Well, this is certainly noteworthy. These images clearly show the lights on aboard China’s first aircraft carrier, the Shi Lang (ex Soviet Varyag). Remember a few months ago when we saw pictures of exhaust coming from the ship’s stack? How about when those weapons started appearing on board? Then we saw how scaffolding and other construction gear were being removed from the ship. This is just one more sign of how close the refurbished ship is to putting to sea. (Many estimates have put its maiden voyage as happening sometime this year.)
Also note how the mid-ship jet blast deflector is in the up position in these photos.
{ 114 comments… read them below or add one }
CHINA needs to BUY NEW SHIPS FROM US….THE U.S.A Instead of old junk from the soviets!!!!
That's not an option.
Oh, don't worry… If the Tea Baggers actually force us into default, we're going to have to hold a Fire Sale! Nuclear Carrier Task Forces (plural), Boomers…
Hey, anybody want to buy the U.S.S. Constitution? :(
anyone that's calls someone a "Tea Bagger" is actually a "douch bagger" himself
Hahaha Soon US will be selling her Air Crafts carriers to China in order to pay interests on the US Treasury Bonds that China have!
why did you even comment?..you dont have a clue do you
People are trapped in the idea that "jobs are important", and that we should sell our tech lead for very short term gains.
@ mary the soviets have steller stuff if they had the technology to better it it would be the bomb
Fuck no. China must be stopped.
Of course, and there's no suspense. China's only carrier is ex-soviet junk and still not fully operational. On the other hand US has 11 carrier attack groups. Just run a blockade and send down some Jedi for a force negotiation. In the meantime, drop our robot troops and p**&@^%#$
…oh wait.
Tell me exactly what is the name of some of the country that China has invaded and killing the innocent populations. USA last time I checked was at war with half of the middle east country and trying to start another with Pakistan. China step in and said enough you attack Pakistan and we'll consider it an attack on us. LMAO!! The bully is not getting his way so he's not too happy. I'm sorry but USA is the " EVIL EMPIRE ".
Tibet
First, China has thousands years of history and the number wars it waged are much more than you can count. Second, in the modern history, China invaded or tried to invade Tibet, Vietnam. It also used force to claim a large chunk of South China Sea that didnt belong to it. So next time, educate yourself first.
Also CHina is a brutal dictatorship that crushes dissent. Tienamen Square anyone? They havent changed, they just got better at surpressing it or the gov't owned media just willingly ignores it because we are indebted to them
The Chinese and PLA will tell you their goal is to conquer other countries – namely Taiwan, and whatever they can gobble up in the S China Sea, which they see as exclusively theirs.
They even fought the Soviets for a little while. They are historically quite belligerent, and if you count their internal bloodlettings and "cultural revolutions" then they have killed hundreds of times more people than the US has.
The US is a pretty crappy "empire" – we invade someone, spend billions of dollars, lose thousands of soldiers…And then we LEAVE, and we send them foreign aid, train their army, and buy their oil. Anyone from one of the classic empires of the 19th century would think we are totally nuts for not staying put and stealing the oil and double nuts for teaching the locals how to fight.
why? china's militray isn't a threat to the usa, china is just getting their frist air craft carrier, this is a great event, china's tech is rather low even in today's world, many countries have air craft carriers but no one has more than two other than the UK and the usa, the UK has 4 and the USA has 11 and 2 still being made, you also have to remember that air craft carrier won't really be able to do much since its about 3/5s the size of a usa one and china is still training crew and fixing the ship it may be ready by around 2020 or later to be a real defense but till then it is sadly lacking in power and defense,
Damn.. We (westerners mostly US) are playing Chess, China is playing Go… Interesting times
Sorry! The idea of selling ANY U.S. technology, ships, plans, etc to China is akin to treason! Dont forget folks, the Chinese are a COMMUNIST nation!!! I know that doesnt mean a whole lot to the younger generation, but we who've grown up during the Cold War period understand the ramifications. The Chinese are like a duck, on the surface all calm and nice, but under the surface furiously paddling away at gaining technological advantage to challenge the U.S. as the supreme power.
