Comments on: No Issues with M4 at Wanat

By: M855

M855 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:25:38 +0000

Skinner got owned. ALLOFFS!
“CONSTRUCTION — The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out
of one or more of the listed metals, or be a full jacketed type bullet
with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its weight. Thus SS109/M855
.223 (5.56mm) bullets would not be covered, because their core is only partly
steel, and partly lead. Lead is not a listed metal, and bullets with
cores made partly out of lead are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that
SS109/M855 bullets are not covered.
”

By: Mat

Mat — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:29:54 +0000

Numbers are not Vietnam based they are current US small arms ammo usage stats. Yes and calculating insurgent casualties by air launched munitions or artillery the numbers go up and the numbers are worse than Vietnam as the war is not so ‘target rich’.But as said actual stats per soldier in combat is cca 2210 rounds per ‘bad guy’.

By: Sepp

Sepp — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:41:04 +0000

“CONSTRUCTION — The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out
of one or more of the listed metals, or be a full jacketed type bullet
with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its weight. Thus SS109/M855
.223 (5.56mm) bullets would not be covered, because their core is only partly
steel, and partly lead. Lead is not a listed metal, and bullets with
cores made partly out of lead are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that
SS109/M855 bullets are not covered.
”

By: Charles

Charles — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:03:46 +0000

Mat is pulling old Vietnam era numbers down to a T. I don’t know if they’ve changed in modern conflict or not.

By: freefallingbomb

freefallingbomb — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:22:53 +0000

To the poster “Mat” :
You wrote: “Off course 250k rounds per insurgent in for whole Us forces usage,but real combat use tally is still only something like 2210 rounds per insurgent fired by rifleman in combat and only 1.3rounds per insurgent for snipers.“
NO NEED to get so modest after you were so terribly right about something! Alas, you’re even MORE RIGHT than you possibly imagine, I just wasn’t immediately aware of it: In modern wars, only a SMALL FRACTION of all soldiers gets killed by other soldiers! The biggest killer on the battlefield is still the Artillery, followed by the Airforce. Meaning: If MOST of the Iraqi + Afghan Insurgents get killed by the U.S. Artillery and during air raids = N-O-T BY U.S. RIFLEFIRE , then the SAME AMOUNT of rifle ammunition is needed to kill only a SMALLER number of remaining Insurgents, ergo every Insurgent needs to be killed BY EVEN MORE rounds than you initially stated!
In mathematics it’s defined like this: “The smaller the divisor, the bigger the quotient” :
DIVIDEND / DIVISOR = QUOTIENT
The DIVIDEND is the total amount of rounds spent,
the DIVISOR is the number of Insurgents killed by U.S. riflefire (which shrinks of course, after you discount all those killed by other, heavier ordnance),
the QUOTIENT is the resulting number of rounds needed to kill every individual Insurgent.
Let’s imagine that the number of Insurgents killed by U.S. infantrymen is only HALF of all the dead Insurgents.
Then it takes not 250.000 rounds to kill every single Insurgent, but TWICE AS MANY = 500.000 rounds!
And if (presuming that…) only one quarter of all dead Insurgents are killed by U.S. riflefire, then the total number of rounds needed to kill each single Insurgent is a mind-numbing QUADRUPLE of 250.000 rounds = A WHOLE MILLION !
If every STANAG magazine carries 30 rounds, that’s 33.333 magazines to kill a single bulbul (who are the REAL “ragheads” here?) !!!
But since some STANAG magazines carry only 20 rounds, that could make as much as 50.000 magazines to successfully drop each bulbul! (I must be the BEST SNIPER of the whole goddamned U.S.A. …)
I wonder: Do U.S. infantrymen allow their targets to go home, have lunch, take a dump, go to work, attack outposts, go shopping, enjoy the night-life and even sleep sound between hits, all the while firing non-stop at them?
I’m also beginning to contemplate the prospect of Europe being invaded by the U.S.A. one day with increasing optimism!

By: Big Daddy

Big Daddy — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:20:03 +0000

That story rings a bell, how true it is I don’t know. There is so much BS on the internet and so many nut jobs I really find myself not even reading nearly as much about my interests as I have in the past.
This site as well as so many others are constantly polluted by left wing, right wing and just plain old nut cases. I don’t even like to post anywhere anymore. Sports sites are even worse than military ones.
Do ya think the armchair commandos are bad here…ha.….I play music, go to a guitar site and deal with those wannabee guitar gods…LMAO…they are much worse.

By: Byron Skinner

Byron Skinner — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:40:24 +0000

Good Morning Big Daddy,
You are correct you can purchase M-855 ammo, most of the M-855 that is on the street now is DoD rejected product from the Lake City plant in Mo. before it was closed down for modernization, the equipment was just worn out. That said if you look at US Code and the section dealing ammunition the M-855 is clearly an AP round and it’s sale is illegal.
Most this ammo was unloaded to wholesalers, assumed for foreign sales? What ever. It can be found for sale at some gun shows and by retailers who operate in an environment where the enforcement of fire arm laws is not a high priority for either the Feds or local law enforcement.
The question of Federal legality is rather mute, that is of course until the ATFE wants to make a bust. I can by “medical marijuana” at at least four store from location from walking distance from the house, and have been able to for well over a year.
Marijuana is still an illegal substance under Federal Law but the retail sales and small amount consumption has been a very low priority for the DEA . The last local bust was a single retail outlet on 07, it was done as a photo opt for the media and so far nobody has as of yet been charged with anything.
One thing I might add for other posters here, don’t brag about you own weapons collection or what kind of ammo you have. The Feds watch this site and others where the topic often comes up. I know of at least one example of where someone one was bragging about having M-855 ammo and the assault rifles he owned. The lived in Wyoming a state that has rather loosy-gossy fire arms laws and very lax enforcement. He got a visit from ATFE, they were interested in one of his rifles he talked about in a post, a Bushmaster with a short barrel, 10″. The weapon started out as a 16″ but was “modified” and thus very illegal.
When asked for the registration or other paper work, like a receipt or a bill of sale he admitted he bought it for cash from a private party. The serial number was checked, bad news, the Bushmaster was stolen from a gun shop in another state.
The result is, the guy did a plea bargain on a Federal Weapons charge a Federal Felony, he go a suspended sentence but because he is convected felon his days of fire arm collecting are over, the told him to try stamp collecting.
Moral of the story, be very careful of what you say on the web.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

By: Big Daddy

Big Daddy — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:22:06 +0000

It’s true Bryon you can get M855 ammo or just about anything else you want including HE warheads depending on what state and if you have the paper work and want to spend the money.
There are a few types of rounds that will not be sold to civilians.
All the weapons we are talking about and their ammo are antiquated and there are better weapons out there right now. There are also coatings that require no lube that should be used on our weapons but it’s all about giving the infantry cheap stuff. And spending the money on the F-35 which will never fly and will hopefully be canceled. The guy in the trenches always gets the shaft except the day they made one good decision and adopted the M-1 Garand.

By: Dork

Dork — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:13:03 +0000

I am looking for a place to buy some shoes.
Can anyone here help me out?

By: Mat

Mat — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:05:57 +0000

Yes sure how may hot infils/exfils do you see in afganisatan,and when in comes to combat Us forces are almost as much spray & pray as any other.That is why you dont give them full auto rifles.