I’m completely flabbergasted by this CIA program that the spooks supposedly lied to Congress about for the last eight years.
Apparently the program was initiated after 9/11, but the critics are still mum on what the nature of the program was. Now I want a little speculating here.
Our boy Bryant Jordan says he heard the program may center around an elite assassination squad that was put together of the Sept. 11 attacks and reported exclusively to then VP Cheney. I love that story, but it doesn’t sound believable since Panetta only learned about it a few months ago and shut it down then.
Again, back to Seymour Hersh rumors, was it a program to upend the Iranian regime with Delta operators, CIA cutouts and political manipulation? Maybe.
Huff Post actually has a good article on this and says one of its sources said even Republicans were stunned when they learned about the program. I have a feeling it’s a pretty hard core one given the silence so far on what the nature of the program was. We all know that Congress leaks like a sieve — especially if it will gain political points for certain players. So if the folks in the know have been quiet this long, it’s gotta be pretty damned Earth shaking…
…which makes me want to know even more…
All right readers, what do you think about this? So what was this TOP SECRET program?
– Christian
{ 71 comments… read them below or add one }
Sneak suitcase nukes into Iran, pre-positioned near key cities and NBC facilities. The Iranians so much as looked funny toward us, we’d make sure they knew we had them by the balls.
Run some of our subs up onto the beach near Bushehr… pop some dummy ADCAPs out onto the sand for effect… squids go topside, have a Steel Beach with pork BBQ.
I’ve seen it done.
That Huffington site’s visuals are something terrible to look at.
Was this in anyway related to that program aluded to in the Seymour M. Hersh article,”Preparing the Battlefield” for The New Yorker?
If it was an assassination team, I wonder if it was Rumsfeld’s P2OG group come to life.
I had a presentation that for the life of me I can’t find and it had slides showing that this group would “Develop an entirely new capability to proactively, preemptively EVOKE [i added caps]responses from adversary/terrorist groups,” according to the Defense Science Board”
Can you provide links to some of the sources? I can’t find the Huff Post article…
So Nancy Pelosi was telling the truth, huh?
Perhaps its a combination of my lack of sleep plus certain substances that entered my body last night, but I can’t pick up on the tone of the post. I did not hear about the alleged program, so I am left skeptical as to whether or not this post is a sarcastic lampoon of some stupid politician nonsense about the CIA, or whether its speculation about an actual alleged secret program that was recently leaked. I apologize for my current state of stupidity, but I would very much appreciate it if someone could educate me.
While “ash” programs described here are almost a given, I’m thinking this is about a HUGE, wide ranging data collection program that would sicken even the most hawkish Republicans.
I shudder to think how our lives have been absorbed and categorized by certain supercomputers in certain buildings…
My guess….operations against US citizens within our own borders.
Christian,
I’d bet that the program was a more advanced form of data mining program than Able Danger.
Nice picture!
If it was an assassination program a la Treadstone (from the Bourne series) wouldn’t we have heard about some of our adversaries disappearing? If anything, I think it might be something akin to some of the stuff that was revealed during the Church Committee:intelligence agencies collecting information on the political activities of US citizens, intelligence agencies intercepting US citizens mail etc. I truly doubt it was something that was “nefarious,” although violating the constitutional rights is pretty morally ambiguous. MOreover, if we had Jason Bourne Solid Snak and Sam Fisher types (i.e. super spies), wouldn’t Al Qaeda be completely dismantled by now? I just don’t think a assassination program completely adds up.
Watchdog group: Dozens of active-duty troops found on neo-Nazi site
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=63650
It was a program to rig the Iranian elections and perpetuate follow-on demonstrations.
To the poster “AEF”:
You wrote: “Can you provide links to some of the sources? I can’t find the Huff Post article…”
Maybe this (slightly different) article here will interest you:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/squad-run-by-dick-cheney-assassinated-benazir-hersh-959
It’s more than a little obvious that Panetta got orders from Team Obama to cover for Queen Nancy’s BS-spree… but their are other centers of power at Langley that won’t stand for this rubbish.
