Defense Tech has the first exclusive look at some Joes wearing Natick’s own Universal Camouflage Pattern — Delta in the field in Afghanistan.
Below is a trooper from the 3rd Squadron of the 61st Cav wearing the UCP-D while teaching Afghan troops how to break down an M-16.
Now, the next two photos is where DT is breaking some news. Take a look at this one:
Notice the patches …these are not troopers from the 3rd of the 61st, are they? In fact, the caption reads they are from the 5th SBCT 2nd Battalion of the 508th PIR down in Kandahar province. Hmmm, funny. We were told the UCP-D was going to the 3rd of the 61st and MultiCam was going to the 2nd Battalion of the 12th Infantry Regiment (still haven’t seen any photos of them in action).
We pinged PEO Soldier on this discrepancy and learned that while 1,200 UCP-D ensembles were sent to the AO, the 3rd of the 61st has far fewer than 1,200 Soldiers. While accounting for spares and all, “a significant number of UCP-D uniforms were left over,” officials told us last night. So Combined Joint Task Force-82, the US command there, made a decision to field the remaining uniforms to other units, which obviously included some troops in the 508th.
Here’s a shot of a 5th SBCT Joe wearing the tactical accessory pouch in UCP-D:
All Soldiers who were issued the UCP-D uniforms (and the MC ones for that matter) will be required to submit feedback on the effectiveness of the pattern in their AO. So now it looks as if the Army is getting a lot more bang for its buck on their Af-Cam evaluation that they might have planned.
– Christian
{ 72 comments… read them below or add one }
looks like a muted swiss camo to me.
Christian,
I'm pretty sure the 508th is actually the 82d Abns 4th BCT. But maybe a battalion is attached to the 5th SBCT (Stryker Brigade Combat Team)
Thanks DirtDart…misread the caption which shows troops from both the 5th SBCT and 2BN 508th…but it's the 508th guys who have the UCP-D…fixed in post as well…
As a former Red Devil (w/ 173rd though) it sort of jumped out at me.
Wish they would put the unit patches on Velcro backed camo material to cover all the pocket velcro, it really stands out.
Maybe you could mention that to folks over at PEOSoldier next conversation.
They have such a thing to eliminate the velcro look. Bur you have to buy it, unit can get it from supply chain but it takes too long. Ranger Joes is in stock.
The third phot shows it is still too gray against a non-rocky background.
In the third photo, everyone I can see is in standard UCP. The only UCP-D is the first soldiers "tactical accessory pouch" the magazine pouch affixed to the front of his vest at the waist.
The low profile mag pouch is obviously in UCP-Delta.
Interesting, because I did not know gear was being made in the new pattern yet!
Christian mentioned that some would be issued in this article
http://defensetech.org/2009/11/12/break-break-uni...
Thanks Dirt Dart…yeah, Natick designed this mag pouch to attach directly to the IOTV's MOLLE webbing…and they made some in UCP-D to help cover the bulk of the UCP vest — otherwise it stands out pretty clearly…
If the military spent a 1/10th of the energy of this uniform boondoogle on actually fighting the war, the troops wouldn't even need it. The whole thing would be over already!
Funny we are not seeing any of the units who are testing (for the 10th time) multi-cam…this looks like the army advertising another crap uniform. Its the Emperors New Cloths with a bunch of senior people complementing each other over a great new uniform with the pvt in the field saying "these are crap". Give the army something that works. (and get rid of the damn black beret)
The Taliban don't wear any camo. How come they are winning the War?
Is it because they live there?
They are still dying in the hundreds and the lack of camo certainly doesn't help them.
Sorry. Saw it first in a CNN clip on soldiersystems.com.
Pete – The Taliban do use camo. They dress as civillians. Whenever they DO emerge, they're almost always all killed. They hide behind women and children and innocent Afghani's.
And the only way they'll win is if we give up. Sounds like maybe you already have.
Who brainwashed you?
Sounds like your the brainwashed one Robert. The Taliban and co. will gladly use civilians to their advantage at every opportunity.
Watching how the US lost the Vietnam war, then the Iraqi war to 'slopes' and then 'ragheads'. Hmmm….seems that the US would be better off sticking to attacking 3rd World 'countries' such as Granada, and Panama, places that don't actually have an Army.
Lost Vietnam because we pulled out to soon. The tet offensive destroyed the VC and NVA.
Lost the Iraq war? Who brainwashed you?
