Chinese media reports that beginning today the People’ Liberation Army (PLA) will hold six days of military exercises in the East China Sea, a message, analysts say, to the U.S. Navy not to steam its carrier battle groups too close to Chinese shores.
While a Chinese military official said the drills are routine, observers say the anti-carrier exercise is intended to pressure the U.S. Navy not to hold joint exercises with the carrier USS George Washington and South Korean ships in the Yellow Sea.
Respected China analyst Andrew Erickson says the live fire training aims to demonstrate China’s ability to attack a U.S. carrier strike group and may include the first test of China’s long talked about anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM). He sees hints that China’s Second Artillery, a powerful organization within the Chinese military which operates the country’s missile force, may be at a point where it’s ready to test an ASBM.
Recent indications include the reported completion of a DF-21D rocket motor facility in 2009 and the recent launch of 5 advanced Yaogan satellites, three of which were apparently placed in the same orbit on 5 March–thereby perhaps offering better coverage of critical areas along China’s maritime periphery. Another possible indication is a recent news release attributed to China Aerospace Science & Industry Corporation (CASIC) citing Wang Genbin, Deputy Director of its 4th Department, as stating that the DF-21D can hit “slow-moving targets” with a CEP (circular error probable, meaning half of missiles fired will strike within) of dozens of meters.
I attended Erickson’s presentation at a recent National Defense University conference on Chinese naval modernization and he said China is rapidly putting into place the component parts of an advanced reconnaissance-strike complex, including launching a series of ocean observation satellites and electro-optical military satellites. An actual live-fire test of a missile would of course be a big step in ASBM development, he says.
The U.S. military has the advantage of its GPS constellation, in addition to a fleet of electro-optical satellites, to provide precise targeting for its guided weapons. Analysts believe China would use ocean-surveillance satellites to get the initial bearing and distance to an approaching carrier strike group and then launch missiles towards the target that would rely on active-radar or radar-homing to hit a carrier (that’s how the Soviets planned to do it in the Cold War days with their missile launching Backfire bombers and Oscar class subs).
Erickson says Chinese tactics would aim for “multi-axis saturation” of a carrier strike group’s missile defenses by combining swarms of missile boats (such as the Houbei Type 022 fast missile catamaran), missile launching submarines and land based ballistic missiles.
He surmises that the Chinese might be tempted to carry out a test on 4th of July because much of official Washington and the press would be busy with backyard BBQs.
– Greg Grant
{ 78 comments… read them below or add one }
If somebody could clarify, the ASBM would not be a unitary warhead, correct? I remember reading somewhere that it may be a sort of cluster munition designed to puncture the carrier deck with flechettes, rendering it inoperable.
I think it will only be able to carried out a Mission kill and wont be able to sink a carrier out right just destroy planes, weapons systems, antennas, anything exposed. Crippling the ship, and requiring the ship to return to base.
The Chinese should name that first test missile "The Bill Clinton" in honor of the man who gave them the technology. They could name the other missiles "The Loral", "The Commerce Dept" and "The Ron Brown". That last one will fall out of the sky with a bullet hole in its nosecone, but no one will ask questions.
Ha ha ha, you are spot on!!
It was actually Hughes Electronics and Loral Space & Communications Ltd. who supplied data to the Chinese after two of their rockets (carrying a Hughes APSTAR II satellite intended for the use of Murdoch Communications -i.e. FOX News, and a Loral Sattelite) blew up after launch.
But I'm sure you don't let facts interfere with your psychosis, now do you? Just keep watching FOX you stupid teabagger.
How could Bill have given the Chinese the technology we ourselves don't have? Hello, to give something you must first have it. Logic, no?
I remember quite a stink when the Loral deal was exposed. Then it sort of quietly faded from view. Who went to jail? Who's serving time?
thank god, ABLs are in the pipeline^^
1: yes gates china is clearly our friend so its ok to cut defence budgets for health care… its not like they r trying to counted act our strongest weapon…
2: i honestly have a question. like what about the aegis bmd system and other missle defences? can they stop this asbm thing? or do they just work on like icbm type things… also what is the RIM-174 missle designed stop?
