Home » News » Around the Globe » J-20/J-XX in Motion

J-20/J-XX in Motion

by John Reed on December 29, 2010

J-20, it’s real and it’s doing high-speed ground runs. More outstanding pics here.

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{ 137 comments… read them below or add one }

Davis December 29, 2010 at 12:07 pm

I honestly just don't know what to think anymore.


roland December 29, 2010 at 8:49 pm

Just don't. Ignorance is bliss. (humor)


Tony December 30, 2010 at 3:34 am

did you think we would be the only ones lol..


Kevin December 29, 2010 at 12:18 pm

Combo F-22/YF-23?


joseca December 29, 2010 at 12:46 pm

and F35 if you see the intakes


Robert December 29, 2010 at 12:58 pm

Never under estimate the Peoples Liberation Army. They will kick your a$$ if you do.
The beauty of it is that the U.S. is sending the Chicoms the $$ and technology to build these fantastic airplanes.


Tad December 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm

Absolutely! And US companies give the Chinese all their know-how and manufacturing expertise for fear of being denied access to Chinese markets, but knowing that in the long term they will be driven out of business by this practice. And what they can't get from companies, they simply get from all the Chinese workers in the US government and defense industry who are happy to betray the US.


STemplar December 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm

Yah, especially when you are un-armed students or ethnic minorities asking for freedom of speech and the press, then they really beat you down, hooray China.


fat american December 30, 2010 at 3:36 am

got to pay for your welfare somehow :P


greyman December 29, 2010 at 1:16 pm

in the early pics of the JXX are the Airintakes underneath the fuslage, now their beside.
Are there more than 1 prototype?


Ed! December 29, 2010 at 1:18 pm

Everyone look at the left, rear landing gear hatch. Why is the inside part facing outward on the aircraft? If it hinges the way it looks, then the skin coating would be on the inside of the aircraft. If this is supposed to be a stealth aircraft, that would be a huge spot to leave open. I think we are seeing a very elaborate hoax here.


Matt December 29, 2010 at 1:54 pm

Wheel probably folds forward


Justin H December 31, 2010 at 4:18 am

He means the non-stealth covering part of the hatch faces outwards, unlike the hatch on the F-22 and F-35.


Nadnerbus December 30, 2010 at 1:53 am

Hu? I don't think any planes are stealthy with all their bays and gear open.


Ed! December 30, 2010 at 7:42 am

The gear door is what I am referring to. Look at the door. It is white with those metal rods on it. If that is the gear door, and judging by the hinge point, when folded, that part would be on the outside of the plane. If that is a stealth aircraft, you can't have the door for the gear like that.


Bzl December 30, 2010 at 8:45 am

The gear door is fwd and inboard of the gear strut. It looks like the gear swings up fwd, and the door opens toward the centerline of the fuselage. The F-35 has a similar design except the doors swing out and away from the fuselage. It’s kind of hard to see but there should be another landing gear door somewhere around the shock strut.


Ed! December 30, 2010 at 9:50 am

I don't see the other door, even on the other angle shots. Although both sides show the identical looking door.

smoke December 30, 2010 at 1:37 pm

Idiot. it hinges upward.

the hoax is people who believe barry obama and gates are not the chicomms best buds by canceling the F22….


john moore December 29, 2010 at 2:08 pm

Looks like someone has been busy stealing f-22 secrets looks very simular althougha lot bigger but give it time they will bring it into line.

Not good!


A. Nonymous December 29, 2010 at 2:24 pm

Looks awfully large for an air superiority fighter. Whoever suggested in one of the previous posts that it's a platform for launching anti-ship cruise missiles is probably right.


Justin H December 31, 2010 at 4:19 am

Or carries a bunch of bombs and fuel.


DualityOfMan December 31, 2010 at 8:17 am

It doesn't look larger than the F-22, which is huge.


tee December 29, 2010 at 2:44 pm

A few years back LM or Boeing I forgot which had 3.5 Terabytes of data stolen, does anyone remember that, back in 07 or 08? Looks like we found out who stole it.


tomato juice December 29, 2010 at 3:00 pm

It was the JSF, however it doesnt really look anything like it.


Wildcard December 29, 2010 at 7:13 pm

Those 3.5 terabytes of info could have been about anything other than the acutal airframe, so one shouldn't expect a 1:1 replica of the F35.


Lance December 29, 2010 at 3:45 pm

Still thinks a mock up and or it might still not fly. Possible design study. It lacks vectored thrust of the F-22 and it has alot of 90 degree edges so it lacks same stealth capilbilties like the F-22 or F-35. I think this is more of a strike fighter to replace A-5 Fantans more than a fighter plane. I doubt the Chicoms have the capacity now to make hords of them is they do have the capibilites any where near a F-22 or even the older but deadly F-15. The Russians have more threating wepons than china, though china's numbers make it threatning.