And Pelosi was every bit as informed on the decision to us EITs as were the GOP- but is now lying about it in an attempt to appease the antiwar left and fulfill specious campaign posturing.
And apparently Pelosi and Obama forgot something: the CIA KILLS people
It’s more than a little obvious that Panetta got orders from Team Obama to cover for Queen Nancy’s BS-spree… but their are other centers of power at Langley that won’t stand for this rubbish.
And Pelosi was every bit as informed on the decision to us EITs as were the GOP… but is now lying about it in an attempt to appease the antiwar left and fulfill specious campaign posturing.
And apparently Pelosi and Obama forgot something: the CIA KILLS people… it’s in their job description. Did these two really think that these killers were going to just meekly take-one-for-the-team… when the team captain is a lying, incompetent, arrogant nebbish who has basically told them they need to kiss his ring? -please
Obama really kicked an ant hill with his ill-advised and politically motivated release of Bush Administration memos regarding EITs.
Let’s have a hearing and get it all out there, shall we? Then watch the rats scatter who attacked Bush for protecting the country from terrorist attack… but who clearly knew what was going on five years before we heard a peep out of them.
Last I heard Panetta stood up for his agancy and refuted Pelosi’s statements.
It was a clandestine program to parachute Chuck Norris into Iran and punch Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the gonads.
“Last I heard Panetta stood up for his agancy and refuted Pelosi’s statements”
Panetta said that it is not CIA policy to mislead Congress, specifically using the present tense. Learn to read.
“nd apparently Pelosi and Obama forgot something: the CIA KILLS people… it’s in their job description. Did these two really think that these killers were going to just meekly take-one-for-the-team… when the team captain is a lying, incompetent, arrogant nebbish who has basically told them they need to kiss his ring? -please”
I’m sorry, but are you suggesting that someone in the CIA is going to kill either the President, the DCI, or the Speaker of the House?
Total:
“Last I heard Panetta stood up for his agancy and refuted Pelosi’s statements”
Panetta said that it is not CIA policy to mislead Congress, specifically using the present tense. Learn to read.
______________________________________
What did you expect him to say, “Pelosi is a liar?” Why don’t you calm down, instead of going on a tirade.
“What did you expect him to say, “Pelosi is a liar?” Why don’t you calm down, instead of going on a tirade.
”
Oh please. If he’d meant to deny it, he would have said it straight out, instead of weaseling around it.
Some good entries so far.
1) I think any suggestion that is too focussed upon Iran is unlikely. The immediate problem was Islamic terrorism which could have come from anywhere in the Middle-east, North Africa, or other locations. The other immediate problem was how they got here and remained here without notice.
2) I especially like the suggestion of infiltration of domestic mosques. Our Constitution permits the freedom of religion, but not to the extent that persons are free to act to destroy the Constitution and the country. Fourteen hundred years of history teach that there is no such thing as a safe muslim.
Whatever it was, it is a shame that it has now been revealed and terminated.
Here’s irony for you: Congress complaining about someone else lying. I guess they hate the competition.
The first rule of intelligence: If you want to keep a secret, don’t tell anyone.
The first rule of politics: Everything I know, I can use to keep myself in office.
Posted by: CTR1(SW)
2) I especially like the suggestion of infiltration of domestic mosques. Our Constitution permits the freedom of religion, but not to the extent that persons are free to act to destroy the Constitution and the country. Fourteen hundred years of history teach that there is no such thing as a safe muslim.
_______________________________________________
I know and have worked with many Muslims, and by and large they are good hardworking people that take the discrimination that comes their way on the chin. Don’t let the extremism fostered by a couple of nuts color your views about Muslims or Islam.
A secret government program to breed super intelegent war bunnies. BunBun is born.
