Comments on: Israel Wants Missile Shield Money, JSF Tech To Not Oppose Saudi F-15 Sale http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/ The Future of the Military, Law Enforcement and National Security Sat, 26 May 2012 06:20:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: jgarbuz http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-209036 jgarbuz Mon, 16 Aug 2010 01:10:05 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-209036 American technology? Ha. Jewish scientists invented the atomic bomb for American at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. A Jewish admiral, Hyman Rickover, conceived and developed the nuclear submarine and the nuclear navy. Israel fought all alone in 1948 against 5 Arab armies, and got their arms finally from Czechoslovakia, thanks to Stalin who was hoping that the Jewish state would become a Communist state. The US did not send a bullet to Israel in 1948. Israel defeated the Arabs in 1956 and '67 using French planes and British tanks. It developed its own nuclear deterrent in collaboration with France in the late 1950s and early '60s. It developed its Jericho missiles from French rockets. It has developed its own battle tanks, the Merkavas, the safest and arguably the best in the world. As for the Patriots, I was in Israel during the SCud attack. The Patriots did not even score one hit! Not until the Israelis asked to reprogram them. The Israelis helped improve the Patriots. The US funded the Arrow ABM system, because that was the way to skirt the US-Soviet ABM treaty, by funding the Israeli missile, and then getting the technology for doing so. We used Israeli UAVs in the Gulf War because we had none of our own. The fact is, we have gotten almost as much Israeli technology back from Israel as they have gotten from the US. In fact, the Israelis take out the US electronics and replace them with their own. No, it is not cost-effective for Israel to produce its own planes. Nor would US defense companies welcome Israeli competition. Our aid to Israel actually keeps Israel from competing in markets against our own companies. Israel doesn't even want the F-35's, but must take them or not get the aid. It would probably prefer a nuclear submarine instead, if the US would allow it. Israel doesn't even need more planes. What it needs is nuclear submarines with SLBMs. American technology? Ha. Jewish scientists invented the atomic bomb for American at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. A Jewish admiral, Hyman Rickover, conceived and developed the nuclear submarine and the nuclear navy. Israel fought all alone in 1948 against 5 Arab armies, and got their arms finally from Czechoslovakia, thanks to Stalin who was hoping that the Jewish state would become a Communist state. The US did not send a bullet to Israel in 1948. Israel defeated the Arabs in 1956 and ’67 using French planes and British tanks. It developed its own nuclear deterrent in collaboration with France in the late 1950s and early ‘60s. It developed its Jericho missiles from French rockets. It has developed its own battle tanks, the Merkavas, the safest and arguably the best in the world. As for the Patriots, I was in Israel during the SCud attack. The Patriots did not even score one hit! Not until the Israelis asked to reprogram them. The Israelis helped improve the Patriots. The US funded the Arrow ABM system, because that was the way to skirt the US-Soviet ABM treaty, by funding the Israeli missile, and then getting the technology for doing so. We used Israeli UAVs in the Gulf War because we had none of our own. The fact is, we have gotten almost as much Israeli technology back from Israel as they have gotten from the US. In fact, the Israelis take out the US electronics and replace them with their own. No, it is not cost-effective for Israel to produce its own planes. Nor would US defense companies welcome Israeli competition. Our aid to Israel actually keeps Israel from competing in markets against our own companies. Israel doesn’t even want the F-35’s, but must take them or not get the aid. It would probably prefer a nuclear submarine instead, if the US would allow it. Israel doesn’t even need more planes. What it needs is nuclear submarines with SLBMs.

]]> By: jgarbuz http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-209034 jgarbuz Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:47:41 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-209034 First of all, there is a TREATY OF ALLIANCE between the US and Britain through NATO. But there is NO treaty of alliance between the US and Israel. The US did not want to give Israel such a treaty, which is why Israel had to go nuclear in the first place. But where were US troops in 1948 when israel was attacked by 7 Arab armies? Of in 1956, 1967, or in 1973. I don't recall any US armies coming to help Israel in its wars. I recall US armies going to defend South Korea, South Vietnam, Kuwait, etc. And when Britain stood alone against the Nazis in 1940, we weren't selling arms to the Nazis. But we were sending aid to Britain. So yes, we do send aid to Israel, but it's only 1/3rd of what we sell in arms to Israel's enemies that surround it. I suspect there are reasons why the US government doesn't trumpet the fact that it sells the Arabs three times as much arms, and that it gives Egypt and the Palestinians as much aid as it gives to Israel. Unfortunately, ignorance of the facts doesn't change the facts. The US has been playing both sides of this fence for 40 years, while falsely claiming it is ISrael's "ally." First of all, there is a TREATY OF ALLIANCE between the US and Britain through NATO. But there is NO treaty of alliance between the US and Israel. The US did not want to give Israel such a treaty, which is why Israel had to go nuclear in the first place.
But where were US troops in 1948 when israel was attacked by 7 Arab armies? Of in 1956, 1967, or in 1973. I don’t recall any US armies coming to help Israel in its wars. I recall US armies going to defend South Korea, South Vietnam, Kuwait, etc.

