This is wild, Reuters is reporting that rebels flying a MiG-23 fighter jet and a helicopter may have sunk two Libyan warships and destroyed numerous government tanks.
If these reports are true, a big if, then it looks like the rebels are finally starting to get some air support of their own.
From Reuters very brief article on this:
The Brnieq online newspaper quoted an unnamed airforce officer at the Benina airbase in Benghazi as saying the two aircraft also bombed an unspecified number of tanks near Brega and Ajdabiya, two towns that fell to pro-Gaddafi forces on Tuesday.
Who knows, maybe rebellious Libyan air force factions will rise up and create their own no-fly zone over Tripoli?
{ 72 comments… read them below or add one }
I hope it is true.
HOT DAMN!…..
Maybe they can mount their own new campaign to retake ground!…..
I wonder if they had any outside help?…..
Can anyone guess?
2 ships with 1 Mig & 1 helo – that's pretty sweet without even counting whatever they hit on dry land.
No question Ghadafi is a bad guy. That's no guarantee the rebels are good guys. That stuff about them being AQ is ridiculous, of course.
Labeling a conflict with 'good guys' and 'bad guys' are for little boys like you that play warcraft all day and never can manage to grow pubic hair on their balls.
Do you still play indians and cowboys?
Anyone in Gadhafi's military or government with any brains knows that there probably isn't much of a future in stickin' with the regime. If Gadhafi prevails (which is doubtful), he will surely liquidate his senior leadership for lettin' the whole thing happen in the first place. If Gadhafi loses, he isn't going to be takin' anybody along with him, when he leaves, except maybe his contingent of all-female bodyguards. P.S….and I'll cap the first realtor who tries to sell Gadhafi a condo in the U.S. of A.
I'm with you but i think he cadre of fembots already left i know his ukrainian nurse did.
Well, anybody that has an all contingent of all female bodyguards and likes Laffite 1959 can't be all bad.
I have a feeling that he has a Charlie Sheen-sized Coke habit, as well. He's a knucklehead AND a crackhead.
WINNING with tiger blood!!!!!!!!
Great comment from MadMike.What you need to know though is that those around Gaddafi supporting him are chosen because they are actually brainless and most of them do not have access to exchange of information like we do now. I am pretty sure if they could, one single wise statement like yours would make then reconsider their actions
I have to agree with you on Ghaddafi's constituents being brainless. Anyone with any personal ideals or general morals for their country would run from a leader who lost his mind 20 years ago. Hopefully the rebel forces will retake the country before this escalates more out of control. I'm just thankful that a few people over there have enough common sence to uprise.
No doubt we’ll get that no-fly zone up and running just in time to shoot these guys down, before they go and do too much damage.
How many aircraft do the rebels have compared to Gadhafi?
Dictatorships are completely vulnerable to decapitation, and one well aimed JDAM that hits Khaddafi, or even close, and maybe a son or two, and the show is over.
Obama had a chance to finish this thing in one hour, and instead we cynically sit and watch civilians get murdered because all of sudden it's not our war, we'd have to destroy the entire air defense system, we don't want to get bogged down ina land war, etc. etc. I call BS!
Obama : "He needs to leave now." um, okay. What if he doesn't?
The worst kind of commander threatens the enemy, and then does not back it up. Makes us look impotent and full of hot air.
Those who would say we can't assassinate leaders, are living with stupid logic that means thousands of civilians have to die, and billions of dollars have to be spent. Khaddafi and his sons are just like Hussein and his boys, they have stolen billions of dollars from their people that they can use to cause trouble.
If Khaddafi is allowed to win, we will have a new arab enemy, the same one reagan tried to kill, one who actually had a nuclear weapons project going until we negotiated it away, and one who sits on oil. Now, what's to stop him from payback?
Sun-Tsu wrote " One arrow, killing the king, is worth ten divisions attacking head on."
We have no problem assassinating Taliban cadre, what is with this genteel geneva convention BS about killing the enemy leader?
