And we’re WORRIED about the Russians?
Russia said Wednesday it plans to buy a new helicopter-carrying assault warship from NATO-member France in an unprecedented deal experts say reflects Kremlin efforts to accelerate military modernization.
The agreement for purchase of one Mistral-class naval ship also equipped with hovercraft and landing craft will be completed by the end of the year, the Russian chief of staff, General Nikolai Makarov, said.
He did not name a price, but the Russian government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta reported this month that the ship, which can carry 16 heavy helicopters, 470 airborne troops and other gear, costs 700 million euros (995 million dollars).
So Ivan wants to build an amphibious capability for what? An invasion of Georgia…OK, good luck with that MedvedevPutin. And your defense manufacturing and shipbuilding infrastructure is so moribund you have to buy from the French!? Ouch, that’s gotta hurt Mr. “Multi-polar World” guy.
But, oh yeah, you want to do “joint” production later — uh, huh…
Makarov also said Russia wanted to forge a deal with France on joint production of more ships.
“We also want to establish production of a series of at least four or five ships of this class,” he said.
Makarov, an influential proponent in Russia of modernizing the country’s conventional armed forces quickly through procurement from Western suppliers, admitted the military needs equipment that Russia cannot produce at present.
“No country in the world can do everything” on its own, he said, adding: “Some things will have to be purchased” from foreign producers.
Hey, I know…We have an F-22 manufacturing line Congress wants to keep open — the Russians are “looking to the West” to modernize — Obama’s reaching out to rebuild strained ties — hmmm.
How ironic would it be to turn the F-22 argument on its head and say it’s needed to supply the very enemy it was designed to fight?
…I guess I need some more coffee.
– Christian
{ 47 comments… read them below or add one }
Why so negative?
Not exactly balanced reporting more like propoganda.
ok, the F-22 comment at the end was just sarcastic and didnt fit with the line of making fun of Russia’s buying a really expensive invasion ship from the french.
as if the French would ever have used it.
The fact that the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is reaching out to Western sources for modern military technology and equipment is not an easily dismissable and laughable matter. Russia has a number of motives to do so. In the case of the purported agreement for the French-made helicopter/amphibious assault warship, it may amount to an “off-the-shelf” technology purchase with reverse engineered enhanced copies coming down the line later. It can also speed up the consolidation and restructuring of the Russian shipbuilding industry which is already under way. Even during the Cold War, although Russia was largely satisfying its civilian shipping needs through its own domestic shipyards, it was still procuring ice-breakers that were built in Finland (and all of the Soviet merchant marine vessels had dual roles during that era). Similarly, I do not need to go into how much dual use technology the U.S.S.R. and its Warsaw Pact allies were procuring from manufacturers in the West. Perhaps, Russia is copying a page from the Chinese playbook when it comes to the procurement of Western military technology, and the French type of vessel being procured provides power projection capabilities that the Russian Navy currently does not possess.
I don’t know how you connect the French selling a ship to the Russians and us selling F-22′s. Thats just silly. I know it was sarcasm, buts its so unrealistic as to be not even worth discussing.
Hmmm, well I just finished watching an article about the Royal Navy in 1937 having to buy all its armour plate for its new battleship building program from Czechoslovakia because it didn’t have the capability to produce its own to the required standard.
I am sure if the Russians had brought the ships from the US you wouldn’t be bitching about their choice, and get over giving the French a hard time for not supporting you going into Iraq, they were right and you were wrong.
Enjoy your coffee :)
What LEP said. Very well put.
DC2
“and get over giving the French a hard time for not supporting you going into Iraq, they were right and you were wrong.”
Judging from the french governments polocies in afghanistan we wouldnt realy have wanted them there.
So far the american strategy from the surge seemed to work. The british strategy was well…crap.
Here’s somthing i find funny. Why do people not think ww2 was bad when we were fighting the Nazi’s but freeing the iraqi’s from there dictator was?
And thats not a dig at the french or brit soldiers they both pull there weight and would do alot more if they were allowed to its there governments i have no respect for.
470 troops isn’t much…but what would be its American counterpart?
Not sure if amphibious invasion should be something to focus on just yet…maybe building out a surface fleet to protect such vessels would be first on the list.
Maybe the Indians can get the French to overhaul the Gorshkov for them too?
