More than 90 days of this “consulting” and “deliberating” and “solemn duty” stuff and Obama comes up with a Bush-esque surge…and oh, yeah, it’s gotta be over in three years (by the time he’s running for a second term).…
And why 10K less than McChrystal asked for? Anyone wonder why 30K is a better number than 40K?
Military.com|by Christian Lowe
President Obama’s Afghan surge of 30,000 additional U.S. troops will include an immediate infusion of California-based Marines, with the first elements set to be on the ground in southern Afghanistan around Christmas.
The Leathernecks will bolster a force of about 8,000 Marines who deployed to the region in July to knock back Taliban gains in Helmand and Kandahar provinces where insurgents linked to Mullah Mohammed Omar threaten Afghanistan’s second largest city.
“The first troops out of the door are going to be Marines,” said Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway, according to the Washington Post. “We’ve been leaning forward in anticipation of a decision. And we’ve got some pretty stiff fighting coming.“
Sources also tell Military.com that the Army will likely send three additional Infantry Brigade Combat Teams, or about 9,000 more combat forces and 5,000 support troops — including police and military trainers, bomb squads and engineers — as well as around 7,000 headquarters staffers to manage the war more effectively.
The Soldiers will likely deploy to eastern Afghanistan, which is under the command of Maj. Gen. Curt Scaparrotti from the 82nd Airborne Division. According to Gen. McChrystal’s strategic review, RC-East includes the key provinces of Khost, Paktia and Paktika where Taliban insurgents are vying for control.
Gen. Conway, who recently traveled to the region, said that the Corps is poised to send as many as 9,000 Marines to bolster efforts in southern Afghanistan, where the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade has been deployed since July to back up British, Canadian and Dutch forces who command operations there. McChrystal’s analysis shows that Taliban insurgents led by Mullah Mohammed Omar are making a strong push to control Kandahar, the country’s second largest city and a key logistics hub for RC-South forces.
“The [Taliban] has been working to control Kandahar and its approaches for several years and there are indications that their influence over the city and the neighboring districts is significant and growing,” McChrystal wrote in his August 30 assessment.
Sources say the additional Marines will likely come from 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade based in Camp Pendleton, Calif.
While Army officials won’t say on the record what units are included in the Obama surge, recent history in Iraq gives an indication of how the service might carry out the new plan — a combination of truncated turnaround schedules, redirections, and extended deployments. Army documents provided to Military.com show several infantry brigade combat teams that have more than a year back home that could be part of an escalation, including the 2nd IBCT of the 82nd Airborne, the 1st IBCT of the 10th Mountain Division and nearly all of the 101st Airborne Division.
Read the rest of our story HERE…
– Christian
{ 70 comments… read them below or add one }
If I'm not mistaken McChrystal made this request, Obama did not "come up with a Bush-esque surge…".
Chrstian loves to troll dont he?
More is not always better…..the logistics and infrastructure may not be in place.
McChrystal said 80,000 additional troops would make for the best chance of sucess, at the least risk for the men.
Obama made a partizan political choice, simple as that.
The political whining about politics here is getting tired. I'm not here to listen to you complain.
I 100% agree, C thinks this is CNN and that his opinion matters, WRITE ABOUT TECH NOT POLITICS!
So much all the "get us out of Iraq and Afganistan" story Obama was feeding the American people to get votes. Enough about the politics, I get sick just thinking about it. Anyway at least the Jarheads will be the first in, it should end all that more quicker.
This would be over by now if they stopped the handcuffing of the Marines and let them do their jobs to the fullest extent. thes eguys were trained for one thing and they should be used to that full capacity. Semper Fi.
2nd Engineer Bn
82-85
"And why 10K less than McChrystal asked for? Anyone wonder why 30K is a better number than 40K?"
Isn't the overall plan 30K US troops and 10K NATO troops? That adds up to 40K. Obama was probably spending all that time trying to get others to commit more troops, so we could commit less. At least he finally made a decision.
Any number of reasons 30,000 is "better" then 40,000.
- No infrastructure. This is actually a big issue and do we really want to be building MORE infrastructure when we really want to be thinking about getting out somewhere down the road.
