Home » News » Israel » Israel Places Order For 20 F-35s; U.S. Picks Up The Tab

Israel Places Order For 20 F-35s; U.S. Picks Up The Tab

by Greg on August 16, 2010

Israeli defense minister Ehud Barak approved an order for 20 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in a deal valued at around $2.75 billion, according to Haaretz. The Israeli Air Force expects to take delivery of the first aircraft in 2015. The article quotes Barak saying the F-35 costs $96 million a copy. The entire deal will be funded by American military aid.

The F-35 deal had dragged for more than two years as the IAF wanted access to the plane’s hardware and software; they also wanted to install Israeli electronic warfare and configure it to carry Israeli-made missiles. The JSF program folks said no, that the deal was a “closed package.”

Although, if the Israelis place a larger order down the road, the JSF program said more Israeli-sourced components could be installed. To sweeten terms of the deal, Lockheed Martin agreed to buy more component parts for the JSF from Israeli firms; at a price of around $4 billion.

So, the IAF gets a squadron of F-35s, Israeli industry gets more orders for JSF components, and its all paid for by American taxpayers; certainly a win-win for the Israelis.

– Greg Grant

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{ 201 comments… read them below or add one }

Glasseye August 16, 2010 at 6:45 am

Is Israel that important as a partner in the middle east? The U.S. has always supported the Israelis with money to purchase american made weapons. Lets face it; the U.S. and it's tax payers are the only reason Israel is even still on the map!

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Byron Skinner August 16, 2010 at 9:26 am

Good Morning Folks,

Your last sentence says it all Greg, I agree.

Of course for the sake of fairness the US should give an Islamic/Arab country 20 F-35's also. This is just another needless provocation of the Islamic/Arab world by the US to placate the Jewish welfare state.

I think in fairness we should GIVE a Islamic/Arab country and equal number of F-35's, maybe the might even learn to tolerate us.

And yes I'm tired of the US kissing Israel's six, and seeing American being wounded and killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, because of problems that in large part caused by Israel and its arrogance and the timidness of generations of whining American politicians from both major parties in dealing with Israel.

ALLONS,

Byron Skinner

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Byron Skinner August 16, 2010 at 9:38 am

Good Morning Folks,

Now for the part the Greg left out. It is well know that Israel is selling US "Classified" military technology to the PRC as well as providing engineers and project/program management for PRC weapons programs, latest of course being the J-10/J-11 next generation fighter, I know it was a bust but that's not the point here, and the KJ-2000 AWACS that the PRC is bragging is two generations ahead of the US's AWAC's.

It is note that Israel also provided (sold) technology, engineering management and material assistance in building the PRC's first AWAC that crashed in 2006 killing 40 among them an undisclosed number of Israeli engineers.

No doubt with the first F-35 to arrive in Israel Israeli engineers will swarm all over it to "steal" US technology that they will sell to the PRC in another attempt to build a fighter aircraft. why doesn't LM just sell tis information itself to the PRC since they will get in anyway?

It's with friend like Israel that we have well armed enemies?

Or as the late Walt Kelly said: "We have seen the enemy, he is us."

ALLONS,

Byron Skinner

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blight August 16, 2010 at 9:52 am

So for every part bought in Israel, some American contractor's order was slashed.

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Jam August 18, 2010 at 3:54 pm

Although this is a pretty fat order for any defense contractor building the planes and there are always ancillary revenues later. If there is a war, Israel has to have some means to replace parts if they're cut off.

I don't like the alarmist title, as the money to israel requires more explanation than a simple headline. However, one could grumble about money going to military aid instead of, say, fixing the highways.

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roland August 19, 2010 at 2:42 am

I do hope and pray Israel will keep a confidentiality on its design secrecy from China, Rissian, N. Korea and Iran.

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kal98 August 19, 2010 at 10:25 am

u r correct and we already have helped is-ra-el out with 16billion a year , made them a super nation, made them totally solar powered ( but not in our country) and they are non-christian nation that considers me unworthy and its ok for americans to die for is(isis) ra(amen-ra) el(elohem) americans have been lied to and we do not need to support this war the jews who are mainly transported people not the bibles people n bombed us in 1960s as false flag operation to declare war on egypt! write and demand Americans hard earned wages stay in America go 2 my facebook page for more! thanks! God Bless you all!

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Ryan August 16, 2010 at 9:59 am

Im starting to get really sick and tired of reading this kinda stuff… whats next? a war with Iran? A war that the american public does not want… but im afraid Israel will get their war. And our men and women in uniform will pay for it with their lives…

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Despaired August 17, 2010 at 2:49 am

I completely empathize with your sentiments. I am so sick of reading this kind of stuff everywhere and feeling helpless to do anything about it. The founding fathers created a system of government with checks and balances to prevent the usurping of the power of the citizenry – but it seems that they did not account for the shrewdness of the zio traitors in our midst.

Maybe the French had the right idea with the guillotine…

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Jam August 18, 2010 at 3:58 pm

Wow, the two above comments managed to infer it's only in Israels interest to keep Iran from going nuclear. This would ignore the effect on the area. Would you like the saudi's to begin a nuclear program on hold the US by their oil dependent balls while they do this?

As to the 'zio traitors', I guess you've never read glen greenwald or the huffingtonpost. You'll find the greatest enemies of Israel whining there daily. Don't like Jews? You would be hard pressed to find a Jew in saudi arabia, and that isn't exactly a mecca of joy and progress is it?

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Jacob Phillips August 17, 2010 at 9:06 am

Personally I, and a lot of my fellow Marines, are willing to head to Iran.

Despite the funding disaster, you need to recognize that Israel is the only country left with a pair of balls. I wish we had to the fortitude to actually stand up to the nuts around the world; if we had been more consistent and not slashed after the 80's there may be fewer terrorists nations like Iran, N, Korea, etc… We are reaping what we have sewed.

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You Dumb August 18, 2010 at 3:41 pm

ummm…. actually the US basically created the modern state of Iran with 1953 coup d'etat of the democratically elected government of Iran. It heavily supported the Shah's dictatorship essentially creating conditions that brought the current Islamic fundamentalists to power. Had America actually valued democracy and good government it's unlikely that Islamist would ever have had the numbers to win a democratic election with the secular and moderate Iranian population. To bad the Marines don't have to take geopolitical history. It might be kind of useful.

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james August 18, 2010 at 6:13 pm

Great *******, just leave us normal people alone and let the Iranians crush your stupid skulls

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Pete August 16, 2010 at 10:44 am

What else is new under the sun. We pay almost for everything they get and on top of that they tell us what to do. LOL who is in charge! David beats Goliat again. We subside their missle defense, their airforce, their navy, army and we even give them public housing subsidies and they tell us what to do. What a joke this country is.

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fff August 27, 2010 at 9:33 pm

Of course we pay for it.

If you follow history, you would know that whomever controls (in this case, appease our Israel allies) Jerusalem controls the power.

Here's the looong list of empires who have controlled the "magic land" :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jerusalem

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JimmyC September 4, 2010 at 8:23 pm

And on top ot that, the US taxpayers give them economic aid to the tune of another 3 billion, which, unlike any other recipient of American largesse, they get at the beginning othe year to collect interest. Israel's economy is in much better shape than ours; thus, Israel should start paying the US back for the hundreds of trillions we've given them since 1949. How do they get away with all this? Ask George H.W. Bush, Senator Charles Percy, Jimmy Carter, or others who have dared to stand up to them, even if it was only once.

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William C. August 16, 2010 at 10:47 am

I support Israel, but it is time to stop giving tem military aid $ when our military can't afford enough as it is. If the Israelis want the F-35, let them buy it with their own money, and if they want to modify it to use certain Israeli missiles (can't blame them as the Python 5 is a great AAM) let them do it as long as none of that technology ends up in Chinese hands.

Meanwhile business should not be taken from American contractors to make them buy the plane.

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not buying it August 17, 2010 at 2:54 am

Why the gratuitous “I support Israel, but…”
I support nobody but the USA. I wish the people in congress could take such an unequivocal stand instead of pandering to tht ****** little country.

As Mike Rivero says: America needs leaders who put the US first, second, and third. No man can serve two masters.

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Jam August 18, 2010 at 3:59 pm

At the basest level, having Israel as a target of hate and plotting in the middle east keeps you from having a terrorist pop out of your cornflakes.

