Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak arrives in Washington, D.C., next week. And he’s coming with a list of demands for U.S. defense officials. Topping that list: Israel wants money to build-out its multi-layered missile and rocket defense shield and it wants to get its hands on advanced technology from the Joint Strike Fighter program.
If it gets what it wants, Barak suggested Israel wouldn’t oppose the proposed U.S. sale of F-15s to Saudi Arabia; although perhaps not in the numbers being discussed. In an interview with the Washington Post last week, Barak evoked Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME), suggesting that Saudi Arabia’s acquisition of dozens of brand new F-15 fighters could tilt the regional military balance.
“[W]e would appreciate it if we could be compensated and the qualitative edge will be assured as well as certain aspects of the quantity. Beyond certain point, quantity turns into quality especially when the planes themselves are extremely sophisticated one.”
Israel isn’t in a position to dictate who the U.S. sells advanced weaponry to, Barak said; although it really is. If Israel so desires, it can mobilize its powerful allies in Congress to hold up arms sales to Arab nations, especially when it’s something as big as the sale of 84 F-15s.
So what does Israel want for compensation? Barak said he wants money to erect a multi-layered rocket and missile defense shield over Israel, which has been his “vision from day one” in office. Hostile non-state actors such as Hezbollah and Hamas have turned to the poor man’s strategic bomber, the rocket, to menace Israeli cities.
Israel’s in-development, multi-layered defensive shield includes Iron Dome (which we wrote about here) to catch short ranged rockets and artillery rounds and David’s Sling, intended to intercept larger Scud sized missiles. The top layer of the shield, the Arrow and Super Arrow interceptors, are designed to protect against possible ballistic missiles launched from Syria and Iran, Barak said.
“And that kind of system that combined together will cost, in order to be fully deployed and fully protect Israel; we need tens of thousands of the short-range interceptors, thousands of the David Slings interceptors and many hundreds of the upper layers. That’s a big package.
It’s extremely successful science and technology being put together, extremely short R&D schedule. But in order to fully deploy we need some $7–8 billion and expect that in the framework of making peace with our neighbors we will be able to give this answer to make Israelis feel secure.”
As for the JSF, Barak said Israel ultimately wants “several dozen” of the advanced aircraft, although the buys would be stretched out over time. Israel wants to be able to put its own electronics warfare package in the JSF, he said, but also:
“We need of course to be able to participate in production of some parts in our industry as well as making sure that we can continue keeping our real edge which stems out from Israeli electronics and from our weapons’ systems to find the balance, an agreed upon balance between our needs and the American readiness to give us access to these advanced planes.”
It sure sounds like Israel wants some kind of technology transfer in the deal. Considering how desperately the JSF program needs an Israeli buy, I’m guessing Barak won’t leave Washington empty handed.
– Greg Grant
{ 151 comments… read them below or add one }
So we have to pay for Israel's missile defense? They may be the middle east's only democracy, but we can't exactly leverage them for anything because they are a political liability in the MidEast. Though if they are our "friends" we might as well insist on a technology transfer as well.
Letting the Israelis buy into JSF is risky as Israel has a nascent export market. They exported an AWACS to China, and after that all technology transfers to Israel become a little suspect…
Of course the Globalhawk, Pioneer, Hunter drones were technology transfers from Israel, so such things can be done, if done right.
The drone concept was originally taken from WWII germany rocket drones. It''s not new they have their own drones. Right now they have the Brevel used for survellance.
What are you talking about? Global Hawk was built by Northrop Grumman after a proof-of-concept project by DARPA. I don't know about the Pioneer or Hunter off-hand, but are you saying that if true, the technology sales to *China* are off-set by these systems? Get real.
Israel , never exported the awacs , learn your facts , and the Awacs case is a good example for how the US is demanding from Israel but never giving back
We may as well stop puttion our trust in the US , we dont want to become lliability
then we will see how well will american companies will sell their weapons without the IDF combat worthy approval
Israel also cancelled sales to china when the usa insisted. it damaged relations between israel and china for many years. it goes both ways between allies. and I don't think it was an awacs plane, it was some electronics.
Let them pay for there own war mongering, thats when we will see peace talks.
Israel is only slightly more trustworthy than China in terms of technology transfer. The current minister of defense is talking about developing a new indigenous / export fighter with Russia and India as possible partners. Might help to have access to JSF tech, no?
Dont forget that the US benefit from Israeli tech as well , so dont be so arrogant
Yeah Israel's trustworthy, remember them sharing classified military tech to China in the 90s.
Israel negotiating a fighter with russia? Please provide a source as it seems completely inconsistent with israeli policy.
Make them pay for it. Period. We do not need to continually subsidize their military with free handouts courtesy of the US taxpayers.
As far as the technology transfer concerns…Do we really want to just give them stealthy aircraft? I know the F-35's RCS is not as small as say the F-22 or B-2. But considering their willingness to act unitarily against other countries in the name of "never again," shouldn't we stop and think about the possible consequences of arming them with these capabilities?
Please stop the fund aid , so we can buy from whom we please , i am with you on that
so we may buy from whom we choose
F-22's RCS is uknown. "0.00001 m2 all-aspect RCS" for F-22 is fanboy claim and it's never was confirmed officially.
The USA needs to export aircraft and other military hardware to its allies & friendly nations, especially in these dire economic times. 84 F-15's to Saudi should keep the production line (and thousands of related jobs) running well past the 2012 closing date for F-15 production, so its a boon to Boeing, its employees and sub-contractors. Besides Saudi has been an operator of the F-15 for more than 20yrs now, so why the sudden fuss from the Israeli side, its not like another 84 F-15 will magically alter the strategic balance in the Mid East (recall that Saudi also has on order 72 Eurofighter Typhoons). Saudi is not the primary (or even secondary) threat to Israel, not by a long shot. Furthermore both countries share a deep mutual distrust of Teheran and its ambitions (regional, nuclear, religious). Iran poses the greatest danger to the region and that is where Mr Barak's attention should be focussed on.
Did you read the article? That's rhetorical, because clearly you didn't, Barak pretty much agrees with what you posted in regards to a deterrent needing to be maintained against Iran and understanding why Saudi needs to be equipped to do so.
A real misread of the Post article. Read it again, it spends most of the time talking about how Israel is preparing for a 2 state deal and peace with the Palestinians.
You focus on the word "compensation" but Barak, an Israeli talking in English says, "We would like to see in what way, not compensated, probably not the right term….better systems to compensate for the loss of territory and space that results from political or diplomatic agreements"
When Israel left Lebanon and Gaza both vacuums were filled with thousands of rockets. So if Israel is going to enter a final negotiation with the Palestinians then it must maintain a significant technological/military advantage to compensate for having zero land buffer from enemies who have tried in the past to destroy the state.
There is no mention in the article whatsoever of thinking of blocking the deal or utilizing "powerful allies" to hold up a deal to send F-15s to Saudi Arabia.
Bad editorializing.
