Afghan commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal is in Germany at the moment where he might need to help the government there with a bit of messaging on Afghanistan. German troops have been buying up badges saying “I Fight For Merkel,” an ironic jab at German Chancellor Angela Merkel who they say has failed to explain why German troops are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. The protest badges have reportedly sent shock waves through the Bundeswehr leadership.
The German contingent in Afghanistan has been hit hard in recent weeks, with seven dead in the last month, bringing the total German killed to 43 since they entered Afghanistan eight years ago. Bundeswehr soldiers operate under fairly restrictive rules of engagement, which has led to much griping from fellow coalition members and frustration among German soldiers.
German public opposition to the war sits at about 80 percent. The Financial Times Deutschland said:
“With every dead German soldier in Afghanistan, the calls for an immediate withdrawal grow louder. This reflex shows that the German public is still not clear about the character of the mission. The politicians are largely to blame. Since the beginning of the mission eight years ago they suppressed a realistic description of the situation… Deaths, injuries, battles and heavy weaponry — none of these suit the picture that was painted back then.”
The Canadians are due to leave Afghanistan next year, leaving a hole down in the south which will be difficult to fill with mostly American troops. Some 5,000 U.S. troops are being sent to Regional Command North, to bolster the 4,500 Bundeswehr soldiers there; the U.S. troops will fight under German command. Forced to fill gaps in the line left by departing coalition partners, McChrystal could quickly run out of available troops in a vast country where they are already spread far too thinly.
– Greg
{ 85 comments… read them below or add one }
I'm in CA right now and I can tell you they will be leaving no ? about it. They extended it once but the public dosent see the point what are the objectives what are we doing there.
And now we have a soldier on trial for shooting some taliban WTF a soldier kills the enemy and he goes on trial.
Our top guy's weapon goes off boof now he's on trail, Its a joke honestly and the public is fed up. CA will be leaving next year.
As I understand it, we are not just dropping everything and just leaving!
The afghan army is supposed to take over our operations, with us leaving advisers
and observes for awhile. You can question wither the plan will work and play politics,
but I think we’re at least trying to do the honorable thing and give Afghanistan back to its people.
I would suggest you see what we’re trying to do here; http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/i…
Its pretty much all there, from benchmarks to parliament reports.
Not all that different from the American plan really, just different views on the timeline.
As I understand it, we are not just dropping everything and just leaving!
The afghan army is supposed to take over our operations, with us leaving advisers
and observes for awhile. You can question wither the plan will work and play politics,
but I think we’re at least trying to do the honorable thing and give Afghanistan back to its people.
I would suggest you see what we’re trying to do here; http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/i…
Its pretty much all there, from benchmarks to parliament reports.
Not all that different from the American plan really, just different views on the timeline.
The problem with Afghanistan, Iraq and ANY other country in the Middle East (and elsewhere) starts and ends with one thing…..ISLAM.
There is NO WAY to ever "win the hearts and minds" of these people because they are Muslims and we are not, we are the INFIDEL. They will take our money, take our weapons and let our soldiers die in a vain attempt to bring peace and prosperity to their lands.
Don't believe me? Read the Koran, find out what is actually in there, I don't think you're going to like it. No Muslim can ever take an Infidel as a friend. It says so right in their Book! They'll smile at us as they stab us in the back. The last thing we should be doing is arming and training them. It will come back to haunt us.
We should pull all our troops out of these countries, right now. We have wasted thousands of young American lives and Billions of dollars, FOR NOTHING!!! Stop all foreign aid to them as well. We are supporting our sworn enemy.
This goes for any Western Country.
Read the Koran, educate yourself.
Tom, you really are astoundingly ignorant.
Sincerely,
A Proud Muslim
Tom said it incredibly ignorantly but in a sense he is right, but when the idea of America as the infidel has been ingrained sense birth it is a little hard to root out, I'm not saying that all Muslims in that region think that, I'm saying all the violent groups over there think that and it makes it tough to root it out when they are so ingrained to never change there minds.
Sincerely,
A Proud Marine
USMC Fearless,
You are very correct that there are many in the Islamic world that view the United States as a natural enemy, The greatest fallacy is to attribute this to a question of religion. It really is all about the distinct perception held by the Islamic population at large that US foreign policy is to their detriment. Religion plays a role in the way it is used as a rallying cry and a banner under which to fight against the perceived enemy. Naturally, the Islamic world is not homogenous and things vary to some degree from place to place, but rightly or wrongly, US foreign policy is viewed as a threat and that is the reason why the Islamic world is at loggerheads with the US. To reinforce the issue, do you see the same level of antagonism directed at China? A land of polytheism and therefore the most anathema to monotheistic Islam.