**counter act
I don't know for you but I think the health care bill is a real threat for Defense budgets. I think the real budget threat comes from two wars that are fought for too long. Somehow someone did not think that maybe the people of Iraq did not want us to stay in iraq after the war against Sadams regime. It's probably the same guy who did not know that in afghanistan normal logic does not aply. And maybe some hotshots from a few banks did throw a lot of money down the drain. Maybe thats the real threat.
That said; maybe you can do the math that if you have a population that can fall back to medical assurance, that maybe that population gets healthier and that population can bring more brains into the fight….And more of them?
pleuris:
"yes gates china is clearly our friend so its ok to cut defence budgets for health care"
i was being scarcastic… i think this could be like pearl harbor; gov is getting complacent with spending and defences… then our navy gets a crippling blow… exept now the dems would just talk to china (mabye sell them hawii?)… but seriously china is threatining america…
Allright Matt, sometimes my sarcasm-radar is a litlle off, I get your point.
amen brother,,this nation does not care about its citizenry or else it would not put goofs like clinton,bush,obama and so forth into a com in chief position,,,we nned a kickass guy to slap the idiots of the world around,,,maybe even kill the bastards
Matt, with all ABM systems there is a certain % of enemy missiles that are going to get through. Unfortunately when it comes to ships at sea it only takes one to make a really bad day….
The problem is that although China may be our trading partner today, the military is assigned the strategic role of envisioning what the future looks like 20-30 years out. Those who remember WWII or are history buffs know that an Air War from Japan was the least of our concerns in the 1930s and 1940s… and we almost paid the ultimate price for that.
This article appears to be more evidence of reasons why we cannot simply rely on fighter jets or tiny tactical UAVs for everything….
China is talking crap they couldnt beat us on their best day. i would call that carrier killing missile an act of war if they test it. The president should tell china if they test that missile the US will consider it and act of War and respond, since china doesnt have the worlds largest carrier fleet,America does, that would be a direct threat.
best way to take out the chinese, is to drop some containers marked as blank TDK DVD-R' s then load some containers with the bird flu, and black plague, and drop it on RED STAR capitol.
or we can just wait till 2079, thats when nostradamus said would be the year that america defeated its enemys, and china would be one of them
Testing a missile like that is not an act of war by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you're talking about China testing their missile on a US carrier?
testing a missile an act of war? you r way to anal & stupid.
I hope your stupidity is not hereditary. Do you have any kids?
What happened to that great relationship with China Obama was supposed to give us? Testing a missile designed to destroy US carriers on the Fourth of July, a date where we celebrate our independence is hardly a sign of friendship.
obama is an al-qaeda operative mark my words he is a menace to our country…its time AMERICANS WAKE UP
Hmmm. I'd ask what color the sky is in your world, but I'd guess that your head is buried in the sand.
If Obama (or any other politician Left, Right, or Middle) had any affiliations with Al-Qada, don't you think that the Secret Service would…you know…find that out before giving him access to the nuclear launch codes?
If he were an operative…and somehow or another he already had the launch codes…why would he wait almost 2 years before using them? Why would he bother worrying about reelection?
If he were an operative…why would he try to appoint Kagan to the Supreme Court? (I'm not anti-semetic, not at all, but I would question why a member of Al-Qaeda would appoint someone that is Jewish to the bench?)
If he were an operative…why would he continue foreign and military aid to Israel?
If you stop and ask yourself some REALLY basic questions, you'd see that your concern is over absolutely nothing.
If you want to support a different politician for the office of president – more power to you. But don't waste your time on conspiracy theories….especially stupid ones.
Didn't that great ally of the US and UK , Israel , sell the chinese the technology ?
The tech is probably nothing that the Chinese didn't already have, it's not like ballistic missiles are anything new for the Chinese and considering that neither us or the UK rely on ballistic missiles for any form of ant-ship warfare it's probably nothing that the Israeli's sold to China.
