Press reports say the aircraft carrier USS George Washington will make a port call in South Korea some time this week in preparation for joint exercises with the South Korean navy. Defense Secretary Robert Gates arrived in Seoul today and will join Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for planning meetings with South Korean counterparts. A joint announcement regarding the exercises is scheduled for Wednesday.
Last week, Maj. Gen. Luo Yuan, deputy secretary general of China’s PLA Academy of Military Sciences, in an interesting online discussion at the People’s Daily, gave five reasons why China opposes U.S.-South Korean naval exercises, and more specifically, a visit by the George Washington to the Yellow Sea. Admittedly, he makes some sound points.
First, Luo invokes a Chairman Maoism: “We will never allow others to keep snoring beside our beds.” (I’m not even sure what that means). Then, he poses the question: “If the United States were in China’s shoes, would it allow China to stage military exercises near its western and eastern coasts?” The U.S. should treat others as it would like to be treated, he says.
Second, when it comes to its own security, China must always prepare for the worst. “The bottom line for strategic thinking is to nip the evil in the bud,” Luo says.
Third, the Yellow Sea is the gateway to China’s capital, Beijing. The U.S.-South Korean drill area is only 500 kilometers from Beijing. Aircraft (presumably he means F-18s) from the George Washington have a combat radius of 1,000 kilometers, putting Beijing within range as well as the “Bohai Rim Economic Circle.”
Fourth, the UN Security Council has pleaded for calm and cool among all parties in the wake of the Cheonan sinking. The U.S.-South Korean naval exercise creates a new crisis, Luo says, arguing that exercises in the Yellow Sea will only heighten tensions on the Korean peninsula.
Fifth, Luo says sending the George Washington into the Yellow Sea creates an additional barrier to development of healthy China-U.S. military relations, adding to China’s resentment over arms sales to Taiwan.
Luo cites the 1994 “Kitty Hawk issue,” when that carrier steamed around in the Yellow Sea, causing great consternation among Chinese officials. He claims that’s the last time aircraft carriers ever appeared in the Yellow Sea. Yet, last week, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said the George Washington was just there in October, so somebody’s confused here.
Towards the end of his online discussion, Luo lets on perhaps the real reason the PLA doesn’t want U.S. ships in the Yellow Sea: the ships powerful sonar and sensors can monitor and map the “hydro-geological conditions of China’s submarines’ channels out to sea.”
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
China ought to reign in the NK govt. then this wouldn't be an issue.The Chinese keep defending North Korea all the while North Korea starts trouble and then tries blackmailing the world with its' nukes–if China won't help resolve the problem then exactly what do they expect the rest of the world to do?Everyone tries to talk peace with NK then they strike a deal then after they get food and fuel they go back on their word and start up their nuke processing again and testing nuclear missles and telling the world to stick it.It's about time they were held accountable for their actions and China is not doing enough to help.
"China ought to reign in the NK govt. then this wouldn't be an issue"
This.
And until this stupid little Chinese general can see that crystal clear point he needs to STFU.
I'm amazed he could be such a blatently stupid person and achieve the rank he has, staggering!
But the guy is right in a sense very few natiuons use that much double standards in thir affairs s US an on other hand as Chine owns just about very penny in your pockets they can play tough.
Yeah, but we're not an oppressive communist dictatorship. In fact we do more good for the world than any other country can attest to. We're the leader! Whenever a disaster hits anywhere, we're always the first to respond. So to say that the US can't be trusted is bullharky!
“If the United States were in China’s shoes, would it allow China to stage military exercises near its western and eastern coasts?”
This is pretty true. If there were Chinese ships within attack range of LA or NY we would be freaking out. That being said we do have other security interests in the area that China could do more to help us with (NK in particular). There is still the issue of Taiwan so even if China was totally on NK we would probably still be there to protect them and upsetting the Chinese.
The Yellow sea is international waters, and we have a right to be there.
Its not that simple ,example when russians put some missles on Cuba US nearly went Nuclear on them,and Russians had every right to have nuclear missles stationed there,while at the same time NATO had lots of nukes near russian borders.Double standards are quite an old thing .US overflying USSR with spy planes was someting that happened every day imagine some one flying military planes over US.
While thoughfull, your comments are not comparable examples regarding the matter of South Korean/US navel exercises. In the case of our missles facing theirs in Europe, or elsewhere for that matter, thoes missles were and are in thoes countries at the request of the "host" nation. And Before you go down the "we forced the missles on them" road do you suppose Eastern Europe or Tibet "invited" the Soviets or Chineese to take over?
