So, the F-35 Join Strike Fighter got a major shot in the arm last night when Japan chose the JSF to its next fighter jet.
Tokyo decided to buy four F-35A conventional model JSFs next year to kick start its effort to replace two squadrons of ancient F-4 Phantoms. Last night’s news validates reports that emerged last week claiming the JSF was guaranteed a win in the Japan’s F-X fighter contest that pitted the Lockheed Martin-made jet against Boeing’s cheaper F/A-18E Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon (the Eurofighter probably never had much of a shot given Japan’ super close ties to the U.S. military).
As we’ve said before, it makes a lot of sense for Japan to buy the F-35. The island nation has long wanted a stealth jet to modernize its air force with. After the U.S. denied Japan access to the F-22 Raptor, Tokyo looked at America’s export friendly stealth jet and obviously liked what it saw. As we’ve said before, Japan is increasingly concerned about the rapid growth of China’s military and buying the F-35 gives Japan the same fighter that will serve as the backbone of it’s biggest ally’s (the U.S.) 21st Century tacair fleet. One big question is, how quickly will the Japanese Ar Self Defense Force be equipped with combat-ready JSFs?
Japan’s F-4s are supposed to be retired very soon and those four F-35As will likely be training jets. The Pentagon has already pushed back its initial operational capability dates for the JSF to the end of this decade, and those dates may be pushed further back still. Will Japan continue t fly F-4s and aging F-15 Eagles until the 2020s? Check out sister site DoDBuzz for answers to these questions later today.
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arigatou gozamaista!
Well I guess a few billion yen will help the program- they just have to make sure it can actually do what its supposed to.
It still rubs me the wrong way that it takes a whole 10 years after the damn plane is up and flying before it's combat ready. If it's the technology and coding that we're waiting on, maybe we went a little too far.
Cutting edge fighters only have bite if you can use them now while they're still cutting edge.
It was only a prototype, the hardest part is building an assembly line to make thousands. the process to make 1 or 5 or 10 is is much different than the process to make thousands.
Remember they are concurrently developing and building them. So the begining combat planes will need some (however much) rework once development is complete for the first block.
Jack of all trades masters of none
F-35
LCS
Really? And how do you know that?
The F-35s' avionic suite alone is a generation or more ahead of anything out there, not to mention the stealth capability and the weapon packages that are being developed specifically for them.
The LCSs may be seen as a light weight, but putting them in littoral area -let's say in Singapore, the Philippines and basically southern part of the South China Sea- would make them a formidable force against… you know who.
The LCS? Formidable without the missile system they anticipated for it?
We learned from Operation Praying Mantis that there is a lower limit to the effectiveness of a small platform. Even a FFG-sized platform is no longer effective in naval combat (or at least, our Perrys are pretty useless without the bow missile launcher).
The LCS is fast and shallow draft. It is probably also larger than it needs to be for the *Littoral Combat* mission. The need for a fast boat with long range doomed the design, and we have yet to hear if the modules work. It would be stupid to fix the boat and have non-working modules, necessitating scrapping the boats and restarting the design process.
Add F/A18 to that list.
I'm wondering if this will go as planned or turn into another Australia case: They plan on getting the F-35, then unpredicted delays and cost increases make them buy the Super Hornet.
I doubt it. The F-35 now is much further down the road to completion than when Australia decided to go with the F-18E/F.
It's also a lot more expensive and problimatic than when Australia decided to go with the F/A-18E/F.
A clear vote of confidence for the F35 programme. It could reassure a few wobbly potential customers and possibly create a little wider interest.
For the positive signal it sends out, I wonder how much the US would be prepared to pay -through a DoS or USAID financial package- to win such a deal.
Buying a Problem Plane is not that inviting to boost up general interest of allies…. All the negatieve signals lately have more impact than this intended buy from Japan. The F35 would serve it's own selling potential a whole lot better if the rocketing pricetag and unforeseen technical problems are put on direct hold! Otherwise the unavailability of this plane becomes a usp for the proven and available alternatives as Super Hornet and even the Typhoon!
A more relevant question is if they are expecting any of the manufacturing work to be done in country – and if so, what.