Benjamin December 29, 2010 at 4:05 pm

China does not need to make an aircraft equivalent to the F-22. It only needs to be better then the F-15/Su-27. The reason for this is the fact that we have produced so little of the F-22 and that the F-35 is not an all aspect stealth aircraft and with out the stealth it's performance is no better then an F-16. The F-22 even if it was not a stealth aircraft still exceeds the performance of all current generation aircraft.


praetorian December 29, 2010 at 5:09 pm

I dont know about that, no better then an F-16 stuff. The avionics will be far better then the F-16's. Just the situation awareness of the pilot will make the F-35 better then the F-16. And what about the electronic warfare capability, no need for the airforce to buy a
F-18G Growler or like aircraft.


Jeff December 29, 2010 at 5:30 pm

If only we can buy enough of F-35 before we all go bankrupt, assuming the F-35 will ever be ready.

Come on, we need to get her done!


phillip December 30, 2010 at 1:52 am

Sorry to say but stealth and the limited EW in the JSF is going to reduce the massive need for EA-18G’s but not elminate it…. heck even the more stealthy F117 and B2 still needed Prowlers during Allied Force.


praetorian December 30, 2010 at 10:08 am

I hear you phillip, and you may be right about the EW. I also think the F-16 is a great aircraft, not mention its pretty cheap. You know looking back at Benjamin's
comment he says it's performance is no better then an F-16. I think I miss read that, because he is right in that aspect. Although, IMO when its ready, I think the
F-35 will bring more to the table, not in proformance, but in capability.
situation awareness
better avionics
EW –slight
If im wrong, well then we just wasted billions of dollars on this F-35 poject then.

Rob December 29, 2010 at 4:07 pm

The yanks have blown it with that porker the F-35, it can only do mach 1.3


praetorian December 29, 2010 at 5:16 pm

Talk to the Britts. They put up with the Harrier for a decade or longer and I think all variants are subsonic.


Jeff December 29, 2010 at 5:31 pm

Yeah, and now the Brits are retiring all of their aircraft carriers due to national bankruptcy. Maybe they should borrow some dough from the Chinese.


darren moran December 29, 2010 at 7:14 pm

your right we're broke our bad, but we aint as broke as the Americans!!!
Or we wont be in a few years anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much do the americans owe the chinese anyways $700 – $800 Billion.


Old_Bear December 30, 2010 at 8:57 am

Actually, we are building two new proper CATOBAR carriers to replace our thirty year old Through-Deck Cruisers, to give them their original 1960's poltically correct names.
The only problem is that we are still committed to buying the flawed F-35C instead of the Rafele.


praetorian December 30, 2010 at 1:04 pm

I dont know Old_Bear. I dont think the Brits want the Rafele it's over priced for
capabilities. You could buy a Superhornet cheaper with same capabilities.
Or better yet a navalized version of the Gripen NG. David Cameron was talking about mouthballing one carrier right after it was built.

William C. December 29, 2010 at 11:34 pm

Mach 1.8.


Nadnerbus December 30, 2010 at 2:01 am

Max speed has been less of a design necessity in the last generation or so of aircraft anyway, from what I have read. Maneuverability, payload, stealth, avionics/radar, reliability and responsiveness of the engine, etc. have been deemed the more important design criteria, and given the choice, they will dump speed in favor of the others.

How often does a fighter really need to be going mach 2+ anyway?

If you need an interceptor, you buy an interceptor. If you need a multi-role medium range fighter/bomber you buy an f-35 or something like it.


Thunder350 December 29, 2010 at 4:30 pm

Still not to late to start F-22 production back up and scrap (or atleast cut the numbers to buy more F-22's) the F-35 that keeps getting delayed and delayed, and cost more $$$$$$ then even the F-22. I mean who needs stealth strike aircraft if like everyone keeps saying (stupidly too I might add) that we wont EVER in a million years fight a conventional war again. Just stop F-35 production now and start A-10 production back up!


Justin H December 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm

"Thats a huge ***** !" Doesnt look like any side weapons bays, must carry everything on the bottom. MIGHT be a match for F-35.


Justin H December 29, 2010 at 4:46 pm

J-20 = Gen 4.75 Interceptor/Fighter-Bomber


Justin H December 30, 2010 at 6:44 pm

Chinese trolls be gone!


project thor December 29, 2010 at 4:48 pm

looks like it would take a hundred miles just to turn that fat cow around… it's a JSF after Thanksgiving AND Christmas dinner combined…


brian December 29, 2010 at 4:49 pm

I still think it looks like took a YF-23 and went to town with the ugly stick on it.


