It’s official, China’s stealth fighter, the J-20, took its first flight today. The jet flew for about 15 minutes over the same airfield in Chengdu where it conducted high-speed taxi runs last week, according to the AP.
Sure enough, the plane’s first flight coincided with U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ visit to China aimed at fostering closer defense ties between the two nations.
Apparently, Chinese officials revealed the jet in an effort to “to send the message that Beijing is responding to calls from the U.S. and others to be more transparent about its defense modernization and future intentions.”
Or, as former Air Force Lt. Gen. Tomas McInerney wrote on Fox News’ website recently:
This is another move by the Chinese to subtly send the current American administration — and our Asian allies signals — that they are investing heavily in military capabilities that will dominate Asia in the future.
Here’s an interesting excerpt from a New York Times article on the flight:
Mr. Gates said he directly asked Mr. Hu why [the flight] was conducted during a three-day trip that is meant to smooth over rocky relations between the United States military and China’s increasingly assertive armed forces.
Mr. Hu replied, Mr. Gates said, that it “had absolutely nothing to do with my visit.” Asked if Mr. Gates truly believed that, Mr. Gates said yes, but acknowledged he had questions about whether the Chinese military was acting independently of the political leadership. “I’ve had concerns about this over time,” Mr. Gates said.
Maybe China is being more open about its defense equipment modernization, but who knows what it intends to do with all those high-tech weapons? At a minimum, China’s new arsenal is being developed to keep 21st Century threats far from its shores. Still, how many times have we seen reports that it plans on using new-found military might to expand its influence throughout the region? What this means remains to be seen.
Here are some more great images of the jet in the air.
Here’s video of the flight.
{ 116 comments… read them below or add one }
Maybe now Secretary Gates will realise that the most advanced fighter in the world-the F22 should remain in production-w/the Pak50 and the J20 the US will quickly fall behind and most everyone says the F35 is no match for either of the foreign stealth planes.Supposedly the cost of the F22 will drop to 70 or 80 mil. w/the purchase of 70 more planes-I think we should build them and also sell them to our most trusted Allies before we get so far behind our future antagonists that we can't catch up.
We shouldn’t have to be worried about J-20, i’d say it’s just a 75% stealth. Lack of vector engines and very primitive design is nothing compared to our stealth jets.
Considering we have a 14 trillion dollar deficit (if you are curious, everyone in the US would have to give the government 43K to pay that off), the last thing we can do is spend a lot of money to counter these perceived threats.
We do not know what the Chinese have in mind.
At this point we just need to get the F-35 into production. Even if it is a really slow production. Having the F-35 on the Carriers will go a long way……
With the debt we have, Military spending will be the first thing cut. Reforming Medicare will happen just about the time all the idiots in Washington realize they cannot pass the buck onto the next generation.
Heaven forbid if they actually run the country and not their reelection campaign…..
Either way, if the F-35 is not in production in the next couple years it may never happen……
One way to get this to happen is to pressure south Korea, Japan and Taiwan to buy a bunch of them.
Lets face it, we are too broke to keep China from trying to remedy every perceived insult from their neighbors they have gotten in the last hundred years…..
Thanks to our idiotic tax policies and theirs; companies in the US are falling over themselves to lay people off here and build factories there. Like it or not our economies are interwoven and the best thing that can happen is for everyone to stay calm and do not do anything stupid.
Unfortunately insular, Asian, communist leadership is hard to predict. They get frightened and run unarmed students over with tanks……
the F-35 is already outdated. Why waste money on it. 500 upgraded Raptors will be less expensive and more lethal in the air-to-air role
If the US really shred the production facilities for the Raptor and hopes it can reproduce tooling years from now, they are as smart as their predictions about Chinese capabilities. I will spare everyone the latest from Palmer. If the Chinese need until 2017, I rather doubt any NEW BOMBER will be ready by then…lol. I guess the US wastes in defense spending, what China spends for all defense spending. It is a CRIME we don't do a better job. I still don't understand the logic of sinkable LCSs with poor refueling ability and limited numbers of stealthy attack air craft. The Navy gave up a two engine jet so the Marines would get dissed their F-35B.
The Chinese have proven we are lacking in Intel. A new bomber? Really? What decade? What this gives China besides future exports is something that can penetrate some lines of defense and deliver advanced missiles be they jammers, nukes, hypervelocity or ship killers…..
