Home » Weapons » Arms Trade » China’s Aircraft Carrier Powering Up

China’s Aircraft Carrier Powering Up

by John Reed on July 29, 2011

Well, this is certainly noteworthy. These images clearly show the lights on aboard China’s first aircraft carrier, the Shi Lang (ex Soviet Varyag). Remember a few months ago when we saw pictures of exhaust coming from the ship’s stack? How about when those weapons started appearing on board? Then we saw how scaffolding and other construction gear were being removed from the ship. This is just one more sign of how close the refurbished ship is to putting to sea. (Many estimates have put its maiden voyage as happening sometime this year.)

Also note how the mid-ship jet blast deflector is in the up position in these photos.

Via China Defense Blog.

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{ 103 comments… read them below or add one }

Mary Lilly Mooney July 29, 2011 at 12:59 pm

CHINA needs to BUY NEW SHIPS FROM US….THE U.S.A Instead of old junk from the soviets!!!!

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PMI July 30, 2011 at 11:51 am

That's not an option.

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nick lioy August 24, 2011 at 5:46 am

why did you even comment?..you dont have a clue do you

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blight August 24, 2011 at 9:21 am

People are trapped in the idea that "jobs are important", and that we should sell our tech lead for very short term gains.

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Bryant Caylor July 29, 2011 at 1:10 pm

@ mary the soviets have steller stuff if they had the technology to better it it would be the bomb

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Matt M July 29, 2011 at 1:16 pm

Fuck no. China must be stopped.

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CSZ July 29, 2011 at 1:46 pm

Of course, and there's no suspense. China's only carrier is ex-soviet junk and still not fully operational. On the other hand US has 11 carrier attack groups. Just run a blockade and send down some Jedi for a force negotiation. In the meantime, drop our robot troops and p**&@^%#$

…oh wait.

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john July 30, 2011 at 6:15 pm

Tell me exactly what is the name of some of the country that China has invaded and killing the innocent populations. USA last time I checked was at war with half of the middle east country and trying to start another with Pakistan. China step in and said enough you attack Pakistan and we'll consider it an attack on us. LMAO!! The bully is not getting his way so he's not too happy. I'm sorry but USA is the " EVIL EMPIRE ".

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Prodozul July 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm

Tibet

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saberhagen July 31, 2011 at 11:43 pm

First, China has thousands years of history and the number wars it waged are much more than you can count. Second, in the modern history, China invaded or tried to invade Tibet, Vietnam. It also used force to claim a large chunk of South China Sea that didnt belong to it. So next time, educate yourself first.

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Some Guy August 1, 2011 at 9:43 am

Also CHina is a brutal dictatorship that crushes dissent. Tienamen Square anyone? They havent changed, they just got better at surpressing it or the gov't owned media just willingly ignores it because we are indebted to them

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Jay August 1, 2011 at 10:48 am

The Chinese and PLA will tell you their goal is to conquer other countries – namely Taiwan, and whatever they can gobble up in the S China Sea, which they see as exclusively theirs.
They even fought the Soviets for a little while. They are historically quite belligerent, and if you count their internal bloodlettings and "cultural revolutions" then they have killed hundreds of times more people than the US has.

The US is a pretty crappy "empire" – we invade someone, spend billions of dollars, lose thousands of soldiers…And then we LEAVE, and we send them foreign aid, train their army, and buy their oil. Anyone from one of the classic empires of the 19th century would think we are totally nuts for not staying put and stealing the oil and double nuts for teaching the locals how to fight.