"Bad editorializing. "
I wholeheartedly agree. The majority on here going into emotional spasms probably didn't even bother to read the piece on the Post. To start with, the term "demand" is an adjective chosen here on this site, it isn't used by Barak. I think reading the article for those that haven't would be enlightening. The FM points out Israel agreed to pressure from the international community in regards for withdrawing from Gaza and Lebanon and in return they had tens of thousands of rockets fired at them, and a blunt avowed enemy massing on their border calling for their end. It is completely appropriate for them to expect support from us when we pressure them to agree to concessions.
It amazes me how we give this economic phenom millions in military aide, subsidies, and military technology to fuel their military industry, yet they act like their entitled to even more than we already give them.
Now they want us to give them additional funds to subsidize the very costly Iron Dome (despite the IDF balking at the price). Not being content with the fact that we chose to sell them JSF fighters, (even after their past technology transfers with the Chinese) they now want to hold JSF hostage to the Saudia F-15 purchase.
Welfare tends to breed a sense of entitlement, and it's high time this country started cutting off welfare for the rest of the world, starting with the Middle East. and Central Asia.
List of demands (though I'm sure I'm missing something):
-Allow the Israelis to independently repair computer systems in the Joint Strike Fighter (so they can lift the technology for their defense market).
-$7-8 billion for Iron Dome.
-Over for peace with the Palestinians: $50 billion needed for the Palestinians and some $20 billion for Israel just to arrange in 2000 terms the essential security needs of Israel.
Barak said he doesn't think we should pay all that, but we will likely end up paying most of it.
You realize of course by passing UN resolution 181 the world is essence created the mess? Does the world, and really the US given our GDP and military significance, not bear some responsibility for implementing the treaties it signs?
Not this much. Given our current budget situation alot of things are going to start getting cut back in the next decade or so.
So everyone just gets to break treaties when it doesn't suit them in your opinion? The Europeans are in a mess financially too, would it be ok in your opinion for them to pack up and withdraw right now from Afghanistan? Would it be ok for the Chinese to not abide by trade agreements and devalue their currency even more crushing US manufacturing? It certainly would make them alot of money. Would it be ok for Russia to simply stop dismantling warheads because it costs too much?
Don't suppose its appropriate to mention the UN resolutions against Isreal? Its non compliance?
Unbelievable that Israeli Defense Minister is coming to DC with a list of demands….the gall. After selling Pollards secrets to the Russians, selling the Lavi technology to the Chinese and selling details about the Patriot to the Chinese they come to us with demands….
With friends like the Israelis who needs enemies…..
Did you read the article on the Post?
We brokered and signed the Camp David accords and in that treaty, WE, promised to provide the balancing sort of military equipment to Israel Barak is mentioning. Mostly he is asking us to abide by a treaty we signed. We agreed to the notion of providing the military grants as a means to maintaining a balance of power in the middle east between Israel and the arab governments. So for those that consider it welfare, do we, or do we not abide by treaties we signed in good faith. Seems like we are bound to stand by our word in my opinion.
This article is getting to the heart of what will constitute a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians. It gets into the security details. There will have to be some kind of DMZ type buffer, perhaps not as elaborate, but there is mention of a sealed off highway between Gaza and the West Bank. There is going to have to be some sort of robust ABM system, or non state NGOs like Hezbollah and Hamas will make any sort of treaty pointless as they rain rockets down on Israel.
So peace treaties can't be welfare?…this isn't a developing country we are talking about here. Moreover, let me know when that peace agreement is forthcoming…that is, if you are still alive.
Doesn't matter whether they are or not, if we are going to impose sanctions on Iran for violating the NPT seems like we need to be honoring the other ones we sign off on as well.
Neither the Israelis, nor the Palestinians have abided by the Camp David accords. Now we have to?
Not a history buff l see, the Camp David accords were signed by Israel and Egypt and both sides have remained in compliance.
the palestinians weren't a party to the camp david accords. that would be the oslo accords. so list what the israelis have done to violate camp david.
I recall the founding fathers warning us about "entangling alliances". This would be one of them, and it needs to be redone.
There are other ways to guarantee their security without subsidizing their defense industry and opening a leak for our sensitive technology.
How?
It can;t be true that someone can some in with demands like that I just don't beleive anyone would hvae the nerve to do so.
Almost as bad as CH when it comes to trust!
Lets see if I have this right. Israel wants money and advanced tech in the way of F-35s, or they’ll have their lobbyist hold up the sell of F-15s to Suadi…..man only in America.
I say its time to break those treaties. When the Camp David Accords were signed, Israel was a state that was threatened on all sides by enemies, and it seemed that this was largely undeserved. They were the victim.
Nowadays, they are looking more and more like a paranoid, delusional, non-secular bunch of xenophobes, and are engaging in some more than questionable behavior and activities, and aren't being very gracious patrons of the U.S. We give them technology in good faith, and then they not only misuse it, but they have the gall to sell it to our competitors. If they were a star trek alien, they would be Ferengi.
Besides, they have (and have had) the bomb. I think they can maintain the QME just fine.
So Hezbollah with 40,000 rockets and possibly now Scuds is no cause for alarm? Iran developing nuclear weapons and its president using rhetoric about seeing Israel wiped off the map is something they should ignore? We seem to be taking a very stern approach with North Korea and its rhetoric. Sounds very hypocritical to me, and the notion of just breaking treaties cuz we don't like em no more is folly.
I have no sympathy for Israel when they behave the way they do. What they are doing is virtually akin to genocide. Besides that, show me how transferring F-35 technology to Israel will protect them against 40,000 rockets/scuds and Iran's nuclear bomb, and I will retract my argument. A missile shield seems to be legitimate enough, although if they do manage successful implementation of a shield that actually works, I would demand a free transfer of that technology back to the U.S. as its an investment.
I make no claims of support for every misdeed conducted in the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict(s). I simply point out the hypocrisy of the opinions here in regards to cherry picking what treaties we abide by. We don't get to bash the Israelis and say poo poo to them while simultaneously getting ticked off with the Chinese for artificial measures in place to devalue their currency.
The F35s are part of providing a balance of power in the region. It is a pretty basic concept. They certainly could be used in the context of assisting with a credible strategic deterrence. The question of why the technology transfer is actually addressed by the FM in the interview, did you read the article and form your own opinion or are you simply taking this OP ED as Gospel without reading the information yourself?
I have read the article, and I have my own opinions based on the facts presented. And that opinion is that the more heavily Israel arms itself, the greater threat it will be perceived as by its neighbors. Israel says its trying to establish peace with its neighbors, but continues to arm itself more heavily. This is understandable, but it ruins its credibility in the eyes of its neighbors.
Ummm, lets see….they have nuclear weapons and yet they're goign to cry when we sell some F-15s to the Saudis????
This is nothing more than a shakedown, the Israelis see an opportunity to use the F-15 sale as leverage to get more advanced technology from us and some cash to pay for Iron Dome.
We are Israel's lapdog and yet we refuse to admit it……..sad.
Well-considering how well our current administration kisses Chinas' butt–while they're down there they may as well kiss Isreals' butt too.