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
If the US really shred the production facilities for the Raptor and hopes it can reproduce tooling years from now, they are as smart as their predictions about Chinese capabilities. I will spare everyone the latest from Palmer. If the Chinese need until 2017, I rather doubt any NEW BOMBER will be ready by then…lol. I guess the US wastes in defense spending, what China spends for all defense spending. It is a CRIME we don't do a better job. I still don't understand the logic of sinkable LCSs with poor refueling ability and limited numbers of stealthy attack air craft. The Navy gave up a two engine jet so the Marines would get dissed their F-35B.
The Chinese have proven we are lacking in Intel. A new bomber? Really? What decade? What this gives China besides future exports is something that can penetrate some lines of defense and deliver advanced missiles be they jammers, nukes, hypervelocity or ship killers…..
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
(if this posts, please disregard others awaiting approval)
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
F-22 tooling is being preserved.
(the second half of my original post above that didn't make it past approval)
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
We need to sell new production F22s to Australia and Japan, RIGHT NOW.
Then after Obama is turned out of office in two years, the production line will be up and running, ready to accept new USAF orders.
Hey, remember that Obama is so anti-F22 that he refused to give a speech in front of one in Alaska?
Farewell anti-US POS, and Welcome new F22s to our forces!
We can't do that because it would save 50,000 US jobs and reduce the per unit cost of the F22, and expose Gates and Obama as incredibly short sighted on the F22 cancellation.
Japan and Israel were ready to buy the F22 two years ago. Now Japan is still looking for a new fighter and Israel is buying ONE squadron worth of F35.
If you look at Air Power Australia you will see that they really want the F22 and they think it should be the only fighter they should buy.We need to produce the F22 and sell it to our Allies.
APA does not represent Australia.
I was referring to the tactical analysis of Air Vice Marshal Graf- Ret. of the RAAF.
here's a thought, spend your time and money on ways to compete yourself out of the debt you got yourself in to. that would really scare the chinese.
Absolutely. Energy is a national security issue. The F-22B might not be a smart move at all. What good is an expensive J-20 production line if better technology delivered by a healthy US economy can destroy them with impunity. The great strategic question remains the US economy. Then superior technology can be fashioned into a New Bomber able to withstand the harsh DEW investment of the future and unload advanced missiles the J-20s and Chinese air defense has little protection against.
The question here is our ability to anticipate, our Intel and our resolve to follow through on promises. Again, what we waste in defense spending China spends on its whole defense budget.
it's really a good news.
there is no right or wrong in the world, finnal power makes everthing.
it's history;
what's your feeling if we have stronger power and send air carrier to the bay to your home?
that's the feeling of us right now
respect first then get respect, let's see 20years later.
i don't think the F-35 can go against that… and great going picking the raptor over YF-23
My god that plane is ugly from every direction! We need to restart the Raptor production pronto so they can beautify the skies by shooting these hideous beasts down.
tax chinese imports, they devalue the currency anyway.
and punish the hell out of American businesses setting up shop there!!
We've given enough ideas in manufacturing and tech to china through
corp greed period!!
nuff said..
Simply add a value added tax which will decrease consumption including consumption of imported goods and set up tax free enterprise zones in the US. It would be relatively simple to do
Companies will cry that no more slave labor makes business so hard. Shareholders will cry too. What are the travails of the working class to the stockholder?
Suddenly every American is up in arms because you've made practically every single basic manufactured good far more expensive. Don't complain when good ol' American capitalism bites us in the you-know-what. If there was a simple solution, you can bet it would have already been tried. Our economies are inexorably tied together, whether or not we or the Chinese want to accept that.
Cripple businesses operating in China, you probably create a small recession as businesses try to recover and set up new manufacturing plants elsewhere (India, Mexico, unless you're taxing ALL imported goods). Say bye-bye to iPads and many other things electronics for a while, as they come almost completely from out-of-country.
Thing is, China doesn't want us to lose anyways. They want us to stay out of their turf, which we may or may not accept (although at the end of the day (or century), they've got numbers on their side), but US economic collapse makes China lose a lot of the money it's invested in our country.