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jwj August 26, 2011 at 12:19 am

why? china's militray isn't a threat to the usa, china is just getting their frist air craft carrier, this is a great event, china's tech is rather low even in today's world, many countries have air craft carriers but no one has more than two other than the UK and the usa, the UK has 4 and the USA has 11 and 2 still being made, you also have to remember that air craft carrier won't really be able to do much since its about 3/5s the size of a usa one and china is still training crew and fixing the ship it may be ready by around 2020 or later to be a real defense but till then it is sadly lacking in power and defense,

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Orion July 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm

Damn.. We (westerners mostly US) are playing Chess, China is playing Go… Interesting times

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STemplar July 29, 2011 at 2:32 pm

Sounds like a good opportunity to have a VA class pay it a visit on its maiden voyage and 'wave' hello……

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Praetorian July 29, 2011 at 7:41 pm

Or Seawolf class

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josh July 29, 2011 at 2:40 pm

I don’t see what the big deal is about china having a p.o.s of a ship, yeah the building of military equipment of communists should be monitored but we shouldn’t freak out, we build ships, tanks, planes, guns etc everyday.

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John Moore July 29, 2011 at 4:11 pm

How about the fact its all aimed at taiwan and we have an obligaiton to protect Taiwan that is if our world is still to be believed once it happens,

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Praetorian July 29, 2011 at 7:48 pm

Lets not forget all the amphibious ships they are building, and their new found intrest in MRAP's, and American denial weapons ( DF-21D, which does not exist yet ). Id say the invasion of Taiwan is inevitable.

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Chris Olden July 30, 2011 at 4:46 am

An invasion of Taiwan is not inevitable. The Chinese have offered semi-autonomy á la Hong Kong ("two systems, one nation") to Taiwan.

The Taiwanese have themselves shown political interest in re-uniting, leading political parties and politicians have advocated talks.

There's even growing interest in China for Taiwanese culture and Traditional Chinese [language]. Never mind the huge amount of trade and cross-investment!

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STemplar July 31, 2011 at 6:17 am

I'm not sure 95%ish voting in the 2008 referendum for independence qualifies as showing political interest in reunification. The Taiwanese government is playing the US and China off each other to hold out for the best deal, those referendum numbers pretty clearly show the average Taiwanese has no interest in being part of China.

john July 30, 2011 at 6:07 pm

USA protecting Taiwan is like China protecting Hawaii if General Robert E. Lee were to moved there and set up a military style dictatorship after the civil war is over. Cheng Kai Cheick lost the civil war to Mao Tse Tung, Taiwan is China territory and its a renegade state they have every right to take it, USA should mind their own business.

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Prodozul July 30, 2011 at 8:38 pm

Robert E Lee died in 1870 28 years before the overthrow of the Queen. If you're asuming Taiwan has some sort of Dictatorship run government I have never heard of such a thing.

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blight August 1, 2011 at 1:06 pm

Taiwan under KMT was a one party gig for quite some time…

blight July 30, 2011 at 8:34 pm

What obligation? Nixon (R-CA) threw Taiwan under the bus, playing the end-game by dividing China against the Soviets. Maybe he appeased China by burning South Vietnam at Paris.

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Shinningarmor1 July 30, 2011 at 8:41 pm

and their parts are made in China.

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Cha August 10, 2011 at 6:22 am

"We build ships, tanks, planes guns,etc,etc" with borrowed money from places like China the great. And sometimes I wonder who the "we" really are, if not the big corporations with all the resultant effect on the majority of docile / gullible Americans.

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Hamid July 29, 2011 at 2:45 pm

this is important for CHina, especially wen it will come to beating the shit out of USA n India. N it's evn better dat they r buying the ships from russia instead of USA.

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STemplar July 29, 2011 at 2:51 pm

Troll

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Forrest Cantrell July 29, 2011 at 2:49 pm

Time to get used to it: unless China's economy implodes, they will be fielding a powerful blue-water navy, complete with much more modern carriers than the Shi Lang, by the middle of the century. And the U.S.'s most capable warships will be submarines fully capable of handling any Chinese naval threat. And if no one loses their heads, we can still both safely co-exist.

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Chris Olden July 30, 2011 at 4:41 am

The Chinese have already turned their sights inward, their economy is focused on domestic growth and consumption. They're not taking any chances on economic instability outside of China. It's highly likely their economy will function well.

