When’s the last time you emplaced a claymore mine? When’s the last time you’ve even seen one?
I’m sure I’ll get a few of the ‘you’re an idiot’ comments, but in several trips to Afghanistan and Iraq — as well as multiple trips to the field for training with a variety of Marine and Army units — I have never once seen or heard of claymores being used or trained for employment. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, it’s just that I’ve had a pretty good pass over a lot of the modern military and never once did I run into any (figuratively, of course)…
And that’s a shame, because what a great piece of gear…
Well, more from the Wanat history — seems the institutional Army needs to take a closer look at claymore training and employment.
American soldiers require additional and enhanced training in tactical employment of claymore mines. Claymore mines were integral to controlling and denying the dead ground around OP Topside, and were not optimally employed to accomplish this task. Claymore mines were not employed at COP Kahler, although they could have proven to be extremely efficient at controlling the dead ground in the ravine to the west and north of the COPs perimeter…
However, the limited numbers and failure to have overlapping Claymore fields of fire is evidence that Claymores were not employed to their maximum effectiveness at OP Topside.
Claymore mines should always be employed in depth, with the rear Claymores employed and recovered after darkness, all firing wires buried, and all Claymores should have their rear highlighted with visible markings (chemical lights, reflective tape, IR glitter tape, white paint, etc.) so that any enemy disturbing or tampering with Claymores can be readily detected, and deterred by the employment of covering Claymores or other suppressive fire. The effective use of Claymore mines needs to be emphasized, and additional numbers of Claymore mines should be deployed for the defense of static positions. Doctrine and TTPs for Claymore mine employment need to be enhanced and strengthened. This recommendation should be addressed by the U.S. Army Center for Lessons Learned and by TRADOC service schools, particularly the Infantry School.
Now, I did take a look at a copy of the Small Unit Operations in Afghanistan handbook recently compiled by the Center for Army Lessons Learned in Leavenworth. It mentions the use of “mines” and claymores in the defense of COPs, JCCs and OPs but doesn’t go into very much detail at all.
Like the water purification callout, maybe it’s time for more training and better technology with the claymore…
– Christian
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you’re an idiot
Seems army never realy learns should ask some Vietnam vets how to use them as their use in vietnam was extensive and effective and put to test by sieges that dwarf this one in scale.
I read the report and it stikes me how litle control over situation Us forces had, recovering only 1 body at the base and some clothes after a massive firefight ‚that only shows that the insurgents were in control from start to finsh. And WTF is this QRF driving up and fighting out of their trucks ‚you would expect an sizable airmobile QRF that would close of exits and start search and destroy ‚another tactic what worked well in vietnam or in any other counterinsurgency as a mater of fact
A consequence of having a tiny army. Considering South Vietnam was host to half a million troops in the late ‘60s…and I think the modern army is about that size to begin with.
This actually is a good Question that should be asked..
How bout other security items:
Simple Concentina wire, or Comm wire strung with cans with rocks in them to creat tangle-foot, Grenades rigged to secure dead-zone paths if Claymores were not available using comm wire and empty cans (yes, I know the Meal Rejected by Ethiopians replaced the old fashed C-Rations, and probably there is no Comm wire to be had because of the WiFi Communications systems in place now..but what the heck, tell me there wasn’t a single junk pile anywhere near this place, or a Hard Charging NCO couldn’t aquire the needed gear just to protect his troops and himself? What the hell has happened to the Improvise Adapt and Overcome mentality that the Grunts were always known for?
And Claymores, like other basic Security defensive measures..should be taught to EVERYBODY, not just the Infantry guys.
Great article. I think its another instance of the restrictive Rules of Engagement rearing its ugly head. Setting up ouposts in positions that a CubScout would know is vulnerable, denial of supporting fires and not using claymores is a symptom of a failed philosophy.
Question. Conventional forces are now leading and training foreign fighters. Conventional forces are leading host countries in the internal defense mission. Are special forces just shooters now???? Even the recon mission is being taken up by the conventional forces. What gives?????