Whoops…meant Yorktown….
@charles,
The closest american counterpart would be a wasp class ship. Its double the tonnage and holds much much much more then the French counterpart
Russia is a 3rd world power that wants to play with the big boys again. They think that buying one or 2 western built ships with get them a membership. Don’t think so. The entire Russian military complex should be destroyed and rebuilt. This time with a focus on quality hardware and more importantly quality, professional soldiers and sailors.
I don’t read this website to read infantile raving like this. It makes the author sound like he’s 12. In any event:-
“So Ivan wants to build an amphibious capability for what? An invasion of Georgia…OK, good luck with that MedvedevPutin.”
Uh – what? I think the August War amply demonstrated that Georgia can easily be invaded, actually.
“Russia is a 3rd world power that wants to play with the big boys again. They think that buying one or 2 western built ships with get them a membership. Don’t think so. The entire Russian military complex should be destroyed and rebuilt.”
What utter nonsense. Russia’s military industrial complex is a major world player by any reasonable standard, is perfectly capable of supplying extremely advanced weaponry, and will continue to be for the forseeable future.
This used to be an insightful blog.
It is sad that the Russians are spending their money on ships when they need to be spending it on roads and infrastructure.
It seems nothing has changed in twenty years…
And of course the French are selling them the ship. They have to sell military assets to fools to afford their social programs and stupidity…..
On one hand your attacking Russia’s industrial and technological capability to manufacture new equipment, yet you seem to miss the point that they are still getting a new ship! Meanwhile we have some politicians who are trying to cut our carrier fleets.
Despite your knock on the F-22, we still need more to replace the air-superiority F-15 fleet despite what the anti-Raptor mob has been spewing. We should buy enough to replace all of our F-15A-D Eagles. Or we should at least buy the planned 390 or so, which would replace most of those F-15s.
We shouldn’t be underestimating the Russians while our government continues to hack away at military programs. Who knows what the world will look like in 15 years? What if the PAK-FA and T-95 aren’t all hype?
“And of course the French are selling them the ship. They have to sell military assets to fools to afford their social programs and stupidity….. ”
Yeah, damn those damn French with their objectively superior socialized health care system! In FREEDOMERICA, you have FREEDOM to die in the streets because you can’t afford insurance, or your insurer dumped you the moment you got sick.
(Couldn’t resist)
Yeah, all of you who sit here and waste space telling Christian he’s writing the wrong thing? GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! This is a blog, he’s got the right(at least until Obama petitions to amend the BoR) to write whatever the hell he wants. So what if some stuff isn’t completely unbiased. What is?
“Yeah, all of you who sit here and waste space telling Christian he’s writing the wrong thing? GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! This is a blog, he’s got the right(at least until Obama petitions to amend the BoR) to write whatever the hell he wants. So what if some stuff isn’t completely unbiased. What is?”
I must’ve missed where anyone posting their comments on a blog entry (which is what the comments section is for, you see?) intimated that Christian didn’t have the “right” to do anything.
You may wish to bask in the garden of his turpulence, but others do like to criticise/ offer commentary. If you don’t like it, tough.
Russia is a joke and this waste of money is more proof. Too many goof ball leftovers from the Cold War like Putin calling the shots. They are wasting money on amphib assault ships when they should be rolling it into their real power, oil and gas. They should be spending on the atrocious state of their society.
There are more abortions than births in Russia. Their population given current trends is going to drop by 30% in the next 40 years. There isn’t going to be anyone to be anyone to pay the bills, let alone man this stupid ship or fly any gen 5 fighters. Russia’s day as a world military power is done.
Yet another Eddy-Expert spouting patent nonsense. 30% drop in 40 years, huh? Let’s assume this is true, even though it’s objectively untrue. So in 2049, Russia will have a population of 100 million people instad of 100 million people.
Ok.
ZOMG, nations with only 100 million people have no men for the military, zomg!!!!
Genius, eh?
Of course, the mortality rate in Russia has actually slowed dramatically lately, and the population rate is at statistical stagnation, not decline anymore.
So yeah, you’re wrong.
Your “more abortions than births” rubbish is even worse in its patent stupidity – Russia’s birth rate is comparable to other European countries, its the mortality rate thats the issue.
