Golly, it great to finally see the new US Air Force manned target drones in operation. Its taken years to leak enough crappy tech to the chinese to make them think they have a viable stealth program to rival those stupid round eyes in the west.

snargledurp May 6, 2011 at 11:09 am: such arrogance is a sure set up for disaster. China is not Iran. Even if it is not on par with the US I doubt their top techies are a bunch of bumbling idiots. Making a formadible fighter is not the exclusive domain of the US/Western Europe. China has the will and most importantly the money to innovate.
I would be more concerned with US power, however. Our failure to replace 70s and 80s tech despite floods of funding and the upcoming axe-swinging by politicos is going to bite us in the ass soon.
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Spacey578 May 6, 2011 at 10:52 am

Cheers, consider the weekend lightened up.

It's true we don't have a press-release from Chengdu saying 'We're developing this aircraft for the long range interception and anti-shipping roles', but I think, given that it is a big, single-seat, twin-engined military aircraft and that the J in J10/J15/J20 etc stands for Jiān èr shí, which means, apparently, "Annihilator , we can safely assume the following:

1. It's for flying around blowing up stuff it's owners don't like.
2. It's for flying around, stopping other people blowing up its owners' stuff.

Personally I don't think there will be a shooting war between China and the US or any of its Asia-Pacific allies. And maybe even if there was an air war over China or the South China Sea it would be all missiles and B2s and the US wouldn't deploy their carriers (although it is what they have tended to do in most conflicts they've been in) and the F35s that will (probably, eventually, one day) be deployed on them. But it is definitely forseeable that J20s might run into F35s/F22s.

Jay May 6, 2011 at 11:01 am

Spacey,
we have had many semi-sensible discussions of the J-20 over the past few months.

To summarize our conclusions:
1. yes, they stole tech from US & Russia
2. The F-22 would surely whup it, the F-35 probably
3. China is modernizing still needs a lot of work on basic things like engines, force integration, training, and logistics to support their new toys
4. It is big. Think FB-22. Will be good at carrying many large missiles but not as good at close air to air combat
5. Likely mission is to carry lots of anti ship or ground attack missiles and use stealth to get close enough to carriers or airfields to attack. Could also be useful in penetrating to attack our refuelers, C3I, J-stars etc.
6. Chinese order of battle is focused on keeping out carriers away and degrading our airfields. If this is successful then J-20 will not need to fight F-22 and F-35 since our planes will not be able to operate without carriers and airfields.
7. the Chinese own tons of our debt and don't want to fight us (yet), but want systems to keep us out of the fight while they do their thing

Lance May 6, 2011 at 1:03 pm

While size doesn't matter in stealth terms it dose in maneuverability A F-22 or F-15 can fly rings around this junk heap.

I still don't get why you guys keep threatening over this Chinese junk.

moryphius May 6, 2011 at 3:30 pm

a stealth fighter of that size WILL BE VERY PRICEY PER UNIT(my guess 200-300 units)
if that is the case,compare that to
187 f-22's
2400 f-35's(starting mass production in a few years)
20 b-2's
now theirs some stealth numbers!!!!

Blue1 May 8, 2011 at 12:50 am

You’re a naive if you believe we’ll have anywhere near 2400+ F-35s. And how do you know what their production cost will be or how many they’ll build? Are you simply applying US standards to Chinese and speculating? Know what, I change my opening statement, you’re ret@red. It’s the only explanation.

I look at the J-20 and see China’s first attempt at a stealth plane, just like they’re first attempt at a carrier. Just like what someone else said, when they build a second generation of each, then I’ll be worried. Right now they’re in the ‘walk’ phase, nothing more

moryphius May 9, 2011 at 8:35 am: walk phase?
so when china's constantly trying to steal united states technology,
is that the" crawl phase" or the "run phase"?………
WHAT A IDIOT!!!!!
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blight_ October 17, 2011 at 10:10 am: Agreed. They're following the same blueprint Japan did for the Meiji Restoration.
1) Send your best-skilled civilians overseas to learn the technology. Some may stay overseas, some may return home. It happens.
2) Send your best military officers overseas, to learn western technology, tactics, strategy, doctrine, etc (not sure if this has been realized)
3) Acquire foreign technology, take it home, cultivate its use, quash traditionalists who stand in the way of technical progress
4) Import foreign designs for your military. Buy military equipment from overseas suppliers
5) Acquire licenses to produce these designs and associated equipment locally.
And the last stage
Build your own military, with the latest technology of the west but to your preference.
1,3,4 and 5 are likely done, but when it comes to 4 and 5 it's mostly Russian military designs. However, Chinese civilians have completed their training in Western Europe and the United States.
They've not started a great deal of local design when it comes to military equipment. It still has a Russian, or Russian-modified flavor.
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Oblat May 8, 2011 at 1:33 pm

Americans are scared. The Chinese have taken their money have taken their jobs and look like taking their pride.