Maxtrue December 29, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Jeff December 29, 2010 at 5:34 pm

When we were bold… and before we were bankrupt… oh, especially before we borrowed ungodly amount of money from the Chinese…



Maxtrue December 30, 2010 at 12:23 am

no, its really about will. This Christmas we spent .5 trillion dollars. Bring down the cost of energy and drive the mindset of restoring America's greatness. Boldness will return……..



Strange December 29, 2010 at 5:30 pm

the YF-23 Black Widow coming back to haunt you


tomato juice December 29, 2010 at 6:14 pm

It really has nothing similar to the YF 23…


IKnowIT December 29, 2010 at 6:23 pm

It has canards, right? What does that do to stealth?


aso December 29, 2010 at 6:37 pm

A bigger RCS!


Wildcard December 29, 2010 at 7:17 pm

Not necessarily


Prainx December 29, 2010 at 9:44 pm

This is what happens when a YF-23 and a EuroFighter have to much to drink.


Strange December 29, 2010 at 11:17 pm

yeah the next thing your gonna tell me is that chinese agents did not take any pics at the national museum of usaf in dayton, ohio


Jerry December 30, 2010 at 4:21 am

The last time I was in Dayton visiting the museum there was a bunch of mainland Chinese folks there taking pictures. Wright State (the school right next to it) also have a sizable mainland Chinese population as well.


Fighter27 December 30, 2010 at 11:55 am

It's not illegal to take those pictures. Hell, I live less than a mile from the place, I go there all the time. It's not the shape that makes the YF-23/F-22 what it is. It's everything else that the Chinese CAN'T get their hands on that makes it what it is.


Justin H December 29, 2010 at 11:57 pm

Russia just this year made a true 5th gen fighter, I really doubt China could be right behind them.


Justin H December 30, 2010 at 6:16 pm

I see the ChiComs are trolling this board.


STemplar December 30, 2010 at 1:55 am

For those that call for re-starting the F22 or how we need to hurry up the F35 quite frankly you're opinions play right into the Chinese goal in all this. Does anyone here think all this disclosure of an alleged Chinese stealth fighter now is coincidence? There is a new Congress about to be seated in a week that is going to be taking up defense issues shortly. The Chinese are clearly trying to influence where precious US defense dollars are spent. They have zero fear of F22s since we have no where to base them in the Pacific theater to make them relevant. They're fielding systems to push carrier based F35s beyond their un-refueled combat radii. So naturally they want us to spend more money on systems they aren't afraid of and what better way to make that happen then to roll out Sino Firefox a week before the next Congress. The mental nitwits in Washington will rush to build counters to this 'Sino-menace' and to maintain US superiority.

What we need are systems that provide real deterrence and make the Chinese nervous. A NGB with a modest payload and 4000 nmi range would give them sleepless nights. The X47 is a monkey wrench they did not see coming and will be as much of a headache as the NGB. The DARPA solicitation for the hypersonic long range PGM from existing VLS tubes is a game changer in the Pacific. Those are valuable systems. These Tom Clancy/Xbox debates over the dog fighting characteristics of tacair are silly.

Why would l move my carriers within a 1000 miles of China or get in a dog fight, when l can park half a dozen CSG's in the Indian Ocean and put the word out to world wide commercial shipping nothing will be allowed in or out of Chinese ports or l'll board and seize the ship. I would annihilate China without ever dropping a single piece of ordinance.


SGT TRIG December 30, 2010 at 8:09 am

Brillant analaysis , I implore you to email this to the members of the armed services committe. Also consider the political influnce of the military industrial complex, your intelligent insight is a greater threat to corprate amercia then BIN Ladden. I have always quoted ,"If a westerner thinks of the furture 100 years from now ,they are considered visionary, but the common eastener thinks a 1000 years ahead". War is the perfect market, you seduce nations and groups to enter generational economic enslavement financing consumable products (i.e. weapon systems) and kill or serverley mame the few who are willing to preserve freedom,so we are left with docile masses paralized by fear of the corprate elite slave owners. There are three eternal truths of war, both sides must be financed to continue hostilites,there are no victors,only surviors,and the innocent always experience the most long term suffering.


Wes December 30, 2010 at 11:09 am

Wow what magnificently fuzzy-brained peacenic babble, "Sgt Trig". I think WW2 blows your hypothesis that "There are No Victors in War!" right out of the water, though. Go smoke another joint.


William C. December 30, 2010 at 4:28 pm

This concept of "we need to invest all of our money in ships" or subs or any other single piece of equipment needs a stake driven through it's heart. We need new equipment across the board for the most part. While what you mention would likely be more useful if a conflict with the PRC was to occur, we can't let them take the edge when it comes to tactical aircraft either. Don't forget there is a very good chance China will start exporting more aircraft in the future.