Ther US couldn't try and hand it back to the Iraqis fast enough. Even if the new Iraqi army was still infested with insurgents, was corrupt and useless, well tough. They were made responsible for all the cities etc.
I would be intersted to know what has the US gort to show for the invasion, after $1TRILLON spent on thier Chinese credit card, and 4000 dead soldiers. What fundemental thing changed?
I am writing this from Baghdad, trust me the Iraqis ARE holding thier own. They are pulling more weight than we are right now, and you can hear them kicking ass every night, with limited support from us, they are ready for the transition, the time is right. Its a different place here than it was in 2005-I would walk down any street in this country at any hour, which is more than I can say for cities such as Chicago,Detroit,L.A or N.Y.C! Why dont you come check out the scene here for yourself!
Well said, "Con". You fight with what you have, if anything can save one life I'm all for it. As screwed up as it is at least it looks like they (US Army) is trying. You know, you (US Army) can just adopt our uniform (US MARINE CORP).
Sorry Army had to do it.
Semper Fi
Since the USMC camos contain the EGA, no army staff can ever wear them.
hence why the manufacturer could/should produce a uniform without the EGA – a blank, as it were
They have made a copy w/out the EGA or blank as was Flyboy put it…you can purchase them in just about any Army/Navy store or on line. I believe Grit has them.
Go with what they have, It is fine!! This is not a contest to beat the Marine Corps Patented BDU!!!
Breechblock, SEMPER FI !!!
The Marine Corps would love nothing more than to break out the old WW II Raider Bn. pattern for their BDUs…fix bayonets, spit in their eye and turn to! And Mike, if the DOD issued an order tomorrow for the Army to adopt the M.C. pattern (minus the EGA) the Marines would soon adopt a totally different pattern…they just hate it when the other services copy them. When the Army adopted the Smokey Bear hat for their Drill Sgts, trying to make Army recruits think they were in an Army Parris Island, the U.S.M.C. D.I.s were a bit pissed but totally amused. Rivalry is healthy…it makes everyone try harder.
I fail to realize why the services insist on making patterns that do not deceive the eye…In snow, you wear white. At night, you wear black. In the Sh…eh, Bush, you wear Cams and in the friggin desert it should be a balance between the brown and sand colors. I can't help feeling that this B.S. is all about contracts and the jing that passes between the DOD and the corporations and has very little, if anything to do with the safety of the grunts!
Actually Bill at night you don't wear black. Especially if your enemy has night vision (which you can get off of ebay), you will stick out like a sore thumb. Even if they don't have NVGs, camo appropriate to the environment will work just fine.
As for your comment about this being all about contracts, of course it is. The ACU pattern was designed as urban camo, never intended for anything else. Natick rated it horribly compared to other camo patterns in most environments. Even Natick's UCP-D pattern isn't their preferred choice, but its all about money and politics.
RE: third picture:
The only people that walk down creeks in open country are pathetic dorks.
However we see here a photo of some dorks i.e. “the US military in action,” walking down a creek in open country.
WTF!
Can there be any question as to who is going to quickly be leaving Afghanistan?
Hint: It won’t be the Afghans.
Poor zandor. where else would you have them walk? Maybe you should be in command. Maybe to the left of the creek, or would the right side make you feel better. Yes, Afghanistan is open country. Should we plant some trees there? Your stupidity still amazes me every day. Keep up the good work showing us how intellectual people of your logic truly are, and how worthless your nature of trolling is. What good did your comment do beside troll. The logic was not there at all. Can you read what you just wrote and actually agree with yourself? I don't think so, because you would have to be a blatant idiot. Everyone on the forum, read what these people say, and when you see them protest, cry on tv, or yell in the streets, remember their stupidity.
Everything except a great Strategy! At the age of 71, I've lived to see the triumph of "Star Wars movies" type Tactics over Strategy, and I'm looking forward to meeting Saint Peter rather than another Ape on Planet of the Apes.
Osher Doctorow
As to the camo…you guys are losing me with some of the new acronyms. I was just wearing the ACU in Iraq two years ago but you all seem to be calling it the UCP (universal camo pattern I assume?). The UCP-D just has the bit of brown splashed in, right? The original ACU/UCP was damn near worthless in Iraq except at night in which case a new (un-faded) uniform worked really well I think. I haven't been to Afg but everyone agrees the ACU/UCP is even worse in that environment. I think the brown helps but just looking at still pictures on a 2D computer screen is not an objective exercise. It still gets under my skin that we carry around big black weapons that completely negate any uniform camo advantage we might have.
