Comments on: The UAV Data Firehose http://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/ The Future of the Military, Law Enforcement and National Security Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:32:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: cburkehttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192608 cburke Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:29:13 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192608 The problem is that our technology is overtaking our ability to deal with the flood of information. We see the effects of Information Overload in the business world every day when people miss critical e-mails or important information. In the case of drones (and other security intelligence), the consequences of missing key information are life-and-death, and a lot more serious than a few missed e-mails. I don't think technological solutions are the answer, we first need a better management science for people that understands of how to deal with the flood on information that these tools are sending back to us. I wrote a short piece on this topic, any thoughts are welcome. <a href="http://www.basexblog.com/2010/01/14/intelligence-gathering-meets-io/" target="_blank">http://www.basexblog.com/2010/01/14/intelligence-...</a> Thanks. The problem is that our technology is overtaking our ability to deal with the flood of information. We see the effects of Information Overload in the business world every day when people miss critical e-mails or important information.

In the case of drones (and other security intelligence), the consequences of missing key information are life-and-death, and a lot more serious than a few missed e-mails.

I don’t think technological solutions are the answer, we first need a better management science for people that understands of how to deal with the flood on information that these tools are sending back to us.

I wrote a short piece on this topic, any thoughts are welcome.

http://www.basexblog.com/2010/01/14/intelligence-…

Thanks.

]]> By: JOShttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192563 JOS Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:09:35 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192563 "But aren’t there software solutions that can process the footage and pick out the things analysts might be interested in? I mean, the NGIC doesn’t pour over hard copies of Key Hole satellite shots with a magnifying glass anymore, do they?" BWAAAHHHAaaahhaaahhaaaa.... Ok, let me clean up the coffee that just came shooting out my nose. As a contractor and soldier (title 32) you just made my day Christian. I wish we had 1/10th of what you guys seem to think we have with regard to connectivity and "super computing"... Real life is not like what you see the actors on "24", "Alias", "The Unit", "CSI Miami" or "NCIS". I freaking wish. War would have been over in a month... we could have just hacked into the Iridum and Thuryia networks and manually caused all of the batteries in Al Q's sat phones to short out, over heat and explode when ever our petafolp crunching Deep Blues voice recognition software sensed a HVT talking on the line. Handset goes BOOM. Dead in your cave. You guys have no idea how jacked up and disconnected shit really is. ~JOS “But aren’t there software solutions that can process the footage and pick out the things analysts might be interested in? I mean, the NGIC doesn’t pour over hard copies of Key Hole satellite shots with a magnifying glass anymore, do they?”

BWAAAHHHAaaahhaaahhaaaa.…

Ok, let me clean up the coffee that just came shooting out my nose.

As a contractor and soldier (title 32) you just made my day Christian.

I wish we had 1/10th of what you guys seem to think we have with regard to connectivity and “super computing”…

Real life is not like what you see the actors on “24”, “Alias”, “The Unit”, “CSI Miami” or “NCIS”.

I freaking wish.

War would have been over in a month… we could have just hacked into the Iridum and Thuryia networks and manually caused all of the batteries in Al Q’s sat phones to short out, over heat and explode when ever our petafolp crunching Deep Blues voice recognition software sensed a HVT talking on the line.

Handset goes BOOM. Dead in your cave.

You guys have no idea how jacked up and disconnected shit really is.