"At a minimum, China’s new arsenal is being developed to keep 21st Century threats far from its shores. Still, how many times have we seen reports that it plans on using new-found military might to expand its influence throughout the region? What this means remains to be seen."
This is pretty clueless thinking from Defensetech. I wonder what threats China intends on keeping far from its shores? Could be the USA which has kept the peace in Asia for 60 years. Or were you thinking of some other country? If we are the threat, then breaking the peace can be their only intent.
How many times have reports surfaced that military power would be used to expand influence? Precious. You do read history don't you? You're surely aware that expanding influence is one of the main purposes of a military with regional or global reach? Proven by over 2000 years of history….you are aware of this…aren't you?
Let me clear up your muddled thinking with a few observations.
These transparencies you note will highly motivate countries in the region to evaluate whether America is up to the challenge.
Given our fiscal malfeasance under the Obama Administration and Obama's reputation as a weak president, that question won't be laughed out of ministries all over Asia. Five years ago it would have, five years from now we might not have the allies we have today in Asia.
And what makes US influence better than chinese?
Move to China, criticize the government on any website. You'll soon see the difference.
Given your question, I hope you do move there and take my advice and do it quickly.
Tell that to Wikileaks.
Or any other whistleblower, who is assigned a motive of "money" or "liberalism" whenever a conflict exists between whistleblower and the United States. It used to be communism and before that, anarchism, and before that, monarchism. Scapegoating is fun.
We must reform now we will be conquerd by russia or china remember history will repeat itself
China’s military build up should be no surprise as that nation grows on every level, there will be a need to protect their own interest, just as the US does! The worlds economies are to intertwind and all out war will hurt a lot of countries economically…. except for third world countries. Also building military hardware is way to create jobs, and keep people working; a lot of people are making good money off of the current wars.
Raptor can't restart, america has too much debt remember
And yet they are talking about raising the debt limit another $2tillion…
They have 1 plane that can fly for 15 minutes and Gates get nervous…
If we were thinking ahead instead of sticking our heads in the sand we would be using China's aggressive posturing to market the F22 to Japan and Australia (maybe India even) as a defensive system to counter the J-20. That way we can actually get our allies to help foot the development bill, and get them to fly the F22s for the tacair deterrent to restrain Chinese aggression. And save many American jobs.
We should be spending our own money on submarines, advanced VLS systems, and SM-3 and AEGIS equipped surface ships to negate China's ballistic missile threat. That would make China nervous instead.
You don't really need to "market the F22 to Japan and Australia" the japs want it & Aus was very interested (& could be again), the problem was the us politician that created the bill/law that made the F22 a US only plane that is unavailable to foreign countries, get that changed & reopen the production line & anything could happen.
As an Aussie I would gladly welcome the F22 into our Air Force.
HOHOHO!!! Happy New (chinese) Age. Resucite F22 add B-22 and F-22 Agile (near stealth) and put the users manual in chinese, Joke. Land Aegis version, stealth cruiser missile, KC-30 tankers ( the bigger), convencional multi warheads ballistics missiles, speed up P-8 production, small batch of SSK, Very updated Sentrys and Jstars, cut half LCS and build +4 Arleigh and double size USMC ….Electronic Iron Curtain and one speard (USMC). Or maybe…just to be friends.
The J20 is just a research model to gain experience in stealth design, production, and tactics. Watch out for the real thing in about ten years. JSF's will be sitting ducks by then.
You are most likely right, It is probably a technology demonstrator.
From below it looks like the F-22 had a baby with Gripen.
Anyone remember Firefox? Clint Eastwood? Anyone?
Yes!! If it was better than F22? Anyone can be equal to US? One to one a lot of weapons are better or equal to Made in america…..ahh Forgotten! Put 3 heavy divisions in afghanistan to block a 1500 miles walk to the 2 world natural gas reserve and 3 world petroleum reserve I R A N. Look a Map. In the Far East not significant reserves. Now The Global Warm is for real.
from what i've seen until now – i can tell that this jet has a low RCS capability but it's barely even a true stealth fighter/bomber.
reading those comments makes me more sick, than eating fish and drinking milk…
yes dear US people, china has some technology too and all u have to say: increase the budget for the military…
maybe you should decrease that budget and stop feeling like a "global-police-officer", u should send ALL of your troops back home instead spreading "democracy" that nobody wants, first of all, u should think about your own failed picture of an "peaceful world" where western governments rule everything.
nobody wants mc-donalds in the hindu-kush, no one wants a nike t-shirt in somalia…
and also NO ONE wants a new cold war.
but reading those mind-limited comments makes me feel, that we already have a new cold war.
fascism rules erm?!