I seriously doubt it is data mining. That stuff is in the realm of the NSA, where it belongs, and not the CIA.
And to be honest, I don’t care if the NSA “spies” on Americans, because the NSA doesn’t have a human being reading through a person’s emails or phone transcripts. It’s all AI. The same can’t be said of the FBI or the other anti-terrorism cops.
fake a program, steal money used… and bribe both parties in congress to keep silent :P
or capture OBL and keep his appearances up to keep War on terror going?
After seeing the link, I was able to read the article which is very thin on details.
That said, Congressional members now say they didn’t know, but the truth is they didn’t want to know. They absolved themselves of their responsibility to act as a check to the executive branch, and now they want to make the CIA the scapegoat.
So the real question is “Do politicians care more about their jobs then the security of the nation?”
Of course that is rhetorical.
1. Assassination of Islamic American citizens with ties to terrorist organizations.
2. Disinformation campaign aimed at discrediting high-profile Islamic leaders in the U.S. by digitally inserting them into compromising situations, then uploading the videos to YouTube
Patriotism does not have a four year shelf life, unfortunately, politicians do.
>and now they want to make the CIA the scapegoat.
Hey anti-American pro-terrorist rights traitor in the name of lawmakers, give a try.
You idiots will be another scapegoat trapped like Pelosi.
No more KGB’s Church committee.
It was Arsenal Gear! Or the plot to do away with Michael Jackson, Fawcett, Billy Mays, Mcnair,and others
Sometimes things need to be done and there must not be any discussion about it because as we have seen before, people talk. When you are dealing with such a sensitive issue there has to be absolute secrecy. The least amount of people that know, the better.
If you think this is the first time anything like this has been done then you really need a reality check. I think there should be more of this type of thing so that the enemy that wants to KILL US will be scared to death of us.
It works. Terrorism is just that. There are no rules in this that the enemy will play by. We need to be able to take the gloves off and fight the way they do. If that means taking out their funding source, so be it and by any means we can. If it means taking out their families, so be it.
You can not fight a war on terror and hope to be successful by applying rules and regulations along with restrictions to those that need to be down and dirty with the enemy. I am not talking about the prison stuff and all that. I am talking about those men and women on the ground doing the work that have no names and do not want to have a name known in the public forum. They need to be able to operate as they see fit to get to the bad guys and eliminate the target so the rest of America can have the freedom to complain about how someone provides their freedom that they have.
It’s really amusing all the speculative stories that are posted here! to infil mosques within the United States wouldn’t be that big of a deal, that would be an expected course of action. After all, how many right-wing Christian groups have FBI agents in them? a bunch. They can’t make a move without getting busted anymore. And data collection? nah..NSA’s been doing it for years, will continue to do so, regardless of anyone telling them not too. They answer to no-one. They’ll never stop collecting data. The real truth is basic and simple, it revolves around a team at Fort Bragg called J10 and a unit at Fort Meade called AWG. This program takes the fight to the enemy. Anyone remember when bush said “most of this war will be fought in secret”?? that’s what is happening. It’s a psych warfare game and it’s working.
also, forgot to mention contrary to what is listed here, CIA has been authorized to carry out assasinations (overseas only) since before 9/11. They do it all the time, who do you think is whacking all the bad guys in Pakistan with the drones? it’s not the military. whether by a hellfire fired from a predator into a terrorist vehicle or hut, or a guy on the ground who puts a .22 calibre into their head, what’s the #$#$ difference?
“Fourteen hundred years of history teach that there is no such thing as a safe muslim.”
CTR, can you clarify what you mean by that? Do you have examples or was this just an opportunity to share some anti-Muslim bigotry?
I think we should leave the CIA and Delta members alone in this matter. We were attacked! All of them who started this matter should pay with their lives! They kill us and we should sit around and let them do it again? I think not! Send all the CIA, Delta, SEAL Team 6 members after them and kill them all! I for one support them and wish them the best in hunting down those bastards around the world! GOOD HUNTING BOYS!