The USAF clearly needs a next generation bomber especially as the B-52s and B-1s start to retire in the coming decades. Yet at the same time they need to modernize their fighter fleet. That should include the F-22 and something like what the F-35 was supposed to be. Ideally we could have a larger strike aircraft along the lines of the proposed FB-22 or FB-23 as well. Such a long range strike aircraft could be the 21st century version of the F-111, perfect for long range interdiction and precision strike missions.

When it comes to Navy priorities, the X-47B is a line of development that should certainly be continued for the Navy, but it doesn't have a large payload or range like the NGB would have. Meanwhile the Navy needs to get on track with a 5th generation fighter / attack aircraft of their own. A new generation of supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles should indeed be a priority as you have said. I have my doubts that they can fit them into current VLS cells, but if they can it becomes all the more useful. When it comes to submarines I think for the time being we should just continue development of the Virginia class.


tperk1 December 30, 2010 at 11:36 pm

This is Disinformation coming out of the PRC Intelligence arm. Notice the James bond esq pics. in the bush's. Nobody can get that close to Area-51 and there are people (aviation enthusiasts, conspiracy junkies,etc.,) camped outside the place and they are living in a Democracy; yet in Communist China they stand in the bush's take pics. and submit them to a Chinese Defense web-site (the tree-limbs probably aren't real) Personally I think it's the Chines Fabricated Raptor body with some Chinese power plants. Just to keep our eye's off the ball! I've also noticed in the last five years, they have invented these spectacular counter-measures to our strengths. Namely: The satellite shoot-down, the Air-craft killer, and now Stealth tech. – seems odd!


MikeD December 30, 2010 at 3:16 am

"The DARPA solicitation for the hypersonic long range PGM from existing VLS tubes is a game changer in the Pacific"

LOL DARPA, is this to be used with their flying helo-jeep and exo skeletons?
What i'm trying to say is to get real if you believe DARPA will deliver the goods, they exist purely as a pie in the sky money sink and have no real use.


darren moran December 30, 2010 at 8:20 am

I have two word for you as you type that onto a website, which resides on the "www", Which itself resides, on their greatest invention ever!!!!!!!!!!


I admit the are blue water thinkers, way out there sometimes, but you only have to strike gold once,

I'm sure they have done it more than once though, so far!!!!!!!!!


STemplar December 30, 2010 at 12:47 pm

Uhhhh DARPA gives money to people that invent stuff. They don't do that themselves. So the internet, Predator drones, and Boomerang sniper detection system are pie in the sky? All DARPA, you're an idiot.


William C. December 30, 2010 at 5:57 pm

Indeed. Plus supersonic cruise anit-ship and cruise missiles have been a reality for many years and other countries are working on their own hypersonic designs. Look at the Indian/Russian BrahMos, we could easily achieve the same with today's technology. The question is if we can fit it in a VLS cell.

The range of supersonic cruise missiles is rather lacking compared to their subsonic counterparts however. So even if we do develop advanced supersonic or hypersonic cruise missiles, we would probably have some longer ranged subsonic designs like the Tomahawk in service as well.


William C. December 30, 2010 at 5:57 pm

Ignore my spelling mistakes.


praetorian December 31, 2010 at 10:01 am

Noooo, I see them : )
Dont worry I'm much worse.

ano8 December 31, 2010 at 3:00 am

You are bloging because DARPA developed the grandaddy of Internet


Mark December 30, 2010 at 3:49 am

This Chinese design is a takeoff of current IN-SERVICE aircraft, coupled with a ton of research on their part. Some of you people need to go back and review exactly what the YF-23 looks like.
The 23 was a different planform, never chined vertically, intakes and exhausts were nothing like this, and it was never fitted with any vertical surfaces.

Simply put, after having been out-flown, the YF-22, the contest winner, Lockheed was given the test data from the YF-23 to use in the redesign of the YF-22 into the F-22A. This provision was included in the original contest specs, and since the rules weren't followed to the letter by either side, could have gone either way. Lockheed most definitely did make many major revisions using a combination of the data from both fighter prototypes


MikeD December 30, 2010 at 11:34 am

We all know the Europeans made the internet.


ano8 December 31, 2010 at 3:02 am

Google Arpanet


Mark December 30, 2010 at 3:50 am

Continued. . .
Research Aviation Week and Space Technology's articles and photos of the all-out redo to get the 22 to where it is today. Way overpriced, very difficult to keep stealthy, and extremely expensive to repair and maintain.
The two Northrop test aircraft were mostly made on production tooling, so could have been in service YEARS sooner. Fastener types and count were reduced to a minimum. Overall maintenance hours count was also reduced drastically by designing the aircraft to be maintained in the easiest mode possible. People were actually thinking during this design program! I should know, as I was directly involved.
My credentials . . . 9.5 years Naval Aviation, 4 years working for United Technologies, 18.5 years in Northrop Grumman's black world design and test facilities, another 1.5 years at L3 Vertex working Northrop Grumman and Lockheed's stealth fields and F-22A aircraft, and so far 4.5 years working for the US Government on essential aircraft Rehabilitation. Yes, I have much hands on time on both the 22 and 23, including preliminary testing and final results.
Northrop won the contest, Lockheed won the contract.
Enjoy your New Year!