I am a former 82nd Airborne paratrooper who also happens to be a Muslim. There are 1.8 Billion of us in the world. Only about 30 percent of Muslims even live in the Middle East. Judging all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand psychotic "Jihadists," is ludicrous. Does the Mafia, for instance, represent all Roman Catholics? I think not. We're not interested in converting people to Islam. In fact, the Quran tells us that it's a complete waste-of-time. You have your religion and we have ours. But our God is the same. Anyone who would strap a bomb to the body of an innocent child to advance any agenda is an Infidel to me. Airborne!!
@Omar: hope you don't mind:
http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2010/04/q…
Read the Koran, find out what is actually in there, I don’t think you’re going to like it. No Muslim can ever take an Infidel as a friend. It says so right in their Book! They’ll smile at us as they stab us in the back. The last thing we should be doing is arming and training them. It will come back to haunt us.
WTF !!!
maybe you should read it and you will see that a lot of it is wonderful.
its is only the way how people pick up the things inside…
you are might be a christian and did you ever read the bible ?!
the 5th one will tell you not to kill !!!
go back into the past and look how many women died because of red hairs, how many alchemists got killed because of more knowledge…
and have a look what bush did…
it is forbidden to fight a war for religious reasons since years and his excuse was alway: “we did it for the holy father”, or “god is / was with us”
the stupidity of our earthlings is unbelievable to me.
so think, before you write and not every turk or arab is an islamist…
i wanna have spaceship to fly to the moon…
btw, another lie of the united states.
was a good, cheap hollywood clip…
btw, i am a buddhist !!!
namaste, rue23
Actually, the commandment doesn't forbid killing. It forbids murder.
The "Thou shall not kill" version is a "sloppy" translation.
Don't blame the Germans. I wonder why we are still there. We are not winning hearts and minds, the current government is corrupt, and Americans dying there isn't going to change anything. Let the Afgans go to hell in their own way, and live their backward lives and practice their 6th century zenophobic religion as they want. It they export terrorism, then level the place. Otherwise, if we leave them alone, they agree to leave us alone.
Afghanistan and Pakistan are not in the Middle East…let's not make this discussion another bigot magnet.
Bundeswehr soldiers operate under fairly restrictive rules of engagement, which has led to much griping from fellow coalition members and frustration among German soldiers.
+++++++++++++
I thought they operated under the same ROE as the US.
Drake1,
BW RoE are restricted more than most due to the conditions imposed by their government. Once troops are commited to an International Coalition, individual governments shopuld not be allowed to interfere with either deployments, tasks or RoE limitations. Doubt if it would ever happen like that though.
Actually they operate under german civilian rules.
They have to comply to german traffic rules and may not change their vehicles according to mission requirments because this goes against german TÜV (technical vehicle safety agency) rules.
They may also only fire when fired upon first and risk facing a civilian court at home for discharching their weapons at other people if they do so.
The budget realities in the future make it inevitable that we will have to withdraw from the far pacific. So while we may or may not prevail in Afgans this year or next, in the end we will be forced to walk away. Americans have made a fatal error giving control of all branches of govt to people who hate the idea of American power and exceptionalism. The 2008 stimulus bill permanently increased federal spending by 25% wreaking the budget into the far future. In the end defense spending will decline and the US will cede the pacific to China.
Sadly US Soldiers fight for a leader who hates them and the traditions they stand for. US military leadership, bereft of imagination and consumed by careerism, will not see that the real threats to national security sits further up the chain of command.
Germany is only in Afghanistan as a remnant of the Cold War. Otherwise it's hard for Germans to understand why they should be supporting a failing colonial expedition.
I REMEMBER THE VERY EARLY DAYS OF THE KOREAN WAR WHEN YOUNG AMERICAAN WERE SENT TO THERE DEATHS TO HOLD THE PORT OF IBUSAN SO WE COULD HAVEADEEP WATERPORT WE DIED FOR THIS AND NO LNE EVEN ACKNOLEDGED IT FOR OVER50 YEARS NOT EVEN, GENERAL DOUGLAS Mc ARTHER 29TH INF. REGT. UN TRAINED KIDS FROM OKINAWA NEVER EVEN FIRED A SHOTOUTSIDE OF BASIC TRAINING UNTIL FIGHTING FOR OUR LIFES. AT HADONG AND ANUI WE WERE 1800 STRONG AND LASTED A LITTLE OVER 4 1/2 HOURS.EVERY ONE FORGOT EXCEPT US. WE REMEMBERD ONLY TOO WELL
I would sincerely doubt the veracity of this story,
German soldiers wearing non-issue badges on their uniform? Doubtful.