See the problem is the name. claymore MINE.
I mean people die from those all the time billions last i heard i mean we leave em everywhere those claymores.
Just a thought maybe basic has become WAY to short.
Maybe they should consult the Combat Engineers that often help them build their FOB in the emplacement of claymores and defensive works.
The resources are there but often the leadership is not aware of them.
Earlier someone wrote about effective defensive systems not being at the camp
And was criticized about not knowing about mountains.
The poor soul that did so obviously didn’t know what he was talking about.
Land mines, and claymores in particular, of which I have shot off dozens, can be very effective.
Yet these poorly led soldiers don’t seem to have used them, and if they did, they weren’t used very effectively.
This mess was caused by poor leadership!
For Christ’s sake, you are in a camp that is surounded by who knows who and you don’t have a mine field on the perimiter?
It is called defense 101.
There should have been so many mines in the ground that a gnat would have set one off.
Yet the US Army didn’t think of it?
Pathetic.
I can’t believe those guys didn’t have claymores.
I thought every front line combat unit would have them, especially if they are making a semi or permanent outpost.
I’m shocked.
That was basic when I was in the Army.
I’ve read the Col. Ostlund paper http://tinyurl.com/yhyltap but I can’t find the full Army’s Combat Studies Institute report. I’ve seen some excerpts like:
“A single platoon in the open field near the bazaar lacked the capability of holding Wanat,“
This might come up in some of the more senior evaluations.
Come on Christian, don’t you know that American mines only target starving children and innocent animals?
I heard they’re going to deploy a new politically correct mine that showers the target with hugs and kisses. Maybe then they’ll love us.
Christian,
The last two posts have been great. I’d say ‘refreshing’ in fact. Too bad the comments get clogged up with the incorrigible ‘tangentials’.
When I first heard about this incident, the way it was presented it sounded like a fire discipline problem, now I’m thinking there were probably a series of breakdowns of which fire discipline was one. Still haven’t seen or heard anything to make me suspect the quality of any hardware, though.
Fortunately, I think we can be pretty sure that whatever went wrong, the Army will correct it. Unfortunately,it will probably happen at the lowest level possible, and unseen by us on the outside. –So we will still get to hear the chattering class rant on about conspiracies, incomeptence, gold-plating elsewhere at the expense of the grunt,ecetera, ecetera, blah, blah, blah.
~Sigh~
Carry on
Yikes! One should never fat-finger and misspell
Good Evening Christian,
Lets see the last time I put out a Claymore, I would say was on November 30th, 1966 near An Loc, South Vietnam near the Cambodian border, since in our unit the guy that put out the Claymores also retrieve the Claymore the next morning, very careful, it may have been bobby trapped by Mr. Charles in the night, very nasty, or it may have been had been turned around and bobby trapped, this was frequent. This task was usually done by the senior members of the dismounted rifle squad who didn’t draw night ambush that night. It was done just after sunset.
Yes Christian, I received training in the Claymore in AIT in 1965 at Ft. Dix. It was part of regular Infantry training. Really it’s rather simple, take out the mine: plant it…aim it…camouflage it…record in your notebook, don’t rely on memory where you put it (very important)…insert and screw in the blasting cap into the body of the Claymore…run the cord to the NDF and hand the detonator (unattached to the cord) to the guy who was going to spend the night in the “fighting hole”. That’s about all there is to it. Now all you Diet-Pepsi, never don it Commandos know how to plant a Claymore.
When was the last time I saw one, well does I’m holding a practice Claymore in my had as I type this count. It’s the current model M-33, in Vietnam we used the M-18 Claymore. The front reads “Front… Towards Enemy”, the back reads Practice…Back…M-33 APERS Mine”. It has two fold out spreadable legs on its base. It looks exactly like the one in the picture the Soldiers is aiming.