- Quite possible McChrystal asked for 40,000 knowing he could make it work with 30,000, but if you ask for 30,000, they only give you 20,000, yada, yada
- Quite possibly, "they" took the time to actually PLAN a strategy, including many very complicated issues, such as building up the Afghani forces and government to a sustainable and self supporting level, as well as PLANNING a surge that will show some effectiveness, all stuff that was lacking with Bush/Rumsfeld in Iraq, thus a desire to avoid those mistakes.
SB
Logistics. Maybe we can't support that many more troops, especially as our supply lines are so tenuous and vulnerable (from the north, the neighboring 'stans could cut us off at any moment, to the east, Paki-stan could cut us off and our convoys are attacked).
Besides, who's the say that Obama can't dump more troops into this?
And if I recall correctly, the troops were going in under accelerated timetables to get more troops there faster. If I recall, "getting there the firstest" was one of those things we needed to make up for lost time.
Here's to the Marines…and no more Hadithas please.
No more Hadithas? what kind of asshole are you? Have you evered served?
Knowing our Muslim president, he probably was waiting for the OK from the Muslim world to commit more troops….
Well I wouldn't be suprised if he didn't seek their approval at all. He seems hell bent on bending over for the Muslim 'governments' of the world. Sad i know.
An Iraq type surge and draw down for a country the size of Afghanistan seems a bit rushed. Max Boot and Daniel Markey from the Council on Foreign Relations said a short Iraq type surge may not be realistic given the nature of the conflict.
At first I thought the President had approved 34,000 with NATO putting up 5,000 to make up the difference to reach 40,000, but now I see the President (like George Will predicted) has chosen to split the difference to build consensus.
The laughable 2011 draw down is pure politics. Hopefully things will work out so that the risk the President is taking with these parred down troop totals, and hasty draw down, won't cost lives or adversely affect the mission.
NATO has pretty much shown its obsolescence with this war, with their responses to the President's call for new troop contributions:
France: No.
Germany: We will get back to you.
Britain: 500
NATO has been obsolete and a waste of time and money since 1989.
NATO is a worse sham than the UN.
"Here's to the Marines…and no more Hadithas please"
Remind me how many were convicted in that case?
Glad he finaly made the decision and listened to the people who you know…accually fight wars.
And the 2007 surge wasn't politics? How about the 2004 transfer of sovereignty?
Yes it was it’s all politics. BUT it was done right! Think before you jump the gun next time.
The 2007 “surge” work and it was done right.And yes it was politics but all wars are. All were all saying is if we are going to do this then let’s do it right and get ot over it let us win and come home.
"no more Hadithas"
That will be easy, just don't allow any Time reporters to embed. While we're at it, skip the AP on account of the ghoul Julie Jacobson.
It’s about time Obama did something but let’s let the Marines leave after Christmas.
If I was in charge, I would pull out of Afghanistan, But keep some boots still on the ground in Iraq…stay their until its more calm…its pretty slow going their will the IED's and corruption.
We have nothing to gain from a peaceful afghan. And when does the fighting end? who do you go after? Its not like its borders is a moat filled with gators. You have to deal with the whole regions problems (I'm looking at you Iran and Pakistan).
Oh, and I'm getting tired of everybody talking about McChrystal's "40,000" number. Which isn't really true. The general said he needed 60,000 to 40,000 troops…But somhow the press (and apparently this site) talks as if the 40k figure is the high one.
I dont support what Obama is about to do. I would support 2 different things.
1. Pull out of Afghanistan
or
2. Put 60,000 more soldiers on the ground and see if we cant over power and out number them.
I view anything other then those 2 routes, is only delaying the inevitable pull out of that country.
Why does the aircraft, that these US Marines are exiting, have what looks like an ATM stuck on to its starboard fuselage?
Is there an ATM on the port side as well?
Why isn't the ATM camouflaged?
On the other hand the machine in question might be a CD player blasting out From The Halls Of Montezuma.
My bet is that it is an ATM, but I might be wrong.
Flare launcher? Total guess.
Hmm, I can't believe you don't know! Why should I educate you?
ATM.. funny guy.
Its a chaff and flare dispenser.
That is a Ch-53E Helicopter and that is an anti missle Chaff dispenser
LMAO…chaff and flare dispenser. Yes, there is another "atm" on the other side. they are activated by the pilot or the crewchief in the back by means of "panic buttons".