This will probably keep the F-35 from cancellation!!!
This will probably make the F-35 program immune from
any further Congressional attacks as well.
The F-35 will be the next generation manned fighter for NATO
and our allies to replace the F-16.
With all the delays and cost overruns. It should learn something that has been taught over and over again. Never judge anything by looks alone. I'm wondering if Boeing would have had the same issues.
Or it could be that the Japanese judged the F-35 by… looks alone -considering how much negative press it was getting? I think not. There maybe something that neither you or I and the rest of us know about the F-35 yet.
Yes Boeing would have many of the same and many different problems. Remember the Boeing model could not go super sonic and land vertically in the same flight mission. What kind of problems would they have develping a variable inlet? As for another aspect of development the level of maturity of end design that they thought they could get from advanced design techniques has shown to still be in the "art" stage versus application stage. In other words the aircraft maker could do it.
Could NOT do it. Sorry for error.
@ DoD Buzz Japan will Fly some F-15s beyond 2020. upto at least 50 F-15Js will be upgraded to F-15J Kai and will be a new plane and fly for at least a few more decade's. I don't know why you have a bone against the Eagle its better than the junk China fly's.
I think it's on par with the SU-27, SU-33, J-10, and J-11 the Chinese have. Somehow it didn't post as a reply before.
The Japanese probably wanted a deal insulating them from cost-overruns, and guaranteeing them a fixed price on delivery, in exchange for a guaranteed order from Lockmart, even if the United States killed its buy.
I think its on par with the SU-27, J-10, J-11, and the SU-33s the Chinese have.
…magazine and it'll be all over
If you let a suspicious rubber dingy with AK-47 within a 1000 yards of the ship, then you deserve to lose the ship anyway. By the time we managed to field enough number of LCS as a "formidable" force, the weapon system will be available as well (hopefully). Right now, there are just 2 with 2 more on the way.
I guarantee the Eurofighter delivers better than the JSF in 2025. The jsf will go down as the worst military procurement project after the f22.
All talk and no trousers , Lockheed couldn’t organize a piss up in a brewery !
Ahahaha, you mean the Eurofighter that still doesn't have an AESA radar a decade after it entered service. The same Eurofighter that has a patheticly limited A-G ability ands zero stealth factor.
Better off with F-15's than the £179 million quid a plane Eurofrauder.
A mediocre radar and no stealth means death by BVR
It will also have trouble penetrating airspace covered by the newest Russian SAM's.
If stealth wasn't important (according to the Europeans) why are the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Japanese and S Koreans developing it?
The Typhoon is great for airshows and attacking places like Libya- but lets face it- its the equivalent of a preDreadnaught or a Matilda tank- obsolete before its time.
the f-35 will also have problems getting into (or out) heavily defended areas. remember that has EXPORT stealth. you can also fit a NGJ or five of them to an EF.
the f-22 wasn't built for nothing you know, if the f-35 is a do-it-all type of AC. the same goes for its export prohibition (f.22).
for a good reason.
so f-35 will probably be somewhat better then the EF when clean, but not by a lot imo.
"Export stealth" was one of Bill Sweetmans (many) lies about the F-35 program. There is no such thing.
The Typhoon will have AESA years before the F35 finishes development, let alone enters service.
As for Stealth, its a concept that few really seem to understand. Every 5th generation fighter plane out there incorporates 'stealth' of some kind, as 'stealth' really just means 'signature reduction technologies'. For the most part that will be shaping in the design of the airframe, but it can also incorporate RAM in specific places.
What you've got to be careful of is this 'oooh shiny!' mentality that seems to trail the F35 programme about like so much drool. Heavy airframe shaping and RAM coatings are all well and good, but airframe shaping is proving less useful against modern radar designs, and RAM is bloody expensive to look after (particularly coatings).
Threats are also constantly evolving, requiring periodic updates in your low-signature tech or suffer a reduction in your 'stealth' (particularly now the east has that US drone to play with).
In short – the F35 aint all that.
I still think the Typhoon was the best bet for Japan, as it is for India. The F35 may well start to deliver on its promise in another decade, and maybe 2025 Japan will start to get some fighters out of the programme.