Give it a break, Jerry. If you grown up during cold war you should be mature enough to know that it has always been about global domination than anything else. Ideology is just a pretext. Refer to any wars waged in the past 2,000 years in the name of some divine being or belief systems.
Oh and during the 80s US proposed to sell F-16-J79 to China, and then F-15 ASSEMBLY LINE for licensed production, and finally deal went through for several black hawks, to counter the threat of Soviet Union.
Treason? No, just our interests.
I do understand the ramifications. Whenever the word "communist" or "communism" is mentioned, the older generation has a heart attack. True communism is the purest form of democracy.
True communism will never exist, so stop defending it.
Neither will true democracy, fool.
Its funny how the only people who love communism are the one who never live with it.
Communism does not work in the current state of human civilization, just like capitalism and democracy does not work during stone ages.
The ideology of communism is not evil, the execution has been questionable in the 20th century. So what, the first 100 years of capitalism is not exactly pretty and classical democracy fall into imperialism "with thundering applause".
For better or worse, we humans are exploring better social and economical systems throughout history.
Before you hate, try to first understand, or you are just showing your ignorance.
It would be short sighted to sell weapons to China as they are already a threat to the Western hegemony and our political influence in Asia. China's getting ready to take its share of the burden and glory.
You don't understand the ramifications, you are just more brainwashed. It was hard to avoid in those days on either side.
How is that different than letting them have our computer technology to build all of our computers. So that they now have the technololgy to design space projects.
Design better ballistic rockets, sell those computers to North Korea so that they
can build nuclear weapons and better rockets to sell to Iran.
Sounds like a good opportunity to have a VA class pay it a visit on its maiden voyage and 'wave' hello……
Or Seawolf class
I don’t see what the big deal is about china having a p.o.s of a ship, yeah the building of military equipment of communists should be monitored but we shouldn’t freak out, we build ships, tanks, planes, guns etc everyday.
How about the fact its all aimed at taiwan and we have an obligaiton to protect Taiwan that is if our world is still to be believed once it happens,
Lets not forget all the amphibious ships they are building, and their new found intrest in MRAP's, and American denial weapons ( DF-21D, which does not exist yet ). Id say the invasion of Taiwan is inevitable.
An invasion of Taiwan is not inevitable. The Chinese have offered semi-autonomy á la Hong Kong ("two systems, one nation") to Taiwan.
The Taiwanese have themselves shown political interest in re-uniting, leading political parties and politicians have advocated talks.
There's even growing interest in China for Taiwanese culture and Traditional Chinese [language]. Never mind the huge amount of trade and cross-investment!
I'm not sure 95%ish voting in the 2008 referendum for independence qualifies as showing political interest in reunification. The Taiwanese government is playing the US and China off each other to hold out for the best deal, those referendum numbers pretty clearly show the average Taiwanese has no interest in being part of China.
USA protecting Taiwan is like China protecting Hawaii if General Robert E. Lee were to moved there and set up a military style dictatorship after the civil war is over. Cheng Kai Cheick lost the civil war to Mao Tse Tung, Taiwan is China territory and its a renegade state they have every right to take it, USA should mind their own business.
Robert E Lee died in 1870 28 years before the overthrow of the Queen. If you're asuming Taiwan has some sort of Dictatorship run government I have never heard of such a thing.
Taiwan under KMT was a one party gig for quite some time…
What obligation? Nixon (R-CA) threw Taiwan under the bus, playing the end-game by dividing China against the Soviets. Maybe he appeased China by burning South Vietnam at Paris.
and their parts are made in China.
"We build ships, tanks, planes guns,etc,etc" with borrowed money from places like China the great. And sometimes I wonder who the "we" really are, if not the big corporations with all the resultant effect on the majority of docile / gullible Americans.
this is important for CHina, especially wen it will come to beating the shit out of USA n India. N it's evn better dat they r buying the ships from russia instead of USA.
Troll
Time to get used to it: unless China's economy implodes, they will be fielding a powerful blue-water navy, complete with much more modern carriers than the Shi Lang, by the middle of the century. And the U.S.'s most capable warships will be submarines fully capable of handling any Chinese naval threat. And if no one loses their heads, we can still both safely co-exist.
The Chinese have already turned their sights inward, their economy is focused on domestic growth and consumption. They're not taking any chances on economic instability outside of China. It's highly likely their economy will function well.