We should give them what they want as soon as they admit to and apologize for the USS Liberty incident.
get your facts straight ricky… first of all, they did "apologize". second, and far more important. what was the Liberty doing in that warzone? they were picking up Israel military intelligence, sending it to the Brits in Cyprus who in turn sent it on to the arabs. so stopping it from doing so is logical and smart, and the US would do the same if somebody tried to play that trick on them. so there is no shame on Israel in this case, the real shame is on the US. they poked their nose in someone else's business and came out with a bloody nose. no reason to cry is what i say!
Rick, not only did the israeli government apologize, they paid a substantial amount to each of the families who lost a loved one. And this is well-documented.
If you want to ask for apologies and even compensation to victims' families why dont you consider hezbollah and its role in the bombing deaths of more than 240 Marines. We never compensated our own marines or pushed Lebanon to do something about it.
I can't believe Israel dictates what the US can and cannot sell to countries! We should be able to sell whatever the hell we want without Israel crying to us. Now they want us to pay for their expensive missile system that uses a $50,000+ missile to shoot down a $200 rocket! What the heck does Israel have on the US that makes us give into their outrageous demands? They must have some really good dirt on someone in the US gov't.
"We should give them what they want as soon as they admit to and apologize for the USS Liberty incident."
Actually they have, many times and paid compensation to the families!
Do you Yanks do that every time you blow up a bunch of civilians in Afghanistan? Not likely!
I see all the rumour mongers are out in full force about Israel giving this and that to China blah, blah blah.
How about facts, not rumours innuendos and conspiracy theories.
You can sell your weapons to whomever you like but when the Muslim Brotherhood takes over Egypt and Saudi Arabia they'll have a lot of shiny new American toys to play with.
As far as an economic basket case is concerned, I suggest you look at your own economy. You would have done better to emulate the Israeli or even the Canadian one.
As far as breaking treaties are concerned, you've had practice so why not. You sold out the Poles and Czechs to the Russians and got nothing in return…well done.
Soon you'll have your hand full with the crazies in Iran, Turkey, NK and Venezuela.
Good luck with that! maybe the Saudis can help…?
Thanks for proving the point quite succinctly; the instant anyone suggests accountability or a reexamination of the "special relationship" (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) between Israel and the US, you wave the Islamic bogeyman flag until your arm falls off. The festering swamp that is the Israeli-Palestinian mess is a geo-strategic liability for the US, not an advantage. Until Israel acts as an honest partner and truly consents to a long-term solution to its own problems, it does nothing but create more of a need for billions in military welfare the US can ill afford. At least the militant Muslims don't pretend to be our friends before stabbing us in the back, which is more than you can say for the Israelis.
And what do the Israelis help with?
ever heard of a lightning rod?? (yeah, think about that one for a couple of minutes) a lightning rod is worth it's price in gold if it stops the lightning from destroying your house. before that you only whine about how ugly it makes your house look. wake up fellow!
Israel spies on America almost as much as Russia and China and now they demand that we pay for new weapons and if we don't they will stop the sell of F-15s to Saudi. LOL! If Americans only knew the vast extent to which Israel spies on us they would think differently of the continued support for that country. Btw, when was the last time an Israel soldier fought and died along side a US soldier? Never! Our true friends are countries like the Brits and Aussies that have fought along side us and died supporting us.
I think they would have happily shot back at Hussein, but we asked them not to. Do you honestly think it is possible for the Israelis to deploy to any combat theater we are in? Cmon, what is the color of the sky on your planet?
Don;'t forget and Canada!
Let's give Israel the F-35's, and in return they give East Jerusalem and the West Bank to the Palestinians.
That very well could be what happens.
Sure! So called 'East Jerusalem' is 60+ percent Jewish owned and lived in. The so called 'West Bank' is not as big as Metropolitan Kansas City (7,952 sq. mi. or 20,596 km² vs 5,878 km² for Judea and Samaria) and has a half million Jews living there. To move the people there would cost more than $3 trillion – yeah! That's a 'T' 'trillion' – to move the Jewish inhabitants and their businesses out of their historical – Biblical – homeland. The Arabs, on the other hand, would cost just a few Billion to move.
I agree, facts are better than conspiracies. First of all, if any distasteful regime took over an ally with F-15s (Saudi Arabia), we would do the same as we did to Iran–cease the export of replacement parts, and those high performance aircraft would soon be grounded (just like Iran's F-14s). Second, the Saudis lack the pilots to even fill the cockpits of their Eurofighters and and F-15s. Third, Israel has in fact sold American-derived technology to the Chinese–whether it was secret is up for debate. Fourth, their Iron Dome system may hold promise, but if they plan on shooting down hundreds of rockets at once, they need something more economical.
I support Israel in principle, although less so lately, but I really do hope the White House does not budge on this issue. The Israelis are really starting to cross the line. We unilaterally support them and then they pull ridiculous stunts like this. Can you blame them? No, they are exploiting an advantageous position. Is it time to reverse that trend? I think so.
Bibi was right, the U.S. is pathetically easy to control and it's embarrassing how many of our citizens leap to its defense no matter what the circumstance. Unless and until our Congress is cleansed of AIPAC drones and their filthy payoffs, we will never be rid of the entanglements and headaches produced by this godforsaken desert ****hole. Israel spies on us, gives our tech to our enemies, holds us hostage for billions in free "aid," flaunts the construction of contentious settlements, and all but laughs in our faces about it both publicly and certainly privately, as seen in Bibi's greatest hits video. Let God protect the Israelis, I'm sick of footing the bill for security walls and hellish Arab ghettos.
What a pile of unmitigated drivel.
You want to see a **** hole, soldier, try Iraq or Afghanistan or Damascus.
You are controled, but not by israel and tou just don’t get.
Thye saudis and their Wahabi influence in the US has got you by the balls and you’re too dumb to realize it.
And why not when you can blame Israel and lets face it the Jews for your problems.
The day is rapidly approaching when Israel will say to you “so long and thanks for all the fish”.
All the billions you’ve given Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians…and what have you got in return…does 9/11 sound familiar?
“hellish Arab ghettos” what a joke…try visiting the west bank or Gaza where health care, infant mortality and living standards are better than your NATO ally, Turkey.
That statement alone disqualifies your comment as meaningful or credible!
Amen. Israel is rapidly becoming the new France: there when it needs you!
Amen Yes Sir…Amen…..
When they (Israel) say want money did they mean want to ask for a loan money? Just sayen…because we already gave too much freebees.
What they are saying is that if the international community expects them to make more concessions in terms of territory, air space, and Jerusalem, they expect some help in return in deploying security assets that keep them safe. Pretty much same kinda deal any nation would expect really, say like the US expecting the Iranians to halt enrichment, or the North Koreans to stand down it's nuclear program. Before we give something up we expect something in return if we are taking a security risk.
Reading the comments one start to wonder if the main part of commentators have the vaguest interest in the defense establishment and US policy or are just obsessed with thrashing anything and anyone outside the US.
Lets get one thing right. To be able to influence the world and keep the US strong we need allies. Israel is as good as it gets when it comes to allies. There is no more efficient way to have Israel push the American agenda than by being a strong military partner to Israel.