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/table…
Read this, for not wanting the US these people in these countries seem willing to cash the checks we write them. No list of countries turning US money. I think it 's nap time for the troll.
Yes of course; we should sit back and watch the world, including your back yard, burn to the ground because, really, they don't want our help. Then you can accuse us of being isolationist and uncaring. You people are really impossible to please…..
I guarantee you that every single living human being in Somalia would gladly except a Nike T-shirt.
Agreed. I was being sarcastic….
Had the Us done what you suggest decades ago, we would all be speaking Russian, Chinese or German. What they presently want in Somalia is freedom from radicals. What the Indians fear is radicals. What the Far East fears is not the US but China and its proxy NK.
Let's see China police the oil lanes…lol I can't wait until Southern Sudan shuts off the oil. I would love to know how much technology the Chinese has stolen from Russia and the US. Left to regional whim, the world would have already exploded in Kashmir, Lebanon, Korea, Africa, etc. Maybe when China starts acting like a responsible power, America will have less to do.
As the J-20 proves, there is far more than nike t-shirts they value. American air craft design is a must have. And those nike t-shirts are probably made in China by prisoners anyway, so what's your point?
edit: "Could be the USA which has kept the peace in Asia for 60 years."
thx general faileye, i never lol`d so much…
I didn't even catch that. Peaceful Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia…
I wonder what the combined death tolls are from those conflicts?
Those conflicts didn't involve all the Asian actors fighting. China and the US kept to fighting in Korea and not on each other's territory, ie it stayed contained. There are countless territorial disputes in Asia that haven't broiled into war. Has there been regional war in Asia? No there hasn't. Using your examples, the most recent conflict ended almost 40 years ago. Korea ended 57 years ago. These wars were strictly limited in geography and goals.
If you stick to your guns that peace hasn't been maintained then you must think peace hasn't been kept in Europe because there was a Bosnian war . There was a war between Cyprus and Turkey with Greek backing Cypriot Greeks. Lets not forget the Czech invasion of 1968. Europe too had its local conflicts yet its been "peaceful" on a regional and continental basis since 1945. So too as Asia.
You're letting opinion get in the way of facts.
Freedom? You sir, are an idiot.
I guess I am an idealistic idiot.And you have the FREEDOM to tell me that.
Good one…..
The United States is no chump either, im sure we have fighter aircraft (unmanned im sure) that we can only dream of right now. I do support 100% the re opening of F22 production, as the JSF 1 engine design is a fail. There is NO reason we cant export the F22, are we worried about Australia or England or Japan turning on us?
Bottom line is this is China's most advanced military hardware, and our most advanced hardware is underground at Groom Lake, probably 10-15 years ahead of what we see today. The United States is not going anywhere military strength wise. We will revamp our economy to produce green technology and in a decade we will be Laughing at China.
The Japanese will send Raptor tech to China before you can say "Forward" on your email.
Hell- they sold a bunch of stuff to Russia and China is their biggest trading partner right now- over us.
No problem with Australia.
Really, because the DOD's own reports say that Japan is our most reliable partner when it comes to technology exchanges (in terms of preventing technology from falling into the hands of others), while Israel is the worst. Also, why would Japan exchange that technology with China? The Japanese FEAR the rise of China, why would they assist them?
And on what basis do you label Israel the worst?
If anything, the technology transferring between the U.S. and Israel (yes, it's a two-way street) has been very secure and profitable.
Let's also not forget where the U.S. has shut down native Israeli programs at a huge cost to the Israeli companies (Lavi, Phalcon, etc).
Lavi competed with American light fighter exports. It probably was political suicide to support development and production. I don't see anything on the Phalcon disappearing, though the United States apparenly pressured Israel regarding sending them to China?
Israel has a reputation of espionage against the United States; but I wouldn't say right away that Israel is the worst…?
Check your facts, Japan has one of the best track records on the planet in terms of ensuring security of technology exchanges. That and they fear the Chinese, why would they trade with them?