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Joe August 18, 2010 at 4:56 pm

Yeah, you're right. 9/11 happened because we weren't supporting Israel enough. It's not that our support of this country specifically makes us a target or anything.

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brett August 18, 2010 at 10:55 pm

also, is it not true that the recent revelation that they at least tried to SELL NUKES to apartheid south africa in 1975 make it such that the US is not supposed to give them any military aid? Did everyone just forget about that? It means their official denial of being a nuclear power has been officially disproven, and also it means they were trying to spread nukes to rogue states.

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Locarno August 16, 2010 at 11:00 am

…Okay, that's verging on the ridiculous. Disregarding the issue of where the money is coming from (which is not something to do lightly!), why would you (as 'USA Inc' as a whole, rather than LM specifically) spend $4,000,000,000 to 'sweeten the deal' when the deal is worth $2,750,000,000?

Incidentally, wasn't the plan with JSF to recoup a significant portion of the costs with export orders? You may find that this causes trouble down the road on that front (and hence issues with the current unit price estimates) from other cash-paying middle eastern customers (Turkey for definite, as they're a current tier 1 partner and would understandably be rather hacked off if their neighbours got free copies of something they're building bits for, plus possible GCC export customers – Saudi is the big name but the island states aren't exactly short on cash)

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 11:23 am

A stupid decision by Israel! But par for the course for that idiot Barak!
Maybe you Yanks can sell (I mean give) them to Egypt instead.
You think you're the only game in town. Just wait!
As for non-thinking xenophobes like Ryan…have you looked around at how your country in falling apart under your "great" president, while you're spending trillions on 2 stupid wars that will ultimately succeed in failing. And in your addled mind there's no problem with Iran getting the bomb. Just wait!

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hawk666 August 16, 2010 at 12:13 pm

While you're right on those points remember more than 60% of Americans don't support the current administration and most people want Iran stopped now.

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chris August 16, 2010 at 1:33 pm

60%? source?

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ziv August 16, 2010 at 4:48 pm

Pollsters aggregate study has it at 51% oppose BO, 44% support and 5% can't be bothered to choose a side. I could see a statement that only 44% support Obama, but the numbers aren't quite to 60% oppose, yet. Give him a month and we may be there, though.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obam

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Pete August 16, 2010 at 7:41 pm

Why are we talking about this. Do you actually think the Republicans would have given them less? LOL This is not about parties but about subsidies that hurt America. This is a raw egg deal with stinky smell all over. Let them alone and you'll see them sell everything we have ever gave them to the chinese for money or to any one with enough cash. Dont kid yourself. This has nothing to do with Obama but everything to do with a little state in Military wellfare that dont want to let go.

Chops August 16, 2010 at 2:08 pm

As far as just wait-exactly what do you mean-if you don't like America or our military tough.STFU.

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 6:48 pm

if you don't like America or our military tough.STFU.
WOW! you just made my point! Thanks!
Don't be a total A-hole!
I think the US military has some of the finest soldiers anywhere in the world. I'm not so sure about their leaders who continue to hamstring it with cut-backs, unrealistic ROE's and questionable command abilities.
What happened to Howlin' Mad, Lightning Joe Collins, Ridgway, Patton and many many others who knew how to lead. Where are their likes today?
But your arrogance makes you blind to the fact that there are other militaries who are gearing up and may just surpass the US if you don't smarten up and soon. The Chinese are not fooling around. And Putin hasn't lost his KGB soul.
THat's what I mean, so STFU, moron!

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tiredofit August 17, 2010 at 2:56 am

xenophobes? Lest you forget that both these wars are being fought for Israel.

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yesjb August 17, 2010 at 9:20 am

Perhaps you would like to explain your reasoning on that hypothesis.

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carole bennett August 30, 2010 at 4:44 pm

You lost me when you called Obama an idiot!

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Mathew August 16, 2010 at 11:48 am

so now the US military get less aircraft , more workers are trhown onto the streets , more starving families , all to GIVE the regime in israel free F-35`s.

its time to stop the judeofacsists once and for all – we the followers of Hasidic Judaism want to rid ourselves of the blight that has torn apart our country.

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lampk August 16, 2010 at 5:49 pm

Mathew… you make me sad. If you truly are a Chassid, I hope you do teshuva because you are causing a tremendous chillul hashem with your comments.

Fine don't support a political or military decision that is ok… but the way you talk about Israel is almost an anti semetic diatribe…. there are more constructive ways to go about proving your point.

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Ashamed of our Gov't August 18, 2010 at 3:14 pm

Jews run this country and Christians kiss their feet. *VOMIT*

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guest August 19, 2010 at 2:32 pm

Anti semetic ….. anti semetic …….anti semetic!!!!!! come back is getting old as an couner argument. For God sake, he is a JEW, "a true JEW." How did you call him an anti semetic just because he practices what Torah teaching. We need more people like Mathew in this world to revive the Good Jew image before you zionist trashed it. Shame on you for calling Mathew an anti semetic. Look at yourself on the mirror, you might see Count Dracula image.

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TribulationTime August 16, 2010 at 11:50 am

Really I dont understood. It´s not belived. Definitely Israel is The Choosen Country. Theren´t another sample slightly alike this in the history of humanity. Aside current politics in middle east. A country nominaly (Economy, population, military) marginal tells the The one Big Power of the Earth. "Yes you can sell F-15s but You give me 20 planes for free (2750M$) buy my components by 4000M$ (and depend on me to further shellings?) and I guess when I place more orders for free you want share total access with me. Madness or Simple Israel?

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Chops August 16, 2010 at 12:08 pm

Simple Isreal–it's almost like they feel that they are entitled to it.

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TribulationTime August 16, 2010 at 2:40 pm

Right put all others things into other bag. No one can refuse what its a rare arrangement. Think in Germany, no in 1945, in 1970 side by side with URSS; US spend a lot money but another way. Or Vietnam a lot of money and saddly blood too but cleary following other line. Pure How i do friends in The world. No religion no politics no races.

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think about it August 16, 2010 at 12:01 pm

You guys don't know why we prop up Israel? Don't you know who's really in charge?:

From Romans: 25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob.

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm

Ahh, the anti-Israel (barely disguised anti-Jewish) chorus rises again in full volume!
Never mind that any loans are always paid back. Never mind that military aid in the same ballpark is given to Egypt. Never mind that millions if not billions go to Jordan, PA, Pakistan and until recently Lebanon. Never mind the trillions going into Iraq and Afghanistan (oh but that keeps Americans employed, doesn't it?). And what do you get in return? A strong ally? Nope! R&D that gets plowed back into US firms? Nope. Intelligence and recon info? Nope.
What you get is continued hatred and paranoia, corrupt governments that will revert to jihadi islam as soon as you leave and an enduring contempt for America. For all those billions and trillions…WOW!
But its only Israel that takes the heat.
They day will soon arrive when the Israelis will say: "So long and thanks for all the fish". Its the same mindset that you Americans had before WWII. While the Nazis were planning your demise, you went on blissfully ignorant of reality. There was no Israel then, but there were plenty of Jews to curse.
Then the Japanese showed you it was time to take your head out of your ass!

Oh and matthew, I just love your BS! "more workers are trhown onto the streets , more starving families , all to GIVE the regime in israel free F-35`s."
Uh, haven't you heard of the housing market collapse and your sub-prime mortgage debacle? What a total asinine comment, but so typical for you. By the way have you figured out the percentage of production of those planes that goes to Israel…its about 2%
As far as I'm concerned, you can keep your planes. Hopefully Barak will be gone shortly and not a moment too soon…such a serial incompetent! And the deal will be cancelled. One can only wish.

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Anon August 16, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Thank god someone knows what the f**k they are talking about. All these anti-Israel people need to read up on exactly what goes down.

Example: we funded R&D for Israel to build improved anti-missile technology.
People complain we funded them, but no one mentions that all the R&D is handed over to the US for free, or that ships Israel outfits with anti-missile technology is being fielded in the north Mediterranean and relieving NATO with antiquated systems.

People don't understand that a HUGE majority of teh funds offered to Israel are never cashed in, it's for credit only. And a good majority of the fund that ARE cashed in are paid back with interest and in time (in fact, Congress had to change the laws to allow us to loan them MORE money as it was becoming profitable to the US to do so).

Oh yeah, no one mentions that Israel allows the US unlimited access to their military bases (geez… Haifa is practically a US naval base), or that the US gets pretty much unlimited access to Israel's cast intelligence base (which makes ours look childish at best).