And when Britain stood alone against the Nazis in 1940, we weren’t selling arms to the Nazis. But we were sending aid to Britain. So yes, we do send aid to Israel, but it’s only 1/3rd of what we sell in arms to Israel’s enemies that surround it. I suspect there are reasons why the US government doesn’t trumpet the fact that it sells the Arabs three times as much arms, and that it gives Egypt and the Palestinians as much aid as it gives to Israel. Unfortunately, ignorance of the facts doesn’t change the facts. The US has been playing both sides of this fence for 40 years, while falsely claiming it is ISrael’s “ally.”

]]> By: jgarbuz http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-209033 jgarbuz Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:25:58 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-209033 American don't know what it is to live under rocket fire. Or to have their children have to sleep in shelters. If the Native American "indians" had thousands of rockets and suicide bombers, to periodically rain down on nearby European Settlements, then Americans would get a better understanding of ISrael's predicament. Maybe if there were a Native American uprising, and each "reservation" were fortified by bunkders, defended by Stinger missiles, and armed with tens of thousands of Iranian or other rockets, then maybe Americans would see things more clearly. All Americans worry about is losing a job, or losing a house, or rising gasoline prices,. They don't worry about rockets coming down on their children's kindergartens. Or having to have gas masks in their house. Or having to build an underground shelter in their homes. But this is normal life for Israelis, in addition to all the other problems of life. Israelis pay $6.50 a gallon for gasoline. They pay 56% of their salaries in taxes, versus 43% for Americans. Most men have to spend 3 years in the army, and then at least a month a year for the rest of their adult life, until their mid '40s. Americans are clueless as to how easy a life they have, even in these bad times. Still, ISrael is the only democracy and the ONLY country the US could actually count on if our security were in real danger. In the Middle East, most of the countries we are helping would slit our throats in a minute if they had the chance. Why do we do it? FOR OIL! Is it worth it? Well, as long as we don't have alternative energy sources, what choices do we have? Beating up on Israel, or weakening it in any way is NOT going to make America safer., It is not going to make the Muslim world love us. Rather, it will only show them how weak and how really stupid we are. American don’t know what it is to live under rocket fire. Or to have their children have to sleep in shelters. If the Native American “indians” had thousands of rockets and suicide bombers, to periodically rain down on nearby European Settlements, then Americans would get a better understanding of ISrael’s predicament. Maybe if there were a Native American uprising, and each “reservation” were fortified by bunkders, defended by Stinger missiles, and armed with tens of thousands of Iranian or other rockets, then maybe Americans would see things more clearly. All Americans worry about is losing a job, or losing a house, or rising gasoline prices,. They don’t worry about rockets coming down on their children’s kindergartens. Or having to have gas masks in their house. Or having to build an underground shelter in their homes. But this is normal life for Israelis, in addition to all the other problems of life. Israelis pay $6.50 a gallon for gasoline. They pay 56% of their salaries in taxes, versus 43% for Americans. Most men have to spend 3 years in the army, and then at least a month a year for the rest of their adult life, until their mid ‘40s. Americans are clueless as to how easy a life they have, even in these bad times. Still, ISrael is the only democracy and the ONLY country the US could actually count on if our security were in real danger. In the Middle East, most of the countries we are helping would slit our throats in a minute if they had the chance. Why do we do it? FOR OIL! Is it worth it? Well, as long as we don’t have alternative energy sources, what choices do we have? Beating up on Israel, or weakening it in any way is NOT going to make America safer., It is not going to make the Muslim world love us. Rather, it will only show them how weak and how really stupid we are.

