Ok…so let me get this straight.
Leon Panetta cancelled a secret CIA program to kill or capture Al Qaeda operatives at close range — meaning using hit teams to do the dirty work instead of Predator drones. The Bush administration makes a presidential finding calling for the assassination or capture of AQ operatives known to Congress, but then conceals the program (which never really got off the ground) from regular briefings since then.
A secret intelligence program canceled by CIA Director Leon Panetta in June was meant to find and then capture or kill al-Qaida leaders at close range rather than target them with air strikes that risked civilian casualties, government officials with knowledge of the operation said Monday.
And why are we all freaked out about this? Doesn’t this seem logical in the extreme?
In fact, didn’t we execute a couple of those missions of the capture variety with Ramzi Binalshibh and KSM in Pakistan? Sounds like it worked just fine to me.
Panetta canceled the effort on June 23 after learning of its existence, its failure to yield results, and the fact that Congress had been unaware of the program since its inception in 2001, according to one official with direct knowledge of the plan.
That official said former President George W. Bush authorized killing al-Qaida leaders shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, and that Congress was made aware of that. However, the official said, Panetta also told members of Congress that according to notes that he had been given on the early months of the program, then-Vice President Dick Cheney directed the CIA not to inform Congress of the specifics of the secret program.
A.) Tell me how firing hellfires from Predators is more ethical or legal than sending a team to kill or capture a single person.
B.) Doesn’t this sort of smack of Sandi Berger-esque national security policy? We know from the 9-11 commission report that Berger got cold feet when he had bin Laden in his sights for a proxy raid in Afghanistan because he was afraid of collateral damage and blowback. Now some of the same national security policy minds are back in the driver’s seat so we cancel a program to kill bad guys using CIA assets. Great idea folks.
His private revelation ignited a storm of protests from Democratic members of the House Intelligence Committee, who accused the CIA of lying to Congress. Some are calling for a congressional investigation.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, suggested that the Bush administration broke the law by concealing a CIA counterterrorism program from Congress. Feinstein said the Bush administration’s failure to notify Congress about the 8-year-old counterterrorism program “is a big problem, because the law is very clear.”
According to Feinstein, Panetta told Congress late last month that “he had just learned about the program, described it to us, indicated that he had canceled it and … did tell us that he was told that the vice president had ordered that the program not be briefed to the Congress.”
“We were kept in the dark. That’s something that should never, ever happen again,” said Feinstein.
Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said he agreed with Feinstein that the CIA should keep Congress informed. But Cornyn said the new assertion “looks to me suspiciously like an attempt to provide political cover” to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats. Pelosi has accused the CIA of lying to her in 2002 about its use of waterboarding, or simulated drowning, which many people, including Obama, consider torture.
Once again it’s politics, my friends. And Republicans have to be salivating over this one as news trickles out of a justice department probe into interrogation methods. That’s all this administration needs as it tries to convince us we need Canada-style health care — a debate over whether we should be sending spooks to kill or capture Al Qaeda operatives and squeeze information from them (without a lawyer) when we nab one.
– Christian
Dear Total,
It is you who are asleep at the keyboard. There is maybe one worst administration worst than Jimmy Carter’s and that is FDR’s fiasco. That administration is the original Totalitarian Cabal (TLC) placing Japanese American citizens who lived in California to be placed into internment camps causing them to loose their property, individual rights, and freedom. And do you know who the Governor was at the time the man who went on be become Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
Tell Congress? Those yardbirds can’t keep a secret!! The current speaker and most of those mule brains would call there buddies at the news outlets and pass on the info. Killing our enemies is what war is about. Sniper or bomb send them to Ali and all those virgins!!!CSM Ruley
If House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Leon Panetta, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. and others think so highly of Bin Laden and Al-Qaida. I think they should consider changing your address and party affiliation. Instead of D-( what ever state) or R- (what ever state ) Make it from another country or start serving the people of this country.
“It is you who are asleep at the keyboard”
Mr. Van Winkle–
You might want to take a nap, again. Getting more sleep should help with the foaming at the mouth problem.
All this shows is how the Obama administration continues to clean up the ineptitude of the previous administration.
In 7 years of a presidency, during a time of war, they still couldn’t execute a program! And that’s WITHOUT Congressional oversight or approval! Nice one George.
Funny how republicans criticized Pelosi, funny how the republicans criticized regulating the financial industry, funny how the republicans criticized Clinton about an affair…talk about cleanup after an 8 year republican cabal.
I agree, that this post was originally too political. And now you let the dogs out. Try to keep your political views under wraps, they don’t mix well with my military tech news.
They had to cancel the program because they were going to put the AQ captives in Biden’s secret bunker. Since he released it’s location, they had to cancel it.
Also, this is where Biden gave the green light for Israel to attack Iran, but Obama nixed that too…
This administration is the biggest joke in American history….
Total,
I read the article, where did it say the wrong person was killed? What article are you reading, the Daily Kos, or The Huffington Post?