Those arguing that only Israel benefits from this deal, get real. If you don't agree by the most fundamental argument that we should support the only democracy in the Middle east, i.e. Israel, then lets look at the lets look at some major strategic benefits:
- Bunch of jihadists focusing their energy on the little satan (Israel) instead of big satan (USA)
- Israel providing top class intelligence on the muslim world
- Military tech from Israel in the US military, just look at air force helmet gear etc.
- The money we pay Israel comes straight back to US military industries which in turns keeps our tech on top while increasing profibility and volume.
Argue with facts instead of mere statements and the comments section might be worth reading again.
BR,
Andy
"Israel is as good as it gets when it comes to allies"
How many times have the British entered in action shoulder to shoulder with the Americans? Perhaps the British should pull out of Afghanistan immediately and let forever-faithful ally Israel fill the gap now and in future?
The Brits are excellent allies just as the Israelis, no doubt about it. The common ground is obvious, what is good for the US is in most often good for the Brits and the Israelis. If nothing else one can just see how al-Qaida have attacked the US, UK and Israel.
On a second note it seems the Israelis are doing a pretty good job fighting the al-Qaida cells in Gaza already.
And naturally you are not serious when suggesting that the Israelis should take part in the war effort in Afghanistan considering what allies we are depending on in the region, such as the islamist state of Pakistan with no official ties to Israel. If we actually did invite the Israelis to take part in Afghanistan there is no doubt they would. al-Qaida is a bigger threat to Israel than it is to us.
Of course I am not serious about Israel taking part in the war effort in Afghanistan! I am fully aware of the reppurcussions if that were to happen. My comments were aimed at your statement regarding allies and Israel being as good as it gets. I loath that statement, it casts a deep shadow over the sacrafices of other nations that stand shoulder to shoulder with the US and ask for far less than Israel.
No way–I'd rather have our best friends of British and Australian troops fighting side by side with us-we know we can ALWAYS count on them.
that's a good idea. the war would be over very soon….. too bad the US-arab "allies" Obama bows down to won't allow this to happen under threat of not selling any more oil to ever thirsty USA. man, if you don't knwo anything about global politics don't waste your time on typing things that prove your ignorance.
Billy, just who are you directing your comments at?
dont forget when Israel wanted to strike in Iraq in the first gulf war the US begged us to stay behind
Proving what exactly? That antipathy against Israel is so widespread that the US has been forced to cover for them or pay them off (and supply them with Patriot batteries) just to not enrage and galvanize their many enemies even further? You'd be better off questioning why Israel is such a pariah that they can't even be a useful client state in times of need. I wonder if we begged them to stop spying on us what they might demand in return for such an act of largess…
First of all, there is a TREATY OF ALLIANCE between the US and Britain through NATO. But there is NO treaty of alliance between the US and Israel. The US did not want to give Israel such a treaty, which is why Israel had to go nuclear in the first place.
But where were US troops in 1948 when israel was attacked by 7 Arab armies? Of in 1956, 1967, or in 1973. I don't recall any US armies coming to help Israel in its wars. I recall US armies going to defend South Korea, South Vietnam, Kuwait, etc.
And when Britain stood alone against the Nazis in 1940, we weren't selling arms to the Nazis. But we were sending aid to Britain. So yes, we do send aid to Israel, but it's only 1/3rd of what we sell in arms to Israel's enemies that surround it. I suspect there are reasons why the US government doesn't trumpet the fact that it sells the Arabs three times as much arms, and that it gives Egypt and the Palestinians as much aid as it gives to Israel. Unfortunately, ignorance of the facts doesn't change the facts. The US has been playing both sides of this fence for 40 years, while falsely claiming it is ISrael's "ally."
"There is no more efficient way to have Israel push the American agenda than by being a strong military partner to Israel."
Israel is pushing the American agenda? Are you kidding? America is merely enabling the Israeli agenda with money, arms, intelligence, UN votes/abstentions, etc by bending over a barrel for every Zionist demand. When our aims coincide, they will happily throw us a bone, and why not? We pay so well.
"Bunch of jihadists focusing their energy on the little satan (Israel) instead of big satan (USA)"
Yeah, no Jihadi has ever made the connection between the US/Israeli relationship and the justification for violence against US interests, right? Is that the ghost of Bush's claim that we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here being resurrected yet again? When you understand that Israel creates radicals instead of "tying down their forces" you may see why the US doesn't benefit at all in the way you claim.
"Israel providing top class intelligence on the muslim world"
…while gathering intelligence inside the US at a rate that would make Krushchev blush…
"Military tech from Israel in the US military, just look at air force helmet gear etc"
Too true, but we pay for the arms or the contracts to produce them here, as with many other arms suppliers not named Israel. They want special treatment because they sell us arms? What about the money we supply for R&D on such arms we later buy?
"The money we pay Israel comes straight back to US military industries which in turns keeps our tech on top while increasing profibility and volume."
Translation: There is a highly profitable wealth distribution scheme from taxpayer pockets to bloated, politically connected defense firms run by retired generals and senators feeding at the quid pro quo trough. The corruption of our Congress for some petty lucre may be a great deal to you, but I'd prefer another path, thanks.
The benefits of floating the only democracy in the ME are not inexhaustible, and many Americans are beginning to see Israel as more of a liability than an asset. Cry about it all you want, but you can't demand the other side of the ledger not be given equal consideration.
By your ways of quoting I'll do the same.
"Yeah, no Jihadi has ever made the connection between the US/Israeli relationship and the justification for violence against US interests, right? Is that the ghost of Bush's claim that we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here being resurrected yet again? When you understand that Israel creates radicals instead of "tying down their forces" you may see why the US doesn't benefit at all in the way you claim."
Naturally the jihadists see a strong connection between us and Israel. But do you seriously think the Saudis, Pakistanis et. al will start loving us if we'd denounce Israel. Naturally not, they would hate us just as much. It can be hell supporting the most hated kid in the Middle East (Israel) but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
As for wealth distribution I'd rather have retired military personnel and politicians making questionable profits at times if that's what it takes to have a kick-ass military and tech. If you have the solution to a better system keeping us on top of the Chinese and the Russians I'd be happy to hear it.
I guess Israeli espionage directed at its "best ally" doesn't fit your narrative, eh? Your rugs must be bulging with all the unfortunate truths you sweep under them. What about Bibi's own words which call your unquestioning, unceasing support "absurd?" It comes out of the horse's mouth, yet all I see on these boards are herculean acts of cognitive dissonance from useful idiots clamoring to downvote any mention of squirm-inducing facts.
Making the Pakis or the Saudis love us isn't my aim, it's removing a highly useful rhetorical tool from the repertoire of countless jihiadi and radical recruiters. American hypocrisy and the flagrant double standard vis a vis Israel is simply too destructive to our stated goals in the current conflicts, and the militant Muslims aren't too stupid to recognize and utilize the fact in any way possible. Israel makes our job that much harder.