By the way people… to put things into perspective. What we used to bail out crooked firms like AIG and such in 2009 was enough to fund our aid to Israel for over 200 years.
IF you ask me, a little money towards an ally and the only Democratic nation in that area (more Democratic than the US if you ask me), is better than pissing away tons more on crooked businesses and idiots who default on mortgage loans.

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bs-sniffer August 17, 2010 at 3:02 am

oh BS! Israel is no ally. Point me to a treaty between the US and Israel. One was offered, but they refused because it would have required defining their borders.

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Maxtrue August 18, 2010 at 11:07 am

as a BS sniffer it must be hard to be around yourself. Yes, Congress supports an enemy.

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imnotstupid August 18, 2010 at 2:51 pm

I dislike Israel I do not support it as a country. Zionism is a racist bigoted ideology which exudes xenophobia. Why are Palestinian Jews treated as less by the government? Why are Sephardi Jews and African Jews and Asian Jews AND Arabic Jews treated differently then Ashkenazim? It’s because Israel is a fascist xenophobic construct. I know many Jews, I’m marrying one. But the difference between them and Israeli zionists or christian Zionists or any zionists for that matter is that they are good honest people who practice their religion how they want to, they respect the people around them and they are for peace not some conflagration of 3000 year old racist ideologies. Being Anti Israel is not anti Semitic. that is fear mongering bully ********. Israel is evil because it is a corrupt state (My US is just as corrupt admittedly) It has nothing to do with the people there being mostly Jewish, and frankly I think we should allow any non Zionist Jews to immigrate to other nations so Israel and the Zionists can burn them selves out with their hate alone as befitting a ****** bag philosophical group. I’d wish the same for any Muslim Christian or scientologist country bent on keeping alive racist and harmful ideas. This is 2010 you bigots I’m sick of waiting for you all to die so your antiquated ideas can be put to rest finally.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 1:52 pm

I don't like when American's talk about our president….but a foreigner lobbing in an American Defense forum is just too damn much. Please give me a break. Sorry that Barak won't start world war III for you, but hey maybe its not in OUR best interest. You sit here whining about how bad of shape America is in, how bad our president is take a look in the mirror. All of Israel's neighbors hate it, including recent allies like Turkey. Israel befriended Iran at a time when they had American hostages. Israel armed Iran during the Iran Iraq war when Iran was America's enemy, how was that in our interest. Israel sold plane and radar designs to china, but that is all fine and good too, because it was Barak's fault.

No we shouldn't be buying any countries' jets, not only Israel, but we should not buy Egypt or Saudia Arabia weapons either.

Another thing, I have and always have felt bad about the holocost, but that doesn't give some the right to act like an asshat. Black people had it just as bad if not worst then the Jews, and since I'm Black I don't feel sorry, nope no sympathy at all. I feel empathy, yes I understand what its like to loose generations after the 100's of millions were killed on slave ships, but we have to keep moving and so do you. The whining does nothing, proves no point, and makes you look bigoted and over zealous.

I am sorry, but America is not Israel's servant….The sooner that Israel understands this the sooner we can have a more constructive relationship. We aren't anti-sementic, we just don't put up with the bs…and we have been getting too much of late.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 1:53 pm

sorry typo lobbying, not lobbing.

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 3:58 pm

Firstly, I'm not an Israeli. I'm a Canadian. If if you have trouble with "fer'ners", too f'n bad. Maybe you tell your airline companies to stop buying Airbus Inc planes.
And I can look in the mirror and I see a country in much better shape than yours in a hell of a lot of ways.
And yes we do pull our weight in Afghanistan unlike those Euros who sit around all day (except for the Brits).
Canada protected your hostages in our embassy in Iran when another of your presidents screwed up royally trying to get them out.
Hey and guess where most of your oil comes from?
Are you going to invade us too, Greg, ol' boy?
Yeah Iran was your enemy and your friend was Saddam Hussein…are you serious???
As for your other comments like 100 million slaves dying, yeah right, utter nonsense.
BTW no one tried to exterminate them. Or blacks having it worse than Jews…
No wonder you have no credibility.
Your remarks here and that of others simply point to the xenophobia that America has suffered for years. Everything revolves around you.
Well, look around…it ain't so anymore.
And before you think I'm anti-American, i'm not. I think America is one of the greatest countries around, second only to Canada, of course. Americans are the most generous warm-hearted, kind and helpful people anywhere. You have a a constitution that is unrivaled anywhere and your founding fathers were wise and forward looking.
I say this from personal experience.
But you sure have this situation wrong. And time will prove me right.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 4:14 pm

Your obviously an idiot. I said nothing about Canada…But I will stick to my guns on mind your own business when it comes to our president. We don't need any other country telling us how good or bad our president is, that is the whole reason we elect them every 4 years. The voters will speak for themselves.

What is utter nonsense? the fact that millions of blacks died in the slave trade…i think not…wasn't even my point the point was stop whining and group…which was for Israel not you because your a Canadian so you say.

And who exactly has no credibility please clarify, me directly or in general? Well in respect to this forum you are right I have no credentials, just posting opinions and comments just like you, or is it a one way street? You know we are allowed to do that here right, I can have an opinion that is vastly different then yours and it is okay. If you are talking about blacks then you are a bigot.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 4:16 pm

Also, why should Israel get the special right to get them for free. Canada just committed to buy some, should they get them for free also? Should we give them for free to all of our allies? Or should it be universal across the board, buy them or don't no freebees.

yesjb August 16, 2010 at 7:02 pm

Firstly Greg, I never
said blacks didn't die on slave ships but it was no where near 100 million…so no you have no credibility. (I did say "credibility" not "credentials".)
I suggest you read up a little. Have you read about the Underground Railway? Do you even know what that is? Do you know about Elridge Cleaver and his book "Soul on Fire" which chronicles the racism and abuse of the Arabs in North Africa where he was exiled.
Do you know that Jews were the first to line up arm in arm with black Amricans in solidarity against racism and bigotry in the Civil rights movement in the US and the first whites to die for it?
So don't call me a bigot when you don't know what you're talking about.
Intelligence, knowledge and wisdom do not have colour barriers!
And no I will definitely not mind my own business when it comes to your President. I'm not telling you how to vote and I don't care. But in case you haven't checked, America is not alone on this planet.
Your President's actions affect more than just Americans and then it definitely becomes my business. And I side with those Americans who feel they have elected an amateur. Why couldn't you find someone like Harry Truman?
But hey, Congress will soon get an overhaul and then 2 years later…we'll see

americanalltheway August 17, 2010 at 3:01 am

You're a megaphony.

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yesjb August 17, 2010 at 2:46 pm

"megaphoney"
Isn't that the thing Rudy Vallee used to sing with? (LOL)
Thanks for the comment though. It says more about you than it does about me.

William C. August 16, 2010 at 2:46 pm

We shouldn't be giving handing out money to any country these days. Israel and all of those Arab nations can buy our stuff on their own dime.

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Robert A. Fritts August 18, 2010 at 8:37 pm

As a American who has lived in Israel and also Jordan, Eygpt, UAE, Oman and KSA I have to agree with you whole heartedly. The USA always benefits from Israeli improvements to US Arms. Most Americans including alot on this network are happy living in Obama land as our right are taken away, as long as they get to watch American Idol and Dancing with the Stars every week. Israel's free aircraft is re-paid for many times over.

I hope Israel would call Obama's Bluff(unmitigated Blind Support for Islam) and say no when we shop our so called Free asistance. For Israel's location, regional enemies, and highly skilled Air Force I think paying the same price for 50+ Rafale 4.0 as you would for 20 F-35s would be a great start. The best strike aircraft in the world would look great with a blue star of David in the wing.

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Speakuporshutup August 19, 2010 at 8:37 am

Yesjb- our housing crisis is no comparison to the displacement of Palestinians.
This is typical of AIPAC and others just like You- divert from the real issue at hand, to justify genocide. Also typical is your lament that we are anit-Israel or anti- Jewish.
No, we are just anti- Genocide!!! And anti-Wrong!

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Veritas 101 August 19, 2010 at 3:30 pm

FYI, the loans never get paid back, contrary to your assertion. Instead, they get forgiven, rolled over (and later forgiven), etc. by our obedient Congress. What a payback (billions) for a few millions in campaign contributions. The Net Present Value is phenomenol, at our expense!