~JOS

]]> By: G. La Tourneriehttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192547 G. La Tournerie Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:14:27 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192547 I read UAV Data Hose & most of subsequent responses with great interest.From 9+years of historical NASA, NSA Keyhole, Satellites, U-2, Drone overflight data recorded,via EDI,Infrared, Microwave Ground Penetrating Radar, of the distinct typology of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, W Pakistan, I think we can creat a 3-D, typographical, geographical digital overlay, sterographic 3-d map Baseline with GPs indicators of underground C&C Bunkers, Weapsons Chaches, Underground Tunnels, Foot Trails, Rat Lines. Moving forward, we can measure daily changes tp these sites by digital variance analysis comparison back to the digitial baseline created from multiple souirces listed.Box Jenkins statistics uses 7 years of statistics for 95%+ level of confidence. In light of $30.0 M-$60.0 M per day for the wars lease as many Cray Super Computers as required to store, parse, analize this massive incoming data stream. Exception processing to ID exceptions to static aspects of base line data created for variance analyis measurements.Cost is not an issue in the overall scheme of Risk Mgt. We need to integrate these disparate sources of raw UAV Data for Target ID, Target Acquisition, Target Distruction. I read UAV Data Hose & most of subsequent responses with great interest.From 9+years of historical NASA, NSA Keyhole, Satellites, U-2, Drone overflight data recorded,via EDI,Infrared, Microwave Ground Penetrating Radar, of the distinct typology of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, W Pakistan, I think we can creat a 3-D, typographical, geographical digital overlay, sterographic 3-d map Baseline with GPs indicators of underground C&C Bunkers, Weapsons Chaches, Underground Tunnels, Foot Trails, Rat Lines. Moving forward, we can measure daily changes tp these sites by digital variance analysis comparison back to the digitial baseline created from multiple souirces listed.Box Jenkins statistics uses 7 years of statistics for 95%+ level of confidence. In light of $30.0 M-$60.0 M per day for the wars lease as many Cray Super Computers as required to store, parse, analize this massive incoming data stream. Exception processing to ID exceptions to static aspects of base line data created for variance analyis measurements.Cost is not an issue in the overall scheme of Risk Mgt. We need to integrate these disparate sources of raw UAV Data for Target ID, Target Acquisition, Target Distruction.

]]> By: maxentropyhttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192540 maxentropy Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:54:18 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192540 You sum it up perfectly. Although, I would love to see more effort to map any possible patterns of enemy troop movement, etc. You sum it up perfectly. Although, I would love to see more effort to map any possible patterns of enemy troop movement, etc.

]]> By: teslahttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192535 tesla Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:57:34 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192535 I have designed and implemented imaging algorithms that detect, track, and classify targets of interest. It is not so hard to accurately find people, vehicles, and other objects. But as Nathan points out figuring out who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are is where things get really tricky. ____I don't think intelligence analysts will be replaced anytime soon. People are very well trained classifiers- we can pick up on very subtle clues that are very difficult to get a computer to recognize accurately. Nothing beats a man in the loop for identifying threats, especially with low resolution imagery that military surveillance cameras typically have. ____I think the solution is what Rob says- use software to flag suspicious activity but keep a man in the loop for final inspection and verification. This alone is a large reduction in human involvement. As software incrementally improves the need for a man in the loop will diminish. I have designed and implemented imaging algorithms that detect, track, and classify targets of interest. It is not so hard to accurately find people, vehicles, and other objects. But as Nathan points out figuring out who the “good guys” and “bad guys” are is where things get really tricky. ____I don’t think intelligence analysts will be replaced anytime soon. People are very well trained classifiers– we can pick up on very subtle clues that are very difficult to get a computer to recognize accurately. Nothing beats a man in the loop for identifying threats, especially with low resolution imagery that military surveillance cameras typically have. ____I think the solution is what Rob says– use software to flag suspicious activity but keep a man in the loop for final inspection and verification. This alone is a large reduction in human involvement. As software incrementally improves the need for a man in the loop will diminish.

]]> By: Robhttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192532 Rob Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:34:07 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192532 flagging using human monitors at time of feed is all is needed. The computer would only be used to process history & the different sources into essientially folders. Traffic, our movements, identified enemy killed captured or encountered info also sent with timestamp & location The application then would only need to reference history & infodata to be displayed in a preset map of the battlefield. From there 3D CGI Virtualize it all you want, but the basics are easily capable. Human analysts & tactical commanders could pull up locations, time periods & see statistics with known tactics used against us... flagging using human monitors at time of feed is all is needed. The computer would only be used to process history & the different sources into essientially folders. Traffic, our movements, identified enemy killed captured or encountered info also sent with timestamp & location

The application then would only need to reference history & infodata to be displayed in a preset map of the battlefield.

