards or in any direction? Must be effective as hell.
I’ve always wondered about that. Is there a heavy drag penalty for having the rear of the missile facing opposite that of flight?
This also begs the question of what happens to aircraft carrying missiles internally, like the F-22.
I suppose someone could design a rear-facing hardpoint onto an aircraft carrying missiles internally…or if there a way to pass tracking information to the missile from the aircraft to guide it into target? Maybe throw in a little laser tracking system? It doesn’t need to be accurate, just something to vector the missile in the right direction?
James,
You don’t seem to understand. A Naval Aviator would never get into that position, not even Ward.
We always leave the dying to the Air Force.
DC2
@Sven
You can bet that this is a capability of AIM-9X anyway.
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Your right, they are almost the same seeker. America was supposed to initially buy this missile but it ran into problems. When we came out with the aim-9x we just incorporated the features from the asraam seeker.
If I was a pilot, I don’t care how I get the kill, it just beats going down in a smoldering 50million dollar rec.
It’s impressive that you can write a post with so much slant and lack of context that it completely fails to communicate anything at all about the technology.
What’s this site supposed to be about again?
This is acceptable so long as the RAAF maintains a high standard of pilot training and quality, regardless of whether or not their planes happen to utilize a lock-after-launch ASRAAM. Technology cannot substitute for skill… but the two *together* would be incredible.
Cue stupid joke about ASRAAMing a target behind you… seriously, how was this acronym approved?
Wembley,
Ward is a Naval Aviator. Hence his little dig at how a crappy Aussie pilot can now kill the other guy even though he is a crappy pilot.
Sibling rivalry man. Get over it. The post was funny and informative at the same time.
DC2
i just recentley read a report that said the aussie soldier is the best trained soldier in the world so i cant imagine them doing a bad job with there pilots .im not an aussie by the way im from florida
Serious question for Ward:
If this missile is so good and capable, why don’t we ditch fighters entirely, load up a C-130 or B-52 with an AWACS-like radar, long range BVR all-aspect missiles, and phenomenal ECM, then just stick them on patrol at high altitude over enemy airspace so they can shoot down everything that flies.
Hell, we could even give them interceptor missiles and anti-radiation missiles to deal with SAMs, on top of the ECM.
With all that altitude and range, you wouldn’t need speed and maneuverability at all anymore.
I wonder if the drone tried to evade the shot or dropped flares? Probably not, then the missile might have missed and it wouldn’t be reported.
@DC2: If Ward can’t be informative and entertaining at the same time, he’s in the wrong job. The article should at least have told us a bit about the hardware and how it compares to the AIM-9X.
And if parading your prejudices is supposed to be witty – well, I hope someone stops him before he starts trotting out ‘amusing’ and ‘ironic’ digs at African-American pilots, female pilots, Jewish pilots etc. Being an aviator doesn’t excuse you from acting like an adult.
Anyone who doesn’t think it would be great to be able to terminate a bogey in your six o’clock hasn’t ever flown a fighter.
Of course you should never let anyone get there in the first place…but stuff happens!
The tone of the article was designed to be amusing -and it was successful. I have never met an Aussie who couldn’t take a joke -and this was just good natured ribbing.
I always thought a rear and slightly upward-facing minigun would be a worthwhile addition to F18 (or any other fighter) weapons suite. It would sure as hell get a pursuers attention!
The close-in fight is suicide -but an ace in the hole is always a good plan!
Jock Williams
Hasn’t anybody thought of designing a pivoting missile hardpoint so the missile can be fired backwards or in any direction? Must be effective as hell.
d-fens,
One of the several reasons for the shape of a missile is aerodynamics. Actually that’s pretty much the main reason. With the possibility for any jet we own to go supersonic, a missile facing any direction other than forward is just going to shear off from that much surface area being exposed to that kind of velocity. As far as the LOAL ability in the ASRAAM, I don’t see how saving your own ass is a bad thing. Just because the dude isn’t in front of you doesn’t mean he’s not still your enemy. Plus, because of the short range of the ASRAAM, there is a way to escape the lock, if you airbrake, and drop target when you see it fire. Since it only goes a max of 18 km, if you get scared enough to leave, by the time that missle comes around to get you, you’ll be long gone.
Aviators are too adults!
So there!
(former private pilot)
The Python 5 does all that and came out in 2003. The USAF ordered some in 2006.
Nothing more to see here…move on
James,
You don’t seem to understand. A Naval Aviator would never get into that position, not even Ward.
We always leave the dying to the Air Force.
DC2
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DC2, with 23+ years in the US Army (AKA Blood ‘N Guts Wholesale)I would point out that the service where only the officers fight don’t rack up a very high percentage of casualties, and it matters not if he takes off from a ship or land.
Also, the remark about armoring trucks etc. displays a total ignorance of the ground-fighter’s role. Unless you are wading in with a gun and knife and watching for a chance to kick the other guy in the jewels you are like someone circling a street brawl looking for a chance to throw a brick and run. Chances of those actually in there swinging becoming statistics are ‘way higher.
That said, I knew some Aussies and Kiwis in VietNam–none of them were either stupid, incompetent nor cowardly.