My money is against this having anything to do with our own Muslim citizens.
For those interested, or offended. My comment, – There is no such thing as a safe muslim – is not anti-muslim, or hate rhetoric. It is a rational conclusion based upon history, the Koran, and other information. Specifically, there are TWO former terrorists traveling the US warning anyone who will listen: Walid Shoebat and Kamal Saleem. Kamal Saleem was in the inner circle of, and personally worked for, Yassar Arafat.
The West has a serious worldview problem. There are too many with the – live and let live – attitude, or the – your religion is good for you – attitude. You can believe that all you want, right up to the moment that a muslim cuts your head off (commanded 106 times in the Koran).
Note: the peace living muslim who just wants to get along is DISOBEYING the Koran.
I could say more but . . . those truely interested will investigate, those fully brainwashed by the popular media would not believe anyway.
As a man who has served his country without regards to the racist activity i witnessed am still stunned by how people brand people terrorist without re-thinking the fact that we live in “RACISM CENTRAL”. Everyone still crying about lives lost while yelling for more killing. People are people and just because you dont understand their culture dont mean they should die. As long as you thrive on hate, hate will kill you. We need to hold those we put in power who commit crimes against other countries accountable. As long as we condone killing we can expect people here to die. I fought for my country, now i would to see some hands extended for peace so that all humans can enjoy each others differences.
Defense Tech really should do a story day on how Muslims are dirty. With the number of brownshirts reading the site it would be their most popular ever.
What I don’t understand is we call our Americans that lived in the 1940s the greatest generation…
Those that fought were heros to the last man no doubt, but this is what I don’t get.
That generation, “The Greatest”, put thousands of Japanese Americans in intern camps, to protect American safety on the home front. I mean, Japanese American soldiers were on the front lines, while their families were pulled out of their homes and put in camps. Just because they “looked” like the enemy…
Well, what should we call our generation? We are much more civilized than that one. I mean, we are at war with militant Islamist. We fought a major battle against Sadaam Hussein. And to prove that we are better, we have elected a President with an Islamic name and even has the same middle name as our main enemy’s last name. We have come very far indeed…
CTR
Did you just claim that the Quran commands the faithful to cut off heads 106 times? Assuming you have not read the Quran, what is your source?
I asked you to provide examples to support your argument, the best you could do was two guys? Two people, out of 1.2 billion. If I can find two former Jews or Christians will I therefore be justified to say “there are no safe Jews or Christians”?
If you cannot support your argument then just admit it.
Ironically, you went on to claim that others were “brainwashed”.
The US for the most part is ignorant to the Muslim faith. The Quran calls for the Muslim faith to convert the world, by choice or by force. Meaning, the nations can convert peaceably or by war. The Muslim religion is not one of peace.
The militant Islamists follow this decree, many others are like the Christians or Jews today that are more secular or social towards their faith. They show up to Synagogue on Saturday or Church on Sunday and go through the motions, but that is it.
Have you ever wondered why the Militant Muslims hate the US and the jews? The Muslims hate the Jews because they are the children of the Promise to Abraham, most people don’t know, don’t understand, or don’t care about this, but the militant Islamists do. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. God promised his blessings on Isaac and his descendents, the Jews. Ishmael was born of Abraham’s slave girl, and he is the father of the Muslims.
The Muslims are not the children of the promise, but they twist the story and say that the Jews are the childen of the slave woman. For it to be true, Israel must not exist, and definetly must not own Jerusalem, the City God loves. America usually supports and defends Israel. That is why many Muslims, even in Saudia Arabia are taught to hate the Jews and Americans.
The militant Muslims will not stop until they finish their goal or are stopped altogether. Trying to reason with them will not work, because they feel they are performing their religious duty.
Indeed, the U.S is not well informed when it comes to Islam.