In fact, the article I read yesterday on Military.com quoted Pinetta (Pin Headda)as saying that he saw nothing illegal about the program.
what secrecy remember WANTED DEAD or Alive. Isn’t it better to kill the enemy leaders than risk thousands of our kids
HEY WEMBLEY,
http://www.military.com/news/article/cia-program-targeted-alqaida-leaders.html
Panetta (Pin Headda)told the committees there was no indication that there was anything illegal or inappropriate about the effort itself, the official said.
I read the stories. All of them. There is no mention of the “wrong person” being killed. In fact every story says the program never got off the ground. Can you provide a link to back up your assertions, or do you only have that tin foil hat?
“I read the article, where did it say the wrong person was killed? What article are you reading, the Daily Kos, or The Huffington Post?”
I didn’t say that, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
“In fact, the article I read yesterday on Military.com quoted Pinetta (Pin Headda)as saying that he saw nothing illegal about the program.”
Miss the point much? The point is not whether the program was illegal but whether the CIA illegally did not report it to Congress.
“For you liberal automatons”
Hey, for you neocon pinheads, all the drone strikes have been properly reported to Congress. Thus the difference between adhering to the law and breaking it.
But it’s okay to break the law if you really really don’t want to obey it, right?
Hey Total,
You are right, I quoted you when I should have quoted WEMBLEY, my bad.
You still fail reading comp, you Obamaton. Go read the story (for the first time or try again).
Gal writer summed it up nicely;
A 1976 order signed by Pres. Ford banned the CIA from carrying out assassinations (avidly pursued by the late Atty Gen Bobby Kennedy in 1961-62-”Operation Mongoose”-a major effort to kill Castro). But that prohibition does not apply to killing enemies in war. I knew a former CIA-Green Beret officer who was part of Operation Phoenix which operated in S Vietnam to capture or kill VC village chiefs in the late 60s. The logistics were far simpler than what the military is dealing with in Pakistan, esp in the Waziristan area. Again, the army honchos were at fault for always requiring elaborate plans and large backup forces for even small scale operations. Go to Borders Books and in the military history section are books written by CIA operators re: Operation Anaconda and the frustrating hunt for Bin Laden and his skyjacking savages.
Dear Total;
Oh come on now, how about doing better than that, there is no doubt in my mind you are a lost cause screaming Liberal/Progressive trying to be an intellectual.
Get a life, you do not know what you talking about when you have to resond in that manner, your are in over your head with these issues. You should give us all a break and take the nap, you might find out after a while you perceptions of the world are way out in left field the TLC team now down in DC.
Parts of the National Security Act of 1947 leave room for interpretation. Furthermore Congress is partyly to blame for what transpried for they practically disavowed themselves of their oversight role after 9/11. This has never been acknowledged by the Congressional branch…most likely becuase they would have to shoulder some of the same blame they are laying at the executive and the CIA’s feet.
Something to keep in mind is that both parties hung the CIA out to dry(hurting morale) when it suited them.
No, the article doesn’t say that Congress was notified of the program. It says that Congress was notified that the U.S. was going to go after Bin Laden. It was *not* informed of the specific program, as required by law.
Try again.
If we have so much high-tech gear, like Predator drones that can kill jagoffs like OBL from dozens of miles away, why is Osama still breathing? Suppose it’s like WWII and the British special forces with Adolf Hitler where we don’t think we should take him out because he will destroy al-Qaida from within faster than we ever could? That’s gotta be it, and they don’t want us to know that because of the contraversy, plus prefer to think that we think their just too d@mn incompetent.
Oh, and Total… never posting a link to material support for your opinions is a sure sign of your opinions having no factual base. Keep up the good work you rumor monger. You are making San-Fran-Gran-Nan proud. You just can’t tell because her face is permanently contorted in that “What did I just sit on?” position. But morons like you make her smile, on the inside, where it counts.
Translated Gutsball:
Gutsball: [Calls IRS]: I made money last year.
IRS: Uh…okay.
Gutsball: [hangs up, doesn't file a tax return]
IRS: [later] Uh, you need to file a tax return with specifics or you’ll be prosecuted.
Gutsball: But I told you I made some money last year!
“Yep, this is just like that IRS story. Except I can point to tax law that requires me to show specifics, what law requires the specifics of this program to be constantly briefed to congress”
Good Lord, man, you’re not familiar with the National Security Act of 1947? And here I thought you had some small idea of what you were talking about, misguided as it was.
“You are very deep. Keep amusing us with your insight”
You’re funny, too. The difference is that, with me, the humor is intentional.
Total,
Stop pretending to be Hunter S Thompson, and make a point any time.
National Security Act of 1947? What about it? What about Executive Order 12333?? What about the Constitution of the United States?!? You see, I can go on like this all day, but it really does not prove anything. You need to be more specific, not just snarky and trite.
Are you capable of making a point Total? Or is one or two sentences the most you can come up with?