That being said historically China has never been fond of foreign conquests outside of its own neighborhood. They have more than enough to deal with in Tibet, Russia, Korea, Japan and Taiwan.
"China has never been fond of foreign conquests outside of its own neighborhood" thats merely because of technological and ideological limits in the past. Neighborhood is a relative term you know. One may say the whole world is neighborhood.
I'm talking about actual history and cultural values here.
The Chinese fleet travelled as far as Africa a few centuries ago. They could have invaded and occupied a whole lot of places along their route, but at the time their culture saw no value in such foreign lands.
The whole point of that fleet was to bring glory to the Emperor. After that giant fleet returned they burned the ships, closed the ship building yards and forbid travel for a long time. The British and French forced them to open their ports.
I believe the Chinese will only fight to keep their territory, including disputed islands and such, to ensure their security (see Russia, Japan, India and possibly North Korea), and to secure their access to vital resources such as oil, gas and materials.
It's quite obvious that the latter will likely force them to use force at one point or another. Despite their extensive agreements with African and Latin American resource rich countries, they may have to back up their claims with troops on the ground.
China had the manpower and technology to conquer their neighbours centuries ago. They invented gun powder. Despite that they have been the subject of invasions, not the other way around. Russia has stolen land from them several times. Japan has been repelled countless times. India lost the last conflict.
I find it interesting that you claim they needed another ideology to become outwardly aggressive. The African resource "grab" is certainly one form of aggression motivated by continued economic expansion (capitalist). However it doesn't have an adverse effect on their international relations. If their goal is stable economic growth, how does disrupting international trade serve them?
What do you base this on?
Their economy is focused on capital growth, not consumption. They are stuck buying our bonds to keep their currency stable, and even they they are having increasing consumer inflation. Define "function well" for us please.
"They" might not be taking chances with their economy, but China is not a monolith. The PLA has interests as well, one of which is challenging us and expanding their sphere of influence, and grabbing Taiwan if possible.
Then it sounds like that PLA hardliners may attempt to wrest control of the country in a different direction from its free-marketeers. The Russians had similar experiences in the post-USSR turmoil.
Don't worry too much there carrier is still NOT active the Indians are beating the Chinese in carrier numbers. they don't even have planes for it yet yes there looking at both Russian and domestic SU-33 but no buys yet.
Let China collapse by itself or have India nuke it.
A Sino-Indian nuclear war would be an interesting form of population control. I wonder how many bombs per day would be necessary to at minimum result in zero population growth in the two most populous countries in the world.
Reminds me of an Ian Douglass book I read once where a US Marine in Siberia muses that the US and Russians kill 10,000 of them a day and China's birthrate still makes up for the losses.
Well China's population only increased by something like 0.5% last year, and is expected to start to fall in the coming decade. India will be the most populous nation in the world soon, probably around 2020.
So yeah, One-Child works. If nothing changes, China will probably get old before they get rich or powerful, just like Japan.
You must have forgotten the 1962 Sino – Indian war. Indian would never ever fight the Chinese on their own. Please do a little reasearch before opening your foul mouth. LOL!!
funny thing about nuking China. First off, make sure you Indians have the missile to deliver, or more accurately, make sure the missile does not fall on your own heads.
I don't know about this Lance idiot.So fast he wants to nuke
China.He must have a deep hatre for China or something that makes his twisted mind to come to this conclusion.Stupid fool who does not know the consequences of a nuclear war to open his foul mouth to nuke this and that.Must be thinking from his ass.
No big deal they are still decades behing, they still have to figure out how to use it and also they need a few more to even be a threat.
If they *just* attack and retake Taiwan it will be a real threat to the US and the whole world. The impact would seriously hurt the US/World economy, the Chinese economy would survive it easily.
The Chinese are not interested in conquering the US, it will do plenty to dominate Asia physically, they already have a huge economic foot everywhere else. It will not take them a decade to "become" a threat.
Let them build it and feel good about themselves. In a war this ship would be lucky to last all but 5 minutes with all hands lost.
Davy Jones would welcome them.
I agree, but unfortunately, the same is true with US carriers.