The Bundeswehr is probably the only army more anal about uniformity than the US Army.
Having worked along side the professional element of the Bundeswehr, I can say they are a very well trained and well led bunch.
This story ranks more of general frustration with upstairs.
If the soldiers don't know why they're are there, then The Boss should tell them.
I know it's been….oooh…all of eight and a bit years since September 11th, but I can remember why the western armies were sent into Afghanistan.
As for Tom, Bob and Danf's rants: Bereft of imagination… yes, you certainly are.
Get out and see the world, people like you are 80% of the problem.
Uneducated, uninformed, but very happy to open their porthole and repeat half-remembered bile; spewed out by muppets who are as dumb as you are.
I hope for the rest of the planet, that better men with greater imaginations than you exist upstairs. I hope they can see beyond your petty notions of tribalism.
Despite the fact that they may not embrace US "Christian" values, the rest of the planet has as much right to a quiet life as you do,
And don't make the mistake that I'm lumping extremists into this category., we should fight that lot to the last man…and I'm including the extremists on all sides of the fence.
Were do you read in the text that German soldiers are "wearing non-issue badges on their uniform"?
Germany out of Afghanistan! We've got more important problems to solve in our own country than to bolster a corrupt government and fight a lost war.
To understand why german troops fight in Afghanistan, one has to know some things about Merkel. Merkel is a big fan of the low-minded George W. Bush who – as we all know – has a big problem with alcohol. One more point is that Merkel also is a big fan of a repressive state like the GDR. She was an official in the GDR and later she lost her privileges. Afghanistan is only a testing area for the Bundeswehr which should also fight against Germans in Germany. So all in all Merkel is about to establish a dictatorship here in Germany. Nazi Germany will rise again if noone stops the current Junta!
what a jackass
I agree…. So if Bush was soooo bad, how come he didn't establish a dictatorship here? We had to wait for Obama to do that…. And I didn't know that Bush had a big problem with alcohol, so I guess you can't say "we ALL" know… Get your news from sources who tell the whole truth, not just what they want you to believe….
I agree…. So if Bush was soooo bad, how come he didn't establish a dictatorship here? We had to wait for Obama to do that…. And I didn't know that Bush had a big problem with alcohol, so I guess you can't say "we ALL" know… Get your news from sources that tell you the whole story, not just what they want you to hear. So you are against a dictatorship, but saying your army should fight Germans in Germany? That sounds like something a dictator would do…
@German: Omfg, THIS is ridiculous! What official position Merkel held in the GDR?
He's full of it.
She worked in the administration of an academy in a kind of PR role for a short period.
The only thing he's almost right about is that her party – the CDU – has the worst track record among the four German mainstream parties in regard to civil liberties, domestic spying and such.
@MCH: She was secretary for propaganda of the FDJ (Freie Deutsche Jugend, Free German Youth), the youth organisation of the communist SED who ruled East Germany. After the fall of East Germany she converted to conservatism in the CDU (christian democratic union), think "republican" and you get the political views of that party (right winged conservative). By the way she was born in West Germany but her father moved to east germany because he worked for the lutheran church and was promoted to be an assistant to an east german lutheran bishop.
Dear German, I didnt want to post anything, but thats just too insane not to do so.
Merkel lived in the former eastgerman state, but she was never a member of the socialist party. And while she was good in her own scientist field, she su*** in the marxist theory. Yeah, thats something that each eastgerman student had to learn :) Anyway, it would be hard to believe that anything from the old dictatorship is still in her mind.
And also there is no Nazigermany rising. But there is a "return to the normal situation" every country lives. You have to see one thing about Germany. We are the bad guys from the past. We started the second worldwar in the west, we have to take the major blame for the first one and the holocaust… well… lets just say, that we have a culture of grieve here. Its a credo among many germans: "Never again".
To understand the german situation you must understand this. Germans dont like being in wars. We are trained to think that way. We thought those things were a part of the past. Risking our lifes to build bridges and streets, sending teachers and whatever is a different matter. We like doing such things. But soldiers fighting… ?
And thats the reason why for eight years now, Germans dont fight a war in Afghanistan. At least according to our goverment its a policemission. Its like Orwells 1984, we had the same in the Kosovowar back in 1998, when we dropped bombs and our chancellor Schroeder said "Its not a war!". Germans dont fight wars, because we may and want not to fight wars. Right now we see a development, where germans ARE fighting wars… thats not popular. And sometimes a german speaks of "the Nazis are rising again". So the reason for the comment of the "German" is a good Smybol for a still wounded Germany.