The practice Claymore was a gift from a Marine Officer that I see at lunch when he’s not deployed sometimes, for my birthday last year, it was in appreciation of the good things I’ve said on DT about the Marines.
So Christian what’s the point of this little exercise. to show that only a few of us have ever laced up a pair of combat boots and the rest are mostly blowing smoke out their sixes?
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Thank you for your service to this country!
From a former SSgt, 379th Bomb Wing (Heavy)
Strategic Air Command
USAF 1968–1972
You covered most of it, but you forgot to tell about “Making your own ” Field expedient anti handling device out of on Old Flashlight battery ! I know you know how to do this, but it’s been awhile ! Take Care !
In Vietnam you could stop Charlie from turning them around if you put a hand grenade under one of the feet, hide it real nice like, and pull the pin. Gives Charlie a nice surprise. Worked on at least a couple of occasions.
To the obvious commentator:
You wrote: “you’re an idiot“
Now you’re talking! Good boy!!!
Teach Christian and all those other not
“So Christian what’s the point of this little exercise. to show that only a few of us have ever laced up a pair of combat boots and the rest are mostly blowing smoke out their sixes?“
No, i think he was talkin about more how we never use them anymore. Not about who was in and who was not.
Mines = Liberal media shitstorm about evil monsterous cowboy Americans.
(not a good idea)
I cannot comment on how Infantry are trained in the utilization of the claymore mine but I can say how intensive my training on the weapon is. Our training day consisted of training numerous weapon systems that day to include the M249, the M203, the AT-4, and yes the claymore mine. We may have worked on the training of this weapon for at most 2 hours. Much of it relied more on us running out to deploy the mine, aim it, attach the wiring and run the wire back to the clacker. That is all we did for training on it.
We were not taught how to employ them otherwise. Even during the FTX known as Victory Forge for us, We utilized foxholes and hasty fighting positions but we did not have to employ concertina or any other type of passive or active defense techniques.
I have been there, and have set up claymores. Some in the chain of command did not think that they were necessary, but I talked to Vietnam vets who swore by them, so I carried three in my three day bag. My oldtime supply SGT had to run around and do drug deals to get them. “Mine” is not PC. The ANA loved them so much when we popped one they learned how to say “claymore” after “RPG”.
Claymore Mines are the best when the bad guy absolutely must be stopped.
Me thinks that the United States Military needs more thought and training on how to fight a defensive battle inside bases. We cannot go on thinking of fighting 300 yard battles, air or rely on Artillery.
We will have a enemy who is motivated, determined and just might be able to make it all the way into the base and infect the place.
I hope that this Claymore weapon continues to enjoy good use. Lord knows today’s children playing shootem up video games use it all the time to quite good effect.
Christian,
I guess I’m tooting my own horn, but I posted about this on DOD Buzz yesterday on this exact thing before this article came up. I mentioned the Claymore and even suggested if collateral damage was a concern, why isn’t the Rapid Equipping Force office in the Army rushing some Textron “Spider” mines which can ALSO fire non-lethal fires if there is fear of collateral damage.
See here for the post by my name:http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/10/13/small-arms-jammed-at-wanat/#idc-container
Back on topic as a former 11M, we were instructed in the use of the Claymore to emplace them near our fighting position. And as Byron mentioned, we needed to map out their position along with any dead zones where we couldn’t directly see where the enemy was. Those were sites that needed to be pre-registered for mortar fire. I wonder with all the new apparent issues we’re finding out in terms of bad defensive layout, if we will ALSO find out that the dead zones weren’t covered by plunging fire by the unit’s organic HMG’s?
And also needed for debate is the inquiry on why these remote outposts don’t have organic BLANKET overwatch by drones on potential routes of ingress by insurgents? Folks can go on and on about Taliban dressed as women which they’ve done, but if you see a large group seeming to swarm your position from various routes, something would tell your sensor operator of a drone that SOMETHING IS AMISS?!