Picture # 1.
You just have to be kidding!
This “super well camouflaged” US killer hero is teaching an Afghan about “breaking down” an M-16 while they both bravely squat in the street?
Jesus H. Christ!
Do you ever bother to look at what you publish?
How old are you? 14?
Tell me your serious about that comment.
Note to all you dudes who think there is always a simple answer, maybe, maybe not. But it certainly is not just because someone has a liberal or conservative focus. It was a liberal government who won WWI and WWII – a progressive who beat the Spanish in Cuba but paved the way for WWII with secret deals with Japan against China, and really pissed off the Arab world they way they screwed up in Palestine. But, the reason we are still in Afghanistan and Iraq today, eight and almost seven respectively, is due to some misguided (the polite term) belief's that the US, acting mostly unilaterally, can guide to world to a western type of democracy. Who first said, "follow the money." (Note – it was during Watergate.
Finally, look back not 1-2 years but 1-2 generations. If the US had not wasted so much of the world's resources in the 50's, would we be so concerned not. Mom and Dad always had V8's, never recycled and sprayed all kinds of crap on the lawn – DDT anyone? But my dad would still kick anyone's butt who would have called him a liberal. But, he didn't trust Goldwaterr – Huh !! He and mom hated the Dems – esp FDR (for some reason – Dad got his first job in the CCC's – go figure) (Don't get me started on why Dad hated any draft dodgers)
To recap, to try to explain current evens in simplistic terms is almost dysfunctional. Do so at your own risk. But remember, it's a "free country."
WHEW !!!
Mike you FOOL.
There is NOTHING wrong with DDT.
Because of Liberal fools such as yourself, MILLIONS have died of malaria.; they could have been saved if DDT had been used to eradicate the local mosquitos.
You are an effing FOOL>
Picture# 2.
The second warrior from the right seems to be carrying two weapons, one is a rifle, the other is a machine gun, which to me looks like a bit of Photo Shop.
But then again, the macho US military carries lots of super killer equipment.
Who can tell, perhaps the trooper has a howitzer on his back pocket.
The US military is a fearsome utensil indeed.
Battery powered, and very much like a vibrating dildo.
Deep into it, and with only one way out.
Look at the photo again, you belittler of august G.I.'s, and you will see that the soldier who appears to be holding two weapons is actually slinging his own in front of himself, and the second weapon belongs to the soldier to the right.
Clean up your coke-bottle glasses and remember, 'It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!'
Are you blind, or just really that stupid? I mean, we all can see that the stupi is a given, but to not be able to tell that neither weapon is a rifle, let alone a machine gun. Both soldiers are holding they individual issue M4. Why don't you try and take a lil walk outside, I think the mold in your momma's basement is starting to affect your judgement!
Zandor, you obviously dont know what your talking about and shouldnt comment when you dont. If you were knowledgeable at on theses things you would know that in that pictures background is a HESCO barrier, which are around secure areas. Does it make you feel better to call some brave american a dork or "US killer hero"? your probably some over weight loser who stills lives with momma. that "US killer hero" does more by 6 am than you probably do in a week.
What a douche.
Zandor why a hatred of the military? These brave men help preserve a way of life that u enjoy. Such as ripping them on an open forum.
Semper fi
First recon
Corpsman, I seem to think zandor is saying that he pity's the fool who thinks the U.S. military is doing such a great job. I could elaborate for hours on such poorly trained idiots we are sending off to war,but I will instead refer you to ABC news to see the footage of a Taliban scout watching that outpost 5 days prior to it being attacked. And its pathetic when the Taliban can sit and laugh about the lack of proper security provided at that base. (which of course was being drawn down at the time, as was the pathetic excuse given by the military concerning the attack) Instead of focusing on such trivial matters as whose going to look great going home in a body bag wearing multi-sham or UCdogcrap, maybe instead that money could be spent,lets say training our foolish soldiers better?
Oh…Ssg Rod…I would keep my 6am morning mouth shut. The only thing I would be seeing that the military, especially the Army does more of by 6am is complaining about who looks great in sexy multi-cam versus lets say, pulling guard duty(wait..we hire AFGHANS to guard our outposts and major bases..forgetting that any one could be a Taliban operative or Al Qaeda warrior)or concentrating on NOT taking your squad up a creek bed to a more exposed posistion to do a photo op for ACU Vs multi-crap…but wait. I guess you, Ssg Rod are the spokesman for the super-duper insanely smart Army soldier….