With regard to the US simply assassinating him, the problem isn't really the Geneva Convention(s), its Executive Order 12333…
Hmmm drones are assassinating people in Afpaq daily so Executive order 12333… my ass ,just bunch off cowards and duble dealing politicians unwiling to do anything so that revolt against opressive arab regimes wouldn't spread to 'alies' in Saudi Arabia and Bahrein
executive order 12333 doesn't exist when you at war with them because its not an assassination when you are fighting a war
Sad to say, the biggest concerns for the USA in the region are keeping access to oil, and keeping the Iranians from getting nukes. Everything else is secondary.
The regimes in the region have a habit of making the USA look bad whatever we do. If we do nothing, we are supporting the dictator
If we intervene, we are trying to steal the oil, meddling in their affairs, etc.
Then, there is another problem: where do we stop? If we intervene in Libya, why not in Bahrain? Saudi Arabia? If we help the Libyans, but not the Bahrainis, are we merely the zionist puppets of the Khalifa family that rules Bahrain?
Don't forget that the Saudi's just showed what they think of the USA's democracy promotion efforts: they just marched into Bahrain to crush any dissent. A few years back they intervened in Qatar to restore the monarchy.
Everything is a bad option. The best thing for us is to get the Arab league to grow a pair and kill Gaddaffi themselves.
So we are at war with American citizen Anwar Al Awlaki?
No not tru the executive order only states we can’t assassinate political leaders or anyone that would sway the political stability of a nation. It came about after several failed attempts on Castro and it was finalized by Jimmy Carter. Bush added to it saying that assassinating terrorist doesn’t fall under this that’s why we can take them out with drones.
I'm not saying I disagree with what we SHOULD do, however, look at the debacle we got into in Iraq and Afghanistan for taking the very action you are suggesting. CentCom can't handle a third front and all it would entail. The only difference is, at least this time we'd be going in for the right reasons.
Maybe, just maybe, if Bush/Rumsfeld had:
1) Finished Afghanistan before going into Iraq
2) Gone into Iraq for the right reasons instead of using a manufactured one
3) Gone into Iraq with enough people and equipment to actually do the job and get it finished
then maybe, just maybe, we'd be in a better position to be able to do something in Libya, Bharain, etc. right now. And yet, we'd still have to deal with "If they turn on us like Afghanistan did when we helped them defeat the Russians…."
Just remember, no good deed goes unpunished. And since the rebels are Shi'ites, then the MiGs are probably Iranian produced & flown.
Or, perhaps we should stay out of it and save some cash for things that matter. The Middle East is at the edge of a completely new political era. Let's not make the first impression on the new bosses be an unnecessary military intervention.
The oil market will stabilize. We just have to let it happen.
Another problem with killing him off is that there are about 5 major tribes and nodoubt quite a few smaller tribes as well in the region, and none of them like each other. As such if the common enemy disapears there would probably be a prolonged war between the tribes as they fight for power, this in turn would likely criticly impede the oil coming from Libya as well as make it easier for terriosts to infltrate the crountry and set up operations.
Love it, seize more planes, acess commands to shoot down more Migs etc
strafer airfields even.
Kudos to those rebelpilots.
Neat.
Call in for some F14s as escorts?
You're 5 years too late.
F-14s aren't in service anymore.
Only F-14 are Static Displays only. but I heard Iran has some F-14 them are willing to let go for a song and a dance.
During the early days of this civil war, there was a news article posted on cnn or bbc IIRC, about how rebels were in control of several libyan air force bases, and had fully working aircraft, fuel, armaments, willing pilots and ground crew, etc. In effect, some 4-6 entire bases, personnel and all defected. I'll have to have a poke around the web to see if I can find the article
Libyan rebels have helicopters Mi-24 and a frigate, see the photos on the official website of the rebels: http://ntclibya.org/english/media/
Make that the Frigate Al Hani, a Nanuchka class missile corvette and a Hind. ;)
So everyone here wants the Muslim Brotherhood in charge instead of Qaddaffi? Wow… Are you guys new?
