Saudi Arabia plans to buy 84 new F-15s along with some 72 UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters, defense officials tell Bloomberg. Navy Vice Admiral Jeffrey Wieringa, director of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), said Congress will be notified of the sale in the next couple of months.
We reported on the pending sale last September; Boeing reps told us then that the sale would most likely be the F-15SG configuration, an advanced version of the F-15E fitted with Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar and a third generation Lockheed Martin SNIPER targeting pod.
Pentagon sources told us the sale had been held up at the State Department by concerns over maintaining Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME) over its Arab neighbors. The Obama administration wants to sell advanced military hardware to the Saudis to counter Iran’s growing power. Since U.S. military aid to Israel is specifically intended to maintain that QME, and since the U.S. is also such a large supplier to the Saudis, it’s always a political dance when making sales to either countries.
– Greg Grant
{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
The Saudis pay full price, so sell em the stupid planes.
I agree with you drake. At least they buy the planes and aren't given them like Israel is.
Btw, I'm sure the US will dumb down the planes just like Israel demands the US do.
About time we stop the double standard and start letting ISREAL stand on its own two feet and stop paying for everything they want.
Why do the Saudis need strike eagles? Are they going after ground targets sometime soon?
Soon the air force will be seriously outmatched after we give everyone else our shiny toys but are too poor to buy new ones.
They are paying for the aircraft. The reason they are likely buying strike eagles is for deterrence against Iran which they see as a threat.
I very much doubt that it is Iran rather than Israel that Saudi Arabia sees as a threat.
"Why do the Saudis need strike eagles? Are they going after ground targets sometime soon? "
they already do… there is insurgency in Yemen that the Saudi's don't want to take hold…
It is truly horrible that we sell weapons to our single greatest enemy, Saudi Arabia a country we mistakenly call an ally in the war on terror, this is a country that is spreading its evil Wahhabi ideology throughout Europe and the US under the guise of religion, spawning terrorists and supremacist lunatics everywhere it goes.
As long we're not selling them out latest and greatest tech (which I don't think we are) it's no big deal really. We once sold F-14s to Iran and once the Sha fell we stopped selling spare parts or upgrades and before long all of their F-14s were grounded. The same thing would happen to Saudi Arabia if the ruling family were ever overthrown by Islamic extremists, high-tech fighters need a lot of maintenance and if we stop providing them with spare parts and technical experts those F-15s won't be doing much flying.
Yeah, I second Riceball here. I don't have much love for the Saudis, but they are our Ally, at least on paper. They don't like Iran, we don't like the Iranian government. Realpolitik sucks, but that's the way of the world. And their whole military is maintained by reps from the companies they buy their equipment from, according to what I have read. If they were to turn overtly jihadist as a government, that support would evaporate quickly, and the techs leaving would no doubt do the same thing the Grumman techs did in '79 and disable the aircraft and tanks they maintain.
At least this way we get back some of our gas money to American manufacturers.
Oh? And what's the alternative….not working with the Saudi's, who have a shared interest in fighting terrorism? Or maybe we should invade them and occupy their land (including LOL MECCA), so that Osama bin Laden can scream about infidels defiling BOTH of their holy cities?
Shared interest in fighting terrorism that's just funny, they are the main producer of terrorism on the planet today, their core ideology is a racist mysoginist supremacist hate ideology that makes nazism seem moderate, and it creates terrorism and violence everywhere it gets a foothold. Their only interest in fighting terrorism is the terrorism that hits themselves, for the rest of the world their busy spreading the ideas that fuel terrorism.
Please show me evidence that Saudi Arabia "is the main producer of terrorism." Wahhabism certainly breeds extremism, but terrorism arises from numerous factors, not Wahhabist ideology alone.
The Saud family is not the main producers of terrorism itself, the ideology of Wahhabism is, mostly trough its finances. The Saud family has an understanding with the religious elements of its country to fund the spread of its ideology while being left to rule and enjoy their western luxuries. Its this funding that is spreading extremism and hate across Europe and the US and the world, and in turn spawns jihadists and lunatic supremacists who both violently and peacefully fight to spread an idea of society that has no place in the modern world. Terrorism arises from many factors but the ideology preached by the extremist muslims is at the core of it, and unfortunately extremism is very mainstream in most of the muslim world currently. Saudi money is everywhere
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/nation/na… I dont think their trying to hard to stop this, just enough for the gullible in the west to think their on our side.
I recommend reading the book http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Terrorists-Wahhabi-Hid…
They might have large numbers of recruits coming from Saudi Arabia, as well as a significant amount of financial support, but Saudi Arabia is probably one of the countries that has done the most to combat terrorism domestically and abroad, as well as stopping domestic recruitment.
There really is little risk. Saudi gear is, by and large, maintained by foreign contractors. Training is done… by foreign contractors. Parts are provided by… foreign suppliers.
Assuming the Saudi military went mad and started something, most of their capability would be unserviceable in days.
I say take the money.