That being said historically China has never been fond of foreign conquests outside of its own neighborhood. They have more than enough to deal with in Tibet, Russia, Korea, Japan and Taiwan.

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saberhagen July 31, 2011 at 11:47 pm

"China has never been fond of foreign conquests outside of its own neighborhood" thats merely because of technological and ideological limits in the past. Neighborhood is a relative term you know. One may say the whole world is neighborhood.

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Chris Olden August 7, 2011 at 12:23 am

I'm talking about actual history and cultural values here.

The Chinese fleet travelled as far as Africa a few centuries ago. They could have invaded and occupied a whole lot of places along their route, but at the time their culture saw no value in such foreign lands.

The whole point of that fleet was to bring glory to the Emperor. After that giant fleet returned they burned the ships, closed the ship building yards and forbid travel for a long time. The British and French forced them to open their ports.

I believe the Chinese will only fight to keep their territory, including disputed islands and such, to ensure their security (see Russia, Japan, India and possibly North Korea), and to secure their access to vital resources such as oil, gas and materials.

It's quite obvious that the latter will likely force them to use force at one point or another. Despite their extensive agreements with African and Latin American resource rich countries, they may have to back up their claims with troops on the ground.

China had the manpower and technology to conquer their neighbours centuries ago. They invented gun powder. Despite that they have been the subject of invasions, not the other way around. Russia has stolen land from them several times. Japan has been repelled countless times. India lost the last conflict.

I find it interesting that you claim they needed another ideology to become outwardly aggressive. The African resource "grab" is certainly one form of aggression motivated by continued economic expansion (capitalist). However it doesn't have an adverse effect on their international relations. If their goal is stable economic growth, how does disrupting international trade serve them?

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Jay August 1, 2011 at 11:01 am

What do you base this on?

Their economy is focused on capital growth, not consumption. They are stuck buying our bonds to keep their currency stable, and even they they are having increasing consumer inflation. Define "function well" for us please.

"They" might not be taking chances with their economy, but China is not a monolith. The PLA has interests as well, one of which is challenging us and expanding their sphere of influence, and grabbing Taiwan if possible.

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blight August 1, 2011 at 1:01 pm

Then it sounds like that PLA hardliners may attempt to wrest control of the country in a different direction from its free-marketeers. The Russians had similar experiences in the post-USSR turmoil.

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Lance July 29, 2011 at 3:31 pm

Don't worry too much there carrier is still NOT active the Indians are beating the Chinese in carrier numbers. they don't even have planes for it yet yes there looking at both Russian and domestic SU-33 but no buys yet.

Let China collapse by itself or have India nuke it.

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TLAM Strike July 30, 2011 at 1:12 am

A Sino-Indian nuclear war would be an interesting form of population control. I wonder how many bombs per day would be necessary to at minimum result in zero population growth in the two most populous countries in the world.

Reminds me of an Ian Douglass book I read once where a US Marine in Siberia muses that the US and Russians kill 10,000 of them a day and China's birthrate still makes up for the losses.

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Hale August 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm

Well China's population only increased by something like 0.5% last year, and is expected to start to fall in the coming decade. India will be the most populous nation in the world soon, probably around 2020.

So yeah, One-Child works. If nothing changes, China will probably get old before they get rich or powerful, just like Japan.

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john July 30, 2011 at 5:57 pm

You must have forgotten the 1962 Sino – Indian war. Indian would never ever fight the Chinese on their own. Please do a little reasearch before opening your foul mouth. LOL!!

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Sanity August 13, 2011 at 12:19 pm

I don't know about this Lance idiot.So fast he wants to nuke
China.He must have a deep hatre for China or something that makes his twisted mind to come to this conclusion.Stupid fool who does not know the consequences of a nuclear war to open his foul mouth to nuke this and that.Must be thinking from his ass.