The J-20 means that Us carrier groups wont be able to operate anywhere near Taiwan. That game is effectively over, the Chinese won because we opted for an uncompetitive JSF design optimised for contractor profits.

In the end the Chinese will dominate with an economy 3 times larger than ours and a military 3 times better. That end is just coming a lot faster than Americans expected.

PMI May 9, 2011 at 1:52 pm: The F-35 is the end of America? Way to take the trolling up a notch! lol
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Nick Dwyer May 8, 2011 at 7:25 pm

oooohh! Scary Talk!

I agree this thing is kinda stealth, I know that it is a prototype… Man, I cant get over the fact that Rus and Chi both went with YF-23 type designs. Long legs! I know we are developing a 6th gen right now, I think that it will pretty cool whatever it is. By then I'll be a grandpa, and lasers and microwaves will make missiles obsolete. Not to mention, jamming and hacking will be interesting things to deal with. Then out of no where we throw a wall of MQ-16's at them on a Kamikaze run!

William C. May 8, 2011 at 7:41 pm

There is no connection with the YF-23 with either design. They don't even look alike.

Nick Dwyer May 9, 2011 at 12:19 am

Willy- they have many different aspects, notice that the J-20 is more like the YF-23 than the F-22. I want clear, but what I mean is, like the YF 23 w more of a Fighter bomber, I think it would have made. Great replacement r the F-117. It was more of an interceptor, rather than strictly made for air dominance. The F-23 and the new stealths were very long, with broad wings, in delta, the T-50 is more of a blend of F-22 and 23. Yes the J-20 looks alot like the F-22, but it seems to be more related to the F-23 in its mission. It is only human nature to compare. Basicly, more intrest in sneeky stealth and dupercruise, less about dogfighting. Dont take this so seriouly please. It seems like they picked a fair trade of abilities. I hink this is what our JSF should be like, two engine, bomb truck that can fight if it needs to. That is all.

Stratege May 9, 2011 at 2:30 pm: T-50 has some features that indicates the design as very capable dogfighter. Unlike the J-20 which looks more bomb cruiser than fighter jet.
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Nick Dwyer May 9, 2011 at 4:18 pm

Very true.
Look how wide they are, with spread air intakes. Look at the belly view,much like the YF-23. They have some similar features and more so with the J-20.

Sleepyhead May 10, 2011 at 7:47 am

This is the BEST video clip of Chengdu J-20 on Youtube. Check this out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3tfysicBMc

chicky pandy June 26, 2011 at 7:06 am

idon't take this so light. mozlims ultimately will get plans like these(and other high-tech hardware) from china through its closest friend the islamic pakistan. that may be used against US and Isreal. definetely india will be in great trouble. we should support her against islamic pakistan.
we should ask china to show responsibility and review it relations with mozlims before undertaking such high-tech R&D projects.

joe manning July 9, 2011 at 12:36 am

I'm confused is it there technology or ours YF-23 was not going to go to waist and I thinkougl they knew that it's not entirely impossable that this is a Mcdonnell Douglas

I seen the F22 vs F-23 video on you tube with chianease captions and was wondering WTF. When are we going to stop being China's bitch

blight_ October 17, 2011 at 10:03 am: "YF-23 is not going to go to waist"
It isn't, because it was built with contemporary technology at the time of the competition between YF-22 and YF-23. It didn't win, so the design didn't evolve, and so it's frozen in time. No waste.
It's not like a game where we have R&D points and we just used them unwisely on competitions like this.
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Dan Kuyek August 11, 2011 at 3:03 am

The point not mentioned here, is the upgrades/redundancies of the f-22.. There are multiple you tube videos of both test pilots and regular pilots who state that down the road, the evolution of the 22 will be such that it could "kick the snot" out of the current version. The current version defeated the Rafael in UAE which, inturn defeated the EF 7-1. Some of the 22 drivers had less than 50 hours in type!! Nothing touches it and nothing will for a long time!