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Chris August 19, 2010 at 9:07 pm

Trodding out that old worn out tactic of equating any complaint against the state of Israel or the great burdens this welfare state places on the American taxpayer into a form of anti Jewish prejudice. Well I have news for you that tactic has worn out is welcome with more and more peopel who are seeing through the cynical use of the charge of anti-semitism as a device to shut down healthy debate about where our nations true self interests lie.

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Infensus Mentis September 19, 2010 at 10:14 am

"Ahh, the anti-Israel (barely disguised anti-Jewish) chorus rises again in full volume!
Never mind that any loans are always paid back."

Actually, they are never paid back. Congress invariably forgives loans to Israel and converts them to "grants". Fact: Israel has never had to actually repay a loan. When the U.S. "loans" Israel money, the eventual conversion of that loan into a grant is written into the loan agreement. This is how Zionists are able to get away with arguing that "Israel has never defaulted on a loan" — because technically, it hasn't.

"Never mind that military aid in the same ballpark is given to Egypt. Never mind that millions if not billions go to Jordan, PA, Pakistan and until recently Lebanon."

Israel, despite being one of the richest nations on Earth with the fourth most advanced military in the world (and with the fourth largest [undeclared] nuclear arsenal) thanks to the U.S. taxpayer, receives a full third of the U.S. foreign aid budget. And let's not forget that the U.S. pays the Arab states aid FOR ISRAEL'S SAKE, conditional upon maintaining friendly relations with the Jewish state. U.S. foreign aid to countries like Egypt = aid to Israel.

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saraydar December 16, 2010 at 8:15 pm

mr, khasar first explain the attack on the uss liberty. why was israel in position to photograph 9/11. What race invented genocide/et me see first there was russia then armenia of course we all remember the king david hotel, wake up american jews the khazars are using you again. You should know Rothschild funded hitler, Marx, Lenin,trotsky just to name afew.

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Drake1 August 16, 2010 at 12:28 pm

For a country that's labeled as a modern day economic miracle, they operate like paupers. It's time for this country to reevaluate the aide we give and the defense obligations we observe; one more area where the Independent Panel, dropped the ball.

The Israelis are capable of taking care of their own defense and settlement needs without U.S. handouts.

These w

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Tom August 16, 2010 at 12:30 pm

You can get mad at the idea of giving a weapon system away for free, but if military aid is going to be given away isn't better to direct where that money is going? Sure its going to look like your giving the Israel 20 copies for free. But then over the next few years who is picking up the maintenance costs on the whole. Maybe they are paying for it, or maybe that is still directed military aid money.
Think of this, the Brits have a new government that has to slash money, and their military is going to have to look where it can cut costs. With costs going up on per copy on the F-35 they will cut planes just to have a few. That in turn raises costs, and other partners like Canada and Australia might get less too. Tail spin of death…. Cost of wanting a kick ass aircraft.
So what you going to do?

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Brian August 16, 2010 at 12:47 pm

Guys, this isn't as sinister as some of you believe. It's simple. We give Israel about $3 billion a year in military aid. They are now going to turn around and spend that money on jets from us. Better than spending it buying stuff from someone else.

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Chris August 16, 2010 at 1:18 pm

Its easy to get a rise out of the poster on this website. Good point made Brian.

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crackedlenses August 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm

Thanks. I was hoping for some sanity….

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TribulationTime August 16, 2010 at 2:47 pm

Good point. I always believe that Bill of military aid was restricted to buy US made items. Now choosen F-35s like years before were M16s or Im wrong?

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xsf August 16, 2010 at 3:54 pm

Superior point. Finally, a moment of clarity.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 4:17 pm

Is buying from the US better, or maintaining our secrets through one our biggest security leaks more of a priority?

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JohnB August 16, 2010 at 5:07 pm

That's a sweet deal for Israel, and a sweet deal for Lockheed Martin, and a sweet deal for the senators and defense lobbyists in the states where the planes and components are built, but is it a sweet deal for the American taxpayer who's wages are going to pay for items that do not benefit them or their states at all? Sounds more like a government bailout for Lockheed/Martin to me.

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Pete August 16, 2010 at 7:34 pm

Brian I think your missing the point a little bit. We should not be giving them 3 billion dollars in military aid. Have you noted how much they brag about their technology!. About their peace of heaven in the middle east! We gave it to them! For how long shall we keep footing the bill? IF they are so powerfull let them fend for themselves. Isn't that what we say about Irak and Afganistan and they are prehistoric in thechnology compared to Israel but NO the Isrealites need the 3 billion! Give them what they give Africa. Water, Food, and Clothing.

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gds August 18, 2010 at 8:04 pm

hehe, yes you give them 3 million and trust me in return you get their technology presented as your own. But shhh it's a secret :)

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cps August 18, 2010 at 2:12 pm

Reading comprehension, Brian:
"The entire deal will be funded by American military aid."
as well as the headline.
also: To sweeten terms of the deal, Lockheed Martin agreed to buy more component parts for the JSF from Israeli firms; at a price of around $4 billion."
Defense.org

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John August 16, 2010 at 1:17 pm

Israel is becoming a huge liability for the USA, in fact without our support and strategic alliance they probably will be gone, We have made a lost of enemies for our all the support they received from us, and the money we give to Egypt and Jordan is once again so they keep the peace treaties with Israel

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Tim Adkison August 16, 2010 at 1:17 pm

God said whoever supports israel will be blessed. So therefore as long as we keep favoring them and helping them out the U.S. Will be blessed. That is if you believe in god. If your an athiest or a muslim then I guess you will never be convinced

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nollig November 4, 2010 at 8:18 am

You are a nincompoop.

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Tim August 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm

When comparing Apples to Oranges, I'd pick Israel anyday. That's because at least the Israelis still have some senses and their political structure might not be perfect but is still the most democratic out of the entire Middle East. I realize the numbers don't make sense, but the overall picture tells you that we'd rather see the Israelis use our military weapons than, let's say Russians, or French, for that matter. It is also logical that one of the best air forces in the region fly US jets instead of someone else's. What's a few billion USD for advertisement cost?

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americanalltheway August 17, 2010 at 3:05 am

typical megaphone response.

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cps August 18, 2010 at 2:13 pm

there's nothing "democratic" about the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

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crackedlenses August 19, 2010 at 2:31 pm

You forget that most of them fled for no good reason during the 1948 war (no, the Israelis weren't going to kill them, or there would be no Arabs in Israel right now), or that Israel was founded then had to defeat the British-trained armies around it with a bunch of farmers. I'd say the wars they won for their survival count for something towards their legitimacy…

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Jay August 16, 2010 at 1:52 pm

Both Israel and Japan were going to buy the F22 until Obama killed the plane. With Israel going F35, Japan will likely follow.

I can think of 3 benefits:
1. advertising the JSF – if Israel has it other countries will want to buy. In the long run LM will sell more planes using Israel as marketing
2. Israel becomes dependent on US to service and arm the JSF = leverage over how Israel uses the planes
3. cool off the Israelis who want to hit Iran now – with a fleet of long range stealth planes Iran isn't quite as urgent a threat.

"leverage" is why we help Israel buy (from us) missile defense and jets. If Israel couldn't afford these items they would be in a bind and would have to be much more aggressive to protect their citizens. This would probably require using ground forces to destroy Hamas and Hizbullah for good. The uproar would likely end the "peace process" which for some inscrutable reason is still considered a vital US interest by our clueless political class in DC.

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@Earlydawn August 18, 2010 at 1:06 am

When was the F-22 going to be exported? It's been restricted by federal law for as long as I can remember.

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praetorian August 20, 2010 at 4:34 pm

Earlydawn is right. got this from Wikipedia

The US Congress upheld the ban on F-22 Raptor foreign sales during a joint conference on 27 September 2006.[28] After talks in Washington in December 2006, the US DoD reported the F-22 would not be available for foreign sale.[29]

So even before 2006 they where talking not to export it.

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Timmy August 16, 2010 at 2:09 pm

The difference is that Pakistan, Egypt, etc only get a small aid package recently and conditonally under the US terms and conditions. In the Israel case, the aids receiver has been having it generously for a long time and dictates what he wants.

Sure, the US and Israel share mutual regional interests. However, US resources must be prioritized for the US first, like now.

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Rich August 16, 2010 at 2:20 pm

A couple of points for the misinformed:

The Military aid is financed and paid back as debt. Not to mention that we dole out Billions of dollars in aid to everyone from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia.

