Home » Weapons » Arms Trade » Israel’s Boomers On the Rise

Israel’s Boomers On the Rise

by John Reed on July 24, 2011

By Joe Buff — Defense Tech Undersea Warfare Contributor

The State of Israel has long followed what early nuclear war-fighting theorist Henry Kissinger called a policy of nuclear ambiguity. Israel, officially, neither confirms nor denies possessing any nuclear arms, although many defense analysts, politicians, and diplomats the world over have long considered Israel an undeclared nuclear power. To have nukes for strategic deterrence would make sense for such a small nation surrounded by enemies. These enemies don’t just include today’s dangerously volatile nuclear aspirant Iran but also Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War (he did have some WMDs then and fired Scud ballistic missiles into Israel), Egypt’s unpredictable Soviet-backed Gamal Nasser in the ‘60s, and even unsuccessful but aspiring nuclear power Nazi Germany coincident with Hitler’s Holocaust – a direct precursor to modern Israel’s birth as a sovereign nation.

Since 1948 the Israeli Navy has had mixed success, helping protect the country’s relatively long, two-part coastline from invasion from the sea by terrorists, defending its vital interests in the Med and Red Seas, but also losing vessels and crews to land-launched anti-ship missiles and tragically losing a diesel sub with all hands in the ‘60s (to what was later shown to be a collision at sea). Don’t forget it’s been at the center of PR crises involving losses inflicted on foreign neutral warships and activist non-combatants alike.

Against this background, Israel has, for decades, maintained a small submarine force – interestingly, in partnership with Germany — maker of “frighteningly effective” (as Winston Churchill called them) diesel subs in WWI and WWII. Germany has since manufactured the Type 206, then the global best-seller Type 209 and most recently, the Howaldtswerke-Deutche Werft AG’s state-of-the-art Type 212 U-boats.  (Type 214 designates the export-model 212; Dolphin-class is Israel’s name for their customized 214s.) From the 209 on, these are available with conventional diesel-electric power plus air-independent propulsion. The fuel cell AIP system allows quiet, continuously submerged and non-snorkeling, low-speed cruising for up to 84 days at a time.

Israel is reported to have deployed, for some time, three pure-diesel Dolphin-class boats, and will expand via a total now of three additional Dolphins with AIP to a total of six subs by 2013. Each of these is supposedly armed with nuclear-tipped, torpedo tube-launched cruise missiles in addition to a handful of German-made wire guided high explosive torpedoes. An early version of such cruise missile was derived from the U.S. Navy’s Sub-Harpoon, with a rather small nuke payload and a range of some 75 miles. The boats patrol submerged (as much as each design permits) mostly in the Med but more recently also in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. They serve as a second strike capability, a sub-launched nuclear deterrent analogous to, for instance, the U.S. Navy’s current SSBNs; the aging nuclear propelled Ohio-class which usually go out for 70-day “Hide with Pride” patrols.

That is, except for the first 4 Ohios, which were modified into highly successful SSGNs for conventional cruise missile barrages and heavy special ops deployment and support. The basic German designs and/or the customizations for Israel can be SSGs too, since their (up to ten?) cruise missiles can certainly be conventionally armed. The subs can also carry a few (ten?) commandos with their gear, and deploy and retrieve them via an internal lock-in/lock-out chamber.  Swimmer delivery vehicles (up to four?) can be carried in the wider of the torpedo tubes (25.5-inch vice 21-inch) serving as ersatz dry deck shelters. These Israeli U-boats can also deploy undersea mines, useful in extremis in the littoral waters with heavy shipping where the IDF supposedly sends them.

Just last week, more information was released officially in Berlin and Jerusalem regarding Israel’s latest submarine deal; the purchase of a modified “Type 212” (does the media mean Type 214?) from Germany, with – as with prior deals – a substantial level of cost subsidization and financing by the German government.  The new sub is also “nuclear capable,” a term generally meaning it has been equipped with the additional electronics and mechanical systems needed for nuclear weapons safety, surety, and firing.