A better example is the flights, for years, of Sovite Bear Bomber/recon flights off our east cost. We did not interfear because they were in international air space. If we don't protect our right to transit international space we'll lose that right. Based on the Hainan Island incident, China's recent targeting of Japaneese surveillance planes and China's suggestion that the US and they devide the Pacific into two areas of "influence" its clear to me vigiluence is required. Use it or loose it !!
Different question.
Would it be right if the U.S. government protested against Chinese naval exercises in the Gulf of Mexico?
Russia staged naval exercises in Venezuela; US was not trilled but that was the extent of the reaction.
Not if Jamaica were threatening china with nuclear weapons and a fledgling ICBM program.
A military exercise and stationing nukes are two vastly different things. They forced our plane to land when it was in international air space. Their subs buzzed carrier groups in international waters. The double standard is entirely on their part. The US is not going to make a hit on Beijing with 1 aircraft carrier. That would be stupid. The USSR did overfly the US often. If not with planes then with satellites. They do it now to confirm missile counts and aircraft reduction.
From public information the United States Navy keeps an ambiguous policy on the presence of nuclear weapons aboard carrier vessels. For this reason, certain US allies, such as New Zealand, have banned carriers from docking in their ports due to the US refusal to announce the absence of nuclear weapons aboard their carriers.
So, yes, this is a military exercise with ships that are most likely nuclear-armed. It’s on a different scale than merely stationing nukes.
They have Subs on our coasts right now! You think the US is the only nation with ships and subs at foreign shores. I'd bet China has subs on the western coast too!
No, they don’t. It’s hard to have long-range submarines; you need nuclear-powered submarines for that, and these require advanced nuclear technology. Many nations just stick with diesel submarines. Beyond that, China is known for having a very low-grade submarine force; with the last accident within the last two decades. Further, the qualitative difference between Chinese submarines and US submarines means that most likely the USN can harass any “trespassing” Chinese submarines out of their waters.
I’m pretty sure the Kriegmarine’s U-boat arm had no nuke boats (all diesel-electric), and yet they patrolled the east coast of the US, the gulf of Mexico and Caribbean as well as a voyage or two to erstwhile ally Japan, and vice versa. If China wanted boats off our west coast they could put them there.
Stupid thinking you are. Most of Pacific Ocean is international, but closed to west coast, when they were there, would you feel better in LA?
The actions of the PLA to unarmed Oceanographic Ships and the reaction should be a good reason to perform a true show of force. This is more than simply a planned exercise, it will
show all in the area that teh US Navy is still a potent force to be reconned with if any conflicts should occur fo rany reason. The issues of Bejing will be in weapons range is valid to a point, since ICBM's make all capitals in weapons range!!!
Good Morning Folks,
No biggie here, these statements are only for the consumption of the Chinese media. China has long been of the opinion that one carrier (battle group) in the area is a statement, two carriers (battle groups) are a problem.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
As long as the US Navy ships are in international waters then it shouldn't be a problem. The US and China are not at war the same way US vs. USSR during the Cold War, so these screamings are just like neighborhood bullies trying to show off with the weaklings in the region. Face saving is an important part of national prestige, I guess. If China is truly strong, then the PLAN should come out in force and watch the display of US & South Korean power. May be they'd get to learn something. Instead, they behave like little children and demand respects from the adults.
There is no double standard for a number of reasons.
The US carrier group and impending exercises with South Korea are in direct response to the Chinese client state of North Korea sinking a South Korean warship in international waters and murdering 46 South Korean sailors. If there is a problem with tensions on the peninsula, it is the sole responsibility of the North Korean regime and the good general's comments are misguided. It might be more helpful for long range stability had the general and his government been a wee bit more stern with the government who bears the responsibility for this in the first place.
These exercises are in international waters. The US has a long history of insisting of the free movement within international waters. There is no new provocative policy being implemented here, it is how we have done business for a very long time. The general is engaging in a bit of moral equivocation when he mentions how we wouldn't like others conducting drills off our coast. Frankly, if we were a government that oppressed our own citizens basic freedoms, and supported regimes without an ounce of accountability as they commit murder on the high seas, l would demand people rise up against the likes of us.
The good general knows perfectly well why he is preaching for 'stability', and that is because the end of the North Korean regime is not in China's national security interests. Remove North Korea from the geo-political equation, and suddenly a number of governments who stand opposed to China have a great deal of military assets freed up that the Chinese cannot oppose, and they know it.
Finally, we are a progressive representative republic that serves at the leisure of the people of the United States. We guarantee those freedoms and think all governments should be accountable to their people. The Chinese government is a corporate oligarchy with quasi communist hierarchy and is devoid of these principles. North Korea is a government that daily commits crimes against humanity on its own people, and has murdered another nation's sailors on the high seas. China and North Korea both can go @#$% themselves.