And thats also why we get upset about german deaths there… why should someone die in something thats not a war? We were lied to for years. Even today the official statement is "Afghanistan is a warlike situation, but not a war". Who can blame the german people to be upset about "Cops and streetbuilders" down there. Its ridiculous. German soldiers fight and then they get home are asked how many waterholes they created.
Thanks for giving us some perspective on the issue.
Who can blame the german people to be upset about "Cops and streetbuilders" down there
Meant: …dying down there. Sorry.
I am from Germany and I have served in the Bundeswehr in an airborne unit for 2 years, though i have not been on any active mission.
If it were for me we'd immediately pull out of AFG as well as the Kosovo, where the Bundeswehr is also still present, because we are not helping anyone with the current missions down there, nor up here.
What I don't get and never will is the fear or hate or whatever it is of many American people for left politics. What is the point in saying, that you can be free, as long as you do not this or that… That's no freedom at all.
That's America, my friends!
And for the rules of engagement: we have others, because yours simply suck. You don't need any rules of engagement if you simply shoot every person in your sight.
If RoE are not violated when you shoot a bunch of guys whereof maybe two or three could possibly pose a danger to your troops six blocks away with 30mm HE rounds from a mile away out of an Apache helicopter, then that's no war, that's cold-blooded murder.
The Geneva Convention states in the II. protocol, part IV. article 13:
[..] 2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited. [...]
This is not at all reflected in the current RoE applied by the US forces.
The USA see themselves as the superior power, both in strength and political system. But you should ask yourself if you want to express that superiority by bending and ignoring the rules, that your country set in your name, or if you want your country to make an example in how you act by the rules. And that is not done by calling everyone who says there's something wrong in your country a commie.
Why do we have troops in this place at all?
Very easy: our junta (of which most members are driven by a deep sentinement against the "ordinary person", a huge inferiority complex, and a large chunk of narcism) wants to rub shoulders with the 'big guys' (Obama, Brown, Sarcozy). They can just not stand a situation where they are left at the sideline of the playing field. So they send young people to die in a huge pile of sand, embezzle tax payer's money in the process, and tell cra$ about the situation and the motivation; truth and independent media as colleteral damage.
Geezus! All these European bozos need to shut up. The US has spent the last 100 years saving the world from you or for you and the least you could do is help out when situations need ironing out. Its not like any European countries even contribute that much. A few hundred or a few thousand troops and some helicopters. Hell even the helicopters get borrowed from us. No wonder Europe is being taken over by radical Islam. You have no will and no balls. The Dutch are better allies/soldiers than the Germans anyway. Ingrates. Oh the Americans will take care of it and we'll sit and eat our strudel and not worry about it. Lazy bums. And the Spanish suck to.
Is there no one who could help you find your brain? I guess its buried somewhere between your two cars, three jobs and four hundred pound of body mass…
There is nothing more to reply to in your comment. It is just plain stupid.
WHAT ?!?!?!?!?!?!?
helicopters from america, protected by america over 100 years ? i am dying laughing, – sorry !
you set us free from fascism with getting all our concentration camp doctors to your country to start projects like mk-ultra. is this how to protect the world, how to keep people in the own country save ?! you are cooperating with some fucked up nazis and not with knowledge. the guy was right in here, who told them to leave the afghans alone. i am not fine with some things about keeping and letting people in in our country, but to go into their countries to steal the oil because there is a need for huge cars, eating 40 litres of petrol in times where we have some eco possibilities is fucked up. and than telling people from other countries that they have no will and balls is weak my friend. you are fixing what we know about your intelligence standard. there i not that much, because of wrong informations and a bad knowledge about the rest of the world. seems to be that your brains inbetween just going till the check out of a fast food restaurant, where a yellow dressed up clown gives you a smile. more than 40% of your population are even do not know that berlin had a wall and some of you still believe, that we are living in caves…i am dying laughing inbetween about that much stupidity…cheers, rue23
Whatever happened to the excellent gymasium and Abitur system in Germany? Seems the best you can do is throw insults. In very bad language, maybe you should stick to German, because your Englisch is Quatsch.
I've spent more time in your country than you have in mine, I know Berlin had a wall, and I know who was there to make sure there was a Berlin. There wasn't any Bundeswehr around back then to keep the GSFG out.
When reading bescheuert pferdescheisse like yours, I wish the Berlin Brigade and British and French had pulled out, then you would have been taught some manners by your Soviet overlords.