The media is saying this sub can launch ballistic missiles, though almost certainly this should say cruise missiles — such as Israel’s new Popeye Turbo with a range of nearly 1,000 miles at a Tomahawk-like speed of maybe Mach 0.7. The design limitations of both the small sub (22-foot beam) and a big, heavy theater ballistic nuclear missile (Scud B is 37′ x 35”) seem to preclude the one fitting inside the other. A ballistic missile’s fast warhead delivery time, via high hypersonic (Mach 16?) speeds and a necessarily trans-atmospheric trajectory (like the old V-2’s), though valuable for a second-strike weapon, comes at substantial cost in length and mass.  The problem is like trying to deploy Trident strategic ballistic missiles inside a lengthened and/or (noisy, unstable) hunch-backed Virginia-class SSN, as some sort of poor man’s Ohio-replacement SSBN.  However, in Israel’s case, theater-wide ranges with up to 90-minute delivery times, such as Popeye Turbo’s, are truly strategic.

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{ 76 comments… read them below or add one }

Robert Mandel July 24, 2011 at 5:31 pm

Are the mullahs concerned about a retaliatory strike,or are they willing to die in order to just get off a nuclear first strike on Tel Aviv? Does anyone have any idea as to whether Teheran is willing to risk nuclear obliteration? I do not think any body really knows.

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BGrubbs July 24, 2011 at 7:33 pm

The fact that you even raise the question should be enough of a scare for us all. Even in the depths of the Cold War, we new the Soviets were rational actors who would not commit national suicide for their dogmatic beliefs. MAD worked with the Soviets. I wish we were as confident with Iran.

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blight July 24, 2011 at 7:59 pm

I like to think that it does, but only because they knew they lack enough weapons to fend off Israel /and/ the Crusader states. Islam would be destroyed and they know it, as the nuclear monopoly belongs to the west.

Iran is more than content to try and win the Long War non-conventionally, and by not using nukes. There aren't Palestinian refugees on their doorstep, like with Egypt.

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GunnyJames July 25, 2011 at 11:49 am

Probably, since most of the "religous" leaders are in Qom.

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Jorge Banner July 25, 2011 at 12:18 pm

No, they don't. They expect a kind of 2nd Coming of their own or something of the kind so they'll walk willingly into their own nuclear holocaust if they think that they will thus hasten their religious fantasies.

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Cranky Observer July 25, 2011 at 5:25 pm

Kinda like the End Times thing?

Cranky

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Khu43 July 24, 2011 at 8:19 pm

Why is the German taxpayer forced to pay for Israel's submarines? Is that part of the 6billion the Germans are required to pay Israel till the end of time?

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huh July 24, 2011 at 8:45 pm

Is this a question out of genuine curiosity? Or is this a rhetorical question just to satisfy your hatred for the Jews/Israel, Mein Fuhrer?

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justaying July 25, 2011 at 5:47 pm

So if people aren't helping Israelis, they're Nazis? Well, this blog and its readers surely aren't biased at all.

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm

i thought it was all payed ages ago…

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Steve July 28, 2011 at 5:42 pm

im going to assume this is a genuine question__the so called tax payer money is providing jobs for the germans building the subs which in return lowers the unemployment in the country and makes it look like the goverment is actually working__every goverment in the world does that__and to be fair the germans are doing this with many other coutries__add to that the fact that the money you claim germany pays israel goes to survivors of the holocaust and their family's its NOT being used to pay for stuff israel needs its being payed for individuals approved by israel and germany -that where real survivors ( i happen to know an israeli who's grandfather was at auschwitz they stoped recieving the money the second his grandfather died) -for the record im a non jewish american

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STemplar July 24, 2011 at 9:00 pm

Probably because justice requires the millions of German taxpayers who stood by and did nothing while millions of jews and other eastern Europeans were herded and slaughtered like cattle to balance the scale in some meaningful historical fashion. A fashion that both tries to offer restitution for undeniable misdeeds, as well as, serve as a serious example how those forms of behavior will haunt a nation and require punishment as a result. Just thoughts off the top of my head.