But the Typhoon ticks all the boxes for what Japan needs 'right now'. They could be building them in 2013, have them operational by 2015 as their existing fighters are phased out. The Typhoon is a robust twin-engine design with proven combat experience, and with lots of industry integration options for the Japanese to build on in preparation for their domestic fighter programme (the US is notoriously neurotic about sharing its tech, despite how much it looses to Chinese hackers, while the euros would be more then happy to pimp out their industry).
LOL! Is this the same AESA that has been, according to the Typhoon fanatics, "almost ready" for the last 10 years. ;)
Nice excuses for the lack of typhoons stealth qualities and I do like the way you fail to mention that because of that inferior quality it is likely to be spotted and shot down at ranges far far beyond which could threaten the F-35.
The bottom line is that Typhoon is an equivilent to a Tenn series fighter with very slightly better kinematics, in short it ain't all that by todays standards. I should know I work around the thing for a living and get to hear all the detail. ( they get owned by Tenn fighters often enough in excerises btw dispite what the marketing guff from Euro fighter might tell you.)
Why do you think the Uk government is getting F-35's.
Ahh yes, someone talking about European procurement of arms. How's that A400M working out for you?
And the fat lady did sing on this argument. Forget European arms procurement, let's talk about the availability of munitions for those systems. I remember reading about how the French ran out of bombs for their planes in Libya, and wasn't there something about how a British Frigate only had FOUR missiles when it left port?
Meanwhile we send one submarine that fires most of the cruise missiles used in the opening wave. The tomahawk, its a good thing!
Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner!!
Given it didn't have to fire any of them, the Treasury is probably arguing that was four missiles too many.
Im still concerned with the F-35 and its delivery date, but if it works for Japan good for them and future defense against the RED MENACE will be of great use.
Should the Red menace exacerbate it's defense programs, & become an aggressive irritant in becoming combative in it's quest to rule the world, it will have to deal with the millions of it's own people that would be willing to take arms up against it's own government. We cannot allow the Red ness of it's propaganda influence to be turned against the democratic tide of this nation's prosperity. They were our Ally in WWII, & only turned to the Red Side of Communistic forces when denied the opportunity to have the right to take part in taking revenge on it's then much more aggressive neighbor.
Fault, or thank, the Good General & even greater Republican advocate, Douglas S MacArthur for being the one responsible for this active participation of inviting the leaders of our own steel, & manufacturing, industries, to Japan in the guise of hiring cheap labor, even cheaper than we could manufacture the same products, thus selling out our nation, & it's labor force, as well as our troops stationed throughout the world that carry the burden of defending our rights, freedoms, & liberties, that we still have in today's world of "globalization". It is for the same reasons that we have a North, & South Korea.
"They were our Ally in WWII, & only turned to the Red Side of Communistic forces when denied the opportunity to have the right to take part in taking revenge on it's then much more aggressive neighbor. "
They "turned to the Red Side" because the KMT lost the countryside. The communists didn't lose as much strength against the IJA as the communists did, and the KMT spent a great deal of time hunting down the communists while simultaneously fighting Japan.
Once the war ended, the PLA sprung its trap and turned on the warlords, who began bolting to save their own hides. From there, entire KMT units were defeated or defected, and once your own army begins to defect you have serious problems.
"It is for the same reasons that we have a North, & South Korea."
We have a North and South Korea because Japan occupied Korea in the early 1900's; and when the Soviets attacked Japan they got about halfway through Korea before being stopped by a treaty line.
I just read Japan is buying F35 at 115mil per plane. Is LM raping the US taxpayer or what, or is the US taxpayer subsiding our cheap ass rich allies, so they buy this plane instead of the EU, or has LM and its army of lobbyists used it power to screw Boeing and the taxpayer?
Or all of the above?
Yet the European option, the Eurofighter costs more. That is why they didn't pick it, and the fact that its already outdated with its totally unstealthy airframe and 80's era electronics and avioncs.
I can't see how we can make sweeping statements about the F-35 program. The worlds third largest economy is buying FOUR. Not four squadrons. To replace F-4s, from which pretty much anything would be an improvement.