The Israelis sell nothing we don't already have the plans for.
Before one becomes a top contender he must first prove himself to challenge the title holder. Now that I stated that. Who has China beaten? Last time I checked they got embarrased by there Vietmanese comrades a few years after the end of the Vietnam war. Also during there little border skirmishes with there other communist comrade the old Soviet Union. For those of you who would bring up the Korean War, take a close look and you will that the Chinese military only claim to fame is the human wave assault. How many of you would think that type of thing will be effective in these times against modern American weapons. Now my point is, they say you should never underestimate your enemy, neither should you over-estimated them.
The "missile wave" assault may be just as stupid and wasteful a tactic, but it works.
u could count the korean war as an american war cause they did do what they said they would do (push back n.korea)…
I rather err on the side of overestimating the Chinese. You mentioned the Chinese got their noses bloodied by the Vietnamese, but could you please explain exactly how we fared any better? Earth to Baba, ya ever heard of the Vietnam War?
About the Korean War, I think the Chinese did admirably well, considering they had no air cover, no mechanization, and essentially fought as a peasant army. Didn’t that prima donna MacArthur (the most overrated general ever) promise the greatest slaughter in history should the Chinese dare to intervene? A stalemate at the 38th sure doesn’t look like a promise kept to me, no matter how you spin it.
In any event, the Chinese are not gonna play your game because they know a shooting war against Uncle Sam will end up badly, for now. This ain’t the WWE or the Royal Rumble of nations. The Chinese are waging war on the economic front, and guess what, they are cleaning our clock. It’d be embarrassing to ask the Chinese to keep the lines of credit open so we may wage a war against them, don’t you think?
I rather err on the side of overestimating the Chinese. You mentioned the Chinese got their noses bloodied by the Vietnamese, but could you please explain exactly how we fared any better? Earth to Baba, ya ever heard of the Vietnam War?
About the Korean War, I think the Chinese did admirably well, considering they had no air cover, no mechanization, and essentially fought as a peasant army. Didn't that prima donna MacArthur (the most overrated general ever) promise the greatest slaughter in history should the Chinese dare to intervene? A stalemate at the 38th sure doesn't look like a promise kept to me, no matter how you spin it.
In any event, the Chinese are not gonna play your game because they know a shooting war against Uncle Sam will end up badly, for now. The world ain't the WWE or the Royal Rumble of nations. The Chinese are waging war on the economic front, and guess what, they are cleaning our clock. It'd be embarrassing to ask the Chinese to keep the lines of credit open so we may wage a war against them, don't you think?
Those **** dirtbags… This is obviously a taunt, though I give them props for their sense of humor. Hopefully it will malfunction and just add to the fireworks display
In a wartime scenario, I really doubt the Chinese capability to target these effectively. Using commercial imaging satellites to identify and track battlegroups that don't want to be found is not a setting for success – and that's not even getting into any kind of naval-based satellite shootdown capability we would have at the time.
I think the sensor package would include some kind of OHR (over-the-horizon radar) capability so they know where to point the satellites to look for the carriers. The Chinese are known to be refining OHR technologies, which are very promising due to advances in computing power. I read (don't remember where) they could have a working system deployed before the decade is out or even sooner.
However, OHR installations are huge and easy to locate. It'd be advisable to take them out before sending in our carriers.
I think people need to come to terms with the fact that much of what China does, for the moment, is aimed at maintaining their image among the people. They are perfectly aware that they are incapable of defeating us in a shooting war for the next decade or so. This is not some grand signal hinting at a new era of Sino-American rivalry. It is just a weapons test, something we conduct all the time. I think we could counter this by 1) establishing air superiority and destroying their airborne recon assets before they spot our fleet 2) blinding, disabling, or destroying their targeting satellites 3) building low observable, long range strike UAVs that can hit the missiles on the ground.
so ur thinking:
1) a fleet of planes that can beat chinas (which america has)
2) didnt they test an anti-satillite missle in like the 70/80s?
3) x47
Then US satellites wouldn't be safe either.