Especially when one of your biggest equipment dealers is the US. Getting locked out in the cold between the US and China is not a place you want to be. Who will be your friend, Iran?
"From the perspectives of both technological strategy and military grand strategy, the J-XX [J-20] is the final nail in the coffin of the utterly failed “Gates recapitalisation plan” for United States and allied tactical fighter fleets. Apologists for the “Gates fighter recapitalisation plan” will no doubt concoct a plethora of reasons as to why the J-XX [J-20] should be ignored, as they did exactly one year ago when the Russians unveiled the T-50 PAK-FA stealth fighter. "
Just want to point you to this document: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-090111-1.htm…
Myths from uncle Kopp… again.
If you look carefully, you can see the strings holding it up…
Anyway, I feel this is much ado about nothing, this looks to me to be more of a stealthy light bomber/strike aircraft rather than a fighter. Then again, maybe they got a bunch of short people to stand next to the plane to make it seem bigger…. In any case, we don't know what it does, and it could simply be an attempt by the Chinese to cause a panic reaction to sink us into more debt…
Though, I do agree that F-22 production should be restarted, and sold in limited numbers to our closest foreign allies (definitely not Israel). Axe F-35A and F-35B, we can all get by with the C model. So what if its not a superior air-to-air combatant, thats what we have the F-22 for. The F-35C could otherwise serve as a strike platform no problem. As Anthony pointed out, we have the cutting edge under wraps at Groom Lake or some other facility nobody has ever heard of, and if we're already looking into 6th gen fighters, then whats the big deal?
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles?
We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? If I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned. I see a Congress hoping to lower defense spending, a media rather clueless and politicians willing to say anything to seem reasonable.
Please, someone tell me anything Gates has been right about from Iran to China, from Russia to Caracas. The American people have every right to be angry about the billions wasted in defense spending, the pork and disjointed strategies. Everything is decided by committee. Contracts are signed with no clear product in sight. We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
And if our New Bomber is saddled with a nuclear mission, what role will it play in conventional struggles? Could China launch the J-20 from a carrier? Given Gate's track record, if I saw a real learning curve on our part and resolve to whip together our MIC and strategy, I would be less concerned.
We simply don't act like there is either limited resources or real strategic threats. Yes, let's build some flying friggin jeeps.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
I have no clue why certain sections of my original post are not being posted. Was it the name Gates? The term "friggin flying jeeps" ? Questions like: Is the New Bomber saddled by being a nuclear asset? Whats up with that?
Well, is the J-20 a nuclear delivery system?
It has so many DNA with MiG 1.42 / 1.44. But…
- Canards = poor stealth capabilities
- Fat airframe = more likely, poor aerodynamics
- Engines looks interesting, but lacks thrust-vectoring (disadvantage)
However, it's interesting plane.
My point exactly!!
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/inde…
Anti-stealth sensors?
I agree with good -reader Who know if the plane can even compare up against the F-15 or F-22. It looks far less stealthy than a F-22, no vectored thrust. and lacks the speed and weapons load of the previous F-15. As far i as I know its a piece of junk that can fly. it will take years ant till 2017-2020 to field such planes anyway. all the doom and gloom is a little over played here.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12/lockheed-…
Just a few more Raptors ordered could continue joint manufacturing and save the money for taking retooling out of mothballs later on. What ever happened to improving investments rather than tossing them away?
As I am no expert, perhaps the skin needed for future manned and unmanned air craft will be too complex to retro-fit onto Raptors. It does seem a shame to dump the hundreds of billions. Perhaps upgrades to the B-1 might make it more lethal. The key to the J-20 seems whether Russia will sell China the engines needed. I'm having trouble seeing all the payload space for larger advanced missiles.
If the J-20 is a fighter designed to unload and turn, then missiles and radar are key.
Agreed. Japan, Aus, and Israel are ready to buy it. Selling to our allies would recoup costs, decrease per unit price tag, and save thousands of skilled US jobs.
An upgraded B-1 would be very helpful. The B-1 could carry a heavier load, faster, than the B-52. With upgraded radars, avionics, and a stealth coating (like the radar absorbing coat on the F15SE) it could be very capable for another decade. Unfortunately, many of the airframes themselves are getting old. Still, a B-1 would make a great stop-gap missile carrier while working on a new bomber.