Guest December 30, 2010 at 9:03 am

Well said Sir, that was awesome.


Maxtrue December 31, 2010 at 9:27 am

They were both good air craft. I did follow the competition and you are right about the info swapping. In your professional opinion, how hard would it be to improve the F-22 and wouldn't a B model mean pretty much a whole new rum and facilities? Has nothing improved on the maintenance front and stealth coverings?

Reply here is to Mark


superraptor December 30, 2010 at 8:36 am

well, if we continue to spend up to 400 billion dollars on the already obsolete F-35, we won't have the funds to make the necessary investments. Therefore, the anti-F-35 debate has some value.


moryphius December 30, 2010 at 9:42 am

f-35………. obsolete?
you must be privy too classied info……..let me guess,you just got off work from lock/martin
and you are also a chief engineer on the project.


ano8 December 31, 2010 at 3:03 am

superraptor belongs to ELP clan


Carol December 30, 2010 at 10:21 am

We civilians are scared of our own men and woman in the military, because of the rumors you guys and gals are going to nuke your own people. My question is what do all those who wish us harm, going to do when the elite turn on you after you've killed us ?


ano8 December 31, 2010 at 3:04 am



DI BO CHET B/1/9 December 30, 2010 at 10:28 am

I find it odd that this plane is almost identicle to ours. Are we sharing techknowledge with the chi coms? Direct, misdirect??


Carol December 30, 2010 at 10:34 am

Well I can only suppose the silence is a confirmation to my fears.
Thank you all.
May God Bless and keep you well.


Wes December 30, 2010 at 12:28 pm

Oh come on, Carol. Everyone in the military has Family who would also be killed if they were told to "nuke their own people". I just hope you are only trolling, and aren't actually gullible enought to believe that shite.


@Earlydawn December 30, 2010 at 11:31 pm

What on Earth are you talking about?


Jay December 30, 2010 at 10:51 am

Yes, more F22s would be nice. More Japanese F22s, based in Japan – where they can deter aggression and actually reach into China and do some damage if needed. Japan wanted to buy the F22 in large numbers to be their primary fighter, but Obama &Gates nixed that idea.

The US should be building advanced offensive weapons like the X47B, long range fast cruise missiles and PGS systems that fit in the existing navy VLS. Also ASAT and network warfare systems. We should be able to hack the PLA network, blind their satelites, and bomb their airbases without needing a boot on the ground or a carrier within 900nm. When they counter attack let the locals shoot down their jets. We have bigger fish to fry.

We should let Japan, Taiwan, and Korea buy and fly defensive fighters while we develop platforms and capabilities that will seriously degrade China's ability to make war.


Wes December 30, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Yes, Japan and Australia should be allowed to buy F22s. Taiwan too, just to twist China's tail!


msnmars December 30, 2010 at 7:14 pm

It is politics. If selling F22 to Taiwan, can it survive safely to receive those jets? Now, US does not have enough money to do this. You can imagine, but it will still be a dream.


Han Solo December 30, 2010 at 11:15 am

Lets just wait until they are done and then buy some ourselves.

We buy everything else from China why not?

I bet they are cheap, we could probably get Walmart to import them for us.


Kurt December 30, 2010 at 11:19 am

Carol, where the heck did you get the idea that our military is going to kill civilians with nukes or anything for that matter? That is liberal lies to breed fear and make the US Military & Vets "BAD GUYS". To make it easy, we are sworn to protect our own, the constitution, and other ideology…Wow, that is a wild one? I recommend you really take a good look at who you will vote for in 2012 in hopes for smaller government powers and to take back to our rights as a free country that we were founded under. It's not your military that you need to be concerned about…Just read above about foreign countries getting their hand on Tech that our Government controls.


Maxtrue December 30, 2010 at 11:36 am

As an army brat one would have thought Carol's view was corrected a while back. Kool Aid is a dangerous thing Carol. Where is your ability to judge fact from fiction?