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timmer July 29, 2011 at 3:53 pm

No big deal they are still decades behing, they still have to figure out how to use it and also they need a few more to even be a threat.

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Chris Olden July 30, 2011 at 4:38 am

If they *just* attack and retake Taiwan it will be a real threat to the US and the whole world. The impact would seriously hurt the US/World economy, the Chinese economy would survive it easily.

The Chinese are not interested in conquering the US, it will do plenty to dominate Asia physically, they already have a huge economic foot everywhere else. It will not take them a decade to "become" a threat.

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Joe America July 29, 2011 at 6:12 pm

Let them build it and feel good about themselves. In a war this ship would be lucky to last all but 5 minutes with all hands lost.

Davy Jones would welcome them.

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Howe July 31, 2011 at 2:30 pm

I agree, but unfortunately, the same is true with US carriers.

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bigRick July 31, 2011 at 8:18 pm

Hey Howe, the same can be said for everything
Nothing is 100% impervious in wartime, there are only degrees of protection, there will be losses of everything in a real shooing war, we will lose tanks, ships, subs and aircraft and perhaps a carrier
AND we will lose lots of soldiers, pilots and sailors AND will will lose
many precious F-22s, B-2 bombers, C-5s, and EVERY land base we have in the Pacific will be wiped off the planet.
So how does that logic change your thinking, should we just give up? Perhaps we should just wave the white flag now?

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jhm August 3, 2011 at 12:36 am

well the us carrier groups are well armed with plenty of experience. china sadly has none and if china loses its carrier, no more while and US will have a dozen more.

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citanon July 29, 2011 at 7:40 pm

Cue Return of the Empire music.

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OMEGATALON July 29, 2011 at 8:18 pm

China will now reverse engineer this aircraft carrier with information from Wikileaks and other internet sources concerning the US Nimitz class carrier to develop their own aircraft carrier and the engineering effort like their J-20 stealth fighter will be funded by US tax-dollars that the US needs to pay for the US Debt we've accumulated; this aircraft carrier is a training tool like the Russian fighter jets that China has bought and matched with world-class massively parallel processing supercomputers as well as an almost unlimited financial funding, China could have a Nimitz or Ford class carrier in 10-15 years (because you still need the skilled manpower to build something this massive).

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blight July 29, 2011 at 8:48 pm

What info do you get on an aircraft carrier from "Wikileaks" and "other internet sources"? Beam, draft, armament. Blueprints? Nope.

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TLAM Strike July 30, 2011 at 1:07 am

You could always buy a copy of "Anatomy of the Ship: The Aircraft Carrier Victorious" from Naval Institute Press. The Blueprints in that whole series are fantastic. I just wish they did more than three submarines.

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WHAT July 30, 2011 at 2:13 am

Paid for (indirectly) by American Taxpayer's Dollars.

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Chris Olden July 30, 2011 at 4:33 am

That's hardly the case. It's paid for by consumers spending from all over the *world*.

China is just one of many creditors the US government pays on a regular basis. I'm assuming you're talking about these tax dollars?

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pem July 31, 2011 at 6:01 pm

Hey guess what everyone?? its not just our tax dollars more money by far comes from anyone who shops at walmart is committing Treason, every company that has any kind of production on chinese soil is committing treason. our companies are so outrageously greedy that they will fund our communist enemies just to make a buck or a trillion. Hey its pathetic that GE is a double agent they produce products for our military but produce them on chinese soil. now you dont think for a second they dont steal the technology on everything that hits their soil, your too stupid to breath or reproduce if you think they dont.Wake up America!!!! and obama is a self proclaimed Domestic Enemy #1 of the Constitution.

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William C. July 30, 2011 at 2:56 am

Now maybe those fools in Congress will stop trying to cut OUR carriers and aircraft for them!

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Hooah July 30, 2011 at 4:15 pm

Now you're the fool! US carriers must be cut now to save money! Cut carriers now, so US won't cut carriers in the future! The cost savings will be used to save for more carriers in the future!