It is in all of our best interests that Israel maintians a significant technological edge on its neighbors. Israel is able to act where the US can not, and vice-versa. We need each other.

Israel has become an indispensable ally in R&D. They were the originators of the UAV, and we are spending the $300 million on their iron dome system, because we want the technology.

Lets face facts, in or current economic climate a couple billion dollars is nothing. 20 F-35s in the israeli air force would do a lot more good than another destroyer doing patrols in the south pacific.

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 2:26 pm

Where do you come up with the conclusion that 20 f-35's for Israel is better then a destroyer for the US? Better for us how? Please enlighten me.

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TribulationTime August 16, 2010 at 2:57 pm

Irom Dome?. US is paying for the tech….Hummmm. Must be necesary like priority to gift, right now, 300M$ for pursue a weapon system which first objetive is protection from homebuild rockets 20 km range. Argue that for the Arrow, well IronDome NO. By the way Israel can give us the seeker of Phytoon V for the long development and not really fix poor Sidewinder 9X.

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americanalltheway August 17, 2010 at 3:06 am

more disinformation from the megaphones.

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cps August 18, 2010 at 2:15 pm

"Lets face facts, in or current economic climate a couple billion dollars is nothing."

no, a couple billion dollars is NOT nothing, a couple billion dollars could translate to sorely needed jobs here.

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Infensus Mentis September 19, 2010 at 10:41 am

“The Military aid is financed and paid back as debt.”

False. It’s never paid back.

“It is in all of our best interests that Israel maintians a significant technological edge on its neighbors. Israel is able to act where the US can not, and vice-versa.”

Fact: Israel has never fired a shot in defense of U.S. interests. However, Israel HAS fired shots AT the U.S. Google the USS Liberty incident of 1967 in which 34 Americans were killed and 170 injured.

“We need each other.”

No, Israel needs the U.S. — the U.S. gets nothing from Israel. It’s a one way relationship and always has been. Israel is in fact a strategic liability to the United States, and any Middle East analyst worth his salt knows this.

“20 F-35s in the israeli air force would do a lot more good than another destroyer doing patrols in the south pacific.”

Bull****. Those F-35s will be used against defenseless Palestinian civilians in Gaza, which does not benefit the U.S. Bottom line: Americans should put America first, second and third — **** Israel.

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TribulationTime August 16, 2010 at 2:25 pm

Ayee, ayeee, ayee. The point here, like timmy said ins´t who is my friend or who is better. Or gifts to buy Wills. The point its the aided dictates the aider.

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David August 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm

Must be nice to have a sugar momma like the American taxpayers. Why exactly are we paying for this?

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americanalltheway August 17, 2010 at 3:07 am

because our politicians are bought and paid for by AIPAC

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John Moore August 16, 2010 at 3:48 pm

So what 2-3 years b4 the tech gets handed over to CH from Israel in a back door deal?

Happened b4 no?
And were they part of the group of countries that funded the dev? I know USA picked up most of the tab but CA, UK AU pitched in too no so ? is did Israel?

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Greg August 16, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Exactly my point couldn't have said it better.

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 7:08 pm

The Chinese will have their own long before that.
Do you not know how many Chinese spies there are in the US?
Jesus, man, wake up!
Do you think the Chinese are idiots, that their brains are inferior to Americans, that they can't do R&D?
Rag on about Israel and the Jews all you want but try taking your head out of your ass once in awhile and see what your really up against!
Oh BTW how many trillions do you owe China now?
Maybe you can sell them some F-35's to cover some of that debt, just kidding…

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crackedlenses August 16, 2010 at 7:21 pm

LOL!

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americanalltheway August 17, 2010 at 3:08 am

megaphone

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Steve B August 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm

I've always been a supporter of Israel, but had to wonder when they started doing business with China. One would think that they would see the obvious conflict of interest in, on one hand, taking the free aid and latest military technology from the US while on the other potentially provided some of that very same high tech gear to a country that we could very well end up in conflict with.

So my first thought upon reading the news was "Hope this technology doesn't end up in China" !.

SB

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Chris August 19, 2010 at 9:16 pm

Never forget who the worst spy in American history Pollard worked for. He was not some rogue operative as was publicly claimed and ask oneself who were these stolen war plans sold to? The USSR. With friends like these who needs enemies.

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Yamash$ta August 16, 2010 at 10:00 pm

Since when has Israel paid any loan guarantees back? As debt? WTF? How is it in all our best interest? The Hasbara hacks on this site are working overtime tonight.

Israel is doomed by demographics and geography, the Zionist fantasy is coming to end. Israel can't win a land war against the Hez. They don't have the stomach in the missile age. The US better start looking for better options than a bunch of twisted Old Testament zealots.

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yesjb August 16, 2010 at 11:27 pm

Yeah that's right on Yamashita
They have already started looking for a bunch of twisted Koranic zealots. And good luck with that. I hear there's a new mosque going up in NYC. Should be pretty impressive.
I hear Britain and Europe or is it Eurabia are doomed by demographics. The Koranic zealots can win the Battle of Vienna all over again without firing a shot. Then guess who's next???
Your knowledge of history is pretty abysmal

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Maxtrue August 17, 2010 at 8:24 am

Oh gee, the hate Israel crowd is back in force. Can't win a ground war against Hizb'Allah? Oh that's funny. Cry disproportionate use of force the next time. That's all you've got. Sure, the US ought to move from supporting the only real ME Democratic society and hitch a ride on the Sharia express. The only thing doomed here is your drivel.

Hacks…lol. Someone hacked into your head and stole your brain and replaced it with the twisted fantasies of Hizb''Allah, Hamas and Qods, the three stooges of the Middle East.

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yesjb August 17, 2010 at 9:24 am

"The US better start looking for better options than a bunch of twisted Old Testament zealots."

Thanks for that bit of nonsense. Thanks also for displaying a woeful lack of knowledge "WTF" Hahaha
Perhaps they should start looking for a bunch of twisted Koranic zealots instead?

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archibald August 17, 2010 at 4:35 am

May 30, 2007 21:24

Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza

By MATTHEW WAGNER

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Former Sephardi chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish WAR ETHICS, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

(Ed. note: So by his own standards collective punishment of Jews for CRUCIFYING Christ is justified)

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu's son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

(How about SIX MILLION? He JUSTIFIES the Nazi conduct, Israel owes Germany a 100% REFUND on those reparations).

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

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Gino August 17, 2010 at 4:48 am

IT'S GOOD TO BE THE JEW.

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George Wanker Bush August 17, 2010 at 5:13 am

All of this while Americans are having to put up with less and less. Roads and bridges crumble, health care is terribly expensive, education is falling hard, unemployment is at an all time high.

Americans have to be the most ignorant and backward people on the planet.

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Ron M August 17, 2010 at 8:22 am

What a poorly composed post.

First of all, the US military aid commitment is long standing, this post makes it seem as if the US taxpayer is suddenly shelling out additional funds for Israeli jets, when in fact Israel is just allocating the aid normally given to purchase F35s.

Incidentally, 80% of that aid must be used in the USA. Further, the production spinoffs mentioned above in the post make it seem like it is all US productions, us jobs etc being handed to israel when in fact the JSF is a multi-nation partner program with many countries producing / footing the production bill and components are being sourced from over a dozen countries.

Israel is slated to possibly buy up to 75 JSFs, why shouldn't it also benefit from what is a small production benefit over the next 30 years of the JSF global economy? Only becuase the post author has a bone to pick with Israel I guess.

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Maxtrue August 17, 2010 at 8:33 am

like 60 years of rejecting Israel's existence needs F-35s to justify? What drags people like you to Defense Tech?

"PFLP-General Command Leader Ahmad Jibril: Our Battle Is Against the Oppressive and Arrogant Forces of the West, "Not with a Group of Jews"

Following are excerpts from a public address delivered by Ahmad Jibril, leader of PFLP-General Command, which aired on Al-Jazeera on August 2, 2010.

Ahmad Jibril: This Zionist entity came to our region for a purpose – to protect the interests of the West in our important region. Our region has geographical importance, and has now become a coveted region of economic importance, after the discovery of petroleum and natural gas.

Therefore, brothers and sisters, our battle is not only against a group of Jews who have come to Palestine. Our battle is against the oppressive and arrogant forces, which want to humiliate and plunder this Islamic nation. They tried to do so in the tenth century CE, when the European kings and princes came in the Crusader campaigns, under the pretext of restoring the Cross to Jerusalem. But they were liars.