Iran was forced to jump-start heavy industry to manufacture spare parts for their American equipment, but was aided by Israel during the Iran-Iraq war. If the Sauds turn against the US it is unlikely that Israel will be so nice a second time. I question if they have the aerospace industrial base to manufacture spare parts like the Iranians do as well.
If we don't sell them F15's the Eurotrash will just sell them Typhoons or Rafales (OK- maybe not Rafales)
Just to bring you up to speed: Saudi' have already signed for 72 Typhoons (Tranche 2)and deliveries began in 2009.
Didn’t 17 of the 19 9/11 terrorists hail from one Saudi Arabia?
Why are we transferring out latest military technology to the nation whose radical wahabbi teachings prosyletize violent jihad every day against infidels?
I guess I now know why Obama bowed so low to King Abdullah…
We are also selling F-16s to Iraq whose government has elements friendly with Iran. We have been selling technology to Saudi Arabia for some time and as far as we know no technology has been shared. Can't say that for Israel who shared our technology with China.
Yes, 17 terrorists. Out of a country of 28.6 million people. Let's do some math here….
And of course you choose the ignore the rest of his statements which are all true, this is what the Saudi swine are spreading across Europe and the US, given the 17 terrorists did not operate out of Saudi so we cant take them on that, but below just one example and I can show you many many more from both the US and Europe, schools universities, stores mosques all actively spreading this filth. We are in a war against an ideology, and we are allowing the ideology to spread its message in our countries while we fight the war, its like letting the nazis march in our streets with their banners at the height of world war 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAyrpUdx9aI
Some typos there, early morning posting and all that :)
I'm all for counter-balancing through allies, but I'm not a big fan of shipping out recon pods or ASEA radars. I sincerely hope there's some kind of oversight provision to make sure the technology doesn't get out.
I think we should sell them the AESA radars. Being that it is more computer based (only way I can think of describing), it would be easier for us to hide a malevolent program inside it. This program could be used to take down the entire aircraft.
The US is desperate for money, the arabs pay properly. So it's a win/win.
News was that the Saudi's were holding out for the F15SE', I know the Silent Eagle is still in development. Is it the case that Boeing could not meet the Saudi time table for delivery and they settled for F15SG'?
OK Saudi Arabia U want our weapons, hows this:
CUT your oil prices & aid US to deter globalwide terrorisim Or we can raise the price of the F15 to 18M per plane plus other costs for other systems by 30%.
OK.
& then we'll some to Israel for the balance of power.
Pfft, then they'll just buy from Europe and embargo the US. Do you really want to piss off OPEC? We lost that round last time…
After 'that round last time' with OPEC, the UK drew up plans that if that were to occur in future, RM Marines would simply seize the Saudi oil fields and open up the taps.
Really? I actually like the sound of that option. Did the Brits really come up with it?
Yes they did, in fact if I remember correctly General Sir Mike Jackson also spoke about it on the BBC… early 2000's.
Quote (Stephen): "Raise the price of the F-15 to $18 million per plane?" The F-15 already costs significantly more than $18 mil per plane.
Good catch. The old days of "30 million per plane" a la top gun are so out the window.
How much did the Eagles cost in the '80s?
I thought the Saudi was going for the Typhoon. This is a welcome surprise. I wonder why they didn't go for the F-15SE.
They did buy the Typhoon as stated in a previous post. The F-15SE was envisioned to sell to Japan,Isreal & Saudi but mabey (as stated above) our time line was not right for them.
With what's going on with Iran, I think they would want to get these F-15's as soon as possible.
The Sauds are about money and their oil. Theyve got to dance a fine line between doing as we like without appearing as a puppet to their own people. If the appear as a puppet the jihadists gain more sympathy from the people. Some of the bloodiest attacks launched by the jihadists have beenin Saudi. They cant publically admit it but theyd like nothing better than to see Iran blasted to the bronze age and AQ butchered. AQ and Iran are both bad for business.
It all started when those terrorists seized control of the Kabaa, and when you pin the blame on the Zionists it gets a little out of control in the end, especially when persecuted Jews from all over the world trickle into a strip of land formerly owned by Palestinian Muslims (who were probably forced to convert to Islam or be sold into slavery or die).
Suffice to say I don't think the Sauds would let Americans get away with disabling equipment before walking off the job. I was always surprised the Grumman guys were able to cripple the F-14s, but perhaps that was during the early chaotic days of revolution where they had just enough time to mess things up before running for their lives.
Back then the Iranian Army was one of the last organizations to join the Revolution, which meant that they had free access to military equipment up until then. But in Saudi Arabia, if the military is one of the first to go they'll probably lock down all foreign contractors, and swiftly secure their military equipment.
In a revolution, I wonder what happens to all the foreign non-Muslim workers (Filipinos, European & American ex-pats). Boxer Rebellion-esque situation to free them, provoking riots in certain places of the world?
cheap iran is not strong, alike iraq we was succesful war beat it,, should be saudi buy for keep our business company,, so oil bottle still expensive so why,, any store,
This is stupid, Saudi Arabia is not an ally of the US, its an enemy. No. its not at the top of our list of bad countries…but that doesn't mean you sell them weapons!