The idea of RCO if they are to be embedded to protect the population is fine, however those posts need heavy organic firepower, blanket surveillance and strong unit leadership with the essentials of defensive ops emphasized. That outpost would be the fire base and there should still be a detachment that can and should act as a maneuver unit to put some pressure on the enemy offensively.
I trained on claymores in Infantry OSUT in 1988 and fired them off from time to time during live fire excercises.
We couldn’t get claymores or hand grenades when my unit was in Afghanistan in ’06-’07. It’s not that higher didn’t have them. It’s that higher didn’t want to give them to us. They were “unnecessary additions that somebody might loose or have an accident.“
This attitude comes from having higher (Battalion and Brigade Commanders and their staffs) living in their TOCs on highly secured bases, and not going out and living with or at least visiting the troops on site. Our Battalion Commander did two trips forward, and no more once he got in the firefight that got him his CIB.
Did the guys at either base have AT4s or M72s?
Screw mamsy-pamsy mines. Give our troops airburst VX mortars, lets see how melting the face off some insurgents has on them screwing with our troops ever again. :]
Good comment CJ.
I’m also whissing for mo honesty in our warfare and the use of chemicals against troops that could never accuire protection is the best choise ofcourse!
CJ, while I would have no problem using VX or other chemical weapons to destroy the insurgents, I am concerned about deploying it so close to own own forces. I am not certain how extensive our chemical weapons training has been since the end of the Cold War. Do they still do NBC suit drills and everything?
when i was a young buck, the old heads from the ‘Nam days would tell stories about hiding 55 gallon drums of fuel and taping a claymore or 2 to it, and when the NVA, VC made thier move, they would get ROASTED. watever happened to American ingenuity? Oooh, that would f you up..
AT-4’s? Damn why not more Carl Gustav’s? I know there are only so many to go around, but can you imagine wat a couple cannister rounds would have done to onrushing talibs? bet ya they woulda stopped pretty quick. a good operator can get off 6 rounds a minute..again, those guys were hung out to dry.
Christian,
Ask your sources if the Ottawa Treaty (Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction) has affected the training of US Army troops and specifically the training in the use of claymore mines in the unattended boobie trap/trip wire modes.
The answers may surprise you
when i was in the service we trained with claymores allot in all methods to kill the enemy also bouncing betty’s in all methods plus allot of other devices found on the battle field to use against the enemy, but then again that was a long time ago, they should bring them back please!!!!!
I agree with your post but want to let you know that I was in the same brigade as those at Wanat. I spent a good amount of time manning an OP on top of a mountain and we did use claymores as part of our defensive perimeter security. They do get used but not as much as they should.
It’s hard to believe that Claymores are not used to their max potential. Nothing like having three or four Claymores out in front of you when the bad guys are coming to get you.
As a Natl Guard Sniper Tm Ldr during OIF2 (2004), somehow we got a box of 10 Claymores per sniper team. I know– strange… But true.
We really had little restrictions on use also, which made for a far better nights rest when a hide sight has an explosive defense in depth– (even into the house they were placed)
Situation LP/OP, 1 Marine fire teammountain top 5 claymores,
Enemy 12 to 15 night attack.
Effects as enemy began attack from 15 meters, FT leader detonated 3 of 5 mines, vollied 1 frag each, 2 more claymores, 1 additonal frag vollie
After Action a quiet night due to listining at hunting camp to father and 2 uncles
vets from Vietnam, F=Marine, 1 uncle 101 AB, 1 101 AB ranger Co.
Summery is that you should always listen to the profesonals that did it for a career B/C when you are a 22 year old Marine CPL. on an LP/OP and you remember the time they talked for friggeng hours before you left for yet another combat deployment and you are now alive because the knowledge was passed on. So men what will you talk about when your sons and now daughters might go to war it’s too little too late for the years of hunting camp stories that translate to a live son, but its never too late to pass on the knowledge. Thanks DAD, Doug, Ron… now lets go hunting with my son.