One strike on a carrier group should result in an all out nuclear attack on the Chinese hoards.
Obama of course will kiss China's but and bow a few times.
Obama is a clear and present danger to America and needs to be hiking down the road. We can't wait until 2012.
Yes.
Of course the US President would sit idly by while China attacks our carriers.
Wait…I remember he authorized the SEALs to take out Somali terrorists without a moment's hesitation. Also, a Republican Defense Secretary has enough faith that he has the nation's best interest at heart…so much so that he's still working in the job (as does Petraeus).
There is NO US President that doesn't take the security of this country seriously. NOT ONE. I get so sick of this jackass partisan politics that we have now, where folks can disagree about politics but realize that Democrats and Republicans, Conservatives and Liberals, and Tea Partiers all love this country. We differ in regards to how to spend various funds, and slight (4%) differences in the top marginal tax rate. Other than that, the differences are mostly cosmetic and rhetoric – yet folks think that the guy who is putting his life on the line to lead this country wants to sell it out to China?!?! Are you kidding me???
I couldn't stand our last president and I believe his politics where awful, but you better believe I slept sound at night with the comfort that he was going to defend our nation.
You'd be well advised to believe the same about the current Commander-in-Chief.
I'm a conservative but its worthless people like you that make people not take me seriously. To suggest that Obama would react by bowing if we were attacked by them is the height of stupidity. You are the type of person who wants to see Obama fail so you can gloat about in 2012. I disagree with a number of his policies but I don't want to see him or america fail. I wish you loved america as much as your love your ideology.
Does China have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them at intercontinental range? If you answer no, you are a dumbass. If you answer yes, then you are a lunatic.
Never mind, you are a dumbass.
Don't be unduly worry of Chinese ASBM. China would not use it for offensive purpose. Quite on the contrary, the US is poking her nose by sending USS George Washington to the Yellow Sea. Guess what would happened if Russia were to sent her aircraft carriers to the Gulf of Mexico and practice military combat readiness with say, Cuba?
Would US just sit down quietly? China is as much a world policeman (or at least imminent) as much as US and so is Russia
Mr Tan you are obviously a mouth piece for the communist China leadership
-China does not OWN the Yellow Sea (but apparently they think they do).
"Would the US just sit down quietly?," that what all good communist must do when the dear leader speaks
-"China is much a world policeman as the US.." that the funniest thing I've heard all week
What would the US do if a Russian Aircraft Carrier group conducted exercises in the Gulf of Mexico? The US would keep an eye on the exercise, but would do nothing to hinder it if the foreign ships stayed out of US waters. In 2008, 4 Russian warships entered Caribbean waters for joint naval exercises with Venezuela and Cuba. One Russian warship even passed back and forth through the Panama Canal. Nothing was said or done by the US who (unlike China) respects open seas in international waters.
Not to support Mr. Tan, but LeoC says "Nothing was said and done by the US" about the Russian ship visit to the Gulf. He is wrong:
In October 08 State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack said this during a briefing, ""Somebody told me that they had a tugboat accompanying them in case they break down along the way," McCormack told a press briefing, according to the State Department's website. "It was very interesting that they found some ships that could actually make it that far down to Venezuela…"
A month later, LPD-17 broke down in the Persian Gulf (and if you read Navytimes.com, you'll find that the poor ship probably will never be fully functional.)
In March 2009, Geoff Morrell, the Pentagon Press Secretary mocked a Russian Gulf-bound bomber deployment, saying "That would be quite a long way for those old planes to fly."
Bluster is certainly a useful diplomatic tool, but…it's perilous to indulge in bluster for no particular reason. But I digress. the facts remain…We certainly didn't zip our lips about Russian deployments to our backyard.
And I won't even touch the small matter of the Cuban missile crisis…which kinda was a big deal back in the day. You know, hindering the deployment of certain items…
No-one's talking about protests. Regardless of how far off your coast you think your territorial waters extend, no nation is ever going to be happy with another nation that's not on your 'friend list' parking warships within easy striking distance of your shores.
