Comments on: Sidewinder Ground Missile http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/ The Future of the Military, Law Enforcement and National Security Sat, 26 May 2012 02:10:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ralph fife http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-191523 ralph fife Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:29:43 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-191523 why would you need a shaped charge to disable and sink a little speedboat? why would you need a shaped charge to disable and sink a little speedboat?

]]> By: ralph fife http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-191522 ralph fife Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:28:23 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-191522 AIM9 is a Navy missile. Developed at the Naval Weapons Center in Ridgecrest CA and has always been a winner... If I had to guess I would have to say it is a tweaking of the particular IR band that the seeker is discriminating for....like a hot boat motor against a sea background.... Probably needs a steep shoot angle as it doesnt know much about ground avoidance to solve its pursuit problem...... Anyway cool.... Sidewinder....and Sidearm.....and Boatwinder..... I wonder if you get a kill for a speedboat...little red raghead speedboat stencils.... AIM9 is a Navy missile. Developed at the Naval Weapons Center in Ridgecrest CA and has always been a winner… If I had to guess I would have to say it is a tweaking of the particular IR band that the seeker is discriminating for.…like a hot boat motor against a sea background.… Probably needs a steep shoot angle as it doesnt know much about ground avoidance to solve its pursuit problem.….. Anyway cool.… Sidewinder.…and Sidearm.….and Boatwinder.…. I wonder if you get a kill for a speedboat…little red raghead speedboat stencils.…

]]> By: fsdjfjio http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-191248 fsdjfjio Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:48:16 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-191248 I think this could prove to be a cheaper alternative to Hellfire missile for not so heavily armed targets. Taliban insurgents comes to mind. A predator drone can probably carry more of then too. If newer air to air missile is already in service it makes sense to adapt their existing stockpile of sidewinders to ground attack role especially as it only requires a software change I think this could prove to be a cheaper alternative to Hellfire missile for not so heavily armed targets. Taliban insurgents comes to mind. A predator drone can probably carry more of then too.

If newer air to air missile is already in service it makes sense to adapt their existing stockpile of sidewinders to ground attack role especially as it only requires a software change

]]> By: Charles http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190964 Charles Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:20:52 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190964 Total agreement about DU. However a DU warhead isn't much of a dual purpose device. If you fire a sidewinder into the roof of a old tank (say a T-72), what happens? I'm sure someone is going to test it.... Total agreement about DU. However a DU warhead isn’t much of a dual purpose device.

If you fire a sidewinder into the roof of a old tank (say a T-72), what happens? I’m sure someone is going to test it.…

]]> By: Valcan http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190866 Valcan Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:06:10 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190866 Which is why i thought why not put a Depleted uranium slug in where the normal warhead would be. That would solve the penetration problem. Which is why i thought why not put a Depleted uranium slug in where the normal warhead would be. That would solve the penetration problem.

]]> By: Rick W http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190863 Rick W Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:54:36 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190863 Thanks for the correction. It's been a long time since school for me. Thanks for the correction. It’s been a long time since school for me.

]]> By: Nick http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190857 Nick Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:20:41 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190857 Unfortunately your numbers while true in kinetic energy potential don't factor in that a bullet or 120mm sabot is a solid projectile with relatively low variance in density. It resists spreading out and thus spreading out the kinetic energy over a larger surface. So unless you fitted the AIM-9X with a solid penetration tip you wouldn't get much done to heavy armor or a reinforced structure. That is if you disabled the fragmentation warhead that would otherwise detonate on proximity and thus destroy the missile before contact. Fitting a different warhead however would defeat the primary air-air role of the AIM-9. Air - Air missiles rarely make contact with the target due to the difficulty of actually doing so. They get close enough that the fragments of their fragmentation warhead will strike the target. And since an aircraft can't be that heavily armored and still fly compared to ground vehicles that is all you need. Unfortunately your numbers while true in kinetic energy potential don’t factor in that a bullet or 120mm sabot is a solid projectile with relatively low variance in density. It resists spreading out and thus spreading out the kinetic energy over a larger surface.

So unless you fitted the AIM-9X with a solid penetration tip you wouldn’t get much done to heavy armor or a reinforced structure. That is if you disabled the fragmentation warhead that would otherwise detonate on proximity and thus destroy the missile before contact.

Fitting a different warhead however would defeat the primary air-air role of the AIM-9. Air — Air missiles rarely make contact with the target due to the difficulty of actually doing so. They get close enough that the fragments of their fragmentation warhead will strike the target. And since an aircraft can’t be that heavily armored and still fly compared to ground vehicles that is all you need.

]]> By: Thomas L. Nielsen http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190833 Thomas L. Nielsen Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:32:32 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190833 Added note: I just checked: For the .50 cal. M8 API, 114.3 grams is the mass of the complete round. Regards, etc. Thomas L. Nielsen Luxembourg Added note: I just checked: For the .50 cal. M8 API, 114.3 grams is the mass of the complete round.

Regards, etc.

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

]]> By: Thomas L. Nielsen http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190797 Thomas L. Nielsen Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:17:09 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190797 Good morning, all There seems to be a little mix-up with the physics here: The formula for computing kintetic energy is Ekin = 0.5 * m * [v squared] that is one half times the mass times the velocity squared. Bullet mass for an M8 API is 622,5 grains (according to TM43-0001-27), equal to 40.3 grams or 0.0403 kg. Muzzle velocity is 2910 fps (again according to the TM43), or 887 meters pr. second, for an Ekin of 15.9 kJ. For the 120mm sabot round (8 kg at 1534 m/s), you end up with 9413 kJ. For the Sidewinder (some of the fuel will have been expended, but lets say 75 kg at mach 2.5, or something like 800 m/s) you get 24000 kJ, or something like 2.5 times the kinetic energy of the penetrator round. This isn't the entire story, though. The missile is no where near as dense as the APFSDS round, so penetration against a hard target will be less. The damage potential against a relatively soft target should be significantly higher though (think AP bullet vs. Glaser Safety Slug). Regards & all, Thomas L. Nielsen Luxembourg Good morning, all

There seems to be a little mix-up with the physics here:

The formula for computing kintetic energy is
Ekin = 0.5 * m * [v squared]
that is one half times the mass times the velocity squared.

Bullet mass for an M8 API is 622,5 grains (according to TM43-0001–27), equal to 40.3 grams or 0.0403 kg.
Muzzle velocity is 2910 fps (again according to the TM43), or 887 meters pr. second, for an Ekin of 15.9 kJ.

For the 120mm sabot round (8 kg at 1534 m/s), you end up with 9413 kJ.

For the Sidewinder (some of the fuel will have been expended, but lets say 75 kg at mach 2.5, or something like 800 m/s) you get 24000 kJ, or something like 2.5 times the kinetic energy of the penetrator round.

This isn’t the entire story, though. The missile is no where near as dense as the APFSDS round, so penetration against a hard target will be less. The damage potential against a relatively soft target should be significantly higher though (think AP bullet vs. Glaser Safety Slug).

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

]]> By: Rick W http://defensetech.org/2009/12/14/sidewinder-ground-missile/#comment-190627 Rick W Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:33:59 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5208#comment-190627 Sorry. In this case it should be the E=MV squared formula. :-/ Sorry. In this case it should be the E=MV squared formula. :-/

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