Hey Howe, the same can be said for everything
Nothing is 100% impervious in wartime, there are only degrees of protection, there will be losses of everything in a real shooing war, we will lose tanks, ships, subs and aircraft and perhaps a carrier
AND we will lose lots of soldiers, pilots and sailors AND will will lose
many precious F-22s, B-2 bombers, C-5s, and EVERY land base we have in the Pacific will be wiped off the planet.
So how does that logic change your thinking, should we just give up? Perhaps we should just wave the white flag now?
well the us carrier groups are well armed with plenty of experience. china sadly has none and if china loses its carrier, no more while and US will have a dozen more.
Cue Return of the Empire music.
China will now reverse engineer this aircraft carrier with information from Wikileaks and other internet sources concerning the US Nimitz class carrier to develop their own aircraft carrier and the engineering effort like their J-20 stealth fighter will be funded by US tax-dollars that the US needs to pay for the US Debt we've accumulated; this aircraft carrier is a training tool like the Russian fighter jets that China has bought and matched with world-class massively parallel processing supercomputers as well as an almost unlimited financial funding, China could have a Nimitz or Ford class carrier in 10-15 years (because you still need the skilled manpower to build something this massive).
What info do you get on an aircraft carrier from "Wikileaks" and "other internet sources"? Beam, draft, armament. Blueprints? Nope.
You could always buy a copy of "Anatomy of the Ship: The Aircraft Carrier Victorious" from Naval Institute Press. The Blueprints in that whole series are fantastic. I just wish they did more than three submarines.
Paid for (indirectly) by American Taxpayer's Dollars.
That's hardly the case. It's paid for by consumers spending from all over the *world*.
China is just one of many creditors the US government pays on a regular basis. I'm assuming you're talking about these tax dollars?
Hey guess what everyone?? its not just our tax dollars more money by far comes from anyone who shops at walmart is committing Treason, every company that has any kind of production on chinese soil is committing treason. our companies are so outrageously greedy that they will fund our communist enemies just to make a buck or a trillion. Hey its pathetic that GE is a double agent they produce products for our military but produce them on chinese soil. now you dont think for a second they dont steal the technology on everything that hits their soil, your too stupid to breath or reproduce if you think they dont.Wake up America!!!! and obama is a self proclaimed Domestic Enemy #1 of the Constitution.
Now maybe those fools in Congress will stop trying to cut OUR carriers and aircraft for them!
Now you're the fool! US carriers must be cut now to save money! Cut carriers now, so US won't cut carriers in the future! The cost savings will be used to save for more carriers in the future!
We've done this over the last two decades and are down to 11 carriers. If we cut any more those lying politicians aren't going to give us them back in the future because that is the way they operate. They'd cut today, promise to give us better carriers tomorrow, and never deliver on that promise.
The USA have 10 Aircraft Carrier and China is tryin to put a Carrier built 20years ago into service and USA is crying foul. WOW!! what a double standards society America lives in. Please tell me how many country have the great USA is invading the last five years?
Nobody is crying foul buddy.
Troll, set phasers to ban.
China has two more planned and have already chosen a build site… the problem is that while the chinese only have to operate in teh asian theater mostly, teh US has to operate world wide, with our "great and loyal allies' making fun of us and pointing fingers at our military while downscaling theirs, go figure, but your rt, 1 carrier whoopee. plus, hehe with our ssns and plethora of harpoon carrying grimreapers, good luck in an unlikely war
hey, lets not forget that when we fought in viet nam, we fought the chinese as well, also, we fought the chinese in korea as well. do we really want to help supply the chinese with our weapons, so they might use them against us if we might have to fight n. korea again. think about this
We? Your silly relatives might have put their lives on the line. Mine sure as hell didn't.
Not Vietnam but yes Korea. The USA lost both wars.
Call me crazy but didn't the Korean war end in an armistice?
Armistice it is but only after a 1000 mile retreat of the US.
Umm yes Vietnam, Russia was not the only supplier of military hardware. And
the Korean war ? Look at the North and the South now, and you can honstly say that the U.S. lost ?