So you're saying corruption and an unethical linkage between defense lobbyists, the military, and our Congressional leadership is in fact a necessary component to making effective weapons? We couldn't stay in front of the Chinese or Russians without operating a system of kickbacks/payoffs/guaranteed employment between the public and private spheres in a way which destroys transparency and fuels absurd procurement decisions, waste, overruns, etc? I have no doubt you really do need me to supply you with an alternative arrangement, but I have serious doubts you would be "happy to hear it."
You are dancing around the point. Terror / Insurgent groups are almost universally comprised of a *minority* of hardcores, and a majority of what our military leaders call the "accidental insurgent". Israel keeps Hamas busy, sure, but creates these coincidental insurgents at a geometric rate.
Fighting terrorism is not a conventional fight. It is a fight against a propaganda machine. Israel's overly aggressive strategies are shooting us in the foot.
You supply those funds to control the weapons trade , so dont be so modest
The ISraeli US relations is far better to the US than to Israel , remember the fact that we managed very well until the US stated to meddle in the middle east
Please, do share how the scales balance out in favor of the US…maybe Jonathan Pollard and Ben-ami Kadish left behind some briefcases with $100+ billion inside?
If you were doing so well before we became your lapdog, you should have no qualms with us leaving you in peace in your chosen peoples' paradise. I'm pretty sure we could pay the Chinese to spy on us and eliminate Israel's role as the middle man; it would have to be cheaper than the deal we've currently got.
Andy, the main reason there are a bunch of Jihadists in the first place is Israel was forcibly created in the Middle East and occupies and continues to settle territory obtained in wars in violation of International Law. The Israeli vs Palestinian conflict is one of the perceived injustices that fuels Jihadism.
You're wrong on every point in that list…..
Israel was not forcibly created, it was created by a resolution discussed at the UN. They helped the British defeat the Ottomans and were made promises in regards to territory in exchange. They were 'encouraged' by the Nazis in the beginning to emigrate to Palestine minus their personal wealth. Then when the good British wanted to curry arab favor they placed restrictions on Jewish emigration and barred them from buying land in the majority of Palestine. After the war, and still wanting to cling to their empire, the good ol British that everyone extols here, rounded up and placed thousands if illegal immigrant jews in internment camps in Palestine as a way of trying to maintain cordial relations with the arab leaders in the region. Most of those interred were people that had fled Europe and were concentration camp survivors.
The bottom line is the partition plan was voted on in the UN and passed. The arabs didn't want to abide by it and neither did the British. The jews accepted it even though they didn't like parts. Did they seize territory in the intervening wars since then, they sure did. Did they start them? No, except for Suez, which was the British and French mad at the Egyptians over the Canal. They were either attacked or responded to provocation.
You know what jihadists are at the end of the day? Sore losers. They never wanted to accept a single attempt at resolution of the conflict, and they never will, so any thought it the Israelis would just be a little more accommodating it will settle the conflict is simply not supported by the history.
Andy, your argument is fatally flawed. Mossad has spied on us since the country was installed in the Middle East – and I don't mean friendly situational awareness spying. I mean down to the dirt technology theft. They they proceed to sell that technology to China when it suits them, America's balance of power consequences be damned. They threaten unilateral action against Iran when they know it could sink a carrier group in the Persian Gulf. And they do all this with an open hand, demanding that we pay for the systems that they need because they broke terms with the Palestinians and rolled right through the West Bank again anyway.
Tell me again; what does Israel do that benefits us?
JZizka and Earlydawn,
See my initial post and this section in particular:
"Argue with facts instead of mere statements and the comments section might be worth reading again."
How about?
Or you could just ignore the facts that you don't want to deal with, as you have done.
Incredibly hypocritical. While I disagree with your interpretation of events, I don't dispute your facts. So cite your own sources or bite me. Show me definitive statistics that indicate that Israeli foreign policy solves more problems then it creates. You've cited no links. Zero.
not a single JSF file to israel! from isreal to india, pakistan and china… as always.
Let's just buy their defense design concept, use and add it to our (USA) existing defense shield. In this way we have that capability and at the same time they have some money for their new defense shield
Or how about they just give it to us, as compensation for technology theft and decades of ad grata military support? I like that option better.
Well, this is one instance when I'll agree with Barack Obama, tell the Israeli's to screw off, the Saudi's want F-15's and we want oil, good deal! And Israel can buy more F-35's if they're worried, but I don't think they're worried!!! Ehud Barak just has his hand out like a damn vagrant.
Israel can suck it. They demand financing and hardware with one hand; with the other, they steal our technology using Mossad, sell it to China, and then threaten unilateral action against Iran irregardless of U.S. interests in the region.
Turn their planes around at the airport. Send them home with nothing.
So by that logic should we abandon the French? They are selling at least two amphibious assault ships to Russia and possibly transferring the tech. We perform military drills off of the Korean peninsula against Chinese concerns of destabilizing the situation in Korea. Every country is always going to act in its own self interests first, to expect any less of the Israelis isn't realistic.
Is France selling their tech, or ours? I believe that they're selling their own amphibious assault ships to Russia, which is their perogative.. albiet unwise, with Russia's less-than-friendly relations with Europe in the last couple years.
It's a completely different situation to acquire technology from your primary benefactor, and then sell that technology to the benefactor's primary competition. Surely, you can appreciate this.
Also, stop applying law and order nonsense to international relations. By your own admission, the system is self-interest-centric, and might-makes-right. You have yet to illustrate how giving Israel any additional technology is in the U.S.' best interests.
Simple, a safe and secure Israel will ultimately sign a treaty with the Palestinians. When that is done, the moderate arab states will drop the unified arab front and Iran will become more isolated. Once the Iranian issue has been resolved the US will not have to maintain the same operational and logistical footprint we dedicate to response in the Persian Gulf, thereby freeing up resources for other issues, or as a general cost savings.
An Israel that feels isolated and abandoned will never compromise on anything. The status quo will be maintained and the corresponding dedication of resources will persist. The Iranians will still have their wedge issue and the moderate arab states won't be able to publicly denounce and isolate Iran.
That's why keeping the military balance between Israel and the rest of the middle east is in our interest. Imbalance leads to military adventurism, balance sows doubt. If the anti Israeli elements in the middle east perceive they have an opportunity to use a military solution they won't hesitate. History clearly supports that.
Our overwhelming military superiority in the world insures that other nations redress their grievances with us through peaceful means. The same notion applies in the middle east context. As long as the antagonists (Iran and Syria) are convinced Israel has a full range of non nuclear options to respond to them, as well as, the good will of the US, they remain hostile but still restrained in their dealings.
This is a well-structured argument, but I reject the idea that any country in the Middle East would ever attempt an overt, symmetric attack against U.S. forces. It would be suicide. The region saw how well a stand-up fight went for the Iraqis.
I see your point about counter-balancing with Israel, but I would put forth that Israel is too independent to be relied upon as a U.S. counterbalance. Putting politics aside for a moment, Saudi Arabia has a far superior geostrategic position with which to strike at Iran; less land borders to go over, and none of them currently under U.S. control. I grant you your point on the current lack of political resolve in the Sheiks, but the Kingdom does seem to be increasing its rhetoric against Iran steadily.
