Well, there’s more to the GAO report on Army ESAPI plate testing than meets the eye.
With only a couple references thrown in early on, it’s easy to miss it. But a sharp eyed researcher at the Project on Government Oversight who called me today to ask a few questions did my job better than I and raised an issue I should have pounced on.
It turns out, the Army did its ESAPI tests at Aberdeen instead of HP White not because DOT&E requested it, but because “one manufacturer of flexible small arms protective vests, which had failed previous testing conducted for the Program Executive Office (PEO) Soldier at an NIJ-certified facility, made allegations that the PEO Soldier and the facility had wrongly failed its designs.”
Okay folks, who do you think that is?
So it turns out our reporting in October of ’08 was spot on that the Army deemed the technology too immature to field deployable Flexible-SAP systems. The GAO fills in some blanks, saying (not sure how many) vendors sent in samples of a Flexible Small Arms Protective Vest-Enhanced and FSAPV-X and shot them at Aberdeen between February and June of ’08.
In October 2008, on the basis of the Preliminary Design Model testing results, the Army awarded four 5-year indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity contracts at a total of over $8 billion for the production of the ESAPI and the XSAPItwo categories of ceramic plates. No FSAPV-E or FSAPV-X solutions passed the testing.
Now this gets back to our boy Allan Bain’s contention that flexible systems need a whole new test methodology different from the Army’s current one (that failed the FSAPs in ’08)…but that’s a debate for another post.
(Gouge: MS)
– Christian
One single look at this lard assed shithead is enough to make a soldier vomit.
This pot bellied swine couldn’t do a single chin up if his life depended on it!
Yet we see him giving a lecture about a FSAFV-e and x.
What ever in the hell they are.
This fat assed, puss gut shithead should be sent to someplace where the food is less, and the excercise is more!
Is it any wonder that the US Army is getting its ass kicked around?
The USA is a laughing stock.
And with good reason.
For Christ’s sake, just take a look at this pathetic dork?
He, on his best day, just might qualify to be an assistant cub scout den mother.
Yet, this horrid hippotimous bellied leg, is an officer in the US Army?
Jesus H. Christ.
Coming from the UK and having over the years seen how many times the GAO have been flat out wrong (meaning there reports on nearly every major weapon system were flat wrong) does anyone actually take this seriously?
Seems to me that a GAO report that attacks a system tends to mean the system is actually very very good, see GAO F-16, M1 Tank, AH-64, M-2 Bradley reports for examples.
In short: the GAO seem to be a bunch of idiots and I for one wouldn’t believe a wrod theat came out of their mouths!
Out of uniform he doesn’t look so soldierly to me. :/
Then again, I don’t think all the famous generals of WW2 were fitness studs in old age, were they? But at least Eisenhower didn’t have a beer belly.
Even so, why do flexible plates deserve a different metric? Are the tests so inherently biased? Are they little more than “shoot the plates and see if they break”, which is what they are expected to do in the battlefield?
They should just do what Walter Christie did in the ‘30s…sell your technology to someone else (in Christies case, the Russians. For Dragon Skin, who knows?). Is it treason if your government rejects it as unimportant?
The weight issue is complicated, but I suppose a hybrid system is possible where the scales only cover specific portions of the body, or one uses lighter scales in areas unlikely to be hit, and heavier scales in areas likely to be hit.
Dragon Skin is trying to be more flexible and have more coverage than the traditional BPV + plate. It might be worth it from a first-generation engineering standpoint to pick one of the two and run with it.
Jones, thank you.
The photo doesn’t speak a thousand words, only at phrase “WTF?“
What were you thinking? Dressing that officer up in a Combat uniform and having him explain testing shortfalls of body armor before live press has got to qualify for the Darwin award.
There was a time, not that long ago, that this officer was promoted while other fully qualified and physically fit officers and soldiers were given discharges for failing to meet height/weight standards or appearance. This is sad.
Hey Christian,
Any updates on the Evolution Skaalar armor designed by Alla Bain?
I know guys that are WAY more fat than that guy that have no problem passing all the PT requirements. They never pass the weight test and have issues with the tape test, but that does not mean they are out of shape. Having extra Fat and not being physically fit are not mutually exclusive.
Oh and how many times have you seen a skinny guy fail the PT test? Me personally I have seen it more often from the guys that look like they are in shape than then guys that don’t.
Oh and for all you know this guy in 60yrs old and passes all the tape test no problem because his height weight requirments are so much lower.
You don’t put pigs out to pasture. That’s horses. And some of you all need to get a grip. Does the briefer owe you money or something? For all you know he’s a Reservist or some Acquisition Corp desk jockey… not everyone is Cav by God! (Which means that not everyone is the stone cold, rock hard, steely eyed specimen of pure manhood that Jones and Zandor surely are).
Is that General Mark Brown? I’ve seen him speak, and I don’t trust that guy any farther than I could throw him.
Not to disagree with you all, but I am am going to.
On the Fat issue.
General Groves in the 40’s was a fat turd. But they let it slide since he was an amazing organizer.
Who is General Groves? Organizer of the Manhattan project.
On the plate issue, we all know the fix was in. When your giving billions out in grants people call you and whisper sweet things in your ear about after retirement.…..
The message on General Groves is from some other Dennis.
General Groves was in the military when we had an 8 million man Army. Today the active force is less than 540,000. General Groves didn’t give press conferences. By and large, photos of General Groves are of him in Class B or better uniform. I have a great deal of respect for those who served in “The greatest generation”. I have a lot less respect for those officers who survived the drawdowns of the 80’s and 90’s. I served with many of them and the best and brightest were told to walk or quit out of disgust.
That may well be a fine manager, but the US Army has always depended on fine leaders. The process that put him on stage to explain to the press needs serious review.
I am no longer the steely eyed killer that I once was, but god help me, I don’t look like that.
“That may well be a fine manager, but the US Army has always depended on fine leaders. The process that put him on stage to explain to the press needs serious review.“
I’ll drink to that (at least in the abstract… I don’t personally know this particulat guy). I got out after my first exposure to General officer leadership. The process that puts stars (and birds) on people needs work.
If, as Napoleon said: ” the Army moves on its stomach “, and this briefing nerd is an example of the US Army, then the US Army must be the fastest moving thing on the planet.
For fcks sake, stop discussing ‘fatty the soldier’ and comment on the article.
FINALLY, a comment worth reading. Comment on the subject of the body armor and pick some other related article to post this crap. ALL it does is seem to say you know absolutely nothing about body armor so you attack the messenger.
How do you modify the test when the goal is the same, stop penetration of the round. The hard plates either flexible or non-flexible still are mainly meant to stop the projectiles from rifles. The soft armor is meant to stop the shrapnel. The armor needs to be able to stop multiple hits and not fall aprt while wearing it up to the time it performs it’s intended job.
AND having just retired in 06, I prefer to see this guy that can manage the program just where he is. IF we can keep him there and NOT have a fit and trim officer pulled OFF the line to perform this mission great. Maybe ya’ll forgot but there are a few wars going on and using him for his brain is the mission he is performing. NOW, if you don’t think he has the brain to perform the mission is another thing but his weight does not affect the performance of THIS mission.