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William C. July 30, 2011 at 11:42 pm

We've done this over the last two decades and are down to 11 carriers. If we cut any more those lying politicians aren't going to give us them back in the future because that is the way they operate. They'd cut today, promise to give us better carriers tomorrow, and never deliver on that promise.

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John July 30, 2011 at 5:53 pm

The USA have 10 Aircraft Carrier and China is tryin to put a Carrier built 20years ago into service and USA is crying foul. WOW!! what a double standards society America lives in. Please tell me how many country have the great USA is invading the last five years?

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Prodozul July 30, 2011 at 5:55 pm

Nobody is crying foul buddy.

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STemplar July 31, 2011 at 2:03 pm

Troll, set phasers to ban.

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jhm August 3, 2011 at 12:39 am

China has two more planned and have already chosen a build site… the problem is that while the chinese only have to operate in teh asian theater mostly, teh US has to operate world wide, with our "great and loyal allies' making fun of us and pointing fingers at our military while downscaling theirs, go figure, but your rt, 1 carrier whoopee. plus, hehe with our ssns and plethora of harpoon carrying grimreapers, good luck in an unlikely war

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chief789 July 30, 2011 at 11:47 am

hey, lets not forget that when we fought in viet nam, we fought the chinese as well, also, we fought the chinese in korea as well. do we really want to help supply the chinese with our weapons, so they might use them against us if we might have to fight n. korea again. think about this

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justsaying July 30, 2011 at 2:55 pm

We? Your silly relatives might have put their lives on the line. Mine sure as hell didn't.

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john July 30, 2011 at 5:46 pm

Not Vietnam but yes Korea. The USA lost both wars.

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Praetorian July 30, 2011 at 8:08 pm

Umm yes Vietnam, Russia was not the only supplier of military hardware. And
the Korean war ? Look at the North and the South now, and you can honstly say that the U.S. lost ?

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CSZ August 1, 2011 at 9:14 am

WRT Korean war,

US – won,
China – won,
Korea – lost and suffering till this day

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WizBe August 1, 2011 at 4:43 am

Don't forget the biggest war the Chinese and US ever fought together was the SECOND WORLD WAR against the Japanese. As for Viet and Kor, let's say if China invades Mexico and Canada, would US keep quiet? Tell us Chinese what we should have been doing during K and V war instead of fighting back.

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aSDF July 30, 2011 at 3:26 pm

another country can't have carriers? what idiots you are, deal with it. amerika is not the center of the universe.

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John July 30, 2011 at 5:48 pm

Right on !! America are so double standards, they don'r realize that its them the evil the empire. LMAO!!

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321 July 30, 2011 at 11:59 pm

I figure most of American's problems are mostly caused from them Policy's.
I don't really care I'm in Canada.
you want to take on china I don't know how much of the rest of the world will help on that one.
Your Military is still the best in world.
As long as China doesn't attack we are just fine. Their Allies remember.

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T Reece August 1, 2011 at 8:46 am

If the shooting starts your snively whinny butt will be in America thanking God our military is in front of you.

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jhm August 3, 2011 at 12:40 am

oh, so china is, zhongou even means it…. but hey, how else does the universe run? jk

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lamar July 30, 2011 at 7:11 pm

you people who say whats the big deal will be crying when there is a war with china and you loose your life or the life of a loved one, due to a war with china….wake up our country is in a bad state, with a gov with their head up their as

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Tuskeegee July 31, 2011 at 10:44 pm

Don't worry my fellow RepubliKKKlan brownshirt, your President Barack HUSSEIN Obama has finally acquiesced with the RepubliKKKan Party's demands during the debt ceiling negotiations. Your bankrupt country can now buy an extra carrier to defeat China's new low-tech aircraft carrier. LOL

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STemplar July 31, 2011 at 2:08 pm

I think China needs to be deterred, but the threat represented by one crummy 20+ year old carrier is just a wee bit overblown. We always analyze this fictional as of yet US v China conflict as a one on one scenario. The fact is any likely conflict is going to draw in more than one nation. It's prudent to plan to go it alone, hope for the best plan for the worse, but the reality is that is really unlikely. The majority of the conflict scenarios involve some kind of regional dispute escalating and that implies nation(s) aside the US involved. So from China's perspective, they probably have to plan of facing multiple nations at once if they're smart.