Nor is this suggesting that any US carrier crossing the second island chain would be shot at instantly from this point on, any more than anyone (anyone credible, anyway) suggested throwing more than snitty comments at the russian ships visiting the carribean.
The problem – even with things like the ASAT capability as mentioned above – is that most of the scenarios being looked at probably involve 2nd artillery shooting first. The ability to swat observation satellites is fine in theory, but unless you're going to blow away every chinese satellite in orbit every time there's tension, the risk is still there.
This isn't really a wartime weapon, when you think about it, because in an actual war situation, your CV battlegroup comes in cannoned-up and blowing away anything it likes the moment it sees it. This is, as has regularly been mentioned, an Anti-Access weapon – intended to prevent you stationing something nearby in a time of tension, because you risk losing it to a mission kill in an opening strike, and the conflict being over by the time you have a replacement in position.
Your comparing it to the cuban missle crisis. T hat is idiotic. There was a protest because they were deploying NUCLEAR WEAPONS no shit we protested im pretty sure anyone would
joseph..north korea is a threat to the whole world bud,,,,is cuba? lol
The Chinese are trying to negate the deterrent from the US carrier based battle groups to eliminate that threat for invading Taiwan. This is a very real exercise and it has a very real purpose. The US Navy would respond to any attempted invasion of Taiwan with the USS George Washington battel group, same as was done with the Kitty Hawk battle group in 1996. The Chinese want to build up anti-access capabilities in the region to control the entire Asian theater of operation. The US Navy has not really indicated how it would defend against these new threats, but anti-missile systems seemt to be the main option. There is the problem of the rate of fire for anti-missile systems and how many incoming targets they can engage simultaneously. The US Navy needs to watch the Chinese intently while all this is going on to determine what capabilities they are trying to perfect? If teh US shipbuilding budget keeps dropping, it won't matter anyway, because there will be no carrier battle groups to target by mid century!
Hold on there for a moment.
1) The USS George Bush is currently undergoing Sea Trials.
2) The USS Gerald Ford class of carriers is in design stage and slated to replace the aging Nimitz-Class carriers on a one-for-one basis.
There is NO serious thought in Washington about reducing the active Carrier fleets.
3) The US hasn't indicated how they would counter the threat because you don't tip your hand to a potential adversary. It's stupid. However, the old-generation CIWS systems would likely be able to shoot down any one of these missiles at a 1/4 mile or more away. The newer generation of CIWS systems can nail them further out.
So the heck what if China wants to show off a missile? Do we expect that they aren't going to field a military? Do you think that we aren't going to be monitoring that exercise from air/space/land/sea? It's what world powers do.
And to the folks that are bagging on Obama saying that he'd rather bow that take on China if they represented a real credible threat. Need I remind everyone that the defense budget INCREASED this year and will INCREASE next year?
Y'all worry for nothing. You don't like his politics, that's fine. But get your heads out of the sand and do just a little bit of research. There's weapon systems being developed right now (y'up, they build weapons while Dems are in charge too) that can counter and dominate the Chinese theater (other than perhaps a land war) right now.
The biggest threat the Chinese have is economic, not military. And Obama is no more responsible for that than the last president.
We should target the missile, and demand world peace immediately. Agriculture and nutrition, along with how to help humans live healthier lives should be the "worlds" focus. Curing this centuries long insanity, of humans bettering themselves at the cost of other humans, should halt. And the people who have hoarded things for grossly dishonest redistribution, should be put to a halt. The world would be a much better place to live what lives we have remaining. Bring everyone up to par, and create an actual ecological system, not a economical system designed for the few, at the cost of the many .
Better off to move away from the $12 billion dollar supercarriers that concentrates immense firepower in a few vulnerable platforms and instead build smaller, cheaper, and more numerous fixed-wing carriers of around 50-60,000 tons.
Even the RUMOR of functional Chinese ASBM will be enough for the US Navy to think twice about using their precious (and expensive) carriers to project power off, say, Taiwan in a crisis.