I think its smart of the russians tp buy french ship as with it they get some of the most modern technology and if the price tag is 700mio its a bargain compared to tiny litoral ship USN is playing with and cost 500-600mio ,they are also putting pressure on their own ship builders. And dont think USA is any different F35 STOVL version has russian deveopled engine nozzle first designed for Yak 141
This thing looks as though the primary design criteria was for it to tip over.
It looks like an overgrown moldy cork designed by someone who thinks it will spend its life in a small lake away from the wind and waves.
What do they plan on carrying for ballast, a few cubic acres of depleted uranium?
We have nothing to fear of from the Russians. I am afraid more of our internal issues.
And all of you that believe Russia was the aggressor are wrong. Those bloody georgians took what they deserved.
The Russians lost practically all their shipbuilding capacity with the exception of the submarines. There are several causes not the least of which were location of that capacity and financing priorities of the past 20 years.
Any such capacity can be gained relatively fast in historical terms. The Russia is a very dangerous country for a whole variety of reasons all rooted in the history of authocracy and agression that reached its maximum under the commies.
They may be down now but they are not out, not by a long shot, especially with all the hydrocarbons they possess. Someone needs to take them out.
Nothing wrong with buying foreign some of the time. In Russia’s case they can take delivery sooner rather than later if they had to build one themselves. They are already buying UAVs from Israel. I like their new Corvette over our LCS, maybe we should buy the design from them. Suprisingly I’m not in a anti-Russia mode today.
Given Russia’s penchant for using military assets in law enforcement roles, it seems to me this is a good purchase to control the immense coastline (and hence littoral zone) of Russia’s Far East. It is a region they have struggled to control for nearly two hundred years haven’t they? Just about every effort to control that region by land based infrastructure has fallen short of goals, so maybe someone in the Kremlin watched a couple episodes of “The Deadliest Catch” and got the clue that they should work on expanding their maritime culture in the region by also expanding their maritime muscle.
Doz I would much rather see a major military modernization, everything from new aircraft and tanks to ships, than a botched healthcare plan draining all of our tax dollars that will pay for abortions and sex changes.
Did some checking, and STemplar point about Russia’s dropping population and general aging of their population curve is supported. The population decrease by 2050 would be 22%, a little less than 30, but still not very good. And the birth rate is much lower than any other European nation. There is info that this rate has slowed tremendously in the last year, but that info comes from a Russian research group, so I’m not sure how reliable it is.
Hey Christian, I thought the story was funny. Thanks for telling everyone to lighten up. And yeah…some of these comments were REALLY funny…
”And on a technical note, the MISTRAL-class ships evolved from a civilian container ship hull….not much innovation there, aside from cost-savings.”
And LCS is deirived from a fast ferry. But at the moment civiliam ship building and technology is years ahead of militaries in design construction and propulsion technology.
Speaking of cratering, see this blog.
“We also want to establish production of a series of at least four or five ships of this class,” (Makarov) said.
Ah, that is interesting.
Why do they want a MISTRAL-class ship, specifically? Doesn’t Russia have engineers who can design such a ship on their own? Will a new shipyard be established in Russia to build them….with French assistance/investment? Will the Russian-built MISTRALs have any French components? Much of the European defence industry is now multinational, so will granting them industrial offests lead to restrictions and veto power over end product uses, such as is normally the case?
Or….do the Russians have no choice? Have their large-scale manufacturing abilities atrophied? The Vikramaditya fiasco might point to this conclusion….
Doz, do you have a car?
Do you have insurance for it?
Did the federal goverment have to pay for that insurance?
No? I didn’t think so.
Why should healthcare insurance be any different.
Good Evening Valcan.
I would doubt that the Russian are interested in reverse engineering this French ship. The Russians have the design and engineering capacity to design any kind of ship especially serviceable cheap surface combatants they chose, what the don’t have is the ship building infrastructure to build surface ships anymore. The recently announced 10 year procurement plan for the Russian Federation Navy calls for no surface ships before 2020 and only two Nerpa Class (Akula II) attack submarines and to start the 4-6 boat Borey Class SSBN’s.
The Russian’s are building two Frigates for China but the project is on hold pending renegotiation the terms and price of the deal and finishing a contract with India for two Akula’s for $2 billion.