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ogopogo July 31, 2011 at 2:31 pm

The US shouldn't be concerned about China about to enter into service its first carrier. It will only be used for engineering research and training so don't wet your pants and skirts. Just try and think about the Chinese perspective. They have been invaded numerous times from the sea and have suffered MILLIONS of deaths as a result. Upgrading their naval capability to protect their coastline, offshore islands and merchant fleet is their priority, not trying to be a world policeman or toughguy bully that's only brave as part of a coalition (AKA lapdog follower). So anyone with any sense of reason would not be alarmed by this development.

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bigRick July 31, 2011 at 7:26 pm

Well, the Chinese stuff can't be that bad, the new SF/Oakland bay bridge is "made in China" :=
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global

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TheUNSucks August 1, 2011 at 9:00 am

I'd rather be allies with the Chinese than the Indians. They're way to close of a friend to Russia. Last time I checked, they lost to china during the Sino-Indian war. China's technology is getting better and they will have their j-20 operation by 2015. I can tell. They're hiring the intellects in America who are looking for jobs. We're also in some serious debt to China as well. Better to be friends as opposed to enemies. We can't keep it up.

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Sandra Hunter August 1, 2011 at 9:24 pm

First USED JUNK AIRCRAFT CARRIER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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WizBe August 2, 2011 at 8:01 am

Some facts might help you. The Varyag was built with the target of the best US AC at its time. It was never "used" before the voiet union ended. It was sold to China with nothing but a steel shell. The Chinese basically made everything else such as the radar, engine and don't forget thousands of miles of cable. Besides, the sistership to Varyag is the only AC that Russian is using today.

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Flyinghawk August 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm

Smart munnitions and railgun technology make ships of this class a target of opportunity. Nothing less.

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blight August 2, 2011 at 6:44 pm

It also means our flat tops are equally vulnerable the day someone else fields passable equivalents.

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Colin EDwards August 3, 2011 at 6:52 am

The USA has 12 aircraft carriers, most European nations including Britain have one – the USA's population is 300 million plus, Britain's is 60 million. China's population is 1.3 billion yet Western critics express concern over China's motivation in wishing to defend themselves – western powers have absolutely no moral, military or political basis to make judgements about China's motivations. The U.S. supplies Taiwan with fighter jets and conducts joint naval exercises in the South China Sea – this seems acceptable but strangely never makes the news in the west – if I remember when the Soviets sent merchant ships (not naval vessels) to Cuba they were met with the wrath of the USA in 1962. China should be congratulated on its military restraint than be accused of aggression.

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ogopogo August 3, 2011 at 5:51 pm

The US at present has 11 carriers that sail every ocean on the planet. As I stated in my post for this article, people in the US (excluding myself) who are uninformed, misinformed, incapable of independent thought, delusional, not well read, etc., etc., etc. will always have a braindamaged paranoid way of thinking. They don't seem to understand or want to understand actual real world situations and will always be pliable. There is little chance of trying to reason with them or of trying to have an intelligent, levelheaded exchange of opinions with those types. (Some of the comments on this website are on the same intelligence level that infest the comment sections of YouTube).

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Niko August 10, 2011 at 8:23 am

@TheUNSucks

Sharp vision and wise choice. China is the strongest country in the world just right behind the US. India is worthless to mention because they are far behind and lagging in almost every aspects in terms of technology, economy and intelligence. Needless to say, they are spending their whole sum of money in military expenditures. Their people standard of living is miserable, suffering diseases, high unemployment rate, no proper transportation, not enough facilities, no equality to sex and etc.