What does the 20007 surge have to do with this one? You keeping score, becuase I'm not.
NO but we all think that you are!
I mean Jesus Christ…the guy is not as bad as some people let on, but let's evaluate the man based on his own actions, w/o constantly dragging up the past.
Anyone remember 1972? looks like it all over again. We need to do it right this time. you would think that history would be playing a part in Obama’s so called “Surge” but again he’s not to smart when it come’s to Military history. It’s to bad he’s only doing this to please a small amount of people. and for politcs.So Mr. Obama is your out there and should happen to read this. Take heed and don’t repeat bad History! instead listen and understand what history has to say. DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME! WIN AND GET US OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!
Because x more troops will win the war… forget 1972, remember 1964-1968.
My kingdom for a washing machine….if Jesus was a woman.
Not for nuttin', but do we have 60,000 ?, or even 40,000 troops to send ?.
If I'm not mistaken, after 8 yrs. of rotations in and out of Afghanistan, as well as 6 years of Iraq, the Army and the Corps were/are on their last ropes deployment wise. Something has to give and one reality is we cannot keep surging troops we simply don't have and still be able to maintain a viable trained and effective force structure.
It would be another story if prior administrations added 10 or 20 brigades to the force structure 6 years ago, but too late now.
So quite possibly part of the past 9 weeks have been spent by the Army and the Marines trying to figure out where the magical troops are to come from without breaking the system.
SB
I'm saying everything since 2001 has been pure politics and I'm pretty damn disappointed that this is, too.
This is pure politics, and I can assure that during Bush's term, it was not all politics. The Generals asked, and received.
Apparently eight of the Marines in the incident were granted immunity. That doesn't mean they were out of line.
And I refer to a bunch of dead civilians, it doesn't matter what the military courts say. Afghans don't draw distinctions. There are either dead civilians, or there aren't dead civvies.
First of all you never ever tell your enemy what your plans are or give them a timeline. this is what we get for YOU who voted him in office. He doe’s NOT know how to lead and he is NOT a leader
Unfortuantly that wise piece of advice went out the window many decades ago thanks to 'PC' military leaders and intursive press organisations. These days the enemy is lucky if he DOESN'T know what we're doing!
It is pretty much impossible to win wars with such a nonsense PC mindset that you should have to inform your public exactly what is going on, who is being deployed when and where they re being deployed and also mindblowingly when and where operations take place! We in the UK do all of the above…
The broad strategic direction won't give them much on the tactical level. And I'm sure there's enough flexibility on the ground such that the Taliban won't be able to exploit the unclassified dribbles that emerge on CNN.
Not a month ago there where dozens of you complaining that it was taking Obama to long to give the troops, now there are dozens of you complaining he is sending the troops. Hopefully he didn't take into account anyone but the generals and the welfare of America into account when choosing cause if it was up to the public who knows what we would get.
+1, in all reality, he should have just asked the military personnel and families, as of right now it seems the American people are more and more becomeing a bunch of self taught experts that do nothing but complain about anything. I guess all I can do is get ready for this upcoming pump over there. Sgt. U.S.M.C.
The surge didnt "work" until we bribed up the Anbar Awakening. Or at least the surge was the killing blow to the enemy.
We were never anywhere near to administering the killing blow in Afghanistan. We still aren't. We'd done better in Iraq with the troops, the tech and the retrained armed forces (though we made an error in letting the police turn into Madhi Army with uniforms).
"Bush-esque surge?" What the hell kind of revisionist fantasy is that? Bush and Rumsfeld fought tooth and nail against any kind of surge, as advocated by John McCain. Christian, whatever your personal feelings about the POTUS you discredit your good work with such naked prejudice. Whatever our course in Afghanistan, it deserves some damn serious deliberation. The security of our country and the welfare of our warfighters deserve nothing less. Need I remind you, Bush, Rumsfeld et al. virtually ignored Afghanistan for seven years?
i want this guy to post more.
Call me when 380,000 more troops are deployed, I might take you seriosuly then Mr Messiah.
As it is this is simply a token gesture so 'The One' can say "we tried but we couldn't do it" just as he wanted
Are you still posting here? Go to Glen Becks site and be gone.
Call me when we have 380,000 available troops to deploy.