Islam is a religion that believes in self-defense. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody who visits this site believes in the same thing.
Forcing religion on others is not an option. In fact, Islam states “you have your religion and I have mine” as well as “there is no compulsion in religion.”
For these people who copy and paste from viciously anti-Muslim sites and repeat the claim that we are trying to take over the world, can any of you name one Muslim nation that has announced that it wants to take over the world? Can any of you name a Muslim nation that has the resources or capability to actually do it?
The intelligence agencies need to be left alone.This particular cabinet has no experience in Intelligence and needs to leave well alone.Last time I knew giving up identities of operatives in assets was “treason”. Any secretive operations or identities “need to be left alone”. Has anyone looked up the definitions of the word”secret” lately?
Ah, Sam, Sam, Sam. . . the only real question now is whether you are ignorant (unlikely), or whether you just lied to this post.
The passage you just quoted – Koran 2:257 – was abrogated my Mohammad himself in later passages. (That means annulled, deleted). (An observant muslim should know this.)
- Seize them and put them to death wherever you find them (Koran 4:89)-
- Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you (Koran 9:123)-
I could easily continue. Instruction such as this continue thru 73:20.
(Actually there are 109 war verses.)
As for your lying to this post. Conveniently, the Koran permits muslims to lie to infidels, but it FORBIDS muslims to make peace treaties (except for the purposes of rearming).
Back to my original point, and the point of the above story. I am in favor of infiltrating mosques in order to find out which ones are being radicalized, in order to find out who is radicalizing them, etc.
One final note: Quoting the Koran in order to reveal its contents is no more anti-muslim, than quoting my college physics text is anti-science.
There are at least six or seven English versions of the Koran available.
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming . . .
Quran:8:39
John Q–Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -”Israel must be wiped off the map”—–That is not his words, and people forget when translated, words change meaning. Your words are twisted from the mans meaning.—–Secret Government is how all the wars get a start and we end up poor and the rich just keep having their good life from one generation to the next, on our blood sweat and tears. It is up to us to change that.BV
park stevens–Great post and you got the facts right! BV
Hmmm… all sounds interesting and provocative.Everybody knows that if you want a secret kept, dont tell it. Just like weapons, the best ones being used havent been heard of yet. Ever heard of dis-information? I say, relax and let the professionals do what they do so well. If one “secret” project gets leaked out, you can bet there is another one waiting in the wings to take its place.
CTR
“Quoting the Koran in order to reveal its contents is no more anti-muslim, than quoting my college physics text is anti-science.”
I agree, but quoting the Quran to “prove” your preconceived bigotry without understanding historical context is anti-Muslim. Of course these may not be accurate quotes and you have refused to reveal your source.
Briefly, the Quran was revealed over a period of 26 years and some passages refer to actions that were to be taken during certain periods of time. Wars were as common then as they are now all over the world. I am not an expert and I am hardly religious, but I guarantee that I know more than you and I defend Islam because it is no worse than any other religion. If you think you understand a 1400 year old religion that has 1.2 billion followers because you cut-and-paste from some hate site you frequent then you are sadly mistaken.
If I show you a quote from the Talmud regarding the permissibility of lying to the gentiles will you proclaim your hatred of Jews as well? Will you be in favor of infiltrating synagogues in order to prevent the hatred of Arabs and Muslims some of them teach? I doubt it.
Amazing how people ignore rational thought in favor of bigotry.
I always find these Islam is bad arguments humorous since both the Bible and Koran have certain passages that are not always in line with the greater tenants of the faith.
Islam unfortunately, tends to come out looking worse than Christianity, because of the poverty, lack of education, and oppressive governments of the countries where it is practiced. Look back at the long history of how Christianity was often practiced, and it isn
John Q.–Sorry, I see an opinion,not a threat, a threat is like when Isreal said they were going to bomb Iran! Big difference.
When are we going to RE-ACQUAINT the American public to the idea that National Security requires secret ideas, programs and operations?