Yep, I agree that the J-20 is probably a semi-stealthy missile boat.
The return of the Missileer? But a missile boat requires powerful radars to engage at long range, doesn't it? Is this coming from land bases, ships or an AWACS?
That certainly would be the big question. Considering the Israeli AWAC sale shenanigans, I think it's pretty clear that China is interested in a mature AWAC capability. We'll see.
As far as I can tell, the Phalcon sale was shot down, so China needs something that can give it the Surveillance of SSC. At a macro level their supposed global positioning constellation would provide it (and maybe operability with GLONASS or Galileo?); but at the micro level AWACs are needed. Land facilities are quite powerful, but they are easy targets if you have Tomahawks to rip holes into radar coverage.
They need something mobile, and an air unit fits the bill. A ship might work too, but ships are slow. On the plus side, they are more mobile than a land installation, and they can be larger than an AWACS.
Restart F-22 production and incorporate technologies from the F-35 program. Lets go back to the "high-low" mix thinking instead of this F-35 only idea.
The J-20's engines are right next to eachother, and their nozzles are old school and dont help disperse heat like the F-22's or YF-23's. So the IR signature of the beast has gotta be pretty bad.
"The impression here is of a big, long aircraft, 70+ feet from nose to tail, which would make sense for a number of reasons. Rob Hewson at Jane's has reported that Russia has supplied 32,000-pound thrust 117S engines for the J-20, which would be adequate for an aircraft in the 80,000 pound class – with perhaps lower supercruise performance and agility than an F-22, but with larger weapon bays and more fuel.
But ask yourself: why would China need or want a short-range stealth aircraft? Any targets with defenses that call for that capability are a long way from the mainland. Also, the bigger that the aircraft is, the more likely it is that it is a bomber as much as, if not more than, a fighter." – Bill Sweetman of Aviation Week
The Chinese military has carried out a test flight of a stealth fighter jet without informing President Hu Jintao and the country's civilian leadership, a senior US defence official said Tuesday.
"It was clear that none of the civilians in the room had been informed (of the test flight)," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, describing a meeting between Hu and US Defense Secretary Robert Gates. – AFP
China says it expects the stealth plane to be operational some time between 2017 and 2019. – BBC
Whoever discredit this plane only by seeing the pictures & without knowing any hard data are shallow & ignorant. Know thy enemy know thy self….. To rubbish your enemy without even knowing what exactly the J20 can do or what even it's for (fighter? bomber?) is truly stupid indeed
Someone using Google Translate -rubbish should have been trash….lol
LOL!
All this talk of the engines and no thrust vectoring,.. this wouldn't be the 1st time available engines were stuck in a new air frame, to be replaced by more advanced models later.
If there is one thing that my untrained eyes see about that aircraft from viewing it's planform is that it appears statically stable to me.
I recommend if there is any selling…
It should go to those hard core allies who will stick with America…
Countries like: Japan, South Korea, Austrialia, England, Canada, Austria, Germany and (those you know will not re-sell the technology…yes i am pointing at one such country in the middle east…make it two…Iran which supposely pass on an F-14 tom-cat to the Soviet Union and America supposely number 1 ally slapped banged in the middle of that "restive" region which coincidently re-sell military technology [develop with their allies or passed to them by their allies] to PRC China)….
It is really idiotic….you designed and develop the weopon and tech….and you allow it to easily falls into the hands of potential and real future enemies…
It is sad.
To Anthony · 9 hours ago
You are correct about the green technology…
The problem is will the fat cats and gluttony rich pigs in america or other 1st world countries "re-sell" these "green" technology to PRC China for short term gains…
And again who will be laughing…the PRC Chinese at the sheer idiocy of the 1st world and the self disrtructive greed of the "rich" at the expense of their own country long term viability…or will be it really be "use"…
Sad.
Yeah, if we got rid of the rich the world would be so much of a better place….
sarcasm/ off
My bet is that the J-20 is a technology demonstrator that will eventually turn into a limited aspect stealth naval strike aircraft.
Whats with the number on the side, 2001? Anyway it looks like something out of Command & Conquer: Generals
Amen; napalm MIGs anyone?…..