Obama faces an impossible situation: nobody believes it's possible to "win" in Afghanistan, but withdrawal is not politically acceptable. Under the circumstances, it's the best choice available, but it's still going to hurt.
The current Karzai regime has no credibility and it's hard to see how it could ever get any. The opium problem is as bad as ever. The situation is not improving over the border in Pakistan. These are outside Obama's control, and not good news for the Afghan project.
I agree that this is a step that was needed many moons ago, but I also don’t believe that this war will be over in “less than 3 years”. America stepped in the poo deeper than most realize, and it’s gonna take a long time to get that s**t off our boots.
BTW, the pod on the side of the A/C is a countermeasure magazine, but it’s chaff, not flares. Probably to keep off radar-guided SAMs. Flares have red endcaps, and are usually situated on the left.
nice one, i knew that was not a ATM.
Are you going ? If so, then keep your head down. Hope all goes well.
If not, then STFU. Support those going. Stop bitching and moaning. Leave that to the Marines and soldiers, they are better at it anyway.
One wonders how many combat troops total are in Afghanistan, and how many rear echelon.
I know the writer never served in the military but can he at least not insult all Marines who have served and died for this country. "Jarhead" as you like to say is a insult so why dosn't ms. lowe go back to jerkely and let an American write this stories, and yes I'm a Marine.
In other words: you don't want to hear bad things about Obama.
We don't care about politics,we care about new tech.
18 months then we leave.
Think the Taliban will not mostly lay low until then?
We have all the clocks…..they have all the time.
Obama is a treasonous fool.
please explain how a year an d a half of stability in Afghanistan while we pursue them would be bad.
Because the Taliban will just wait for us to leave. We are giving them our timetable.
Obama went full retard.
Nothing like doubling down on a losing hand. Corruption, no jobs, an armed populace, alien ideology, save havens across the border, a sympathetic populace, challenging terrain and a history as the graveyard of empires.
And McCrystal as Alcabidies.
Nemesis is the gods' answer to hubris.
A Nobel Prize for Peace who sends 30000 more troops to wage war in a foreign country is the height of hypocrisy. Mr Barak Hussein O. is only a clown who continually deceives honest people.
i think alot of helo's are needed, traveling on roads is dangerous..air-assault is the way to go..good luck Marines, you tough mothers, godspeed…
No-bama has no clue what the heck he is doing in office period. Totally unqualified to be the President and he is still wearing his "senate diapers" as well. The enemy will simply dig in and wait till July of 2011 to come and go. No-bama didn't support the troops nor the war on terror in the beginning and he sure as heck doesn't believe in the cause now. He is totally worthless and the troops lives are whats on the line now. The only real solution to Afghanistan is TOTAL VICTORY. Ignore borders, go after the Taliban and Al-Queada where they hide and root out OBL period. Anything less is unacceptable.
yes, over 2 years of no Taliban interference in Afghanistan would be soooo bad for the country.
"If I'm not mistaken McCrystal made this request, Obama did not "come up with a Bush-esque surge…"."
—-
Actually more Bush Lite than Bush-esque.
McCrystal asked for more combat forces, 80,000 at the high end with 40,000 the minimum, no time limits, more NATO/European combat and support forces and much more to insure success.
What he got was less US combat forces, few foreign combat forces, a few more foreign support units and an emphasis on a modified cut and run strategy – regardless of success or failure.
Nothing more than a hodge podge of war stew ingredients to temper the criticism of both the left and right, save prospects for upcoming elections and preserve the goals of using all available obtainable funds for his social agenda.
More post turtle tactics.
Obama can't, Bush opened a new can of worms with Iraq. Maybe this will screw the country up so bad, will get a president with a head on his shoulders (note I didn't say her because of the two likely female presidential canidates). Who knows how to take care of his troops, his people, his land, and his country. Until then we'll be controlled by a government that looks more and more like a joke, every day. The current administration's goal is to advocate it's own political ideologies, so was the last's
Let the Afgans fight their own battles. I thought the few SF's people that were with the Afgans helping to direct our air assets did the most good. Afganistan will NEVER BE SECURE !!!
You can't tell by the endcaps, at least anymore.
Don't know what their loadout is, but based on the fact that the Taliban aren't know to be rocking any radar-guided weapons, but are well-known as having a number of IR-guided MANPADS, it's probably all flares.