I agree with your point on the necessity of conditions in order to go forward with the peace process, but there is also a need to show some muscle on this issue. Israel is attempting to hold us hostage with our own completely unrelated weapons sale, while simultaneously asking us to fund a major system for them. That's not acceptable, nor is it the behavior of an ally that can be relied upon.
@early dawn, please state specifically the technology you believe the Israelis sold to Russia. And if you can, what was the US reaction. As for the so called china sales, do the same.
I don't believe I ever claimed that Israel sold anything of consequence to Russia. As for China, it's pretty easy to Google. Here are some links. Before you ask, no, I wouldn't consider them all bulletproof, but there's enough noise on the subject to give me pause with regard to sending more top-tier technology to China.
http://www.forward.com/articles/3410/ (Ostensibly suspended over technology transfer) http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htintel/articles… http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5…
they do double deal us, no doubt. Im tiring of Israel's lack of interest for real peace. Alot of them believe they have to build the 3rd temple for the "Messiah"..sound familiar? They will one day seize that mosque and LEVEL it. The Jews can be as bad as the moslems with religion. Any way you cut it, the answer is NO. HELL NO!!!
Well Israel is a good ally. If they needed loan money, give them loan money at the same time ask them to transfer the technology to us (USA), on the defense shield they just newly invented.
If we were to agree with Israel we need to say alright we sell you JSF provided you don't share it with China, Russia, North Korea and Iran. And the money is for the loan not giveaway, if there is something left.
Andy made some good points, especially on Israel's help with intelligence. The fact of the matter is that Israel is one of several major regional powers that we should court in order to advance US interests the region. I do take issue with the notion that al-Qaeda focuses on Israel instead of the US. I have yet to read a single account of al-Qaeda operating inside Gaza strip. Can someone show me evidence of that? Whether you agree with the special relationship or not, many critics around the world, including our allies, cite it as the prime example of American hypocrisy.
Yeahh, I don't think Israel breaks even on the intelligence benevolence category. Mossad has a pretty clear-cut history of espionage operations against the U.S. that go beyond the territory of "staying in the neighborhood".
Google it and thou shall find it. alqaida in gaza. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8202553.st…
Oddball indeed!
If what I been reading on this post about Israel involving on technology transfer to China is true then Israel could be the mole. But they are a good ally in the past and up today. I guess the loan money is ok except for the JSF technology transfer. I think that is dangerous especially when there is already an increasing tension with North Korea. Unless there is a confidenciality agreement on military technology transfer.
Or maybe we can just tell em: Hold on that taught remind after 30 years.
They sold F-16 tech to China! Screw them
Actually it was Israeli Lavi technology, which is Israeli property as with other technology sold. Don't forget that Israel outfits it's planes with its own technology, which is the reason they need the source code to the F-35 as to make their own weapons and technology compatible.
so untruth!
I'd rather see us spend the 7-8 Billion eliminating Hezbollah. I'd like to see drones with lasers burning holes in all those missle dumps in South Lebanon.
I just don't see the logic with all this wars for land thing. Israel have missile technology, why not build a shuttle space craft, explore moon and other stars. Maybe they (Israel)) can find a place in arizona or in the moon.There is enough room in the universe.
I don't see the logic in your posts.You don't make any sense.
No, I don't either…….
As far as handing over the most sensitive items to China, Bush era protocol landed our top secret spy plane on Chinese soil. The Chinese stole reams of data during the Clinton years. Ask the Russians how much China has stolen from them. Judging from some posts here, Israel is our enemy. Well, that would make Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Russia, China, Turkey, Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Belarus, Afghanistan, Burma, Sudan, etc. what? Our friends?
Helen Thomas Award of the day goes to Roland, "Maybe Israel can find a place in arizona or in the moon". Bravo Roland.
your commment is a stopide comment written by obscurant!
idiot.
you should go to the library and read the bibal or any other book about the Jewish people history- then you may understand who are the native people of israel…(the israelis if you didn't got it yet.)
Wow 500 million dollars to Pakistan, and we have people here in the U.S. that are getting thrown out of thier home , forclosing, and these single mother have many young children, and are in school, and have thier water turned off, and can't find work too. lets talk about Michigan, # one for unemployment, endless forclosures, and hungry famlies, and people loosing thier hides, and suicidal. But lets go ahead and give a country that doesn't even want us there 500 million dollars.What happend to good ole america, and taking acre of our own the people that are paying for this 500 million dollars, that tax payers. We are getting screwed. it is disgusting and unethical.
Bring back the old america,. Our poor veterans are loosing what they deserve too. Please comment , i would like to hear everyones thaoughts.
I agree, screw pakistan, screw everyone, we’re turning communist the more we mingle with these other ****** countries.
My thought is that this is a ridiculous apples-to-oranges red herring.
If we don't give Israel what they want they will just steal it from us. With friends like that…..
Israel is the ONLY TRUE Friend that the United States has in the Middle East. The USA needs Israel more than Israel needs the USA. Without Israel, the USA is helpless when it comes to middle eastern affairs.
Really? That's fascinating. Because, by my calculations, the U.S. projected the most powerful military in the region without help from anyone but Kuwait and extremely limited aid from Turkey.
We base no forces out of Israel, but yet we constantly have to keep an eye on their activities. If Israel crossed U.S.-controlled airspace to strike at Iran, it would certainly result in strategic missile attacks on American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, and either trap a carrier group in the Persian Gulf (best case scenario), or sink it completely.
And again, how does Israel help the U.S. diplomatically? It seems to me that a once respectable policy of self-defense has turned into a human rights atrocity that is fueling the fire. Don't get me wrong; Hezbollah and Hamas are just as culpable. But eventually, Israel is going to have to realize that this cycle is unwinnable, and start making nice with neighbors.
Again, how is the U.S. more dependent on Israel?
"Don't get me wrong; Hezbollah and Hamas are just as culpable".
Oh I get you alright. Your moral equivalency BS is pretty obvious as is your bias. There is plenty you can Google to find the answers to your rhetorical questions. Yeah, Israel has devolved into a human rights atrocity. Maybe you haven't read the Hamas charter or bothered to actually READ what Palestinian leadership is saying and has been saying for 60 years. Maybe we should make nice to all that hate us and see where that gets us.
Didn't I just concede this? My point is that either side trying to claim moral high ground is lunacy.
What is my bias? I don't want to see Israel leave the region. They are there, and that will not change. I am merely pointing out the obvious; Israel was a Western power installed in the region by Western fiat, natives be damned. Does that mean that it should be open season on Israeli civilians? Of course not. But some of you unconditionally pro-Israeli bobbleheads are unreal. You fight with legitimate fact until the conditions of Israel's founding are discussed, and then all rationality goes out the window.
“unconditional pro-Israel bobbleheads”? Well ain’t that nice Jackwagon…. Millions of Jews were thrown out of the land they lived on for centuries in violation of agreements made between the West and Muslim countries. Let me get my violin…
You don’t know what you are talking about by saying Israel has no higher moral ground. Do Hamas terrorists call Israeli homes before they send their missiles? Do Israelis gun down political opposition in the streets and ban their women from all sorts of things?
