My colleague Jamie McIntyre has a post over on his new blog, The Line of Departure, on the Osprey’s pending deployment to Afghanistan.
He forwards some intel from the Rainman of all things Osprey, Rick Whittle, who covered the plane as a reporter for the Dallas Morning News and took the buyout a few years ago to write his upcoming book on the helo/fixed wing hybrid transport “The Dream Machine: The untold story of the notorious V-22 Osprey.”
I’ve worked with Rick a lot on stories back in his regular journalism days and I consider him a friend and colleague. He forwarded a note to Jamie giving his take on the deployment, which is now set for November, and I invite you to read the whole post at TLOD.
This is the first deployment to Afghanistan and it should be the acid test, given the terrain and climate and the fact that Al Qaeda and the Taliban will surely be gunning for the aircraft if they see it. The Osprey didnt get shot at much in Iraq because it was flying mainly in Anbar province, which was pretty peaceful at that time. It flew well in Iraq, even in searing heat, but most of that country is barely above sea level. Rotorcraft lose performance at higher altitudes and in hot temperatures, and Afghanistan is pretty high and hot.
Rick’s got a point, though I would caveat it with the fact that in all likelihood the Ospreys will be operating mostly in support of RC-South where the capitol of Helmand provide sits at around 3,400 feet in elevation. I’d be interested to see the inside scoop on whether the Osprey can take off and land in a full-on hover in the altitudes of RC-East, though I suspect like with lots of helos (even the CH-47) there are some weight and landing altitude restrictions that will bracket the Osprey’s operations.
But don’t get all excited about helicopter assault missions and stuff either. Yes, some Marine units deployed for combat operations via CH-53s earlier this summer, but I doubt seriously those chomping for a Robert’s Ridge style air assault test will get what they’re asking for.
I will say this however, the Marine Corps refuses to speak on the record whether VMM-261 is taking its own aircraft or will fall in on aircraft in the area (the 22 MEU has Ospreys aboard its amphibs). If the squadron takes its own aircraft, would it self-deploy them or ship them over? We all know the answer to that one.
The excuse given is that alternatively the Marine Corps is worried about “operational security” by talking about how and when the planes will get there. Don’t worry folks, I cried foul on that one, but was still denied any details. I was then told that the Corps was hoping to reduce the stress any media attention would have on the squadron so best not to say anything which would prompt more questions…
Why the paranoia? Does the Corps worry about opsec when it talks F-18, Harrier, Cobra, 53 and 46 squadron deployments…yes, to some extent, but there isn’t a media blackout on it like there is here. Just what is the service worried about? Didn’t Iraq prove that the plane could do what it was billed to do? Why still the first time jitters? Or is it, as my boss suspects, that there’s something to hide here? Miserable mission capable rates, poor maintenance support, deteriorating parts etc.
I’m still on it, but let’s energize the grid to get some answers folks.
Also, one last thing — still checking up on the deployment of the Remote Guardian gun system. We reported that the Corps planned to arm the Afghanistan MV-22s with the underbelly gun, but now there’s some doubt based on the mystery surrounding which planes will be part of the deployment. The 22 MEU birds don’t have the guns, and I’m not sure if the 261 planes have it either…so can the system be retrofitted in country?
– Christian
So Soon,Lets not rush the wonder weapon. There is a lot of money riding on this and we can‘t risk failure.
Christian,
I think I have a few theories as to what is going on here. Gates was the one that mentioned this was going to be deployed to the South. I don’t judge Gates as the type to move out a piece of equipment he doesn’t feel is capable of the mission.
He could however be telling the Marines to put up or shut up with the Osprey. I personally like the aircraft but I am not an operator nor have I had to rely on it as my transportation either. As far as arming it? This is the Marine Corps we are talking about. You can give a Marine a two by four and tell him to take on a machine gun nest and he’d probably do it.
I think the OPSEC for this one is do in part because they don’t want the taliban to know when its coming. It would be the indicator of a sizable marine force is incoming to the area.
With the speed and service celing of this aircraft being what they are, I doubt they want the Taliban knowing when a potential TTP changer is going to be spinning up the dust at a battlefield near you.
Another possibility here is they know how they want to use the Osprey. As a fast pick up truck to move supplies faster and most likely safer than a ground convoy can. If they utilize it as a way to shuttle supplies and troops about, it could keep us further away from the roadside bombs.
All I say is this. Wish them the best of luck Christian, whether or not any of us think they are ready or not is not the issue now. They are going and that is that. Lets hope they perform to the promise they were billed as.
The Osprey didn’t get shot at much in Iraq because it was flying mainly in Anbar province, which was pretty peaceful at that time. It flew well in Iraq, even in searing heat, but most of that country is barely above sea level. Rotorcraft lose performance at higher altitudes and in hot temperatures, and Afghanistan is pretty high and hot.^–
1: i wish they will tell about Ospreys hovering in such highs..
2: i wish they will tell about Ospreys speed in such highs..
3: i wish they will tell about Ospreys being modificated for Afghanisatn sand…
Seeing as they haven’t figured out how to use the Osprey on boat ops, I guess they have to figure out how to take it along on a non-Marine mission that should be done by the Army.
LC Keith Sweeney was a good friend of our family and he rode the bird in on the last mission that
never signed out for a completed mission. He believed in this bird from the time he flew them at Pax River.
Perhaps his spirit will guide the leaders and operators to continue to impove the sytems of immense complexity and audacious potential.
When you operate with FLIR or terrain following systems you don’t fly over mountains you use the
mountain to hide from Mohammad.
You wanna bet the snake eaters frag this crap out of this bird for their missions?
The RG is supposedly plug-and-play, still don’t know if any have actually been bought yet.
I’d like to see this remote guardian supplemented with 2–4 of the newer lightweight missiles (<50 lbs), like the griffin, which is a javelin missile made for aircraft, already built. It is only 6 inches wide and might fit right next to the gun, on the turret. I think these mv-22 aircraft could become an all around good support aircraft with the longer range strike capability.
I don’t see this aircraft as being combat effective. The oversize rotors prevent any sort of weapon being launched or deployed forward of the aircraft (also the direction of opposing forces). Not only that but the two oversize props give any insurgent a much larger target to hit, not to mention if one of the rotors fail that the whole aircraft is completely and utterly F’d.
Here’s a thought I had on a capability that could be useful for the osprey. Have a forward firing mortar system that will fire a spread out similar to the WW2 Hedgehogs used be our destroyers. Its a quick way to fire a lot of heavy ordnance fast to clear the LZ before our forces get in hot and heavy. After they are down, the Door gunner has his work cut out for him. The other part is the Cobra more than likely will be coming with…but they must leave much earlier than the Osprey due to the raneg and speed of the Osprey. The same happens with our Apaches when they are tasked to go with the Chinooks.
BTW, any of our birds gets a rotor hit and its going down. As for them being large? The chinook has 2 massive rotors as well.
does anybody even care that there are 6 AFSOC CV-22 in IRAQ right now doing real, land in the back yard, kick in the door Assult mission.
Let the lives of these men be the judge of the aircraft. I know that sounds cold and unkind, but it’s the truth. If these men come back alive and successful, it will be, at least in part, because the airframe did its job well.
To the poster “AMMO” :
You wrote: “Let the lives of these men be the judge of the aircraft. I know that sounds cold and unkind, but it’s the truth. If these men come back alive and successful, it will be, at least in part, because the airframe did its job well.“
What are you worried about, “AMMO” ? Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam are ideal low-intensity and low-tech conflicts in which Ospreys can be tested under realistic conditions, and without excessive risk! What better luck could you possibly wish them?