Entirely too many civilians/politicians involve themselves in operations that they are not qualified to comment on or attempt to influence.
Some citizens/politicians apparently FAIL to realize that there are certain elements in the world that have made it their life’s mission to destroy Democracy which, by the way includes Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. For the un-informed, ascertaining the legitimacy of any threat from any potential enemy requires considerably more study than a call to the local Better Business Burea. If, by chance or design, you are BURDENED with the highest responibility of being briefed about this nations secret operations, at the VERY LEAST, keep your mouth shut. Should you find yourself unable to handle that SAFETY respomsibility, RESIGN immediately. Your families safety and welfare should be considerably more important than your POLITICAL CAREER or your seven figure salary. If the well-used word UNCONCIONABLE sounds better to you than HONOR, RESIGN immediately. Fortunately, there are many in the U.S. who consider it an HONOR to protect the defenseless and take pride in that endeavor. If you feel it is your right/option to divulge U.S. secrets, I strongly urge you to volunteer to be the “town cryer”. This way, you will have the ultimate authority to determine whether its smart to allow your enemies to be aware of just HOW you protect your elementary schools, high schools, colleges, hospitals and your way of life. One more thing, go ahead and exercise your right to free speech, many have died to insure that and many more will stand-up and protect you from yourself. Unfortunately and sadly, you may do more damage than your concience can handle.
@Drake1
“I always find these Islam is bad arguments humorous since both the Bible and Koran have certain passages that are not always in line with the greater tenants of the faith.”
Really? Can YOU provide an example of the Bible contradicting itself? Because I sure can’t, and I’ve studied its texts for years, inside and outside “christian” circles, as well as the Quran, and some of the Judaist Talmud. Inconsistency within groups of a religion, all major ones included, is not a reason to discount or degrade that religion, but simply a call to realize that no matter what standards are set for perfection, no man can reach them.
As for the whole secret squirrel thing, I got one word. Nighthawk. Every was looking for the new fighter, and when they asked test pilots if they flew the F-19, they could honestly say no.
re Bible contradictions, try http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html for a comprehensive list.
It’s hardly surprising; the bible is a compendium of various works that have been through multiple rewrites and translations over hundreds of years (possibly thousands).
Any religious text quoted out of context can be manipulated for political effect.
Islam also comes out looking bad due to the extreme number of deaths due to suicide bombers, the oppression of its female members, the utter lack of modern progress in a lot of muslim countries, the fact that most of the world’s hot spots are due to muslim extremism or fanatism. Whats to fear from a bunch of fun luvin Mcmuslims?
I wonder if any of the islam apologist here know what happens to christians in most islamic countries? They are openly discriminated against, actively targeted for violence at the behest of the mullahs with complicent police. In Saudi the religious police are allowed to arrest you if you violate a tenet of islam (whatever fad they are following that day of course). Sam and Drake1 are either extremely naive or muslim? Which is it?
@ deansotx
“Sam and Drake1 are either extremely naive or muslim? Which is it?”
Or possibly, and probably more likely, they don’t see eye to eye with you. The World is not separated into Christians and Muslims and idiots. It’s separated into Muslims and Infidels, obviously.
BTW, Nik, I checked out that website. Not once did I see anything that couldn’t be explained as either misunderstanding the text, misunderstanding the religion as a whole, or the random “lost in translation” example that makes complete sense if you could read hebrew or greek.
The secret was the CIA was trying to win the war.
Naturally this winning of the war by America was sure to piss off the democrats.
Geez Galloglas and deansotx, please place a warning at the top of your messages, “Do Not Drink Soda While Reading – May Be Hazardous To Your Nose”
Really good stuff!!
I believe that “muslim” and “islam” should be placed in the same categories as “racism” “radicalism” “nazism” and all the other “isms” that we’ve eradicated. were it not for oil, they’d still be roaming the desert, humping camels and baying at the full moon.