And you are not funny. I did not say you were funny. I said your “insight” was amusing.
We are not laughing with you, we are laughing at you.
I think that was the phrase you were looking for, but like I said, you are trite.
Someone has done an excellent job of psyop here, diverting attention to the “it was a program to assassinate bin Lade” meme. If so that could only have been a very minor part of the overall puzzle, because (1) it has been public knowledge since about 12 noon on 9/11 that we have a program to assassinate bin Laden (2) no one in the US would object to any such program, whether he be “lib” congresswomen or radical right superpatriot.
Even setting aside the direct illegality of failing to notify the Congressional Gang of 6, there must have been some other components or goals to this program that made is so instantly objectionable to anyone except Cheney. But the psyops are getting close to diverting any possible attention to that little point.
By the way, does Liz Cheney hold a security clearance? If so, on what need to know? If not, how exactly does she manage to speak so confidently on the teevee about this? Just asking.
Cranky
Someone has done an excellent job of psyop here, diverting attention to the “it was a program to assassinate bin Lade” meme. If so that could only have been a very minor part of the overall puzzle, because (1) it has been public knowledge since about 12 noon on 9/11 that we have a program to assassinate bin Laden (2) no one in the US would object to any such program, whether he be “lib” congresswomen or radical right superpatriot.
Even setting aside the direct illegality of failing to notify the Congressional Gang of 6, there must have been some other components or goals to this program that made is so instantly objectionable to anyone except Cheney. But the psyops are getting close to diverting any possible attention to that little point.
By the way, does Liz Cheney hold a security clearance? If so, on what need to know? If not, how exactly does she manage to speak so confidently on the teevee about this? Just asking.
Cranky
I don’t buy it. Dick Cheney and the CIA don’t hide a plain vanilla program to assassinate bin Laden, which was expressly authorized by Congress in the AUMF in 2001, in what appears to be knowing defiance of intelligence overslight laws.
Maybe, the program violated an express prohibition (like using Peace Corps or news reporter covers for CIA agents). Maybe, the program allows the intentional and not strictly necessary sacrifice of innocent civilians to get the kill, or authorized CIA agents to participate in terrorist acts to get close to the center. Hell if I know. It may never be declassified in my lifetime. But, I simply do not buy the propoosition that all there was to this program was authorization for the CIA to kill bin Laden.
Cranky,
I think she talks liek that because daddy tells her she can… and I don’t really think any one is goign to tell Mr. Chenney he is wrong and get away with it all to well. The guy knows where all the skeletons are… including in the closet and under the house!
As for the CIA not telling congress about its little program. Who here thinks they would have let it go on anyways? I mean honestly, every one is so worried about what other people(countries) and making sure they get their own first that National Security isn’t always the the first thing on the list.
And for the person who decided to equate my first post to a Spartan govt… It is clear you didn’t understand what I was saying. The main point is the people who run this country or most of them have no idea what it is like to have your actions and abilities limited because most of your law makers are spinelsss and have never served in the military to see what it takes to win a war.
Folks, this issue ISN’T about whether you like bin Laden, or whether you trust the average Congressman to keep a secret…
It’s about whether the CIA should obey the law of the land, or whether we should “give up a little freedom, in exchange for a little Security”!
Most of you know what Ben Franklin had to say about that trade, right?
Oh, right, Ben was one of those “Godless Commie Liberal Radicals” that we need to defend the country from… {Le Sigh!}
Which Germany? Eastern half of the current Germany or Western half of the current Germany?
I must say, I’m extremely disappointed in T(ool)otal’s inability to get this thread to a hundred comments, considering the effort he/she/it/they put into it.
Oh.
Nevermind.
Good job T(ool)otal!
Really? That was it? Honestly, isn’t most of the American public in favor of this, across the whole spectrum? Because you’re right, it IS a lot more ethical than Hellfire strikes!!
Whoops, everything I have to say is covered by the first 2 posts in the thread
I find the number of people on this board who keep coming up with excuses for breaking the law.
The cia is required to notify democrats and republicans on the intel committees of the house and senate of any program and any future program. Every member of the military, the cia, the congress, the bush administration, and I would guess quite a few commenter on this board took an oath to uphold the constitution and the laws enacted thereunder.
Why this should be in any way controversial is beyond me. But the fascist element in our country continues to rear its ugly head. Yes, we get it, herr Cheney needed to violate the law for the good of fatherland in the name of national security.
those who would trade freedom for security will get neither.
And why anyone would suggest we should trust cheney, one of the most blatantly dishonest people this country has ever seen, scares me to no end. I fear for my beloved constitution.
We are confused! We are not politicians and we do not participate in this open action. We should leave the politicians to shape their own profile. We stand for our Constitution, and we implement it; taking actions, be deeply loving in our soul, and by doing are duty. We maintain our focus and objectivity in the best interest for our Country, United States.
ed hardy
ed hardy hoody
ed hardy swim trunks