WRT Korean war,
US – won,
China – won,
Korea – lost and suffering till this day
Don't forget the biggest war the Chinese and US ever fought together was the SECOND WORLD WAR against the Japanese. As for Viet and Kor, let's say if China invades Mexico and Canada, would US keep quiet? Tell us Chinese what we should have been doing during K and V war instead of fighting back.
another country can't have carriers? what idiots you are, deal with it. amerika is not the center of the universe.
Right on !! America are so double standards, they don'r realize that its them the evil the empire. LMAO!!
I figure most of American's problems are mostly caused from them Policy's.
I don't really care I'm in Canada.
you want to take on china I don't know how much of the rest of the world will help on that one.
Your Military is still the best in world.
As long as China doesn't attack we are just fine. Their Allies remember.
If the shooting starts your snively whinny butt will be in America thanking God our military is in front of you.
oh, so china is, zhongou even means it…. but hey, how else does the universe run? jk
you people who say whats the big deal will be crying when there is a war with china and you loose your life or the life of a loved one, due to a war with china….wake up our country is in a bad state, with a gov with their head up their as
We need to gear up against the Soviets too. They're just waiting to come back. We better nuke them before they nuke us. And Britain too, they might come back to colonize us. We can't take chances, now can we?
haha :D
warmongering at its best in this thread.
Don't worry my fellow RepubliKKKlan brownshirt, your President Barack HUSSEIN Obama has finally acquiesced with the RepubliKKKan Party's demands during the debt ceiling negotiations. Your bankrupt country can now buy an extra carrier to defeat China's new low-tech aircraft carrier. LOL
I think China needs to be deterred, but the threat represented by one crummy 20+ year old carrier is just a wee bit overblown. We always analyze this fictional as of yet US v China conflict as a one on one scenario. The fact is any likely conflict is going to draw in more than one nation. It's prudent to plan to go it alone, hope for the best plan for the worse, but the reality is that is really unlikely. The majority of the conflict scenarios involve some kind of regional dispute escalating and that implies nation(s) aside the US involved. So from China's perspective, they probably have to plan of facing multiple nations at once if they're smart.
The US shouldn't be concerned about China about to enter into service its first carrier. It will only be used for engineering research and training so don't wet your pants and skirts. Just try and think about the Chinese perspective. They have been invaded numerous times from the sea and have suffered MILLIONS of deaths as a result. Upgrading their naval capability to protect their coastline, offshore islands and merchant fleet is their priority, not trying to be a world policeman or toughguy bully that's only brave as part of a coalition (AKA lapdog follower). So anyone with any sense of reason would not be alarmed by this development.
Well, the Chinese stuff can't be that bad, the new SF/Oakland bay bridge is "made in China" :=
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global…
Here's are some important facts to keep in mind
-desertification of China's arable lands (they will continue to lose land to the desert- it can't be stopped)
-China only has 10 percent of the worlds arable lands, but 22 percent of the population (this is why they are buying up lots of land in Africa)
-continual population explosion (causing internal pressures)
-an economy completely dependent upon exports (they are building a bubble economy)
-continual territoral disputes (they claim the entire S, China sea as their own)
All of these facts combined "explain" China's rapid military buildup and bullying of it's neighbors. They are building up their military in order to take care of these issues. Look for China to "expand" north to Russia (resources) and or south (farmlands) within the next 10-15 yrs or sooner.
another factor is the 1-child policy leading to sex selective abortion and abandonment of female children.
There are many more men than women in China and the trend is accelerating.
What do you do with millions of excess young men who will never find a wife if they stay at home?
When the wheels come off the Chinese export economy, we are going to see a very interesting crisis with social, economic and military components. I just hope we are not standing near the fan when it hits.
that's a good point Jay, history has shown us over and over again that when there
are "excessive" numbers of men (to women) in a given country, then that country
uses it's men in war
I'd rather be allies with the Chinese than the Indians. They're way to close of a friend to Russia. Last time I checked, they lost to china during the Sino-Indian war. China's technology is getting better and they will have their j-20 operation by 2015. I can tell. They're hiring the intellects in America who are looking for jobs. We're also in some serious debt to China as well. Better to be friends as opposed to enemies. We can't keep it up.