I sometimes ask myself "why bother commenting on these posts'" but here goes. Why do so many of us get all worked up when some other country tests weapon systems? We test them here in the US all the time. If other countries Declared War on us each time we test a new weapons system the madness would never stop.
Well put!
In some cases people should be getting *less* concerned when weapons tests are done because you keep seeing how unreliable the technology actually is…
See early US ABM tests, and pretty much every North Korean missile test.
It'll be interesting to see how well the DF-21D does, even if it will probably be a fairly contrived test.
The 'slow moving targets' comment is the one thing that puzzled me – a carrier going at max chat isn't especially slow…although it'd probably have to move fairly predictably whilst doing flight ops, I guess.
This is most probably aimed at India not the US.
If China was a normal (not Communist), transparent country, then maybe we wouldn't worry. If they weren't doing it on our Independence Day, then maybe we wouldn't worry. If China wasn't ascending and we weren't descending, then maybe we wouldn't worry.
China is more capitalist than we are, so it hardly qualifies as a Communist country anymore. Sure, it's got a one-party system that doesn't look kindly upon political dissent, but hey, we are practically a one-party state as well, and look at what freedom of expression has brought us: reams of useless talk but little actually gets done. So yeah, you wonder why we are descending? Why don't we just be honest for a minute here: China is huge, growing fast, and we are frankly afraid of them and plain jealous.
chinese politicians are dangerous,,,anything they test is a detriment to our country,,,wake up!!america
Way to go. No wonder America is labeled a paranoid and violent nation by outsiders. If you defriend america on facebook I would expect them to begin doing exercises about different war scenarios against you.
Check out the recently launched Yaogan 9 A, B and C. They're in orbits like the US Navy's early NOSS ELINT satellites used.
Wow the chinese have a missle that can possibly take out a carrere. I think that would be a definet problem if it works. Taking out a carrere would be very bad on are part cause if that works then look out china is going to build many more and sell them to other countrys that arnt are allies. Just think of the problem we will have i see where 2012 will come in here Obama needs to step up on this and take action. I dont plan on having a large scale war in my time period just yet. If that missile works just imagin what it would do to a battle ship or a city thats some serious fire power to be useing if it can take out a carrere. What ever happend to that laser cannon we have on one of are battle ships. The so called Atlanta isnt she supposed to be are missle defense system and attack system i heard that it would take out a Flet of battle ships in one shot if they where lined up.
Joke post?
I'm sure Northrop will be back on the hill lobbying for "new weapons to defeat anti-ship missiles". Start the lobbying! Let the taxation begin! Stimulate defense! Stimulate weapons! STIMULATE VICTORY! STIMULATE WORLD DOMINATION!
I guess this means the Navy needs stealth fighters after all; carrying nuclear payloads. Or we up the deterrence with salted-bomb nuclear weapons. War is hell, and if everyone topdown from Central Committee to farmer and Bribed, Whored, and Fattened up Congressman to Board Member of GD General to everyone in the Pentagon and below is also convinced that new weapons are not the way forward we'll all be happy.
If some degree of a "security blanket" is provided by having a steel ring of antiship missiles…hum. Maybe we should revisit the IRBM treaty with Russia, then deploy IRBMS in the Pacific Islands and forward deploy our own. Europe should probably stay IRBM-free in the interests of inciting Russia….speaking of which, anybody think Russia is pleased at the idea of China deploying boatloads of IRBMs? Who's the say the engineering work won't lead to them being tracked on Vladvostock, or being used against land targets in Russia proper? Or India? Or ironically enough, Vietnam, who may be poised to replace China as the slave factory of the world when Chinese factory workers ask for a raise?
I don’t like war as much as the next guy but we still need new weapons. Stagnation does nothing positive for us.
This article has all the earmarks of the US "defense" industry trying to justify the bloated and wasteful spending on the amurican defense industry.
So….was there anything published about a DF-21D test firing?
nothing, there isn't even official confirmation such missile truly exist. All this is based that fact that a new DF-21 gets paraded last year and it is simply described as a "new medium range ballistic missile". All of its spec and anti-ship ability from either speculation or anonymous "sources" or "leaks" posted on the internet and a DoD report last year quoting such sources.