masta wu August 12, 2011 at 3:09 am

baby steps

blight_ October 17, 2011 at 10:01 am

Alternatively, the PLAAF will make routine deployment of stealthy missile casings before the United States, which has stockpiles of legacy arms built up for The War That Never Came. We're not going to dipose of good bombs and missiles for nothing, and we've certainly not made aggressive moves towards redesigning our casings for reduced observability. Additionally, we are focused on bombing out terrorists and the like, where you can dump any bomb you like. Then again, moves towards LO mean that even our ammo dumps will have to be climate-controlled, which makes things expensive on top of climate-controlled hangars for aircraft. Then again, you have to pay for capability, and once you have it and the other guy doesn't…

Dan October 19, 2011 at 10:31 pm

Like it or not…every time we purchase a "made in china" product, we finance such projects.
Let us not make jest. Let us look to Washington D.C and ask why our leaders have allowed/facilitated this/these threat(s) to the security of the USA to occur?????????

A service oriented economy is a losing deal. There is no rational argument to support it!

Ror November 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm

Have fun with those oxygen system malfunctions.

Chibungwa May 6, 2011 at 10:01 am

But… but… but we are having a shenshibel discussion!

Since no one yet knows what kind of avionics or weapons this thing can carry, we can only speculate based on "conventional wisdom" -so to speak- that:

1) After a flypass, does it make you feel nauseous or headache (similar to MSG consumption)?
2) When a PLAN soldier on the ground call for backup, does he have to repeat the request several times?
3) When the bombing is over, do we get fortune cookies?

Naah… Just some humor to lighten up the weekend. No racist comment intended.

As for your specific questions, how does anyone really know until a Chinese pilot flew that thing to Taiwan or somewhere and declare himself a political refugee?

@Earlydawn May 6, 2011 at 10:07 am

The F-35 and F-22 really have no bearing on counter-balancing the J-20. For one, we have no idea what role the J-20 serves on the battlefield. Secondly, where do you foresee this aircraft running into F-35s or F-22s?

Any air war over China or the South China Sea will rest squarely on strategic bombers, stand-off weapons, and cruise missiles.

yumcoffee May 6, 2011 at 10:13 am

As far as the canards go, it will certainly increase maneuverability and angle of attack, if its even a fighter, with rumors going on about it being more a a long range strike aircraft to penetrate carrier defenses Im not real sure what the canards are about. It wouldnt seem necessary to blaze in on a carrier quickly. Also, as there doesnt seem to be thrust vectoring engines i dont think its a possibility that this aircraft would be able to compete with the air to air capabilities of the F-22 or JSF just due to the fact it appears it has no thrust vectoring.
So i guess the rumors hold some weight thatt it may just be another way to take out carriers, the chinese seem determined to make that particular capability a top priority in the modernization of their forces. We (USA) do have 11 carrier strike groups after all….

Ill only touch on what yousaid about china having hundreds of J-20s before we field a JSF… as it stands the JSF has undergone significantly more flight tests and is MUCH farther along in the process than the 2 or maybe 3 J-20s china has now. With that said i will also have to mention that the technologies we bring to the table are mature technologies that our defense contractors have much experience with already. China on the other hand presumably doesnt have large scale manufacturing processes to make large quantities of these planes as of yet. You also must consider that China has a history, although it may be getting better, of taking years and years to field new types of military technologies.

Overall, and im sorry to rant, the chinese have made pretty large steps in the past ten years by stealing our technology and trying their best to reproduce it. However, we shouldnt fret too much over a single platform that uses outdated technology. As a matter of fact, we shouldnt worry much at all given they dont have access to materials to make lightweight ceramics for their body armor let alone the high tech materials needed for mass production of something as advanced as a formidable stealth jet. Also, why havent we heard more about the PAK-FA? This jet may actually be more of a threat considering it is already eating away at possible sales of JSF to some countries. War is increasingly becoming an economic battle not a physical one.

shawn ihle September 1, 2011 at 1:58 pm

me chinese. me play joke. me go pee pee in your coke. cheeeen chowww minggggg!!! fwide-wice !

Guest May 6, 2011 at 10:48 am

Thrust vector is not the magic solution. Thrust Vector is only usefull if enough thrust is available.

New Video of China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter

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