So leave the stereotypes out of this, get back to your music producing, the world needs another Milli Vanilli.
so, if my english is so crappy, talk in german to me or show me an ammount of people in america, which are able to speak that much crappy german than i do in english.
i think it is understandable and you are trying to go away from the point.
it is unbelievable to me what image most of te americans have, wehn they are talking about germans.
we are not you puppets and our system should change like yours should do too.
we are slaves of the NWO and merkel & co are a part of it.
this is the fact and not the language and the mistakes of people they have a look at things and try to sort them out or to share knowledge or even information.
if someone has a problem in here with languages he censors people who are trying to act mybe in a good way…
also, sprechen sie deutsch mit mir, wenn ihnen mein englisch nicht passt.
i use this language since 2 years now and i think for this it is not so bad…
btw, i tought to me by myself…
how many german you picked up in you long times in germany ?!
quatsch kann jeder zweite…
alles liebe, calm down, let’s come back to the theme in here and all the best from a “LINGU-ANARCHIST” !!!
rue23
btw, not everyone in here has abitur or was at the gymnasium.
do you think, people only have the right to write with some education like this…
seperated in classes by school visitings or education ?!
*LOL* & sorry for being a primate…
‘will catcha banana now and do “uh uh uh”
cheers, rue23
Können Sie mir bitte erklären, was "how many german you picked up in you long times in germany" bedeutet??
Self-taught English? Alles klar!
And about your "dying laughing" about helicopters from America: http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStor…
"The Americans may supply up to 70 sorely needed helicopters."
The least you could do for your (Germany's) free ride is be grateful.
Lol, your German isn't better than his English.
Yes, its a weird thing, isnt it? The US are saving the world, all the time. Stopping holocausts, bringing light, democracy and wealth to the rest of the world. But inspite of that, there is almost no people on this planet as much hated as the US people. Not even the chinese. And thats really weird. I wonder why… I mean there are not many possibilities. Either the world is damn ungrateful, or the american point of view is not shared by the world.
A good example for imperial arrogance.
Bull's eye!
You also need to factor into the fact that 40% of German's population is Muslim.
In your parallel universe maybe. You're off by an order of magnitude.
Even the "migration background" share of the population isn't that large.
Go to mum and ask for another lesson in "You shall not lie!", for you certainly didn't get yours.
The State Department says 4%.
For myself I put my faith on my generation and the internet to help us overcome all the nationalism that has driven us to all faces of madness during history and still does.
The problem with the american ideology is that -in those cases when they really did- brought peace and democracy to the world just for themselves. the best example for that is: american NGO's (and it's NGO's ever since the governments of all countries and agendas could not take the blame for their moral misdeeds) supplied Hitler-Germany with fuel and other ressources to wait and see and afterwards sent their troops to liberate europe from their homegrowth. any parallels recognized yet to nowadays?
Who can recall where the mudshaheddin ("prototype" of the talibs) came from and for what (official) reason they have been raised?
I mean its not just fuel and stuff. In the whole it's about weapons. Do you all know which countries are the biggest players in global weapon-markets? It's USA, Austria and …Germany (may be not in that order). But do you get what meaning that gives to all armed-conflicts in the world? it's all about profit. the longer the wars take in time, the higher the profits will be; the more exstremized the civilians get, the more combatans are fighting with weapons.
I do not doubt the agenda and the integrity of the majority of fighters ON ALL SIDES. The problem is their view (of liberating the own country from an international invasion, which might be those of an afghan guerilla, for example) isn't shared by the officials sending them in and influencing them to the point when they forget about the rights of men..
It's not like only the Germans are left in shady explanations for the war. the americans, the afghan people as well are mislead as well because the rhetorically announced reasons for all conflicts never do coincide with the held-back and hidden knowledge that they have and especially not with their plans to gain monetary profit out of it.
There is a beautifully made overview of possible scenarios of leaving or stying available here:http://www.theafghanconflict.de/
In short: it's like in the old song: "Should I leave or should I go": If I leave there will be trouble …
bramdon, that is simply wrong.
The muslim Community in Germany has a size of about 3.5 million people, that's roughly 4.25%.
Get your facts right.
The way I see it, Germany and its people have been on and off war footing for centuries with at best decade long breaks. The Cold War immediately after WW2. Twenty years betweeen WW2 and the Great War. Franco-Prussian before the Great War, disregarding the implicit cold war between Germany and the UK. And before that.
Maybe as a people Germany is simply tired of bringing its sons home in boxes, or leaving them behind in hastily dug graves, if at all. Americans, on the other hand; do not fully appreciate the consequences of war, except for those who served and those who lived through the appropriate eras.
It´s not a fake http://www.tacticalshop.de/shop_detail.html?id=24…
First victim in war is the truth. My grandfather told me, dont listen to propaganda, know your enemy and watch out for dirty politicians.
War is not about freedom or prosperity. War is about dark age politics and profit. The money of taxpayers, my money is used to kill pregnant women and children!! My money is used to cloth young soldiers and to give them just enough weapons to be killed.