Was Zandor fellaciating you as you wrote that, 7thwave?
No Zandor is just a Troll.
Don't feed the troll.
One more thing..I bet not one soldier sent home in a trash bag was complaining whether multicam or acu was more dope than the other..unless, the dope that was comparing was inside of one of those black trash bags being sent to Baghram for a silver box for the plane ride home…for one of those stars and stripes speckled funerals.
Zandor
I see you have a real issue with the military, remember it is these as you called it " US killers" , who have fought and died in the past and present that give you the freedom you enjoy. That samefreedom that allows you to sit at home and text your comments. What you dont understand is that you reap the benefits of the same people you criticize. I am a Marine veteran ( Nasiriyah March 23, 2003) and OIF II . We volunteer because we believe in making a difference in the world not just texting our support. Much love to all the branhes I have seen my fellow comrades from each give the ultimate sacrifice
thats branches you have really upset me with you comments today
umm……Aren’t creek beds and the like the lowest ground? Therefore you’re not silhouetting yourself against the ridge line. theres one!
These troopers are walking down a creek, and yet they are very very silouetted.
So I ask again just what purpose, other than producing another photo opportunity, is being served?
Umm……Aren’t creek beds, wadis, etc the lowest ground? Therefore you’re not silhouetting yourself on a ridge line giving away your postion. Theres 1
To those of you arguing with Zandor and 7thwave. Give it up. Think of it. They have the right to say what they think. It is their freedom to express and we as Fiighting men and women of the greatest military in the world, it is one of the rights that we are fighting for and swore to defend.
I in no means, condone or agreewith what they say but tack it up as their opinion and you all know what the military says about opinions, "like a__holes,everyone has one".
Don't stoop to their level. We hold our heads high and stick to our services' core values. God be with all of my brothers and sisters-in-arms!
Zandor you idiot…you looked at a snap shot with no context and immediately draw an uniformed conclusion and make an utterly stupid comment. You don't know anything about the situation and circumstances in which the picture was taken. I can think of 5 good reasons to walk in a creek while in a tactical column formation right off the top of my head. As to your last comment you are clearly a coward who simply repeats liberal talking points with no original or meaningful thought of his own. Go back to your playstation and pretend to be a soldier in the solitude of your parent's basement.
Other than getting your feet wet.
Please enumerate your five good reasons for walking down a creek.
Spare me the agony of reading that it was for the reason of hiding their tracks.
If you spent 10 days in the boy scouts I wouldn't have to tell you. But since you are so intent on learning I'll direct you to two great sources 1) FM 7-8 The Rifle Platoon and Squad and 2) the Ranger Handbook. Do a little reading, enlist in the army, spend some time reflecting on your ignorance, and tell me what you find in 500 words or less.
It’s absolutely amazing! I have watched several Taliban videos of their successful attack on the Wanat base. Their soldiers had like anti-camouflage. They were so conspicuous in their white tennis boots and other high visibility clothing it was absolutely incredible! They seemed to break every logical rule in the book regarding concealment. They were even sitting on top of ridgelines less than 1.2km from the base in broad daylight.
Even their truck was painted in clown colors. It seems to me that the coalition forces think that this so called ‘Global War on Terror’ is going to be decided on who has the latest camouflage fashion. Sexy clothing a great policy for going out night clubbing to impress the girls, but as the Taliban proved, courage and determination is more important in a soldier than how he is dressed. It’s meant to be war gentlemen, not a fashion parade.
As someone mentioned previously the Talibans camouflage is the fact that they don't wear any sort of camouflage uniform and look just like civilians, that's how insurgents work and why they're called insurgents and not an army. By dressing the way they do the insurgents may not blend into their environments they do blend in with the local populace which is one of their key advantages.
As for your comments on fashion, a good uniform is not about fashion but about practicality and functionality and right now the ACUs are not the most functional or practical uniform since it causes the soldiers wearing them to stand out like a sore thumb. Don't believe that there's a reason for wearing a camouflage uniform that actually helps you blend into your environment then let's see how well you'd feel trying to conceal yourself in ACUs in UCP with rounds going down range next to somebody wearing something more effective and see just how many rounds come your way as compared to the other guy.
No, they Taliban were not hiding amongst the population. The videos clearly show them walking around with AK-47s, RPG-&s and some heavy machine guns on tracks and ridges withing 2 km of the base. There were no 'civilians' anywhere.