And to another post on the first page. If the F-22a and even the F-22b is such an unimportant waste of money. Why not let Japan and Israel help build and deploy them sharing the cost? I'm waiting fro someone to again accuse Israel of helping the Chinese even more than we have with our nuclear and tactical leaks going back 15 years. Today is a new report Israel used an F-35 to take our Gaza militants. Now if this is true, perhaps the Israelis can bring some order back to the program as they would have beaten the US in actually fielding an F-35.

Let's be clear…Gates got caught by Russia and China with his pants down. I would love to hear from an expert as to when the X-47 will be ready to penetrate advance defense from long range bases and deliver munitions capable of getting past defenses. On one hand many experts here laugh at DEW and Rail being ready anytime soon, but tout alternatives to things like the F-22b with drones and missiles that don't yet exist. Maybe even the new LCSs can serve as such an alternative………I'm joking of course.


DaveC December 30, 2010 at 11:56 am

Its one thing to make something stealthy. Its another to make it fly. Then another to make a maneuverable fighter out of it.

Don't be so easily impressed with the shape or look of something. It will take them some time to make a viable fighter out of it. And it shouldn't surprise anyone to see it, just like the PAK FA. The appearance of these prototypes says one thing, that a stealth counterpart to the F-22 has been a top priority for both countries for some time. They would be fools to not have placed this high on the list.


crazyhorse December 30, 2010 at 3:45 pm

if the politicians aren't careful , this could lead to world war III !!!!!


Maxtrue December 30, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Exel 220 December 30, 2010 at 6:12 pm

Plus the U.S. has a steady budget for it's military regardless of how flaky the economy is. It has it's own black budget thanks to its support for illegal arms sales to political/extreme governments or groups so the U.S. can practically spend as much money as it wants because the next year there going to be getting more. Now to settle something, China believes the key to defeating the U.S. in the Pacific Rim is by initating counter-counter projection capabilities.


Exel 220 December 30, 2010 at 6:13 pm

So they can block the Carrier all they want but sooner or later they will find they're way in. Next the F-22A is the supremelogical fighter of the 21st century and will continue to be for quite sometime. The Chinese have commenced an arms race of unfathomable proportions so the US must be prepared because if the ChiComs can make someting like this they sure as hell will be make it able to fly sooner or later. The question is just how stealthy? For now the U.S. will still be able to pull the stealth card in any forseeable conventional war within the next 20 and if lucky enough 50 years but remember these two quotes…

"The supreme weapons of today, are extinct and obsolete by tommorow" -Unknown
"I don't know what World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" -Albert Einstein


Exel 220 December 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm

BTW I don't believe in nationalism or anything of that sort.


asdf December 30, 2010 at 6:55 pm

and i seriously doubt there will be any war in the near future, esp. against the taiwan (due to the us backing).
and please don't give me the we thought the same at the end of the great war…
that was before countries possessed the button to effectively delete the adversary from the map… (MAD).

or is china the new soviet union and the military is using them as an "excuse" to buy buy buy?


asdfggghhj December 30, 2010 at 8:51 pm

look at what happened to Georgia?


asdf December 31, 2010 at 11:22 am

didn't they start the mess?


Justin H December 30, 2010 at 7:09 pm

I wonder if this thing has 3D thrust vectoring.


tperk1 December 30, 2010 at 11:42 pm

Exactly! all it is is Disinformation their feeding us! But whose feeding it to us. i especially like how the pictures are taken from the bushes in Communist China. I wonder how come nobody ever got a picture of our stealth's at Area-51 (from the bush's) in the land of the free?


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 2:42 am

Uhhh because within our lifetimes they machine gunned students asking for basic freedoms we cherish, they block words like freedom in search engines, and they threw a woman into a labor camp for a year for forwarding a sarcastic critical tweet about the government. Those 3 off the top of my head why l want China to be properly deterred.


Justin H December 31, 2010 at 4:53 am

We just want to stay #1 whats so wrong with that?!


Taki O December 31, 2010 at 8:05 am

> At first they claimed it was a PS when the pictures were blurry.
>Then they claimed it was a good PS when more and clearer photos came out.
>Then they resorted to calling it a mockup when even more photos came out with different angles.
>Finally they grudgingly admitted it was the real deal, BUT somehow it is a copy of of the Mig 1.44/F-22/F-35 and/or that it is deficient in any multitude of ways.

I'm sure the Chinese will go away if we bury our heads in the sand. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of Chinese military modernization would of seen this coming. I have been screaming for years that America MUST sell the F-22 to Japan because the Chinese are FAR more advanced than you realized. Now it finally happened. Be grateful it wasn't in a middle of a war when you found out about Chinese capabilities.

Sun Tse's maxim: KNOW YOUR ENEMY.


Vitor December 31, 2010 at 8:43 am

Scary how people here seems to love the idea of going to war. War is a waste of resource and lifes, people should be glad that China is strong enough to make neo-cons think twice about sending american citizens to die.