My money i spend on fuel is used by arab organizations to fund the taliban, the tribes, anarchists, mad bombers and drug dealers in afghanistan and pakistan.
So we here in germany fund everybody, so does the USA and all of Europe, Canada, Australia…
Give money fpr dirty war of attrittion, where murder, rape, torture, hit-and-run-attacks, human bombs, shelling, executions are commonplace.
If a US citizen is still proud of what they accomplished in over 100 years then look on us germans. Our younger generations never massacred people until afghanistan. Every year we remember the world war II nazi atrocities decades ago. We're feel guilty, we know what the result of war is. I visited Buchenwald concentration camp, but i was 12 the first time. Every year i show guests what monsters human beings can become in a political system, that allows them to be monsters.
We had drilled the "never again!" words deeply into our hearts and minds. Now our soldiers are down there getting killed over what? And why are we down there?
The answer is simple. For nothing. I expect all european troops to leave until 2011 or sooner. Until then our troops from the Bundeswehr really "fight and die for merkel".
I don't understand why Europe still thinks the mission is a waste. I can understand "poorly defined". I can understand "poorly managed". But unnecessary? Really? Does anybody actually believe that Europe wouldn't be targeted by extremism if they weren't involved in the War on Terror? I just can't get my mind around it.
What is your point? What is your question?
Do you think, that we Germans want to pull out of Afghanistan, so the terrorists won't target our country?
Well no. Actually terrorists were always there and will ever be. The point is, there are more people dying by car accidents on a day, then there died in all terrorist attacks the last, say 10 years.
You, sitting on your high horse called pride, think you're saving the whole world from the ghouls of worldwide terrorism, well wake up.
In fact there never ever did die a single person on German soil by a so called islamistic terror attack.
Lets just say there is a considerable doubt about the relations of terror and bringing terror to others.
Do you Euros even believe half of the $hit that you spew onto this comment board? If you do, I feel sincerely sorry for you. Sincerely. Just remember: No one loves an American until the enemy is at the gates.
yeah that's why the average german consumes more american culture than german/european culture (movies, music, literature). Not everybody who criticises american politics is an anti-american. This "with us or against us" is stupid.
In Germany there is eg a radical left winged communist group called "Antideutsche" (Anti-Germans). They hate everything german (although being german) but love the USA and defend the politics of the USA to the last drop of blood. Sounds strange but they are a very strange bunch.
Black and White are not colours. Just state of minds.
It's not that we dont like american people, in fact most american's that I've met are actually very nice and friendly. It's just that your government is so corrupt, inneficient and morally dubious that it makes you look bad just because of your nationality.
If the US wasnt completely and utterly financially dependant on being in a state of war at all times, then maybe for once you guys could stop invading random countries for bull$hit reasons and dragging us with you for the sake of moral legitimacy.
"No one loves an american until the enemy is at the gates"
—50% of the time that enemy IS an american
I repeat m previous statement about believing even half of what you spew onto these boards.
Make the "Euros" an "Amis".
No one loves America, because there are no enemies left.
on the other side of the wall, there was a berlin too !!!
;-)
you are so unbelievable stupid to me that i can not discribe it in here…
and how do you know how many times i have spent in your country .
take care with your words and personal harm against people ine here, or you will be reported.
“stupidity is not to top with intelligence”
"or you will be reported."
Once a STASI, always a STASI?
Grow up.
Once a TROLL, always a TROLL.
Seriously, you need to mobilise more brainpower to impress intelligent people than to use a primitive guilt-by-association ad hominem attack.
Only 1% of East Germans worked for the Stasi in 1990 (almost none of them younger than 40 today), and many of them did intentionally not report anything of significance.
Right. With that characteristic inefficiency the Germans are noted for.
Maybe it's time for you to try some Vergangenheitsbewältigung?
You aren't dealing very well with the present either.
The Eastern German state was indeed inefficient. That's why it ran into troubles (not as inefficient as the rest of the W, though).
Many factories had 20% more workers than necessary and its intelligence service produced a terrible noise: relevant info ratio in its files. Even some former East German top politicians have acknowledged that the Stasi was too large and mostly inefficient (hint: efficiency isn't the same as effectiveness).
the badge isnt an official one.. so who cares?!
i hope for me and anyone else.. that not more soldiers will injured or killed.
some capitalism and therewith political questions should clarify better between the armies and there political leaders. …not badges or pins or ear rings..