No one here is saying Israel is exempt from making bad decisions, but to conclude that terrorists In Gaza are no better or worse in record and deed than Israelis is abject ********. Had there really been a motivation for peace on the Palestinian side, peace would be fact.
“You fight with legitimate fact until the conditions of Israel’s founding are discussed, and then all rationality goes out the window.”
First show us some “legitimate facts”, then lets see that discussion about Israel’s founding and watch me throw rationality to the wind. When Iraqis hit the USS Stark and our President called upon Saudi Arabian jets to intercept, what did they do? Nothing and it held up Congress giving more arms to the King. What did Kissinger tell Iraq in 1976 about Israel being another Lebanon? Has anything really changed om the part of Arabs other than they are more scared now of Iran than Israel? Are Arabs even helping us in Afghanistan or Iraq? Has Turkey gone into battle against Jihadists or just the Kurds? Are Turkish fighters shooting at US soldiers in Afghanistan? As Salafists encouraged by the Saudis for 60year spread their hate from Pakistan to Morocco, you see no difference between the Arab and Israeli sides. Now that is just so reasonable of you……..
so much for facts…
These indegnous people had no governing authority over themselves EVER… there was never a legitimate home brew government so at the very least they replaced one foreign power with another…. but that is not even the end of it. Just like the palestinians (who many were arguably jews that were forced to convert anyway) Groups of jews have still been living in Israel for 3 thousand years and there have been other Jews filtering that were from the diaspora far far before 1948 (we have very good records of this).
So really all that happened was to give the people the ability to rule themselves and if not that then nothing really occured because Israel was never in indigenous hands anyway since the Roman diaspora.
And the bible states that Jews owned the land anyway, and If you don't believe that then there is archeological evidence of the Jewish kingdom.
It would be cheaper to buy Lebanon's friendship.
I think this is about the accord we signed with them that needed some revision because of the recession. On the otherhand if we are going to help them on this we need to create this defense shield Israel was asking, here in the States (USA). We use our material, our equipment, and use their technology. All we need is their scientist with their design parameters.In this way the cost is under control and supevised.
The power of the Israel lobby is mind boggling. "If you give us several billion dollars (more) we'll LET you sell your own weapons.
The whole QME concept is nonsense in this case. They'd be grounded within months of any political drama. But ok, what about a worst case scenario, where some radical Saudi govt emerges and decides to attack Israel before sanctions can be effective? A turkey shoot. Maybe Saudi have been breeding squadrons of super talented (and fanatical enough not to skip town ASAP) pilots, but I;d pick the IDF crews any day. Combine that with with Israels vastly more advanced EW capabilities and SAMs, intimate knowledge of the f-15, and it's a paper threat.
Just scary enough to screw 9 figure sums from their 'friends'.
Did you read the article? Lobby? Where is anyone asking for money?
Boy what a site, never though that some of thing's that I had read here came from brain's on this earth, we need to better do a good job on how to keep other people's from killing the other half.
Really!!…All this giving money away is setting the U.S. up for a HARD fall. The future stability for American children is looking scary each and every day. We want to please other countries by forgetting our own. GREED! GREED! This is the number one thing first on certain minds. Who is making the sacrifice? It’s the ones who volunteered too.
Perhaps the solution to these problem is a smile, a handshake with the people we hate or those who hate us, make an accord for peace and agree to a surveyed territorial rights. Sometimes we we making our own enemies.
"Sometimes we we making our own enemies"
Really now roland.
DO NOT give isreal anything. nothing
Whatever Israel wants the US and Germany must give them. How many more decades must this lunacy go on?
This is a shakedown pure and simple. I would tell them to go pound Saudi sand up thier plump rumps!! LMAO!! YOU BELIEVE THIS????
pretty soon your woman will be looking though the black hoods with the slit in the eyes if we dont help isreal
Hilarious…do tell which sad ass radical Muslim group could even take over a freaking post office in the United States? Hopefully Israel can fight better than its supporters can propagandize, because your efforts at extracting money through fear are about as inept as they come.
How much anti-israelis comment in one page…WOW! : -/
first of all pleace don't notice for my grammer, English isn't my native lang'..
Let start from that WE -the israelis contributing to U.S interests, if to blame anyone of situation at the M.E is the arabs – some of them still don't want to recognize the Jewish states existence.
secondly the demand is right and justice- in the last 6 years you (U.S) sold military ammunition and fighters to the arabs states in an amunt and quality that is equal if not above the level of the IDF- despite the presidential agreements you have given us (the israelis) in the last 50 years,and we all know that the military supply to the arabs have one purpose- to give them confidence aginst Iran nuclear abilities – you know it isn't gonna happend, just have a look what obama did to the M.E since he came!- Qatar, Turkey, Lebanon and Bahrain all thes countrys changed thier sides and now are closer to Iran the the wast countrys.
and even the littel kingdom – Jordan have nuclear ambition – this country that in her goverment and the most secret intelligence units the el-queida have intruded (when 6 CIA agents have been killed ,at secret CIA base in Afganistan, by jordanian intelligence men that become el-queida terrorist)..
-the country that 75-80% from it's population are palestinian – it sure become a future threat aginst israel.
and you ask why the military supply to the arabs worry us? – because that in a situation of a war with the arabs states -they all would be joind aginst us (as at the six day war, yom cippor war..) and with all this military supply it would be more difficult overpower!!
By the way Israel didn't exported an AWACS to China because U.S ask not to.
I definitely agree with Andy and Paul!
Again, is this really a surprise? Israel is not making efforts to assuage tension with the Palestinians. They're (speculatively) selling technology to the Chinese. They're threatening to act unilaterally against Iran – forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Gulf be damned. Israel is an ally, but not a predictable one.
And seriously, do you think Saudi Arabia would ever act against Israel again? Enmity aside, I think the Sheiks realize that ship has sailed..
Thank God no US Pres has had the nerve to give into Israel regarding the release of Pollard. Let's hope Obama is no different. This traitor really should have been hung.
Btw, when the next generation of leaders takes over in Germany that meal ticket will end for Israel.
This is also U.S interest – the israelies can't export weapons developed with U.S money.
Also in the last few years they don't sell any weapon to china , because the U.S asked nicely.
If Israel had been allowed to develop the lavi program it would not need to beg the USA for protection. if one goes far enough back it was said the USA stopped Canada from producing a very capable fighter aircraft. Check it out. We love to control our allies and if one wants to complain about Israel gettting our money just take a look at Egypt. We prop up another despot in the arab world and we wonder why the Muslim Brotherhood has so much support.
If you do not help your allies then who do you help?
Guest your right on some parts. Yes the Lavi was an indigenous aircraft, and if you look at the Lavi compared to the J-10 you can see they are very alike. But back in the
early 80's they were using avionics from the U.S. from our F-16's. Thats where Tech
transfer to China gets involved. Avionics.
The Israeli's want the JSF stealth aircraft so they can penetrate Iranian territory and destroy its nuclear silos.