Maxtrue December 31, 2010 at 9:20 am

Obviously your reading skills are a bit lacking. Where do you hail from, China?


Justin H January 1, 2011 at 12:01 am



STemplar December 31, 2010 at 12:03 pm

Who said anything about loving the idea of going to war. You're either a troll or a non student of history. Turning a blind eye to potential adversaries and doing nothing to prepare invites military adventurism. It causes wars and history clearly shows that. I love the idea that my country has a razor sharp military with a logistical capacity that is second to none. It makes countries that machine gun students and lock people in labor camps for forwarding tweets think twice, and that's good.


prometheusgonewild December 31, 2010 at 12:21 pm

Yes, war is very, very bad.
Thank you Vitor for setting us straight.


Eddie December 31, 2010 at 6:40 pm

Pictures and actual performance are two different things. The Chinese have also proven they cant build old technology airplanes in any numbers capable of replacing even a fraction of their 1960's era aircraft. They will build a few of these for show and the US will respond wwith building more F-22's and start actively working on the next generation fighter


rebussss January 1, 2011 at 5:50 am

Another theory.
The Chinese build a mock-up, then allow "secret" photos to leak onto the web and the West goes apeshit.
FUD, pure and simple.


@Earlydawn December 29, 2010 at 1:43 pm

The bays are my question, too. Can't see much depth in the airframe for ordinance.


Jeff December 29, 2010 at 5:28 pm

- OK… You can't really "stealthize" a non-stealth design like MiG 1.44. Assuming this new Chinese bird is indeed stealthy, then it would mean that it was designed from scratch, since the shaping involved with designing a low observable design alone would dictate nothing less.
- Reliable Chinese jet engines don't exist, yet… But I wouldn't underestimate the Chinese as we once did the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. Remember that we all thought the Eastern Europeans just came down from the trees and therefore couldn't possibly design a reliable jet engine? Right, Vlad?


Ben December 30, 2010 at 9:13 am

a "fat" airframe actually has better lift characteristics than a "skinny" airframe.

for speed the airframe can be any shape you want, as long as the cross sectional area conforms to the "area-rule" of a sears-haack body.

This is why the B-1 can carry twice the bomb load of a B-52 with a similar max takeoff weight, despite being 40ft shorter, having 48ft less wingspan (106ft less when swept), and having 2000sqft of wing area to the b-52's 4000.


STemplar December 29, 2010 at 7:51 pm

Yah, and they lost the Cold War because they couldn't see the big picture. So how is China ever going to really compete with an overwhelming fossil fuel dependency, a limited vulnerable coast line, vulnerable petroleum industry, stretched basic needs items like water, and a pending demographics tsunami that is going to overwhekm their social infrastructure probably before we even finish picking a gen 6 fighter?


VladTheGreat December 30, 2010 at 4:42 am

“You can’t really “stealthize” a non-stealth design like MiG 1.44. Assuming this new Chinese bird is indeed stealthy, then it would mean that it was designed from scratch”

J-20 airframe is definitely based on MiG 1.44 concept – delta wing, canards, two “dual” vertical tails, two engine. Nose and canopy design looks like its’ was “copy/pasted” from F-22, but basic ideas for J-20 came from Russian design. I’ve heard that some MiG engineers helped them.

“- Reliable Chinese jet engines don’t exist, yet… But I wouldn’t underestimate the Chinese as we once did the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe.”

Yeah, they are keep trying to improve quality and relibility of their clones.

“Remember that we all thought the Eastern Europeans just came down from the trees and therefore couldn’t possibly design a reliable jet engine? Right, Vlad?”

Soviets/Russians had great minds, but did not had good enough technological base. China does not have good enough minds. They are techological thiefs, not inventors. I believe that money can not solve all problems of their military industry.


STemplar December 30, 2010 at 1:13 am

He's kind of a doink that fails to acknowledge the US is hardly placing all its eggs in the tacair basket. There is a complete lack of scope of the amount of firepower and diversity of firepower that China would have to address in a conflict with the US. A combined arms approach of SSGNs, X-47s operating beyond China's range to do anything about it, waves of JASSMs from legacy bombers, potential PS from VLS upgrades, China would need a hell of a lot of everything to counter that. More doom-saying without any critical analysis of the amount of capability the US military has.


Ron December 30, 2010 at 3:12 am

What do you expect coming from Eric Palmer. doom-saying is all he can do.


Ed! December 30, 2010 at 9:48 am

That is what I am speaking of yes. It strikes me as a very odd design, especially since I can't see how the wheel itself would be covered in that arrangement/


Kurt December 30, 2010 at 10:46 am

"we need to get off out rear" – was meant to read as "we need to get off our rears" (SORRY!).