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Bill July 25, 2011 at 12:08 am

…do you run the same arguement for Irish/Scottish descendents… or Chinese descendents… or Native American descendents…. or African Slavery descendents… or South African descendents… or maybe Aztec/Mayan descendents

Truth be told, if you follow that logic, then everybody owes everybody

Germans in Nazi Germany were to be shot on site if thought to be Jewish sympathizers – Not all Germans in nazi germany were nazis.

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blight July 25, 2011 at 12:58 am

People like White Rose paid for their opposition to the regime by trading their lives for their sacred honor. It's not an easy choice: oh, just "fight for your rights", especially in a country like Third Reich Germany. Your wife, kids and parents will pay for your "crimes", and few people are willing to get their loved ones sucked into a punishment regime they are more than willing to bear themselves.

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jgarbuz November 27, 2011 at 11:46 am

Who owes what to the Scots-Irish? Britain? I thought the Scots-Irish compensated themselves by taking millions of square miles of land from the native "indians!" How much larger is Kentucky and Tennessee than Ireland or SCotland? The Aztec-Maya still have their land, but they just need fairer treatment from the Spaniards whose ancestors conquered them.

And how many Nazis paid with their lives for their crimes? Maybe 1,000 or so? And how many American soldiers were stationed in Germany to protect them from the Soviets, and allowed them become prosperous again? Germany has nothing to complain about. The monies have paid out to the Jews is drop in the bucket and certainly has not affected the strength of the German economy. Germany destroyed 1/3rd of the Jewish nation, and it is their duty to supply it with the tools it needs to defend itself by itself forever. We still have troops in Germany and even a treaty of alliance. Israel has no treaty of alliance with anybody. Nobody is going to send troops to fight for ISrael, and ISrael never asked for any. Just the arms, not the flesh and blood.

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm

well or palestinians. didn't they kill ~1500 of them (including unarmed) a while ago?

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Robert A. Fritts August 14, 2011 at 11:32 pm

actually no. the biggest assault of civilian palestinians was by the Jordanians, with lots of help from Egypt and Syria when Yassar Arafat's PLO tried to overthrow King Hussien. Palestinians had become a problem in Jordan when they tried to revert back to the original UN Plan of everything East of the Jordan river was Palestine and everything West of the Jordan was Israel. This concluded with Arafat and Fatah(the PLO's military wing) leaving Jordan for Beruit. This occured in the month of September. The official name of Fatah translates from Arabic as "Black September" commemorating a huge attack on Palestinians by Muslim Arabs, not Israelis.

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Duke Snider July 25, 2011 at 11:26 am

Why does that upset you, KHU? Are you a German taxpayer?

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TLAM Strike July 24, 2011 at 9:38 pm

"Type 214 designates the export-model 212; Dolphin-class is Israel’s name for their customized 214s."

That is incorrect the Dolphin is a highly modified Type 209 1300/1400/1500 design. The Type 212 incorporated some of the streamlining features from the Dolphin.

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Joe Buff July 24, 2011 at 10:22 pm

TLAM Strike: thanks much for your comment. What I said is the info given me privately for this article to clarify ambiguities/errors in what is said in the media, including military-oriented trade press. That person is a former Submariner Skipper then 4-striper who actively consults to the US SubForce now. But perhaps he is also wrong?

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Joe Schmoe July 24, 2011 at 10:41 pm

He is, TLAM Strike is correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_209_submarine

"The Dolphin class submarines built for the Israeli navy are a based on the Type 209 although heavily modified and enlarged."

The 209's have been in service since 1971, the 214's just came online in 2007. How the heck could Israel have been operating for decades a submarine from the future?

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TLAM Strike July 24, 2011 at 11:26 pm

The Dolphins were entering commission (INS Dolphin in 1998) while the Type 212s were being built (initial ORDER for German Navy placed in 1998) and the 214s were still a pile of blueprints.

The Dolphins can't be based on a submarine that didn't exist yet.