A ship of the imitations of this French helicopter assault I would assume would be used for securing Russia’s borders in the Black Sea and for more law enforcement functions that war. The price is diet cheap but with the quality of recent large French combat ships, it’s buyer be ware.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
It’s unfair to accuse Christian of being demented he’s just writing for the core readership of this blog – the trailer trash who only know that the french invented fries, think the Osprey is cool because they don’t understand big numbers like a $12 billion loss and desperately want to discuss guns so they can feel some sort of power in their lives, largely over squirrels.
“Why should healthcare insurance be any different.”
Are your parents or grandparents on Medicare?
Did the federal government (aka taxpayers) have to pay for that?
Yes.
Why should people under 65 be any different.
Or are you one of those poor unfortunates that aren’t aware that Medicare is a government run, single payer health care system, and, just like every OTHER such system in the entire Western world, is far more efficient than your joke of a health care system.
I mean for $%^&’s sake, you’re 29th in the world for infant mortalitiy. You spend more per capita on health care than any other country, and get inferior outcomes.
Your health care system sucks and you’re the laughing stock of the world for it.
Why should you pay? Apart from it being the most ethical (unless your ethics are “rich people deserve health care more than poor people”), more cost effective, and leading to better outcomes for everyone? You ALREADY pay. Through the nose.
gentlemen:let’s discuses technology in defense
Russia has the world’s most advanced surface to air missile systems … which they have sold to Iran…. Just throwing that out there
deusvolt, to me recent Russian history points to them still being in confrontational mode against NATO, not desiring of closer relations. The only constant in Russian politics I see is Paranoia. If they want to be closer to Europe, it is probably so that they have more Control over them (like hooking them on Russian natural gas exports).
I agree with Byron that the Russians want the MISTRALs for mid- to low-intensity warfare. And they probaly are doing this deal because they want them QUICKLY.
Good luck with the muslim problem, deusvolt.
Medicare is efficient Doz? What sort of reality do you live in. I am sick and tired of fools like yourself who want to cut military programs in order to fund things like this botched health care plan. If this is supposed to cost us less tax dollars in the, we have yet to be shown any evidence of that.
I would rather have USAF getting a total of 850 F-22s, 1600 F-35s, and 240 FB-23s for a fraction of the cost of this trillion dollar plan. I would rather have the Army get a new series of armored vehicles to replace the Bradley, Paladin, and existing designs. I would rather have the Navy get the ships and aircraft they need. I would rather have some more money go into the space program than this Obamacare.
Here is an idea. Get our moronic politicians to show us a health-care plan that DOES NOT suck and quit whining about us “evil” conservatives.
Peace through strength!
Why do they want a MISTRAL-class ship, specifically?–
because of the type of the hull and place management. at moment mistral is one of the leaders in this class worldwide.
ReconTeam:-
“Medicare is efficient Doz? What sort of reality do you live in”
Yes, Medicare is objectively more efficient than your privately-run health care system. This is not a controversial fact.
“I am sick and tired of fools like yourself who want to cut military programs”
This has nothing to do with cutting military programs whatsoever. That’s your invention.
Eh guys guys BIG PICTURE, if demographics are the key, one word CHINA, Harro my wed white and brue fwend!
“Russia charges eight with Arctic Sea hijacking,”
http://tinyurl.com/n67ezn is a Rueters article about the recent hijacking of a freighter under Maltese registry and crewed by Russian nationals from the Arctic Sea to the seas around Cape Verde.
It seems as though the Russian Navy has a definite need to be able to protect its own shipping and to take part in global anti-piracy initiatives; this ship might have, equipped with suitably trained operators, hovercraft and helicopters, been able to intercept and board this craft.
Not that I’m a big fan of the present Russian government; they arm terrorist nations like Iran and run political interference for them: their feigned outrage over our planned antimissile base in the Czech Republic is probably more customer service for their good customers in Iran, since ten or twenty non-nuclear interceptors are a joke against the Russian nuclear arsenal.
But even Russia has legitimate police functions to perform, and they apparently choose to use their Navy to perform them, instead of a Coast Guard. That’s legitimate, until Russia chooses to use their Navy as they have their army, as a blunt weapon to wreak outrages on their neighbors.
305 years Marines Russia [url] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4FdUPz4iYc [url]