If Obama is worrying that Iran is getting to much power for the region, theirs plenty of things you ca do about it. the first…I would sanction the crap out of them, ALL US goods would not enter the country…and I mean everything from aircraft to ipods to jewelry to bread. Give it a little while, and if that isn't slowing down their nuclear dreams, then you strike them, with an Israeli lead tactical air strikes, and bomb all known nuclear sites.
So the USa imports bread to Iran? That's a long, long trip for such a non-durable food.
Bu yeah, let chinese, russian and brazlian companies supply Iran and make money instead of american companies. Im sure it will work great., and while some american companies losing money for not selling to Iran, other american companies lose money for not selling fighters to the saudis. Only the craziest neo-cons would consider this a win/win situation.
Yhe US is heavily in debt, importing much more than exporting, it's time that the americans consume less and produce more, and limiting the countries that want to buy your stuff won't help.
Saudi Arabia is like pretty much every other country and it is interested in what is best for Saudi Arabia. They are a corporate monarchy. They are not interested in the destruction of the developed world as that makes it very hard to sell oil. Given it is the keeper of the holy sites of islam it isn’t like it can just switch off the religion and within that religion is a real ongoing civil war, islams darke ages really. The Sauds can be counted on for one thing, if lran threatens the flow of oil from the gulf, Saudi will go to war with them.
It is a long standing policy, but I still don't get how making big military sales to Saudi Arabia is a good thing. Even if an Iran attack becomes something that needs to be done, I fail to see how having the Saudis do it is in our interest or how Saudi Arabia could be convinced to do so. A Saudi buy of a nuke to use against Israel and deploy via an F-15 seems more likely. That might be the only matter where they can find common cause. Similarly, what if Saudi Arabia decides to arm Yemen with everything it is replacing? That can't be good.
I likewise don't see the point in arming both Saudi Arabia and Israel to a tee, as we do now. Yet, the weapons we are selling to Saudi Arabia seem to have the primary purpose of balancing the two nations against each other. Hasn't the world had enough Arab-Israeli conventional wars to last an eternity already?
'I still don't get how making big military sales to Saudi Arabia is a good thing'
In the words of BAE, 'if we don't sell it to them, someone else will'. (better us than the French ;p)
The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a firm and loyal Western ally and has been since the founding of the Kingdom after WWI. The fringe islamist fanatics are but a small minority and such fring groups are found in many countries around the world. Sunni KSA views Shi'ite Iran (and its nuclear ambitions & territorial claims in the Gulf with great suspicion), so it is good real-politik for the USA to ensure that its faithful ally is sufficiently armed to defend itself (and its Gulf Co-operations Council partners) against the Mullahs in Teheran.
Are you from Saudi Arabia? While I agree with you to some degree about Iran, I fear that there are some elements of your government that may be directly or indirectly aiding the radicals.
After the Kaabah attack by the Wahhabis waybackwhen the Saudis radicalized. Saddam did a similar dealio after GW1.
The Saudis are toeing a fine line between overt radicalization and appeasing the west. I kind of pity them sometimes. The Al-Sauds may be our friends today, but if some other family deposes them, kills them all and compels the military to fight for Islam we could be flying against our own hardware. Iran is a example of this. I agree that they wouldn't be able to maintain the goods for long, but all they'd really need to do is hold out until oil prices went nuts and economic activity stalled, or if the oil fields get occupied switch to guerrilla warfare and make life interesting for a very long time.
In the 80's, we sold the dozens of Saudi's F-15s and the UK sold them dozens of Tornados. Now we are going to sell them 84 F-15SE's and the Euros are selling them 72 Typhoons.
84 F-15SEs and 72 Typhons is a pretty formidable force….on paper. It all depends on who is flying the planes of course. Keep in mind, Saudi Arabia has a lot of airspace to defend.
i wonder why jewish and saudi haters are blufing here while we know that saudi arabia is one of the first friend country in middle east, and we never hear any conflect in policy, and i believe that US are winning to have this deal instead of other EURO countries specially in this time of economy situation, i think saudi is more helpful and friend rather than israel the one who just ask and deplete the US economy.
The Israelis are a hedge in case rapprochement with the Arabs fails, just as we turned to Iraq to neutralize the American built Iranian Army that went from the Shah to the Ayatollah,
The government of Saudi Arabia is at least paying CASH (90 billion) for the military equipment. Israel, on the other hand, gets billions of our tax money for free every year to acquire even better war machinery. I ask, who is bleeding us in reality?
I want to know why do you guys think Saudi Arabia teaches their students to hate America? There are many international students from Saudi Arabia in America… if the country is evil then why are they here? Um because you people are insane..and quite delusional. Do you think Israel is really an ally of ours? They took most of our money and respect… Obama is trying to still maintain his respect from other ally countries. I think that if it makes the U.S. money then okay sell whatever you need… Their oil is for their people and country. There are radicals in every country… white "rednecks" from the south in America, Black rebels in African republics.. I think that you should stop blaming the religion and/or the people and see the bigger picture. Saudi Arabia is a friend… Israel I'm not so sure about…
well it creates 10 000 jobs in US.