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THAT GUY July 25, 2011 at 2:50 am

* I like how the above facts are based on Wikipedia.

I think it’s awesome that Israel is getting U-boats.

Who would of thought.

Peace.

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Joe Schmoe July 25, 2011 at 3:59 am

On that same note of irony; Israel's first planes were mainly BF-109's and first rifles were KAR-98's.

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blight July 25, 2011 at 3:00 pm

But they were Czech, so it was okay?

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crackedlenses July 25, 2011 at 6:48 pm

It was complete ownage on the Israeli's part; they took weapons meant and designed by their worst enemies and used them on their worst enemies…..

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blight July 25, 2011 at 8:58 pm

The Israelis were in a position to help themselves to the surplus weapons of World War 2, and eventually acquired Spitfires and the like. They fielded a motley of equipment against armies that were somewhat less motley, but much less determined to win (or at least, lacked a unified command).

Roland July 25, 2011 at 6:19 am

They (Israelis) wont probably need us (USA) in the event of a conflict with Iran if they have 1000's of this.

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gue July 25, 2011 at 6:30 am

According to Jpost: "Germany donated Israel’s first two submarines after the first Gulf War and, according to the German press, split the cost of the third with Israel."
And according to Reuters (as quoted on Wikipedia): "The two submarines [4 & 5] cost, overall, around 1.3 billion euro, of up to one-third was paid by Germany."
And again Jpost/Der Spiegel about n. 6: "[Germany] will subsidize the deal with a total of 135 million euros… The vessel will cost between $500 million and $700m." => a 20-25% subsidy.

The subsidy decreases over time. Make of it what you will.

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AJMBLAZER July 25, 2011 at 9:18 am

Don't forget that like the US's relationship with Israel using their weapons, Germany has benefited from Israel using their weaponry. We operate several weapon designs (Popeye comes to mind) and have changed and upgraded designs due to Israel using them or modifying them. Germany might be willing to do the same since they will benefit from Israel's tweaking of their products and then sharing some of this with them.

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Joe Schmoe July 25, 2011 at 9:55 am

Indeed.

To get a quick idea of how much other countries use Israeli technology in their own weapon system, check out this picture:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 12:46 pm

that is the proposed international LCS variant. it's actually armed, unlike the us one.

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 12:47 pm

i doubt germans need any tweaking of their weapons. can you name a german weapon in israeli use (apart from the subs)? i can't.

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John Moore July 25, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Why are they green as opposed to black like most other subs?

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Atomic Walrus July 25, 2011 at 1:09 pm

Camoflage. Black is actually the worst color you could choose for a submarine in terms of visual detection in clear water.

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John Moore July 25, 2011 at 1:53 pm

TX I figured it has something to do with water color so why are ours black then?

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blight July 25, 2011 at 2:46 pm

Probably that American subs will never operate in a littoral zone, therefore it won't be a big deal. The Navy has oriented itself towards countering enemy threats coming from ships (MAD, sonar) and subs (sonar) moreso than visual detection.

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PolicyWonk July 25, 2011 at 2:07 pm

While Isreal officially neither confirms or denies having nukes, the US Army DID confirm Isreal having nukes a year ago last Spring in their international capabilities assessment report. That sort of puts the US into a quandry, as it is illegal fo rhte US to give aid to nuclear countries that deny having them.

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Doubtom July 25, 2011 at 2:25 pm

In case it has escaped your notice, governments, and ours is no different, operate within their own idea of legal and illegal; essentially, whatever is illegal for an individual to do, it's perfectly all right for the government to do. That includes gambling, murder, theft, genocide, phone tapping, violation of civil rights, just to cover a few. This is a public service.

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PolicyWonk July 25, 2011 at 2:09 pm

Oh yes – the Iranians, even if they get nukes, might make a lot of noise, but they'll NEVER attack Isreal. Because they know Iran will be turned into a sea of glass in the retaliatory strike – just like it was between the US and USSR.

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Jay July 26, 2011 at 3:33 pm

You are totally wrong.