[...]

This is our land. We know full well that this conspiracy was not concocted by a group of Jews, who were gathered from all corners of the earth to settle in our land. Therefore, we said that this would be a long and difficult battle. Fifty years ago, when we laid the first building blocks of the armed struggle and the popular war, we said that these Arab armies and regimes would not liberate Palestine. Even at their best, their military capabilities do not suffice for this, and this is without considering their [tendency] to desert and conspire.

We said: How can we confront this onslaught? How can we confront Great Britain, France, and the US? Therefore, brothers and sisters, fifty years ago, we said that our path was one of a popular liberation war, of resistance, of armed struggle. For fifty years, we have carried our weapons, and we know that these weapons are the path to the glory and honor of the nation.

[...]

It was the resistance that achieved victories for this nation over the decades. Imaging this, brothers and sisters: If not for this resistance – first in Palestine, then in Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanistan – what would have become of this nation? We would have become slaves, and they would have used us for trade, and would have subjugated us.

[...]

In conclusion, I would like to say that Mahmoud Abbas does not represent the Palestinian people at all. From where does he derive his legitimacy? He was parachuted down onto the Palestinian scene. He has no history, he did not participate in the struggle, or anything. We hear that like Salam Fayyad, he got 1.5 billion dollars from the US and Europe. That's the only thing that Mahmoud Abbas has." Memri TV transcript

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John Shaheen August 17, 2010 at 9:34 am

We have been at war there for at least 65 years, actually longer. We always hear talk about being an “honest broker” in so-called peace talks. How can we be an honest broker if we “give” Israel super-modern fighters that even our services don”t have? It’s “********” and a “kabuki” dance that goes on forever, ad nauseum. Get real, it’s not going to be a 100 years war but a “1000 year war”!!!

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Argonne18 August 17, 2010 at 9:38 am

We should cancel this sale and all aid to Israel, military or otherwise. It amazes me that our government is so owned and suborned by whorish congressmen ( and president) and Israel firster fifth columnists, that we give away American jobs and money while our own workers and military do without.

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Argonne18 August 17, 2010 at 9:42 am

Oh bye the way. Israel NEVER PAYS US BACK OUR LOANS….Our bought congress always forgives the debt!

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JJJ August 17, 2010 at 10:19 am

This is illegal aid as per the Symington Amendment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symington_Amendment

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Veritas August 17, 2010 at 10:25 am

Oh, I see the disinformation minions are out in force. They are trained to hijack the discussion, on one side or the other, yet give themselves away every time with the same 'sound bites' and racial profiling. Be aware. Do not let them. Peace to all.

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johnny boy August 17, 2010 at 12:11 pm

Is this the Hate Israel Forum.. or did I navigate to the hate Israel very much forum

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MarkeyMark August 17, 2010 at 12:43 pm

Never mind that any loans are always paid back.

All loans to Israel are immediately forgiven per the Cranston amendment. They don't HAVE to pay back.

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Tony Murello August 17, 2010 at 1:07 pm

This from the country that still does not admitt to attacking AGTR-5 (USS Liberty) and killing 30 US Navy men.Never paid a dime.

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yesjb August 17, 2010 at 2:56 pm

Actually it did admit it, apologized repeatedly and compensated the families of those injured and killed. But hey, Tony you need to be able to read to find that out.
Secondly it has been shown over and over that the attack was an accident but I'm not going to raise that issue to the deaf, dumb and blind.
BTW, the attack on the USS Cole was no accident. But I guess the Israelis did that too!

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 6:02 pm

You are right and even the NSA confirm that in 2003. More then that the captin was orderd to stay 100 miles from the the shore, but nobody hear that. The smart thing is to get few miles from an place that is in fighting at that time.
Ihope some of the gyys here will do some homework before they will express there "knowledge"

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AJ-47 August 18, 2010 at 9:32 am

Do you know what they did there at the first place? I'm sure Israel was sorry for that, but the ship was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing in war time.

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yesjb August 17, 2010 at 2:53 pm

"bleed you dry"??
I suggest you check out the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, AIG and Lehman Bros.
Your own GM needed a huge bail-out but at least they have some brains and recovered.
Buit your own industry has sold out to the Chinese.
Your manufacturing industry has moved to China, mexico and elsewhere so people could save a few cents at Wal-mart.
Mean time no one include you noticed that the jobs went with them.
They didn't go to Israel Mr King, but your either too stupid or too Jew hating to figure that out.

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Thebes August 17, 2010 at 2:54 pm

No wonder our nation's highways are crumbling and our tax burden is crushing us.

BTW, it is ILLEGAL to give these plains to Israel, a nation who has NOT signed the NPT but maintains an uninspected NUCLEAR arsenal.

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Maxtrue August 17, 2010 at 6:21 pm

Oh yes, the reason our highways are crumbling and our tax burden so great because we have yet to deliver 20 F-35s to Israel. Can you even see the absurdity of your remarks? Bush wasted more money in Iraq the first few years than Israel receives in decades which then goes back into buying US hardware.

Were it not for that deterrence, Israel might not exist. It is illegal? Do you have any grip on reality?

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@Earlydawn August 18, 2010 at 1:10 am

Israel's continued existence is only America's concern so long as Israel is of benefit to it. The Founders warned about entangling alliances, and this is one of them.

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Mike August 18, 2010 at 5:20 pm

It's not illegal at all. Since Israel has not signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, they are in no way obligated to follow it. Therefore, by having uninspected nuclear weapons, they are not breaking any laws because they are not subject to any laws against nuclear weapons.

Tl;DR you can't hold someone responsible for a contract they never signed

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Susan August 17, 2010 at 3:48 pm

Bankrolling Israel should be put to a vote of the American people. I think most Americans are tired of spending our money on their war machine for these many decades.

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Maxtrue August 17, 2010 at 6:26 pm

You're on. Congress is a strong backer of Israel and the majority of Americans see no moral equivalency between Israel and her adversaries which often are the same ones we face. I just posted what militant leader Jabril said. Enemies target the US. Jabril says Israel is the secondary target and the US along with its anti-Sharia laws and Constitution are target numero uno. Do you get that?

I ask everyone here to get a grip. Take a good look at this: http://www.thememriblog.org/blog_personal/en/2946

Yep, facts are a tough thing to get around.

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AJ-47 August 18, 2010 at 9:29 am

You wrong most of the American OK with this aid and look what I post above

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@Earlydawn August 18, 2010 at 1:13 am

When 20 F-35s fly into Iran and Iran subsequently starts rolling land forces into Afghanistan or Iraq, that "bargain" disappears. And that completely ignores Israel's inconsistency on technology transfer and espionage in the U.S.

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AJ-47 August 18, 2010 at 9:21 am

The F-35 will come to late to attack Iran. That's something that USA will need to handle by itself, or the Iranian "A" bomb will get to our cities.

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nathan August 18, 2010 at 2:48 am

A) why should we be giving so much money to Israel?
B) why should we trust them to not sell this tech to China like they have done with so much else?

Other than these two points I have no issue with the transfer.

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OHNO August 18, 2010 at 6:09 am

aren’t we broke, **** israel, if they can’t afford to bad,our government is betraying us so bad its an act of war. israel should sanctions on them for what they’ve done in gaza. i hope iran blows them off the map. as a mater of fact i think they should just blow each other off the map.

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Trex August 18, 2010 at 10:33 am

America is going to get its collective ass kicked and its democracy, constitution and laws will be destroyed before the year is over. Americas days are over, why, no one gives a damn.

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Jam August 18, 2010 at 3:51 pm

Please. The US conquered the British, survived the rise and fall of communism and has kicked ass in every conflict where it's hand weren't tied. Spend less time on alex jones and you'll find the US is 300 million self interested individuals who will not be oppressed.

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Curtiss L. Poteat August 18, 2010 at 1:13 pm

Don't people realize that some of the greatest spys busted against the U.S. were working for Isreal. Our Congress was elected to work for the American people, not Israel. We need to get rid of the Israeli block in our Gov. and Install supporters of our Military.