STemplar December 30, 2010 at 12:35 pm

Japan has had Chinese subs sail between their island chains, get into a diplomatic row over the spartleys, sit their and not do a thing about obvious Nork insanity, I'm not sure how much 'dicier' it gets short of a shooting war. The Japanese public sentiment is overwhelmingly against US presence in Japan anymore. We are there now and why haven't we already positioned Raptors in Japan, or at least Guam? Even from Okinawa they are at the outer edge of their combat radii, they would still need re-fueling and that is the Achilles heel identified in the Rand study, and the Chinese know it. There isn't going to be any penetration of Chinese air space with a platform that runs of go home gas at the Chinese shoreline. It is a plane designed for the European theater, not the western Pacific.


ano8 December 31, 2010 at 2:55 am

Eric Palmer want F-16 .


tomato juice December 30, 2010 at 8:48 pm

I sir second you.


winops3 December 31, 2010 at 1:22 am

Luckily China doesn't have a neighbor like Mexico…


praetorian December 31, 2010 at 10:09 am

On the same token, China is not bogged down in two wars.


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 2:45 am

They have worse, North Korea, I wouldn't trade.


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 2:48 am

We don't have anywhere near the overseas footprint we used to. What do modern nukes do for us if someone calls our bluff? We end the world to prove we aren't kidding.

I've got a better idea, reduce government spending to .25% below projected growth and the budget balances itself over time. Pretty simple.


ano8 December 31, 2010 at 3:06 am

What are you smoking???? You should stop using crack.


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 3:10 am

The X47 has the exact same internal stealth payload as the F35 and almost 3x the un-refueled combat radius.


praetorian December 31, 2010 at 9:43 am

STemplar we have had F-22's at Anderson AFB & Kadena AFB. as part of the
regularly scheduled Air Expeditionary Force rotation.


Maxtrue December 31, 2010 at 9:59 am

For the money he thinks is some cases they are smarter than F-35s which I don't see being fielded anytime soon unless the Israelis start prepping them, or the Chinese…..lol.

Just look at the sales so far for F-35s. Even Israel didn't take twenty offered for free. Now they would take Raptors in a heart beat and will eventual take the lesser alternative: F-35s.


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 11:37 am

That's not what I mean, why not retire the F15Cs that are there and station the F22s in Japan or Guam.


STemplar December 31, 2010 at 11:52 am

Actually the bomber program may not be totally public, but I'd wager the 2 or 3 billion $ black program Northrop's been working on isn't for a new toaster.

Naval Raptors aren't going to happen, like I said, it is easier to just design a new plane rather than make a Raptor work from a carrier.

I would also counter that it isn't the F22B that worries the Chinese, it is a mid range stealthy fighter bomber that worries the Chinese. They simply used the model as a show piece. They are concerned I would think over the development of an aircraft that could deploy from Guam and deliver payloads without needing to re-fuel.

The X47 isn't going to deliver hypersonic weapons or DEW, it's going to use the same weapons a F22 or F35 would, its going to cost 30 million $, have the same payload, be stealthier, have 3x the range, be able to act as a mid air re-fueler, and there won't be any funerals in Arlington when we lose one.

I hate answering questions with questions, but when do you think I can see a picture or video of the Sino Super Fighter flying? When do the Chinese plan to deploy in counter to the USN, they were apparently too chicken in this last Nork hiccup? When are they going to make this military move against Taiwan? Seems kinda silly to wait for the US to finish Iraq and Stan and let us further develop systems if they actually plan to use a military option.

We are $14 trillion in the hole and spending hundreds of billions on aircraft that aren't suited for a future that is arriving as we speak, to fight an enemy that is kind of questionable as to how much of an enemy they actually are, all the while real world scenarios keep happening that we pretty much knew would and didn't gear up for, all comes together to strike me as a great big failure.


STemplar January 1, 2011 at 6:51 am

We're talking about China, and China doesn't hold that much debt, it's like 5 to 7%. It really provides them zero leverage other than Obama pandering to them to keep buying more debt so he can buy off votes for re-election. I'd say debt reduction has become more than a slogan and both parties are aware they've got to start cutting. There will be fighting over what or how much, but not if anymore.

The economics and politics of US debt also has nothing to do with deterring China militarily and why. The Chinese government is a corporate oligarchy bereft of any morality at all. They brutally suppress their own people and seek to bully their neighbors. They are trying to infringe on freedom of navigation of the high seas. They also refuse to cast aside the biggest tyrannical pigs in North Korea sentencing the 26 million victims in that country to who knows how many more decades of ongoing crime against humanity. They must be countered, period.


Mark January 3, 2011 at 5:17 pm

You are so childish.


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