No biggie here, these statements are only for the consumption of the Chinese media.
Just as the exercises are simply for the consumption of the US media. A distraction for how badly the negotiations have been going and the impotence of the US in the face of North Korean attacks.
It is a risky PR gamble because the US is just one torpedo away from abject humiliation by the North Koreans.
Your attitude seems somewhat contradictory l am a bit confused, you speak about US 'impotence' in the context a major show of military force? Risky seems somewhat odd as well, if you're of an opinion that the move is 'risky' while simultaneously saying the current diplomatic tract is impotent, which should the US pursue? You're comments sort of cancel each other out really. Or are you just posting inflammatory trolling comments without any thought towards a logical point of view or suggestion of what the US policy should be?
"one torpedo away from abject humiliation by the North Koreans."
ok considering this is an active carrier GROUP and not one unprepared sk ship the usn is in no way close to being in danger from primative nk subs. this is the navy that protroled the worlds oceans looking for cutting edge (for the time in russia) ussr submarines. besides sinking a carrier or any usa ship would cause the us to attack nk (and win very, very fast). nk knows this thats why they swiched to threats with nukes (unadvanced nukes but what ever).
Funny. From the US perspective four of those five reasons are excellent motivations for the George Washington to do exactly what the Chinese doesn't want it to do.
The White house and military leaders do take into consideration legal and political implications when they run exercise like this in the Yellow sea. This can not be compared to the Cuban missile crisis since it is only an exercise, not a force deployment that threaten China, though it can be if needed to. He message is it shows the flexibility of the US power projection, one that is very expensively so. Besides, it is quite legitimately reasonable to conduct such action at sea in response to recently North Korea's hostile action against US allies in the region..
Good Afternoon Folks,
The current Naval exercises off South Korea were planned long before the North Koreas incident of sinking a South Korean ship.
China does far more business with South Korea then it does with North Korea. To call North Korea a PRC client state is simply not accurate or true.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
It is in fact a very accurate statement as North Korea could not survive at all without Chinese support. If China shut down food and oil shipments to NK, the country would starve to death in weeks.
The fact is U.S. will bankrupt by most called future weapons. Open your eyes, if they are not a threat, it is definitely to worry about. But more and more Americans feels uncomfortable because they are becoming more and more powerful. Follow this situation, to fight with them will become harder, and more soliders will lose their lives. Come on, does anybody wish their sons or brothers fight in that horrible war?
It always seems the US is playing in other nations' backyards because only the US has a military capable of doing so. No other country has the international basing and blue water navy the US has.
Back in the 80s, the Soviets did similar exercises nearby Cuba, off the Florida coast. Since they were in international waters, the US did nothing.
If this Chinese general was smart, he would just simply ask the US and South Korea if China could observe their exercises. In fact, he should ask if China could participate. It would be an invaluable learning opportunity for China's outdated military.
Well said Derrick. The biggest problems with the PLA are outdated equipment and outdated tactics. While the first requires a lot more time and money, the second could be fixed relatively quickly with international experience. Not only should they participate in these exercises. They should also send troops to Afghanistan and contribute more to UN peacekeeping missions.
As long as there are "bad" actors on the world stage, the U. S. is going to patrol ocean hotspots. The projection of might is to deter rogue nations from feeling free to operate as they see fit. Carrier groups are merely the visible arm of the total nuclear theater. All fights involving a Carrier are ultimately backed up with all forces who can be deployed in a relatively quick fashion. It does of course mean that all nuclear deterrents are on the table as only a last resort, because a nuclear exchange is tantamount to Armageddon and a world-ending devastated result, with 50% of all land mass directly destroyed and a full 90 to 100% becoming uninhabitable by humans and many of the other living species on the planet.
The Chinese would not hesitate to hold these kinds of exercises off the coast of the US if they had the capability to do it. It is just more hypocritical Chinese posturing and posing. I hope that the US Navy ships with their powerful sonar and sensors do monitor and map the hydro-geological conditions of China’s submarines channels out to sea. The Chinese would map and monitor conditions of channels for US warships if they could.
Hmm, somehow I missed the part how NK threatens the US with nukes.
I only got the story how some Americans piss themselves about the fantasy of being threatened with nukes.
trilled?
I'm not going to post here anymore. You do realize that the United States has arguably the world's best cyber warfare team and that the Chinese are relatively behind in this aspect, right?
…and I'm sure if that were to happen, the US would react calmly with diplomatic condemnation and nothing more. Right?
1) if you cant figure out the intended word, the correctly spelled form will go way over your head.
2) if you've already figured out the word intended, you are only demonstrating to this readership that you are a big _______.
*) exceptions made for non english speakers!
Hey!
If you got censored here, it's needs to be surfaced!!!!