Whoever replaces Qaddaffi might not be great, but there is no certainty that it would be the brotherhood. Long term, democracy is better: the brotherhood and Al Qaeda flourish in the reppressive environment of dictatorship.
They never flourished in Iraq when Saddam was there. They're not flourishing in Libya now. The grass may look greener, but it isn't.
"Long term" is more than just 10 years: look at the US's history.
Don't forget that Iraq is inherently unstable because of large sectarian and ethic divisions, the effects of a brutal dictator, and being messed up through three major wars.
A dictator who gets on the US' bad side is simply another potential Al Qaeda symphathizer. While Saddam never had any truck with Al Qaeda, there's nothing saying there is no reason why the next dictator wouldn't put nation-state support behind a group acting as its proxy. Hezbollah remains the primary example of this kind of group, and while largely no longer active overseas is probably still "terrorist".
A gang fight only someone forgot to get the non-combatants out of the way first. Maybe if Khadaffi and the MB's slug it out long enough they'll wear each other out/take each other out and the people of Libya can take over and have a decent life!
I would wait and see confirmation of this story by more than one unnamed source. A real story is the Israeli interception of a German ship that docked in Syria along side the Kharg. I transferred illegal shore to ship missiles from the Iranian cargo ship to the German ship which went to Turkey before sailing to Egypt to deliver the cargo to Hamas operatives in North Sinai.
I would be concerned about both US ship burning from strikes by such missiles as they pass through the Suez and the role our NATO partner Turkey is playing here with Iran and Hizb'Allah. That is as important as a ship or two of Qaddafi's possibly being sunk by a FREE LIBYAN ARMED FORCES MIG.
"It transferred" ….as "I" had nothing to do with it…..
No confirmation on Libyan ships sinking yet as Qaddafi prepares to move on Benghazi. Confirmation however of the weapons the US Navy and Israel allowed to pass illegally through the Suez: http://www.informationdissemination.net/2011/03/a…
Who cares
Ghadafi have much more operational MiGs
Gaddafi is your victory, Serbia is with you to victory
Long live khadafi
U.S.A is only trying to get more oil. F-ing invader..
@ Stephen Russel
F-14s for escort… Urm… Get with the programme, Pal. The USN retired them a while back… But do feel free to offer F-15C, F-16C, F-18E/F, EF Typhoon, Tornado F.3, Mirage 2000 or Rafale for the role. Alternatively get an up to date "Jane's" and THINK before posting.
Yes the F14's were retired in 2006
And yes get yourself an up to date Janes Aircraft Regonition Guide before posting otherwise you will look rather silly and stupid
You forgot about Iran still has F-14
sniffing glue is not good for your brain SerbNationalist
Aviators always always overrate what they hit, in the air, on the ground, or on/under the water….. Even Rebel Aviators… Where is the footage? Where are the sinking survivors? Where is the flotsam/jetsam stuff…? life preservers, life rafts, oil slicks? Dont believe a word of it….. You know how hard it is to hit a tank with a bomb? Forget it….. Not unless its an LGB and everything is working….. Even then, not easy…. Its over in Libya because none of the Europeans have the cojones to help…. NONE of THEM…..!!!! And the Brits, now have the French speaking for them on their Defense Policies…. What a joke….. Quick, Form a Committee… Call Brussels…..!!!! Gaddafi gets after school detention…. pfffffffffffffffff……
The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend- just look at Afghanistan. We help them against Russia, and they turned on us quick as can be.
since the rebels are Shi'ites, then the MiGs are probably Iranian produced & flown. They are most likely taking a que from Cold War US, only learning from our lessons- make sure those you back have hte same religion as you do so they don't end up biting you as well (like Afghanistan did to us when we helped them against the Russians)
Not to mention this way they can literally surround Israel and have an early warning if any anti-Iranian forces get too far into the Med.