]]> By: jgarbuz http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-209032 jgarbuz Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:13:40 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-209032 Here are some FACTS. The US gives Egypt and the Palestinians AS MUCH AID as it gives to Israel annually. The US sells the Arab countries nearly three times as much, in dollar terms, as it gives or sells to Israel. The US sends the OPEC countries $400 billion a year for oil. This oil was discovered, developed and maintained by US companies. The Arabs don't even work to bring the oil up from the ground. The use cheaper labor from Southwest Asia. The amount of wealth the US sends to the Middle East for oil is 100 times the amount of aid we give to Israel, which as I mentioned, is no more than we give to Egypt and the Palestinians. If you count the amount of aid to Iraq and Afghanistan in, its even much higher as well. What does the US get back from Israel for the aid? It gets Israeli military technologies in many fields. In fact, Israel throws out the US avionics and install their own, which is usually better. American flyers and GIs benefit in more ways from Israeli technology than I would have room here to even begin to list. As for UAVs, Israel was the pioneer. IN the first Gulf war we had to use Israeli UAVs as we had none. The name of those Israeli UAVs was "Pioneer." Since those days, the US and many other countries have become large producers of their own UAVs, but much of the initial work and breakthroughs was done by Israel. Again, to list the things the US gets out of Israel could fill a book. What we get from the Arabs is very simple to list: OIL and TERROR. And we pay well for the oil, and pay well to defend the Arab countries like Kuwait, for example. We pay for the oil not only in money, but in blood. No US soldier has ever died in defense of Israel. Here are some FACTS. The US gives Egypt and the Palestinians AS MUCH AID as it gives to Israel annually. The US sells the Arab countries nearly three times as much, in dollar terms, as it gives or sells to Israel. The US sends the OPEC countries $400 billion a year for oil. This oil was discovered, developed and maintained by US companies. The Arabs don’t even work to bring the oil up from the ground. The use cheaper labor from Southwest Asia. The amount of wealth the US sends to the Middle East for oil is 100 times the amount of aid we give to Israel, which as I mentioned, is no more than we give to Egypt and the Palestinians.
If you count the amount of aid to Iraq and Afghanistan in, its even much higher as well.
What does the US get back from Israel for the aid? It gets Israeli military technologies in many fields. In fact, Israel throws out the US avionics and install their own, which is usually better. American flyers and GIs benefit in more ways from Israeli technology than I would have room here to even begin to list. As for UAVs, Israel was the pioneer. IN the first Gulf war we had to use Israeli UAVs as we had none. The name of those Israeli UAVs was “Pioneer.” Since those days, the US and many other countries have become large producers of their own UAVs, but much of the initial work and breakthroughs was done by Israel. Again, to list the things the US gets out of Israel could fill a book. What we get from the Arabs is very simple to list: OIL and TERROR. And we pay well for the oil, and pay well to defend the Arab countries like Kuwait, for example. We pay for the oil not only in money, but in blood. No US soldier has ever died in defense of Israel.

]]> By: jgarbuz http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-209031 jgarbuz Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:00:19 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-209031 If the US insists on selling hundreds of billions of dollars of military equipment to Arab countries that surround Israel and are officially still at war with Israel, then Israel should be free to sell its own considerable weapons systems to Cuba or other countries hostile to the UNited States. Did the US sell arms to Nazi Germany when Britain stood all alone, and was dependent on US aid in 1940 and '41 before Pearl Harbor? And why doesn't the US give Israel a FORMAL treaty o alliance, as it has to almost 40 other countries, such as Germany, Japan, Poland, the Czech Republic, and other countries in NATO, SEATO and ANZUS (Australia and New Zealand)? Why is there no written and ratified treaty of alliance with ISrael? The US has been playing a double game all along, claiming to be an "ally" of ISrael, while refusing to give Israel a true treaty of alliance, while giving as much aid to Egypt and the Palestinans as to Israel, and while selling the Arabs almost three (3) times as much military equipment. Today, thanks to US aid and arms sales, the ARabs are much stronger than they were when the Soviet Union was their arms supplier. But most Americans never hear this side of the story, which the media hides from the US public. That the US has been helping the Arabs far more than it has been helping ISrael over the last 20 years. If the US insists on selling hundreds of billions of dollars of military equipment to Arab countries that surround Israel and are officially still at war with Israel, then Israel should be free to sell its own considerable weapons systems to Cuba or other countries hostile to the UNited States. Did the US sell arms to Nazi Germany when Britain stood all alone, and was dependent on US aid in 1940 and ’41 before Pearl Harbor? And why doesn’t the US give Israel a FORMAL treaty o alliance, as it has to almost 40 other countries, such as Germany, Japan, Poland, the Czech Republic, and other countries in NATO, SEATO and ANZUS (Australia and New Zealand)? Why is there no written and ratified treaty of alliance with ISrael? The US has been playing a double game all along, claiming to be an “ally” of ISrael, while refusing to give Israel a true treaty of alliance, while giving as much aid to Egypt and the Palestinans as to Israel, and while selling the Arabs almost three (3) times as much military equipment. Today, thanks to US aid and arms sales, the ARabs are much stronger than they were when the Soviet Union was their arms supplier. But most Americans never hear this side of the story, which the media hides from the US public. That the US has been helping the Arabs far more than it has been helping ISrael over the last 20 years.