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Web Filter August 18, 2010 at 3:21 pm

And the American taxpayer gets the bill… as usual. :/

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Bob August 18, 2010 at 4:00 pm

"Sweeten the deal"???? I thought that was when you throw in fifty dollar floor mats on a twenty thousand dollar car. In this car dealership analogy, the actions of the U.S. are the equivalent of buying the a fleet of cars for Israel and then paying four billion to a Jewish car shop to add on their own merchandise (stereo, wheels etc, to pimp their ride as it were)… all while firing the U.S. mechanics in your own dealership's garage. The deal was too sweet when it was free planes… This is just ridiculous.

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Mike August 18, 2010 at 5:26 pm

I think you need to read the article a little more carefully. Lockheed Martin "sweetened the deal" by agreeing to purchase $4billion in parts from Israel, which they would have had to purchase anyways from other suppliers, such as American ones. So, they would have spent that $4billion on parts either way, they're just agreeing to spend it with Israel instead of whoever they normally deal with.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 11:59 am

USA sell itself to China, go to each shop and you will see "made in China" stop moving the industries to China first, and then complain buying stuff from Israel. with parts from Israel you will not have recall like we have now in the car industries. Do you know were all the part for the F-35 built?

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Bob August 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm

@yesjb

"They day will soon arrive when the Israelis will say: 'So long and thanks for all the fish'."

That is threat? That day cannot come soon enough. I will believe it when I see it. Israel is a parasite.

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Raptor007 August 18, 2010 at 5:24 pm

I don't support Israel, and this is just awful.

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Aj-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:04 pm

Nobody is perfect. and you right it's awful that you don't support Israel. Check in your church if you go there and listen to what they will have to say.

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crackedlenses August 18, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Casey August 18, 2010 at 7:48 pm

Just saw this. Here's what you do.
"Why YES SIR!!, It IS only one billion US….(and shipping and handling will be 6.75 billion)….will there be anything else?

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Robert A. Fritts August 18, 2010 at 8:18 pm

As a US taxpayer I find this a awful event. Having lived over 14years in the Middle East I feel it is understandable. We will buckle to the Israeli demands for their modifications and weapons, or the Israelis will just do them anyway. The US will benefit as IAI and their co-horts workout the bugs of our flawed systems. Israeli improvements are on every US Military Aircraft.

My actual comment is how hypocritical the US Government and US Defence Industry are to support programs that give Multi-billion dollar Aircraft packages away for FREE. Then these same Politicans and Business men protest loudly about Illegal Foreign Government subsidies for competing foreign military programs like Dassault (Rafale)and EADS(A-330 Tanker). Pretty much the Pot calling the Kettle Black.

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Alex August 18, 2010 at 8:30 pm

Israel: the worlds biggest parasite.

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passwordishemingwayN August 18, 2010 at 10:45 pm

So when are the "teaparties" going to get all hot and bothered over my tax money being sent directly to Israel.
SCREW ISRAEL. Im so tired of those scum. Nothing against jews, but Israel is scum. They need to get their damn hand out of my wallet. Those friggin thieves.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:22 pm

Go live in Iraq and you will be happy

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Chuck August 18, 2010 at 11:28 pm

Why is the US paying billions every year to a country that is occupying another country illegally? Doesn't seem right to me.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:25 pm

You need to learn more about the Middle East and then you will understand. As for the millions just to remind you, 80% of that go to the America industries.

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AEB August 23, 2010 at 2:51 pm

Umm you keep telling people to live or learn about the Middle East. I live in the ME and I tell you the average American is completely ignorant about the true circumstances. Israel is constantly victimized when those that attack it are all friends/relatives/descendants of people Israel has killed or persecuted in the past. Live in Palestine for a week and you will understand why are they so angry at Israel.

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shapeshifter August 19, 2010 at 12:58 am

i'm new to this site. is this like the ONION?

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michael August 19, 2010 at 1:08 am

you guys have no idea what ur on about. Its better to fund Israel and let them do the dirty work with Iran, then to send America's military in and do it. Iran is a threat to global security. A theocracy that is allowed to aquire nukes is a massive threat and needs to be delt with. Its better to buy Israel a couple of planes to do the job then it is to send in aircraft carriers and putting them at risk to do it and also threaten american lives. Think about it.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:29 pm

You 100% right, and we need to remmber that no american soldier died to defend Israel.

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Venetian August 19, 2010 at 2:05 am

I want an F-35.

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roland August 19, 2010 at 2:44 am

The entire deal will be funded by American military aid? Revise the agreement pact !! Pronto!!

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steve corcoran August 19, 2010 at 4:48 am

300,000 of your fellow citizens lost their homes in july—but israel gets free money. beyond that i say nothing more

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:32 pm

Complain to your Presidant that gave away 3 Trillion Dollars and nobody know were it goes.

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roland August 19, 2010 at 5:16 am

Between Iran and Israel, I will support Israel, but at this recession time and letting the tax payers money spend for their defenses is too much. We need to take a second look at the agreement pack and make a revision on the agreement made with Israel when necessary.

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roland August 19, 2010 at 5:25 am

On the otherhand, if those military aid were in the form of loans by Israel to us then that is reasonable.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:39 pm

That's OK, but the money that go to Israel go back to USA. The problem is the big cuts that Mr. Gates doing to the Military budget to offset the 3 Trillion Dollars that the Gov. give away.
Israel is not the problem for the recession in USA, the reason is that USA give the industries
to China. Thats way we have recession

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Tommie August 19, 2010 at 6:40 am

I cannot believe in a depression that our so-called 'leaders' would approve this BS. I need my mortgage paid, a few new cars, college paid for my kids, etc. Stop the spending on killing. No more help to Israel. Stop the disinfo from the media and our churches. Get a clue.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:40 pm

Get the troops of Iraq and A'sten and you will get your money back. stop sending the industries to China might help too.

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Bombs away August 19, 2010 at 9:46 am

For as long as we blindly support terrorist Israel with grants, aid and weapons, that's how long the U.S. will be targeted by Israel;'s numerous enemies.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:44 pm

Let me tell you somting. If Israel will not be there all there enemy will come after USA.
Be happy that Israel is there and help Israel to fight the terror.

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Aj-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:12 pm

If Israel will not buy the plan no one else will buy it. If Israel will buy it, more country will buy it.
The problem is that Israel don't need this aircraft USA force Israel to take it. The reason is above.

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@mika2k1 August 19, 2010 at 12:56 pm

The F-35 is overpriced junk. Even with the US bribing Israel to advertise its junk, Israel should have said NO! Israel is committing a grave mistake in not developing its own domestic industry in partnership with Russia, China, India. This abomination is a product of pure corruption. Barak is little more than a US agent and a traitor.

The thieving anglo-american imperialists should get the fsck out of the Middle East. We don't want you here, and we don't want your dollars. Take your dollars and your weapons and your CIA-MSM propagandized arab nazis and get the fsck out!

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Mastro August 19, 2010 at 4:38 pm

we should sell some stuff to the Saudis to pay it.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 5:53 pm

Don"t worry USA going to sell them 84 F-15SE

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Adonai August 19, 2010 at 10:04 pm

HEY! Supporters of Israel ! Did you ever stop to consider that maybe the reason that they are giving them the jets for free is because they are setting the state of Israel up ? Give them the rope to hang themselves (Give them military supplies to be used against the arab countries ) , and when the time is ripe pull the rug from underneath their feet ( Oh sorry , we can't support you guys with hardware anymore because our country is broke .) . Then when the dust settles the globalists take over after the LAST shoa (holocaust) . I've been watching it for years and it looks like everything is going to plan , PAY ATTENTION!!!

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1210 towbar August 20, 2010 at 2:09 am

You all comment on a little bit of sparkle laid out in the sun. It is the darkness so vast and deep.that we all can't fathom, or begin to grasp…Tom Clancy land is where we belong..

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Mada August 20, 2010 at 2:23 am

Outrageous! Israel needs to start picking up her own Tab. She gives nothing back in return save empty lip service and her own on going actions of a massive war against inarmed civilians, children, elderly and stealing Palestinian land. I do NOAA an American believe we should support this Zionist Government in any way. I also am upset we give monies to a country whose peoples and organizations were complicit in the 9/11 mass murder of over 3,000 defenseless Americans and International Citizens.

Since Israel took over Pakestanian Lands in 1948,they have been taking monies from the American Peoples. We need to stop giving billions to Israel and arms, and give the monies to our own peoples. We should be pouring monies into our own peoples needs. Many are homeless, starving, unemployed across America. What is the matter with Obama? Why gun ho for war and selling arms to other countries? I songbird for him, that's for sure. A President who can not care for Americans, but push war and arms while his own peoples suffer is not worth my vote!