I am sure that if the DEMS can realize political gain even to the detriment of the country they will do so! There is no secret that these fools will not give up for the sake of power!
I only feel increasing revulsion for those ruling idiots who have lost sight of there reason for being in office….to do what is best for the country and not themselves!
You have to keep secrets from Congress! No one knows who they work for on any given day. They are a total sell outs of American interest. They should be phased out as unnecessary. We simply cannot continue to believe these people are good for us!
John Q-
Excellent points all!
Now that we’ve declared war on Islam- its time to take it to the next level.
DESTROY CHRISTIANITY!!
For hundreds of years, the vile christians have persecuted and hunted infidels, and they have even invaded the Americas and Africa, torturing without oversight until their victims converted, then killing them regardless. Only those that didn’t hold true to their beliefs and converted immediately could possibly be spared. Let’s kill them all!!!
I thought about it and decided that not all may be able to tell my last post was sarcasm, but can you see my point?
As for John Q’s statement about ‘social’ muslims that are living in peace and just going about their business not bothering anyone else- what an excellent idea of John’s- let’s show these people how wrong they are and how right the fanatics are- that until the world is populated solely with muslims they will never know peace. That is how to do it, right?
Here’s a thought- drop the ‘kill’em all and let God sort’em out’ attitude because it gets you no where. Ideally, here’s the best thing for the world- take the Islamic fanatics, take the Christian fanatics (like JohnQ) and dump them all on a rocket ship headed for the sun. This way, they will all know who was really right at the same time, and the rest of us can live in peace
John Q,
Were you dropped on you head when you were a child or does talking silly come natural to you. You are know better then the Liberal/Progressives who interned the American Japanese during WWII.
There are million of Muslims who are as discussed with the fanatics the same as we are, but they cannot voice an opinion for fear of getting killed.
We need to ecourage moderates to work together to bring down the fanatics, we did to the Nazi’s and we can do it to religious fanatcis as well.
Please be realistic in you comments, I am under no illusion that the radical fundimentalists are a real and present danger to America.
I wonder if any of the islam apologist here know what happens to christians in most islamic countries? They are openly discriminated against, actively targeted for violence at the behest of the mullahs with complicent police. In Saudi the religious police are allowed to arrest you if you violate a tenet of islam (whatever fad they are following that day of course). Sam and Drake1 are either extremely naive or muslim? Which is it?
Posted by: deansotx at July 13, 2009 09:18 AM
====================================================
Historically discrimination has gone both ways between Muslims and Christians. If you take the convenient short term view you end up with the convenient argument that Muslims are intolerant and Christians are. Look at it from a historical view and you will see that discrimination and intolerance has gone both ways.
A religious conversation by assorted nutjobs on a DEFENSE site: I have now seen it all. Religion has always caused terrible violence and repression. When you take people’s ability to think freely and make them conform to any ideology, that’s what happens. It’s so ingrained in our culture that it’s too late. It’s sad, if we had just gotten rid of the damn thing earlier this wouldn’t be happening. And you know what? when you tell them the things they do, they are PROUD! “Uh, your religion spawned God Hates Fags.” “Yeah, I know. What’s your point?” “Uh…. They protest at funerals. They are in league with the kind of people that performed an ‘exorcism’ on a gay teenager and caused him tremendous pain and stress.” “**** yeah! They should kill everyone of those damn homos because (based on no logic whatsoever) if they get married, they are going to infringe on my rights!” “How?” “Uh….. they’re weird! And cause god says so!”
Interesting column. To set the record straight the Program is sub-operational. Considering, [we] have been trying to survive nuclear fallout, blowback, cyber-##!!, left for dead, and so on. Eria it is more than NSA. (They are loose change in the big picture). 2 aholes involved in killing people (CONUS) pcohen@harris.com & leslie.kramer@lmco.com. Notice from their last name the religion. Have a nice day.