]]> By: hillwalker http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-208777 hillwalker Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:09:22 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-208777 i think that if you see a child hitting another child with a stick that you gave to him, you take the stick off the child.You do not give the other child a bigger stick to hit back..if you look for the answers in weapons then you are agreeeing to war and all you will find is death.... Take the sticks from the bullies.And job creation is no excusse for weapons or war... i think that if you see a child hitting another child with a stick that you gave to him, you take the stick off the child.You do not give the other child a bigger stick to hit back..if you look for the answers in weapons then you are agreeeing to war and all you will find is death.…
Take the sticks from the bullies.And job creation is no excusse for weapons or war…

]]> By: Enthusiast http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-207906 Enthusiast Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:42:10 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-207906 F-22's RCS is uknown. "0.00001 m2 all-aspect RCS" for F-22 is fanboy claim and it's never was confirmed officially. F-22’s RCS is uknown. “0.00001 m2 all-aspect RCS” for F-22 is fanboy claim and it’s never was confirmed officially.

]]> By: D'veed Natan http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-207627 D'veed Natan Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:36:30 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-207627 Sure! So called 'East Jerusalem' is 60+ percent Jewish owned and lived in. The so called 'West Bank' is not as big as Metropolitan Kansas City (7,952 sq. mi. or 20,596 km² vs 5,878 km² for Judea and Samaria) and has a half million Jews living there. To move the people there would cost more than $3 trillion - yeah! That's a 'T' 'trillion' - to move the Jewish inhabitants and their businesses out of their historical - Biblical - homeland. The Arabs, on the other hand, would cost just a few Billion to move. Sure! So called ‘East Jerusalem’ is 60+ percent Jewish owned and lived in. The so called ‘West Bank’ is not as big as Metropolitan Kansas City (7,952 sq. mi. or 20,596 km² vs 5,878 km² for Judea and Samaria) and has a half million Jews living there. To move the people there would cost more than $3 trillion — yeah! That’s a ‘T’ ‘trillion’ — to move the Jewish inhabitants and their businesses out of their historical — Biblical — homeland. The Arabs, on the other hand, would cost just a few Billion to move.

]]> By: Jacob http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-207620 Jacob Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:28:03 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-207620 If the American people knew exactly the kinds of things APAC did/does for Israel there would be a tremendous uproar for the gov't to outlaw it. I can't believe a foreign gov't has such power in America. Why is Israel allowed to wield so much power in the US gov't? Oh yea, anyone who comes out against them is called anti-semitic. If the American people knew exactly the kinds of things APAC did/does for Israel there would be a tremendous uproar for the gov’t to outlaw it. I can’t believe a foreign gov’t has such power in America. Why is Israel allowed to wield so much power in the US gov’t? Oh yea, anyone who comes out against them is called anti-semitic.

]]> By: MatR http://defensetech.org/2010/07/27/israel-wants-missile-shield-money-jsf-tech-to-not-block-saudi-f-15-sale/#comment-207618 MatR Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:17:54 +0000 http://defensetech.org/?p=8405#comment-207618 Israel has also ripped off the USA for years by selling a lot of the hardware and software used by US security and law enforcement agencies, then using electronic 'back doors' to steal all the data it wants. There's little that they don't know about the US military or intelligence, and you should be scared of that. They've done the same thing to us here in Europe, too, but anyone who complains gets the usual 'you're anti-semitic' diatribe thrown at them. Israel has also ripped off the USA for years by selling a lot of the hardware and software used by US security and law enforcement agencies, then using electronic ‘back doors’ to steal all the data it wants. There’s little that they don’t know about the US military or intelligence, and you should be scared of that. They’ve done the same thing to us here in Europe, too, but anyone who complains gets the usual ‘you’re anti-semitic’ diatribe thrown at them.

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