Thats my guess at least
Israel has also ripped off the USA for years by selling a lot of the hardware and software used by US security and law enforcement agencies, then using electronic 'back doors' to steal all the data it wants. There's little that they don't know about the US military or intelligence, and you should be scared of that. They've done the same thing to us here in Europe, too, but anyone who complains gets the usual 'you're anti-semitic' diatribe thrown at them.
If the American people knew exactly the kinds of things APAC did/does for Israel there would be a tremendous uproar for the gov't to outlaw it. I can't believe a foreign gov't has such power in America. Why is Israel allowed to wield so much power in the US gov't? Oh yea, anyone who comes out against them is called anti-semitic.
i think that if you see a child hitting another child with a stick that you gave to him, you take the stick off the child.You do not give the other child a bigger stick to hit back..if you look for the answers in weapons then you are agreeeing to war and all you will find is death….
Take the sticks from the bullies.And job creation is no excusse for weapons or war…
If the US insists on selling hundreds of billions of dollars of military equipment to Arab countries that surround Israel and are officially still at war with Israel, then Israel should be free to sell its own considerable weapons systems to Cuba or other countries hostile to the UNited States. Did the US sell arms to Nazi Germany when Britain stood all alone, and was dependent on US aid in 1940 and '41 before Pearl Harbor? And why doesn't the US give Israel a FORMAL treaty o alliance, as it has to almost 40 other countries, such as Germany, Japan, Poland, the Czech Republic, and other countries in NATO, SEATO and ANZUS (Australia and New Zealand)? Why is there no written and ratified treaty of alliance with ISrael? The US has been playing a double game all along, claiming to be an "ally" of ISrael, while refusing to give Israel a true treaty of alliance, while giving as much aid to Egypt and the Palestinans as to Israel, and while selling the Arabs almost three (3) times as much military equipment. Today, thanks to US aid and arms sales, the ARabs are much stronger than they were when the Soviet Union was their arms supplier. But most Americans never hear this side of the story, which the media hides from the US public. That the US has been helping the Arabs far more than it has been helping ISrael over the last 20 years.
Here are some FACTS. The US gives Egypt and the Palestinians AS MUCH AID as it gives to Israel annually. The US sells the Arab countries nearly three times as much, in dollar terms, as it gives or sells to Israel. The US sends the OPEC countries $400 billion a year for oil. This oil was discovered, developed and maintained by US companies. The Arabs don't even work to bring the oil up from the ground. The use cheaper labor from Southwest Asia. The amount of wealth the US sends to the Middle East for oil is 100 times the amount of aid we give to Israel, which as I mentioned, is no more than we give to Egypt and the Palestinians.
If you count the amount of aid to Iraq and Afghanistan in, its even much higher as well.
What does the US get back from Israel for the aid? It gets Israeli military technologies in many fields. In fact, Israel throws out the US avionics and install their own, which is usually better. American flyers and GIs benefit in more ways from Israeli technology than I would have room here to even begin to list. As for UAVs, Israel was the pioneer. IN the first Gulf war we had to use Israeli UAVs as we had none. The name of those Israeli UAVs was "Pioneer." Since those days, the US and many other countries have become large producers of their own UAVs, but much of the initial work and breakthroughs was done by Israel. Again, to list the things the US gets out of Israel could fill a book. What we get from the Arabs is very simple to list: OIL and TERROR. And we pay well for the oil, and pay well to defend the Arab countries like Kuwait, for example. We pay for the oil not only in money, but in blood. No US soldier has ever died in defense of Israel.
American don't know what it is to live under rocket fire. Or to have their children have to sleep in shelters. If the Native American "indians" had thousands of rockets and suicide bombers, to periodically rain down on nearby European Settlements, then Americans would get a better understanding of ISrael's predicament. Maybe if there were a Native American uprising, and each "reservation" were fortified by bunkders, defended by Stinger missiles, and armed with tens of thousands of Iranian or other rockets, then maybe Americans would see things more clearly. All Americans worry about is losing a job, or losing a house, or rising gasoline prices,. They don't worry about rockets coming down on their children's kindergartens. Or having to have gas masks in their house. Or having to build an underground shelter in their homes. But this is normal life for Israelis, in addition to all the other problems of life. Israelis pay $6.50 a gallon for gasoline. They pay 56% of their salaries in taxes, versus 43% for Americans. Most men have to spend 3 years in the army, and then at least a month a year for the rest of their adult life, until their mid '40s. Americans are clueless as to how easy a life they have, even in these bad times. Still, ISrael is the only democracy and the ONLY country the US could actually count on if our security were in real danger. In the Middle East, most of the countries we are helping would slit our throats in a minute if they had the chance. Why do we do it? FOR OIL! Is it worth it? Well, as long as we don't have alternative energy sources, what choices do we have? Beating up on Israel, or weakening it in any way is NOT going to make America safer., It is not going to make the Muslim world love us. Rather, it will only show them how weak and how really stupid we are.
American technology? Ha. Jewish scientists invented the atomic bomb for American at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. A Jewish admiral, Hyman Rickover, conceived and developed the nuclear submarine and the nuclear navy. Israel fought all alone in 1948 against 5 Arab armies, and got their arms finally from Czechoslovakia, thanks to Stalin who was hoping that the Jewish state would become a Communist state. The US did not send a bullet to Israel in 1948. Israel defeated the Arabs in 1956 and '67 using French planes and British tanks. It developed its own nuclear deterrent in collaboration with France in the late 1950s and early '60s. It developed its Jericho missiles from French rockets. It has developed its own battle tanks, the Merkavas, the safest and arguably the best in the world. As for the Patriots, I was in Israel during the SCud attack. The Patriots did not even score one hit! Not until the Israelis asked to reprogram them. The Israelis helped improve the Patriots. The US funded the Arrow ABM system, because that was the way to skirt the US-Soviet ABM treaty, by funding the Israeli missile, and then getting the technology for doing so. We used Israeli UAVs in the Gulf War because we had none of our own. The fact is, we have gotten almost as much Israeli technology back from Israel as they have gotten from the US. In fact, the Israelis take out the US electronics and replace them with their own. No, it is not cost-effective for Israel to produce its own planes. Nor would US defense companies welcome Israeli competition. Our aid to Israel actually keeps Israel from competing in markets against our own companies. Israel doesn't even want the F-35's, but must take them or not get the aid. It would probably prefer a nuclear submarine instead, if the US would allow it. Israel doesn't even need more planes. What it needs is nuclear submarines with SLBMs.
What neighbors? And since when does maintaining a credible deterrence amount to being uninterested in peace? By your logic you view the US in the same way I would hope, otherwise you are being overwhelmingly hypocritical.
Credibility is a subjective term. If we abandon modernization of our military and no longer deploy overseas, and stand down our capabilities, do we present a 'credible' deterrence? Why would anyone negotiate with an adversary that abandons it's ability to defend itself? That doesn't seem terribly smart from a diplomatic stand point.
Try reading UN resolution 181 and then look at the history of the Arab Israeli conflict and put yourself in Israels shoes, and then ask yourself what you would do honestly. The UN is a farce and all its resolutions.