Interesting… there could be two of them. The China Defence blog shows the exhausts of the WS10A and the Russian engine. The flying plane looks to have the WS10A, unless there's another similar looking engine.
Not really surprising about Hu Jintao not knowing about the flight. The PRC is *absolutely* not the monolithic entity lots of folk here portray it as. It's a very complex place.
Leet the YF-23 fly again. Say 2000 modified YF-23.
http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/fi…
Yeah, where are we going to get the money to develop another plane from?
Since we can't even build the planes we accept contracts for, why is adding another plane type in the mix going to make anything better?
the plane actually doesn't look very stealthy. Too many flat, large surfaces and the proportions look sort of wacky.
This looks like a first draft using bits and pieces stolen from the US and Russia. As they steal more, the design will evolve.
U do not know the theory of stealthy, it doesn't depend on your physical eyes, it does on radar reflection rate. F-22 also can be traced by VHF.
http://www.sinocism.com/archives/1539 speculations about the game being played…
If that thing is stealth then I'm the king of Belgium. Too many flat panels, no sawtoothing, and nothing about the engine arrangement (test engines or no) seems to say LO. If this is their research plane, then I'd say they're about fifty years in the past, and they still haven't collected the right reading material.
NOTHING, absolutely nothing about this design hints at stealth capability. so what does the design hint at?
Extremely large size, large forward canards, two large engines, large wings canted slightly downwards (Ala XB-70), lets put it all together.
IMHO this bird is a Mach 2+ long-range interceptor, designed to fly fast and far. Imagine the Mig-25 with legs. The large lifting surfaces and forward flight surfaces seem to hint at a plane that will quickly climb to high altitude, the weapons are internal in order to reduce drag.
Where the bird differs from the Foxbat is that, in my opinion, its more offensively oriented. Its designed to interdict enemy aircraft outside of Chinese airspace, either the strike packages forming up, or the logistical "tail" of a strike force. (Refuelers, AWACs, cargo birds, CAPs over carriers and enemy airfields, etc.) You don't need range for a defensive interceptor.
Yep, seems like an interceptor.
I still thinks its a Gen 4+++ (4.75)
This is their idea of an FB-22. It is NOT an air superiority fighter.
Can carry at least 3 bombs internally, probably 4 or more.
I think there is WAY to much hype for the J-20. It's based off weak engines, the PLAAF will barely provide sufficient support (AWACS and mid-air refueling), and the plane has MANY design flaws. Even if it develops into a decent fighter, the F-35 still trumps it with USAF support, and avionics (weapons maybe too).
I recently stumbled across a chart comparing fifth generation aircraft (http://tinyurl.com/4h73o63). It's good information for those unfamiliar with these aircraft.
Link info not 100% correct, but still has some good info. F-35 carries only 4 missiles not 8 (internally).
China is no doubt expanding their influence to their neighbors. Whether it is economically, socially, technologically, or through military advancements. However, we must keep in mind that China is moving away from being a labor-intensive nation to being capital-intensive. It will use its new status to spread it’s influence and build relations with its neighbors. China has the right to do so. Much like the US after Vietnam. So why do we treat this status with suspicion and paranoia? Doing so only prevents us from actually achieving our objectives and interests in the region, and we allow ourselves to be alienated by some of our allies in this process. I’m sure the people in Washington understand this principle. But it appears that they refuse to take a different approach? Maybe their strategy is to promote instability in order to remain as a nation with influence over its allies. Or maybe they just want another war? We need to tread carefully and stop acting with hipocracy.
The Chinese Communist Party still run things; I don't trust them, so it only makes sense that I would view their weapons development with suspicion….
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/01/old-schoo…
DangerRoom has a good article about how F-15 might end up being our main weapon against the J-20 due to lack of F-22s and delays witht the F-35. It has a bigger nose cone which can carry a larger and more powerful AESA radar than our 5th gen fighters, and can carry more fuel with external tanks. I would personally buy some Silent Eagles if I were the head DoD weapons buyer.
Here's a concept: stop buying cheap inferior Chinese crap and buy American!
Seriously, nobody has noticed that this is the fake jet from the gay ass Clint Eastwood movie firefox?
We don't kill or torture those whom we think are a threat to our national security (no, I don't consider waterboarding torture). The Chinese still have a much worse human rights record than we ever have…..