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xmilnav April 9, 2012 at 7:07 pm

take it from a solder of war…..YOU BETTER BE gearing up for the end….o its comming.. all you dumbass people of the world zoned out in your i-pod-pad,ex,ex…only advice i have for u late in this stage…dig, dig now,also a 1000 rounds per weapon in household…food,water….fire…..see ya in hell

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kenneth Wade Wilson May 1, 2012 at 12:11 pm

Nostradamus predicted the next antichrist due about now will be Chinese.

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CSZ July 29, 2011 at 2:01 pm

Give it a break, Jerry. If you grown up during cold war you should be mature enough to know that it has always been about global domination than anything else. Ideology is just a pretext. Refer to any wars waged in the past 2,000 years in the name of some divine being or belief systems.

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CSZ July 29, 2011 at 2:03 pm

Oh and during the 80s US proposed to sell F-16-J79 to China, and then F-15 ASSEMBLY LINE for licensed production, and finally deal went through for several black hawks, to counter the threat of Soviet Union.

Treason? No, just our interests.

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justsaying July 29, 2011 at 2:07 pm

I do understand the ramifications. Whenever the word "communist" or "communism" is mentioned, the older generation has a heart attack. True communism is the purest form of democracy.

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Chris Olden July 30, 2011 at 4:27 am

It would be short sighted to sell weapons to China as they are already a threat to the Western hegemony and our political influence in Asia. China's getting ready to take its share of the burden and glory.

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Don Reba July 30, 2011 at 8:24 am

You don't understand the ramifications, you are just more brainwashed. It was hard to avoid in those days on either side.

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Bill August 1, 2011 at 10:07 am

How is that different than letting them have our computer technology to build all of our computers. So that they now have the technololgy to design space projects.
Design better ballistic rockets, sell those computers to North Korea so that they
can build nuclear weapons and better rockets to sell to Iran.

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Ben July 29, 2011 at 2:31 pm

True communism will never exist, so stop defending it.

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CSZ August 1, 2011 at 10:09 am

Communism does not work in the current state of human civilization, just like capitalism and democracy does not work during stone ages.

The ideology of communism is not evil, the execution has been questionable in the 20th century. So what, the first 100 years of capitalism is not exactly pretty and classical democracy fall into imperialism "with thundering applause".

For better or worse, we humans are exploring better social and economical systems throughout history.

Before you hate, try to first understand, or you are just showing your ignorance.

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aSDF July 31, 2011 at 9:50 am

haha :D
warmongering at its best in this thread.

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bigRick July 31, 2011 at 7:23 pm

anyone that's calls someone a "Tea Bagger" is actually a "douch bagger" himself

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WizBe August 1, 2011 at 4:40 am

Armistice it is but only after a 1000 mile retreat of the US.

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bigRick August 1, 2011 at 1:09 pm

that's a good point Jay, history has shown us over and over again that when there
are "excessive" numbers of men (to women) in a given country, then that country
uses it's men in war

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Mujtaba August 2, 2011 at 10:17 am

Hahaha Soon US will be selling her Air Crafts carriers to China in order to pay interests on the US Treasury Bonds that China have!

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Linnie August 2, 2011 at 7:31 pm

Neither will true democracy, fool.

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Chris Olden August 7, 2011 at 12:25 am

I'm not saying there's huge interest, just that it's not unlikely. Given time and trade links there will be no point to remaining independent. The advantages will be too significant to ignore. Let say in another 20-50 years time.

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orly? August 24, 2011 at 9:04 am

You seriously need a history lesson.

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blight August 24, 2011 at 9:20 am

Japan used its military to build an Empire, and if that meant stomping China, (trying to stomp Russia and failing), then Britain, then the US, Britain and Netherlands…

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