The leadership of Iran has said over and over they want to destroy Israel. Their president and mullahs believe in the cult of the 12th imam, and they want to bring him by triggering an apocolyptic war. When somebody says they are going to kill you, you should listen.

The doctrine of MAD that kept us alive during the cold war doesn't work when one side is actually stark raving suicidal jihad mad and doesn't mind dying to kill you.

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm

they already have chem and bio weapons and the perfect delivery method (hamas and scuds for example).
idiot

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mingthemerciless August 8, 2013 at 10:23 pm

Hamas is practically out of the terror business and Iran's missile systems are now a joke, often blowing up in storage, very often coincidentally as high management happen to be in proximity…

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Lance July 25, 2011 at 2:50 pm

This is a must for Israel since this is the only way they could take out Iranian nuclear facilities is with a missile attack by sub from the Indian ocean or Persian Gulf.

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Cranky Observer July 25, 2011 at 5:28 pm

Actually about 3 years ago the Prime Minster of Israel confirmed, albeit accidentally, that Israel does possess nuclear weapons. Which as noted above creates an immediate conflict with US Non-Proliferation Act, which conflict was immediately ignored.

Cranky

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justaying July 25, 2011 at 5:44 pm

Since when did scud missiles become WMDs?

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blight July 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm

They've always potentially carried nuclear, biological or chemical payloads, but luckily the Soviets did not export them. With conventional warheads, "mass destruction" is eye of the beholder. For some, the -MD means doing things on a grand scale, like with a VX payload or with a 80 kt warhead. For others, taking out a single building is "mass destruction".

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Hunter78 July 25, 2011 at 6:24 pm

Israel cannot claim "foul" when her neighbors develop nukes.

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crackedlenses July 25, 2011 at 6:50 pm

Israel did not overwhelmingly invade her neighbors 3 times, allow terrorists to hurl rockets at their cities, and threaten to blow them off the map with nukes. Her neighbors have…….

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blight July 25, 2011 at 9:02 pm

And before that, did the Palestinians deserve to be deprived of their property under Balfour? Under any other circumstances, Americans would be outraged at the idea of a "global government" (more specifically, a transnational organization) making decisions about disenfranchising people. If anything, it's just the same thing the Nazis did, stripping Jews of their property before the yellow stars and rest of the hell that awaited them.

The United Nations gave Israel Israel out of guilt for being anti-Semitic in the '20s and '30s when it counted, and millions of lives could have been saved. Israel was purchased in the blood of women and children.

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crackedlenses July 25, 2011 at 9:34 pm

The whole "Palestinian" thing is a crock. The area was desolate before the Israeli immigrants began settling it. Miraculously, they turned it into something worth having. Many of the other assorted people living in the area then ditched during the 1948 war, despite the Israelis asking them to stay. Those that stayed integrated, those that ditched became squatters and blamed it all on Israel.

Yes, the Israelis could have handled things better, but they are justified in what they have had to do, and the surrounding nations have had no excuse for trying to completely wipe them out…….

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ben July 26, 2011 at 12:36 am

The Balfour declaration was not legally binding, and the UN resolution only acknowledged sovereignty. Neither had anything to do with individual property rights.

Furthermore, the Israel never confiscated the property of their arab citizens who chose to remain in 1948.
Those arab citizens who fled to lebanon, syria, jordan, and egypt in 1948 in the belief that Israel would be pushed into the sea forfeited their right to their property in Israeli territory through that act of treason. (Israeli territory here indicating areas within the 1948 border)

As for the people who live on the land Israel has captured in war.
Are the israelis guilty of denying citizenship and politically disenfranchising the inhabitants of the occupied territories, yes. And they have also exercised eminent domain to construct roads and military installations within the occupied territories. (with occasional corruption scandals where decommissioned military bases were sold preferentially to Israeli developers instead of allowing the original owners to reclaim the land.)
But they have never actually divested these "palestinians" of their property en mass.