I have just watched 3 videos of the attack again, and even during the battle they could clearly be seen as they stood out like dogs balls
I don't think the Taliban's attack was successful. Our previous enemies, the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, Communist Vietnamese, and a few others have had some battles that I would call successful against us, but if you call a gravely outnumbered and bad positioned U.S. outpost that was still not overrun by hundreds of Taliban fighters a success for the Taliban, than I say we are doing a hell of job and should be done next week.
Have a good day, and read your history. The North Vietnamese was laugh at you.
I don't think the Taliban's attack was successful. Our previous enemies, the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, Communist Vietnamese, and a few others have had some battles that I would call successful against us, but if you call a gravely outnumbered and bad positioned U.S. outpost that was still not overrun by hundreds of Taliban fighters a success for the Taliban, than I say we are doing a hell of job and should be done next week.
There wern't hundreds, there were at most 140, a figure backed up by the Taliban who claimed 127.
The US bought in helicopters, and fixed wing aircraft, so they have to be added to the US numbers.
And the base was abandoned after the attack for good. Also, The Vietmanese won the Vietnam war, As for Germany, nearly every other country in the world was already fighting them for several years before you got involved.
I agree with Pete in general . On the other hand , i dont believe that you can teech (or train) courage and determination . That is something that you allready have or a higher purpose maby motivates you . I dont think that there is any kind of higher purpose (exept politics or/and money) that justifies your presense in IRAK and Afganistan . The Taliban or Iraki resistance etc have a higher purpose whether that is liberating their country , preserving their way of life or just pleasing their blood thirsty god . So they have theese wining cualities .
Now about the Camo . Dont underastimate the usefulness of a good camouflage because the attacking Talibans were lucky , or someone didnt do his job . I was in an exercise last june with american army troops and i can only say that ACU , is a Sniper-party camo (almost makes you laugh). I see that UCP-D is also too much grey .
I would go the way the Brits went with a Brit-cam Multicam (or plain multicam) .
Also marpat is great but i read that there could be a problem . Even single color BDUs CB/OD/FDE , would be much beter than the curent camo .
Sorry for my english .
naqeeb afghan.say to the world that american are the big terriorst in the world the kill innecent people in afghanistan everyday.even when the great taliban dont attck them the are t eviel the eviel come to great afghanistan the world no ask we dont care about zrro power america the super power come to afghanistan but the go back to america zrro power schme and u u for so loung in afghanistan the cuontary the fight for almuss 40 yr u will be stel the loser.48 cuontary fight afghanistan schme and u world but ont thing east or west but the poor afghanistan is the best. we have the histray for thausend yr. the british no ask the big power ruissa no asg but now the terririst america no ask too.
The addition of the brown makes quite a big obvious difference, just from these photos alone. Add in a little vegetation (on the helmets for instance).
If the adoption of multicam is not going to be possible, then this a fair option. It's not ideal, but if you have to work with what you have, small incremental changes like this are the way to go.
Keep it simple, keep it cheap, keep it PRACTICAL.
Gentlemen,
The war would be over in less than a week if the U.S. dropped real PIG BLOOD from aircraft onto attacking enemy troops and every time we kill one of those bastards, we would pour pig blood on the corpse. We would need to advertise our intent world-wide (CNN) and watch the enemy walk away. Their leaders would go berserk trying to recruit new "volunteers" or get new "bombers." Remember what they believe will happen to them if pig blood is on their body when they die. "NO MORE ALLAH or HEAVEN>"
Hey Guys,
Back in the day (Viet Nam), we used a fire bomb that stuck to you like vaseline. It was really terrible to be hit with that stuff.. Why can't we lift the ban against it and really drop it from aircraft and perhaps have it packed in our cannon shells. I don't care how much the enemy concentrates on defeating us. when we start using that "jelly" on them, they will reconsider their stupid ways.. (Former Air Force Viet Nam Vett)
UCP delta is still definately still uselss if the army decides to buy a much better uniform cammo pattern ( right now they are fielding multicam) what are they going to do with the UCP/ACU? resell them? any ideas?
Pete,
You're right on in your assessment. America had better reacquaint (or acquaint) itself with the concept of protracted, multi-generational war. What America has spent in lives and treasure to free Afghanistan and Iraq from tyranny is a mere pitance of what it will ultimately cost if it walks away from those victories (yes, victories) now.