Islam is just like any other religion… those in control fill the masses with such fear and hate, and they don't want anyone coming in and telling or helping the masses find out different… In fact, it doesn't even have to be religion, just those in control. Does the images of civilians throwing themselves of the cliffs on Saipan come to mind? They did that because those in control(The Japanese) filled them with fear and untruths in order to control them better… In the end it always comes down to who is in control…
Anyway, I believe Merkel only sent troops there to not piss off NATO, and now is just waiting for the public to rise up enough to pull them out. Unfortunately each brave German soldier that dies there is propaganda fodder for her to further her plan… If the public wants the pullout, and NATO had requested the troops, she believes she can assume no blame, thinking she was doing what she was requested, she is in "the middle"
Actually, the red/green Schröder government sent the troops.
The Merkel government merely restructured and increased the AFG involvement.
I stand corrected, however, I still have a gut feeling about the rest…
Religion is like Kindergarten: who has the coolest imaginary friend…
i just hope my friends in the bundeswehr are allright. made a lot in some of the frontline units. –
BUCN Stewart,USN
I'm glad you're thankful for something, but what has that to do with your country emasculating itself over Afghanistan?
Your Bundeswehr troops flying in American helicopters instead of broken down German vehicles might be thankful. I don't expect you to be, and don't care if you're not.
BTW, NATO took over from the UN, not the USA. You didn't support the UN's efforts in Afghanistan, now you're not supporting NATO.
When Brazil or Japan gets a seat on the UN Security Council and Germany is on the outside wondering what happened to their seat, you can provide the answer.
That's awesome… "A" I'll have to remember that one…
So you think freedom is provided by worldwide warmongering.
Well if that's how you think, maybe the military is the right place for you.
You seem more to have the intellectual capacity of someone wielding a gun, rather than using that thing above your shoulders.
I'm sorry, but your horizon seems so limited, that you really still believe in what your government tells you to. And still after you know, that everything that started your war in Iraq was nothing but lies.
Th US is like the big ugly bully in the neighborhood. Strongest kid on the playing ground, but stupid like a dog.
Reading these comments criticizing the United States is laughable. Germany is a military basketcase. NATO has been their shield and sword for decades (ever since they failed in their second attempt to conquer Europe, to be exact).
Now, when NATO asks for their help in fighting militant jihadism (including many whom have operated out of cities like Munich and Hamburg) which threatens every nation in the world (Western or Eastern hemisphere), they get wobbly and fail to see the purpose of fighting militant jihadists. Your lack of vision is your fault, not America's.
I have served with good German Naval officers who share my views. I salute them.
As for the fat, sedentary Germans who would rather sit at home swilling liebfraumilch, and enjoying the fruits of freedom that comes as a result of the sacrifice of others, good riddance. We'll do the job with or without you, alkoholleichen.
1. Since when are the Germans afraid to fight? 43 dead? They lost a lot more at Stalingrad, yet they kept fighting.
2. Europeans have been cutting each others throats for two millenia over royal squabbles, but now they think they're a peaceful people?
3. Germany has not yet earned the right to criticize the United States. There are still people alive who have numbers tattooed on their arms.
so, all "america ist bad/good etc." left out.
the biggest problems are:
- support
– logistics (heavy armor and more helicopters are in germany, not whrere they are needet)
– support of the citicens (come on, <50 deaths in a war is incredible good.)
– better medium/heavy weapons (they are produced, but see logistics or lack of will of politicians)
– career polititians, who criticise the army to gain votes
– nonexistent airssupport
- ineffective ROE ( BW fights like they were civilians in germany), no speeding, no shooting at "civillians" with AKs. people get courtmarshaled for doing effective things (like bombing a rigged fueltruck on its way to a german base). one of the MAJOR problems. everytime you fire, you are in jail with one leg (or both)
A: this guy looks and behaves suspicius
B: wait, and observe
A: ok, no bomb, but he has a gun
B: shoot back if he shhots at you first. otherwise: do nothing.
- field intelligence (BW gives away gifts, but recieves bullshit). BND is NOT the CIA.
german newspapers (and especially the "feedback/comment" sections) show, that we DONT like muslim believs and 80% of the muslims, living here of our taxmoney.
if you want the REAL german point of view, read the comments, not the media.
No problem :)
A Muslim asks a scholar
I work in the army of a non-Muslim state, and there are wars between them and the Muslims. What is the ruling if they send me with a division of this army to wage war against the Muslims? As a Muslim, my feelings are that I never want to fight against Muslims in any war. What should I do? What is the ruling if I go…?
And the scholar replies
Praise be to Allaah.
If you are sent to wage war against the Muslims, then it is not permissible for you to take part at all. Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. Allaah says concerning one who supports the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):
“And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’ friends), then surely, he is one of them” Quran 5:51
With regard to how you may get out of this situation, and what excuse you can give to get out of this dilemma if it happens, we ask Allaah to help you, and we suggest that you consult some Muslims who have relevant knowledge or experience.