The current poverty of the palestinians is directly attributable to their own appalling leadership since the collapse of ottoman turkey. They bet on one losing horse after the other. Their leader during WW2 was made an honorary SS general for crying out loud.
The smart ones are those that stayed in Israel in 1948 and took advantage of the resources the Jewish community brought to bear in restoring the infrastructure from the centuries of neglectful ottoman rule.
If the jews hadn't returned home, the entire territory would still be just as bad off as they found it. You don't see Syria or Jordan producing world class export technology.

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blight July 26, 2011 at 1:00 am

You're right in that Balfour was little more than a note. It did lead to the Mandate, and it certainly sounds like they did their best to play along with it. Reading about the Mandate is interesting stuff, and is a valuable precursor to discussions on the eventual statehood of Israel.

Israel did not expel all Arabs (hence Israeli Arabs and Bedouins), though in '49 during combat itself, there were expulsions and attacks on civilians made by both sides. Messy stuff. Israel certainly wasn't going to let people in right after a war, as that would risk Fifth Column penetration. Expelling the Arabs who had proven their loyalty (or neutrality) seemed like a bad idea, especially if it would provoke the Arab nations into a second round of fighting.

blight July 26, 2011 at 1:06 am

Interesting notes:

Apparently Jordan has oil shale, but no water to go with it (for extraction).

And Israel has natural gas. I sense new players in energy policy in the long term.

That said, Jordan has no serious motivations for advanced military technology. They're not the ones with tons of enemies. Even though they seem to have a cozy relationship with Israel (and were probably the coziest Arab country) nobody seems to realize this. They might be the only Arab nation to actually kick out Palestinian refugees and get away with it.

Joe Buff July 25, 2011 at 10:53 pm

The delivery system is not the WMD, the warhead is the thing.

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blight July 25, 2011 at 11:42 pm

Don't need mass destruction when you aim at high value targets. For instance, into a fuel or ammo dump. Or more likely, into a public park, a school or a shopping mall.

Israel will probably adjust their settlement patterns based on how much standoff range they can maintain from settlements most likely to pop off Qassam rockets and mortar rounds.

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Timothy Smart July 26, 2011 at 6:50 am

In reference to PolicyWonk:

You could be correct to assume that Iran/Israel is similar to USSR/US(and allies) but the REAL reason that Iran is not going to nuke Israel is because just as Israel sees Israel as the holy land given to them by God, Muslims also believe that the same ground is holy to them, and that the land should be incorporated into the all-muslim state of 'Palestine'.

That's not to say however, that one of Israel's enemies might sanction a contained and restricted attack on a smaller city or military base. But why would a Muslim country destroy want they want for themselves. The greatest danger to Israel involving nuclear weapons is that posed by freelance or organisational terrorists.

and also, in reference to the WMD debate, in my view, a delivery vehicle counts as a WMD when it's only use is as a weapons vehicle. For example, a SSBN (like the US ohio) could be used for cruise missiles or special forces (like someone mentioned earlier in this article), just as a bomber aircraft can be used for cargo, air-drops, other weapons, transport etc. However a delievery body such as Trident is only used as a nuclear carrier, therefore it is a WMD

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LEP1 July 26, 2011 at 1:29 pm

The article erroneously mentions that the Israeli IDF Navy has lost warships to land-based anti-ship missiles. In the late-1960s (after the June 1967 Six Day War) Egyptian Soviet-made fast attack missile boats (Komar class?) sank the Israeli IDF Navy destroyer EILAT with Styx SSMs (EILAT was a British-built ex-Egyptian Navy destroyer that had been captured by Israeli forces during the 1956 Suez Crisis and returned to service under Israeli colors) . IDF Navy missile boats of the Saar (modified French Combattante I class) successfully engaged Syrian Soviet-built missile boats during the October 1973 War with SSMs, and were also able to defend against incoming high trajectory and very subsonic Styx SSMs both with ECM and conventional 20 mm and 12.7 mm A/A fire. On July 12, 2006 the IDF Navy missile corvette HANIT (Saar VII class) was hit by an Iranian copy of the Chinese C802 SSM or by an Iranian-made Kowsar SSM that was launched from land by Hezbollah forces in the area of Beirut, Lebanon. HANIT suffered serious damage and lost four (4) of her crew but did not sink and since then has been repaired and returned to active duty.