First USED JUNK AIRCRAFT CARRIER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some facts might help you. The Varyag was built with the target of the best US AC at its time. It was never "used" before the voiet union ended. It was sold to China with nothing but a steel shell. The Chinese basically made everything else such as the radar, engine and don't forget thousands of miles of cable. Besides, the sistership to Varyag is the only AC that Russian is using today.
Smart munnitions and railgun technology make ships of this class a target of opportunity. Nothing less.
It also means our flat tops are equally vulnerable the day someone else fields passable equivalents.
We will pursue being limited friends with China, but China will never be true friends to us. Why do we even hope it will be true. Also not to fear China is plain Nuts !!!. They are gaining more & more advanced technology thanks to our own corporate CEOs. They want to build factoriesd in China to maximize their income & give up all of their intellectual property. Ask G.E. All this poperty rights know how has succeeded in selling a bunch of failure prone junk products & poisonous pet foods, our country is overrun with their junk. But they are getting better each day. It was bad when apan turned all of our scrap metal into munitions that killed our troops, it is going to be much sadder if we end up fighting a country that has become an equal in producing military equipment with our own massive intellectual property over 3 times as many fighting men. Remember the human wave tactics they used in Korea then being a technology deficient regime. With equal technology we are giving to them every day it could be Armageddon !
The USA has 12 aircraft carriers, most European nations including Britain have one – the USA's population is 300 million plus, Britain's is 60 million. China's population is 1.3 billion yet Western critics express concern over China's motivation in wishing to defend themselves – western powers have absolutely no moral, military or political basis to make judgements about China's motivations. The U.S. supplies Taiwan with fighter jets and conducts joint naval exercises in the South China Sea – this seems acceptable but strangely never makes the news in the west – if I remember when the Soviets sent merchant ships (not naval vessels) to Cuba they were met with the wrath of the USA in 1962. China should be congratulated on its military restraint than be accused of aggression.
The US at present has 11 carriers that sail every ocean on the planet. As I stated in my post for this article, people in the US (excluding myself) who are uninformed, misinformed, incapable of independent thought, delusional, not well read, etc., etc., etc. will always have a braindamaged paranoid way of thinking. They don't seem to understand or want to understand actual real world situations and will always be pliable. There is little chance of trying to reason with them or of trying to have an intelligent, levelheaded exchange of opinions with those types. (Some of the comments on this website are on the same intelligence level that infest the comment sections of YouTube).
i don't really understand why everybody is so nervous about China having an aircraft carrier or two, as if having these carriers will be a threat to the rest of the world, the way the US and Japanese governments see it.
The US has more than 10 carriers scattered all over the world, and yet nobody ever said anything, inspite of the fact that it has used its military power to bully the rest of the world in the pretense of policing the world in the name of "democracy". Japan used its carriers to challenge the US during the WW2.
You seriously need a history lesson.
Japan used its military to build an Empire, and if that meant stomping China, (trying to stomp Russia and failing), then Britain, then the US, Britain and Netherlands…
@TheUNSucks
Sharp vision and wise choice. China is the strongest country in the world just right behind the US. India is worthless to mention because they are far behind and lagging in almost every aspects in terms of technology, economy and intelligence. Needless to say, they are spending their whole sum of money in military expenditures. Their people standard of living is miserable, suffering diseases, high unemployment rate, no proper transportation, not enough facilities, no equality to sex and etc.
Selling old aircraft carrier to China is not a bad idea at all. The advantages are: 1. you get money real cash. 2. You know every single inch of the carrier sold, so you don't have to spend money spying the capability of Chinese carrier. 3. You make money from selling parts and maintenance service from China. 4. Lastly. If you don't sell to them, they will build themself anyway, you know Chinese are capable of creating some new and cheap and yet compatible products compare to US more expensive products.
take it from a solder of war…..YOU BETTER BE gearing up for the end….o its comming.. all you dumbass people of the world zoned out in your i-pod-pad,ex,ex…only advice i have for u late in this stage…dig, dig now,also a 1000 rounds per weapon in household…food,water….fire…..see ya in hell
Nostradamus predicted the next antichrist due about now will be Chinese.
I'm not saying there's huge interest, just that it's not unlikely. Given time and trade links there will be no point to remaining independent. The advantages will be too significant to ignore. Let say in another 20-50 years time.