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not available August 20, 2010 at 7:54 am

ain't there any sane news coming from our beloved Obama's WH? Remember to vote for him in tnhe coming election.

PS. I bet you,I and all those who are sane enough to compare candidates and v ote for the lesser evil!.

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Mastro August 20, 2010 at 11:16 am

The Israelis were looking at the F35 from day one. They got F15's in '76 before most US units and got F16's hot off the line as well (79 or 80).

Do you really think they were going to rest on the teen series for the next 30 years?

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Fred August 20, 2010 at 1:00 pm

It is ironic that America will pay for these F-35 aircrafts while the economy of the United States goes down the drain. Since the 1950s, I believe Israel has been given over 150 billion dollars in aid, which does not have to be paid back.

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Adam August 20, 2010 at 2:47 pm

sanity and reason on defensetech? shocker! thanks trey.

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blight August 20, 2010 at 3:24 pm

This comments section has just gone totally bats and bananas.

American military aid to Israel has been contingent on it being spent on American arms. If anything, this amounts to a subsidy for American arms manufacturers; as the Israelis dont need to haggle and the arms companies don't need to look at ways to keep prices down.

Israel is not /dependent/ on American military equipment because of these subsidies, at least when it comes to ground forces. They can continue to re-engineer old M60s (Sabra), or M113s (Zeldas?) or T-54s (Achzarit); or build their own stuff indiginously (Merkava and its APC counterpart).

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blight August 20, 2010 at 3:24 pm

I don't know about IAI though. I suspect most of their air force will continue to be dominated by imports. Buying 20 JSFs isn't significant in the jobs department, as it might allow for reduced employment to be continued for a few months or a year, depending on how many people you lay off and how long into the future you stretch production. Think of it as keeping a big factory open for a short amount of time, or shutting everything down to the bare bones and trickling out the JSFs over a long period of time.

Food for thought: With foreign military aid, the Israelis could probably buy a strategic bomber every year. If only we were still making them…

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Dee August 21, 2010 at 9:45 am

Isreal still needs someone else to pay it's bills? Seriously guys [Isreal] develop an economy, make some money, and carry your own weight – eventually this gravy train will come to an end.

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JZHY August 21, 2010 at 6:08 pm

The US provides aid to many countries besides Israel of course. However the recipient countries are generally far poorer than Israel. If you look at Egypt with its dependce on tourism and Pakistan with its internal security problems – it is easy to understand why these countries need our support. The FACT is that the billions given to Israel are in fact NOT repaid. They are often waived by congress. While they may be primarily used to buy American weapons this not always the case. It is unfair to our other allies to offer such deals to Israel. Also no one has mentioned the case with Taiwan. Taiwan is willing to pay for weapons (blackhawks, Patriots missles, submarines, AWACs) however, America does not have the political will to sell it to them. The next cold war will be with China. No nation in the middle east, not even Iran is a direct threat to America at this time.

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blight August 23, 2010 at 12:12 pm

There's also the fact that our aid to Israel is skewed towards military aid, and it's a lot more than everyone elses. Egypt we aid because we want them to be reasonably friendly to Israel, same with Jordan. Saudis too, but also to protect oil and our position in the Middle East. What is Israel's role in America's Great Game?

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KarlKracker August 23, 2010 at 11:01 am

The military aid is a loan and is the same kind of transaction we provide to Egypt one dollar for dollar to each side: Israel/Egypt.. The loan proceeds are stipulated that the country buy American. The loans then facilitate lines of credit to make the equipment and increase our M-1 currency in circulation by the lending banks here in the USA. That is why congress approves foreign aid.year after year.

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nh1 August 27, 2010 at 8:49 am

what???

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Casey September 19, 2010 at 8:59 am

Israel is NOT our friend! They helped orchestrate and carry out 911, dancing in the streets of NY after capturing it on videotape (these Mossad were arrested and let go — NOW THEY ARE BACK LIVING IN NJ). In fact, Israel is our greatest enemy (I didn't know it either until I read how their AIPAC strong-arms Congress who's afraid of them) and many, many articles about their involvement in 911. Israel does MORE SPYING on the U.S. than any other country. AGAIN, they are NOT our friends, although they'd like to keep up the facade. With our country and citizens BROKE, the fact that we're paying for these planes so they can attack Iran and drag us into WWIII makes me SICK! Israelis have even sniped our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and blamed it on others — that's their modus operandi (blaming others).

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watchmanonthewall September 19, 2010 at 10:46 am

Well it is just another example of little Israel leading big America around by the nose. We develop it. We build it and then we give it to them only after we agree to let them build the parts. It really stretches the definition of friend and ally. The AIPAC influence in our government must be countered. But anybody that tries to mention it is immediately labeled anti-Semitic. It's a rigged game…… And Beck and Hannity try and claim Obama is threat to Israel? What a disinformation campaign that is.

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johny huang March 9, 2011 at 3:56 am

if obama rejects israil*s reguest of usd 20 billions aid they will go to china because there is their second home land during ww2 and israil will sell u s hi tech to china with more than it

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TrustButVerify August 16, 2010 at 11:57 am

They get the military aid money either way, just like Egypt. (Thanks, Jimmy!)

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keymanwst August 19, 2010 at 11:33 am

Generally a supporter of Israel means generally a supporter of genocide and generally a supporter of those who "did" 9/11. How about "generally growing a pair?

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Len August 22, 2010 at 8:11 pm

If Israel is agreeing to change certain hardware and software its because they regard their parts as superior to ours.They wont put their pilots at risk. Would they?

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DodgeCity August 16, 2010 at 5:28 pm

Greg, if you do your homework on military purchasing you already know that there are always counter-purchaes. Naturally Canada will get either direct discounts or more likely indirect discounts in the form of partial production. The more buyers there are the better the price for everyone involved. Same goes for Canada as for every other partner involved in these deals.

Naturally the producer is the real winner, at the same time it's a good deal for any branch getting these planes as the already outrageous prices will drop a little combined with better tech.

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Ryan August 16, 2010 at 8:29 pm

I agree with chops. "yesjb" im afraid you need to take some lessons in debate if you are ever going to make a decent point around here. name calling is left for the kids in high school when they have nothing intelligent to say

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Chops August 16, 2010 at 9:17 pm

Exactly where in MY post did I call you a bigot?As far as STFU -well when you start by calling our President an Idiot, then you p*** people off. As far as Canada goes-been there several times on fishing vacations and I loved it.

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Sam August 16, 2010 at 11:40 pm

What is your point?

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not buying it August 17, 2010 at 2:51 am

he is just deflecting – typical megaphone ploy – "see – we are not the only ones"

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TrustButVerify August 17, 2010 at 4:55 pm

That the money will go to Israel in the form of military aid either way. A set amount of military aid go to Israel and Egypt every year, per the Camp David Accords. If it's not in the form of F-35s, it'll be AH-64 spares, or TOW rounds, or rifle ammunition, and so on. Monetarily there's no difference.

For the record I'm in favor of ending this aid, I'm pretty sure the Israelis and the Egyptians can maintain good behavior without military subsidies from us.

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Jam August 18, 2010 at 3:46 pm

They stopped short of stomping Egypt into paste in '6 which would have screwed the balance of power in the region forever.

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realityloses August 18, 2010 at 6:08 pm

thats it?

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james August 18, 2010 at 6:25 pm

So you know what a megaphony is, go back and work on your keyboard. My advice is to get another passport, the ******littlestate will be no more sooner than you think

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Aj-47 August 19, 2010 at 11:49 am

"if Israel will go free, there is no limit to whom they might sell weapons"
So, they aren't good allies

So what the israeli need to think about USA that selling weapon to all the enemies of Israel? Or maybe it's ok to USA but not to Israel?
As for China Israel didn't sell anything to them that can harm USA. The knowladge that China has didn't come from Israel, maybe from USA.

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 12:20 pm

Can't agree more.If USA will dump Israel they can do business with Russia with no problem and get the SU-35 and later even the FAK-FA and sell eberything they want to every country without the USA restricitions

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AJ-47 August 19, 2010 at 6:07 pm

"Gates would rather bury the Raptor than to allow allies to but them."
He is living the office next year and with new Congress we might change thing and America to work again.

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Chris August 19, 2010 at 9:01 pm

Iraq definitely was a looming strategic threat to Israel. To say otherwise is being dishonest or naive.

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