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Oblat July 26, 2011 at 3:33 pm

Makes a strong case for an Iranian nuclear deterrent.

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Earren July 27, 2011 at 8:37 am

For those that actually care to be informed and can read without prejudging, i recommend the following book: The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and Its Proliferation; by Thomas C. Reed. Enjoy.

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Roland July 27, 2011 at 9:07 am

Maybe Israel needs to reinvent itself and produce its own subs for thier country's self defense.

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Tom July 27, 2011 at 2:59 pm

The cost of building a domestic submarine building base in Israel (which has no significant shipbuilding industry) would be prohibitively expensive given the small number of submarines they have.

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israeli July 27, 2011 at 9:43 am

I think a strong israel in the middle east is the west interest, just imagine the middle east with out israel?
who will be in charge?
IRAN??!! TURKEY?? IRAQ?? LOL SYRIA??

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Timothy Smart July 27, 2011 at 12:27 pm

none of them would effectively rule the ME. They'd spend too much time quarrelling about who was right or wrong. Much like parliment, only nation states

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 3:25 pm

why is it the west interest? peaceful saudi arabia is for example.

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aSDF July 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm

the funny thing is that iran has had WMD for a long time – chem and bio, and nobody is complaining much.

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Jean July 29, 2011 at 12:05 am

Why does the American gov't continue to send billions of our taxpayer dollars to Israel when all they do with it is buy weapons that help enslave the native arab population? This seems to go against everything American was founded upon.

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bubba birner September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm

Great let Israel nuke the Iraqis and all the other rag heads and do the job for us

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madhur September 23, 2011 at 3:37 am

this news report about K-15 Sagarika / Sea Lance is shared development between India and Israel absolutely fantastic imaginative reporting from some journalist…where is the proof so support such speculation ?

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another israeli October 6, 2011 at 4:43 pm

germans are not stuped
they are giving to israel for free 3 subs israel buynig 3 subs
the next year every one how has the $ want to buy german subs
why not ,they are the best disel subs there is – israel has some.
look at the hestory -'' f-16 fighters'' today everyone has them
it's simple ,just good business – that's all .

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jgarbuz November 27, 2011 at 11:36 am

First of all, Germany's debt to the Jewish nation is ETERNAL and it is the duty of the German nation to do everything possible to help protect the existence of the Jewish nation FOREVER. Nobody is asking Germany to send troops to fight alongside the IDF, but all Israel asks is the hardware with which to defend itself.
As for the Restitution payments paid out by Germany, they come out to maybe $15,000 for every Jew they murdered. Only a few thousand Nazis ever paid with their lives for the crimes they committed. Just the amount of Jewish properties lost and destroyed alone is estimated to have been 3 times that which Germany has paid out to date. And the number of Jews living in Germany today is only 1/4 of what it was before 1933, and Polish Jewry was 90% wiped out, with only 1% left in Poland today.

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Elijah November 27, 2011 at 12:01 pm

Just thinking about going underwater scares me. Its hard to tell what one may lose down there.

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brian July 25, 2011 at 4:53 pm

they have already fulfilled the requirements of reparations to Israel, this is just normal payoffs to keep submarine workers employed

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blight July 25, 2011 at 4:58 pm

Indeed, lest Israel buy subs from…France? Sweden? Certainly not America, which is exclusively SSN and no SSKs.

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TLAM Strike July 26, 2011 at 11:09 am

They also got some B-17s of all things at that time. ;)

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blight July 27, 2011 at 12:26 am

It's more about enriching the defense industry (and growing a military brain trust in the MidEast). We know we can't use them as our shock troops because Arab nations harbor an intense dislike for them. On some realpolitik level they are a beginning domino of domino theory: if we abandon Israel, the Muslims spread across the planet, or something like that.

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