Where did you get that the Libyan rebels are Shiites? That is true of Bahrain, but not Libya
Libya is 97% Sunni. 3% Shia is not enough for a sectarian rebellion, and if it were so Gaddafi would have called them Iranians instead of Al-Qaeda.
You don't need to hit a tank directly with a bomb to knock it out. Land a bomb close enough and you may not destroy the tank but you'll break the optics and plenty of other important items.
The MiG-27 and some variants of the MiG-23 were designed for ground attack and were expected to do strafing/rocket runs as well as dropping bombs. They had some specialized avionics for this task although all of it is quite dated by modern standards.
hands up everyone here that thinks the libyans optics or even gyro-stabilization is in-spec, or even running…. Yep, thats what I thought…. 23 or 27, its a short range big motor hi acceleration CJ-Killler….
If the locals managed to get some birds in the air and use them, good for them.
I heard the LAF was in bad disrepair and their pilots very poorly trained. I think Gadafi hired his pilots.
I suspect it may have been non-locals who tracked down working aircraft of the same type for deniability. Or non-locals (Egypt?) who sent people in to fix up and fly the Libyan migs.
And the winner of today's Capt Obvious Award is Jay! Congratulations Jay! How does it feel?
For those advocating clear military action in Libya, what do we do now that the web is airing video of Saudi or Bahraini forces beating dissidents, shooting an isolated unarmed protestor with rubber bullets from a few feet away, etc. If we supported the Libyans against Qaddaffi, but not the peaceful protests by Bahrainis, the US will be painted as supporters of the monarchy. The Shia will start looking to Iran. Long term, this makes the 5th fleet base more perilous. I hate to sound so heartless, but there are just a lot of bad options.
Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are in our strategic interest. If we think the regimes have a good chance to tough it out we are not going to do anything. Qaddaffi is a liability and a monster. Under a different administration, this would have been resolved two weeks ago. I suspect some of our timidity on Libya is due to Saudi pressure. If not, it means we now speak loudly and carry a wet noodle.
The Saudis hate Qaddafi who tried to murder the King in 2003.
"Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are in our strategic interest" I agree. But if we intervene in Libya, but not in Bahrain, we will have all the Shia in Bahrain see as hypocrites. In fact, they are already calling shame for failure to stand up more for the people.
Do we want to have our 5th fleet base on a small island where the majority of the people hate us? The whole reason we are there is for oil, and particularly to guard against Iran. Iran is Shia. Bahrain is majority Shia. Most of Saudi oil comes from Shia areas. Shia are the largest group in Iraq.
The Shia don't have to love the USA. But you really don't want them to all hate you, especially when your major military base in the middle of their territory, and you are itching to go to war against the biggest Shia power of all, Iraq.
damn, mean to say IRAN.
America first inevitably means that when it comes to protecting freedom, America is first. And our interest is keeping Bahrain and the Sauds in place, Shia be damned. Maybe that's why Bush Sr sold Iraqi Shia down the river and let the IRG kill them…not exactly a great way to build cred with the Shia community?
It turns out the new NFZ will probably shut down the rebel airforce too. Means Gaddafi will only have heavy artillery for saturation bombardment of Bengazi instead of airstrikes.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2011/03/world/hire…
Look familiar?
Is this going to be a new Iraq/Afghanistan where Coalition Troops get bogged down in yet another Insurgency ??
Probably defectors.
I don't think we have to worry about Iran but we might have to start worrying more about Afgan
Get the rebels some tanks and raise some hell on the ground. Down with gadaffi.
I guess the rebels aren't just a rag-tag band but seem to be gaining sophistication. I was wondering where they got pilots until I read about the defections. Makes sense
Given that he's a member of Al Qaeda, yeah, we kind of are. If an American citizen had enlisted in Saddam's army before the Iraq War they would've been fair game too.