We want to emphasize to you the necessity of finding other employment and of leaving service in the army of the kaafirs, because that implies helping them, strengthening them and increasing the numbers of their fighters and supporters
– unless your work can bring some benefits to the Muslims, such as giving information and secrets of the kaafirs to the Muslims so as to help the Muslims,
or if your work is purely da’wah, such as giving khutbahs and leading prayers for the Muslims in the kaafir army whilst also advising them to avoid any work that will strengthen the kaafirs.
We ask Allaah to keep you safe from temptation and to give you a good end in this world and in the Hereafter.
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
You do realize that as Muslim you are not to be in the US military, except to steal secrets to help dar al-islam. If you read the Koran and the Hadiths, you will find this to be so.
Yeah, well and the bible says while your menstruation you shall be unclean and go wash yourself in the next river and be unclean for seven days and all that touch you shall be unclean and go wash themselves in the next river and be unclean until the next day.
Let me ask you: how often did you do that?
Actually, almost the whole Old testament is non-binding to Christians. Only the Ten Commandments are relevant.
Otherwise we'd accept slavery and stone to death people for just about everything.
There's no such officially obsolete chapter in the Qu'ran, right?
Not really, it depends on the Christian denomination. Some do believe that Mosaic Law should be applied in full.
No, there is no officially obsolete chapter in the Qu'ran. But why should there be one? My opinion is that the Qu'ran can be applied to all ages. The biggest problem is that people who do not know much about Islam fail to read the Qu'ran in context and the translations they derive are usually grossly misleading and not true to the original words. Needless to say, they also consistently forget to mention the passages within the Qu'ran that are all about tolerance, peace, and mercy.
Basically, if you truly believe that a holy book is the word of God, then why would the word of God ever become obsolete?
Well, take the example of the American Christians, for example. Some have a problem with the scientific theory of biological evolution.
It's obvious that no prophet told the humans about such a complicated thing as evolution, especially not as long as these humans were mostly semi-nomadic illiterates who had just stopped to pray to a self-made statue.
Old stories might become obsolete because different rules are best in different societies, and a different degree of complexity can be understood.
Besides, the Old testament looks a lot like a godly trial & error reign – especially the flood, Sodom & Gomorrha stories.
Or in other words; why were there that many prophets in the Old Testament if no updates were needed?
Im sorry Sven, I don't think I understood your point. Whats your point about American Christians and biological evolution?
The points I was trying to make are that 1) The Old testament is still held by a huge number of Christians to be infallible. 2) The Qu'ran in its entirety, to Muslims at least, is timeless- In the same way as the fact that one should be good is a timeless concept. In other words, I don't regard the Qu'ran in the same light as a constitution subject to change, it is a perfect book (to Muslims of course, you most definately believe otherwise).
About the Old Testament having so many prophets… I can not answer that for I don't even believe in the Old Testament in the form it is known to Christians.
The point about evolution was an example that shows how messages can be too complex/unpleasant for people to grasp.
I think evolution is by large a correct model, but I don't expect it to be found in the Genesis chapter of the Old Testament because it was not understandable for mostly illiterate semi-nomads. The "seven days" story was appropriate back then; it brought across the central message: God did it (the exact method and speed doesn't matter).
This has changed , as did much else. The societies advanced beyond the primitive justice of stoning and cutting off hands. We've reached a degree of agricultural productivity that allows us to occupy adults as jailors. The appropriate justice today is to jail thieves, not to cut off their hands.
I understand why the Old Testament had a different answer to the same problem, though. So there's a good reason why parts of the Old testament are considered to be obsolete.
Jesus' disciples were actually the first who declared parts of the OT as non-binding; especially the rituals (Jesus was in conflict with the OT with his overall message as well).
Besides; we stumbled on a point of criticism of Islam: Many (most) Muslims seem to take the Qu'ran as it is instead of interpreting it. This exacerbates the relevance of the "cruel" parts of the book in the eyes of Christians. We've got our cruel OT passages, but we went beyond them (with the 'love love love' NT).
This is probably the reason why Christians focus on the cruel parts of the Qu'ran when they write about it.
(And this topic is indeed quite relevant for AFG. AFG is also an example in which rather 'old' rules seem to work better than a full-blown enlightenment state.)
There are some things I am thankful for.
Your country selling war to mine is not amongst them.
Instead I am thankful for the fact that the last administration did not follow the American war policy and did not get involved in your countries next dirty war, bringing not peace but death to the world.
I wonder how big a lie your government has to pull, that you actually open your eyes and change something.
For **** sake, they started the war for stories of weapons which they all new were not there. And you let them. What on earth were you thinking!?