From the new so far, all they did to have type22s firing C-803s and Sovremenny lead a bunch Jiangweis during some maneuvers. The Sovremenny didn't even get to fire its SS-N-22s. Overall the exercises is extremely boring.
Typical Chinese rhetoric! All bluff and empty threats. Yeah, sure.. they could try to blow up an US aircraft carrier. But that would also mean the destruction of Hainan Island, base of the "secret" nuclear submarine(s) and their southern fleet… And then there are so many other "targets" along China's coast all within range for retaliation. Without resort to all out war, the US Navy can order complete sea blockade from South China Sea to the Sea of Japan. Within months China's industries would be down on its knees. Internal rebellions would ensue. How's that for a stupid provocative act?
By the way, China's misadventure into Vietnam in 1979 still remained a sore point for their military. In less than a month fighting 100,000+ Vietnamese militia (while their regular troops were busy fighting Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in Cambodia), their 280,000 regular troops suffered more than 10% KIA, plus thrice as many WIAs. Human wave attack was a real moronic tactic against determined defenders with ample fire power. Nevertheless, the PLA declared "victory" and pulled out of Vietnam faster than one can say "uncle"….
"By the way, China's misadventure into Vietnam in 1979 still remained a sore point for their military."
- Just how exactly did we fare any better against the Vietnamese?
"that would also mean the destruction of Hainan Island, base of the "secret" nuclear submarine(s) and their southern fleet… And then there are so many other "targets" along China's coast all within range for retaliation."
- Last I checked, the Chinese have nukes and the delivery vehicles to send them half way around the world over North America. You may have a nuclear shelter, but most of your fellow countrymen do not. Another thing: most your countrymen, myself included, are not suicidal or born a dumbass like you.
"Just how exactly did we fare any better against the Vietnamese?"
- Can't you do the math? The Chinese lost in 3 weeks more than half of the US casualties after…. 10 years in Vietnam…
"Last I checked, the Chinese have nukes and the delivery vehicles to send them half way around the world over North America…"
- Last I checked, we have thousands more nukes and able to send them at moments faster than China can say 'uncle Jeff''.
1) “Can’t you do the math? The Chinese lost in 3 weeks more than half of the US casualties after…. 10 years in Vietnam… ”
Stop making **** up, “Uncle Tom”. The Chinese lost 26,000 lives, we lost 58,159. Can you even do math? Wait, I think I know the answer.
2) ” Last I checked, we have thousands more nukes and able to send them at moments faster than China can say ‘uncle Jeff”.”
How many nukes does it take to obliterate the US? Two dozen is enough to take out all of our major urban centers, and since we are an urbanized society, the damage would be huge. I was right, you are a suicidal maniac; and I hope your stupidity is not hereditary. Do you have any kids? No? Good.
Judging from the spelling and grammer that I see here, I hope we spend all available funds on National defense, cause we seem to be just pissing it away on education.
LOL Mark. Be grateful for spellcheck or incomprehension would reign supreme.
I think their brilliant one child policy will be their guaranteed undoing. They can sabre rattle all they want now, in 20 years the productive 25% of the country will be nursing ailing grandparents and parents who will outnumber them at more than two to one. It doesnt help that the mass abortions of girls will leave them at a further disadvantage. The take-away lesson is dont let your government socially engineer your population.
Well a few million extra males should provide enough cannon fodder for their military.
As an outsider (European) I don´t get you guys. You would rather have your country suffer defeat than have a president you oppose succeed. Why is that? No matter who is PM in my country, the country goes first, partisan politics goes second. That´s my two cent´s.
Because we are a bunch of thumb-sucking, spoiled, lazy, fat, mean-spirited dimwits. Welcome to the New America. We are nothing like our grandfather's generation. We have developed such a sense of entitlement that we think it's our birth right to be NUMBER ONE, as opposed to good old fashioned hard work.