From there 3D CGI Virtualize it all you want, but the basics are easily capable. Human analysts & tactical commanders could pull up locations, time periods & see statistics with known tactics used against us…

]]> By: REAL AFhttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192530 REAL AF Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:26:05 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192530 shut the fuck up, everyone who knows a sliver of the intel. world thinks contracters are more qualified than the mil. theres a big difference, the contractors sell better because they can, but the individual contractor on the floor sucks. they are usually some retired vet. who is in it for the paycheck. they are fucking lazy shut the fuck up, everyone who knows a sliver of the intel. world thinks contracters are more qualified than the mil. theres a big difference, the contractors sell better because they can, but the individual contractor on the floor sucks. they are usually some retired vet. who is in it for the paycheck. they are fucking lazy

]]> By: Nathanhttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192529 Nathan Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:44:44 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192529 I have a friend who is working on the problem of image analysis and it is not an easy problem. When you are talking about telling a computer to sift through relatively low resolution imagery it is easy to have it flag the t-72 or even to measure traffic patterns but but it is much less easy to talk about differentiating between some kids playing soccer and some insurgents burying IEDs or to identify what would constitute anomalous traffic behavior. There are two ways that you can approach the problem; you can decrease the sensitivity of the program (i.e., have the software flag every group of people for further inspection) or increase the precision (i.e., get it to properly distinguish between the kids and the terrorists.) The former solution is trivial but almost useless due to the quantity of data floating around and the latter is anything but trivial. It might be very clear who planted the bombs as you are backtracking through surveillance leading up to an explosion, but this is only because you have such an obvious identifying marker as a big orange and black thing. I have a friend who is working on the problem of image analysis and it is not an easy problem. When you are talking about telling a computer to sift through relatively low resolution imagery it is easy to have it flag the t-72 or even to measure traffic patterns but but it is much less easy to talk about differentiating between some kids playing soccer and some insurgents burying IEDs or to identify what would constitute anomalous traffic behavior. There are two ways that you can approach the problem; you can decrease the sensitivity of the program (i.e., have the software flag every group of people for further inspection) or increase the precision (i.e., get it to properly distinguish between the kids and the terrorists.) The former solution is trivial but almost useless due to the quantity of data floating around and the latter is anything but trivial. It might be very clear who planted the bombs as you are backtracking through surveillance leading up to an explosion, but this is only because you have such an obvious identifying marker as a big orange and black thing.

]]> By: Robhttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192526 Rob Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:44:04 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192526 A super computer should be created for each war theatre to absorb all of this information & any documented enemy altercations. Would think these were already in place. As well as a satellite to monitor all moving vehicles as much as could. The key feeds would show truck bombs route & origins. Movies tend to show america with some vast secret underground control center with tech like this. I think it's time to start to build it. As to me , A civilian observer of this 'war'sees only that this is a war against crime. Terror is just a violent & deadly crime. No country in history has defeated crime. if we are to use tech to defeat the enemy. We must step it up now, while we still can. A super computer should be created for each war theatre to absorb all of this information & any documented enemy altercations.

Would think these were already in place.

As well as a satellite to monitor all moving vehicles as much as could. The key feeds would show truck bombs route & origins.

Movies tend to show america with some vast secret underground control center with tech like this. I think it’s time to start to build it.

As to me , A civilian observer of this ‘war’sees only that this is a war against crime. Terror is just a violent & deadly crime. No country in history has defeated crime.

if we are to use tech to defeat the enemy. We must step it up now, while we still can.

]]> By: Oblehttp://defensetech.org/2010/01/12/the-uav-data-firehose/#comment-192525 Oble Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:09:38 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=5401#comment-192525 But dear what shall they wear ? But dear what shall they wear ?

]]>