Four next year- to start the program off- they plan on 42 in total.
Yes- they are replacing F4's- and the Marines are replacing old Harriers and the Europeans 30 year old F16's-
Not to mention that the Israelis want the B models too.
STARTING with 4. If they don't get what they think they bargained for, who is to say it will go to 42? This program has been full of promises of orders that dried up or were severly cut later on.
if they'll be delivered on time…… doubt that
still japan is mainly concern with air defense rather than striking options so they'll want a true air dominance fighter to replace their F15 in the future…..
The reason why the japanese government buy F-35 is because it please the US and somewhat compensate their incapacity to solve the relocation of the Futenma base in Okinawa. As many experts pointed out before, because the japanese constitution constrain the SDF's rules of engagement and military doctrine to a defensive posture, Japan need an interceptor not a stealth bomber.
The Japanese buy US military equipment for various reasons- it helps ease the pain of the US-Japanese trade embargo, US troops are in Japan- no French or Brits, and US stuff is good- it also helps to have compatible gear to the US – we would inevitably fight together.
Excuse me, but what do you mean with "US-Japanese trade embargo"?
No matter how good a plane is in a role of stealth bomber, still it its inferior to a dedicated interceptor.
And if we are bound to fight together why the US dont' sell to us F-22? "We fight togeter" or is more like "the US do the real job with the really good weapons"?
No they need a Multi-role fighter and not an interceptor. The F-35 is that aircraft. If they had gotten the F-22, then they would have received an Air superiority fighter. Currently I think only the Mig-25 Foxbat and possibly the Mig-31 Foxhound are classified as interceptors. Remember that an interceptor has great speed but usually doesn't have the best maneuverability, so its best used against large formations of bombers.
First, I am japanese, my life, my family and friends may depend of this things. So think that I am very well aware of what we need.
Second, Japan is chain of islands whit a pacifist constitution. Intercept large formations of chinese bombers over the sea is more important than have a plane that can penetrate the air defense of other coutnry for drop precision weapons like the F-35 do.
Third, if we Japanese are attacked by the chinese air force, then we are going to need a plane that can carry a lot of missiles for deal with being outnumbered, the F-35 carry so few weapons that even if it survive and make it back it is not going to stop enough chinese planes from reach their targets.
Not to mention that it CANNOT carry domestic made Mitsubishi AAM-4, XASM-3 due to be in operation in 2016 since it doesn't fit in their mission bay.
Really not only are we forced to buy a paper plane that can't make delivery schedule but also forced to buy some pie-in-the-sky weapons to boot.
Really can't understand the logic behind this decision.
The F-35 is a very capable aircraft as it has capabilities that previous generation fighter jets were only able to do with external pods; Lockheed should consider selling a F-35 minus all of the advanced avionics and sensor capabilities to lower cost like a strip-down car so the buyer can decide on what options to get or go for all options plan.
Considering the last F22 has come off the LM production line, which now will close down the Marietta Ga plant, effectively, except for C130 continueing production, and the Dallas Fort Worht production facilities for F35 continue to be built, this Japan buy will help immensely, to keep the Engineering staff on site.
bt
Keeping Engineering staffers on past the EMD phase is always critical to further aircraft builds.
Noted the LM folks are now into the Unmanned Helo business, A new endeavor.
Semper Fi
While it's great that Japan has finally decided to buy the F-35, it's further proof that the next President of the United States needs to withdraw from every treaty that has the US coming to the aid of some foreign country as why should the US need to buy over 2400 F-35 when Japan thinks they only need 42 and in another report has the total defense budget of NATO countries totaling $200Billion as this compares with the US 2012 Defense budget of over $600Billion; if these countries want to be under the US umbrella of protection, each country in NATO and Asia will need to cough up $75-100Billion.
world politic don't work that way.
if it could be rationalized solely on budget cost then perhaps we should employ just accountants to work in the national defense plan.
Japan works under the mindset of defense of it's own islands, and not much beyond it.
USA like any major power country cannot do so because they lose their influence and presence when their forces projection and capability shrink. USA don't possess powerful pull in the world politic because of their diplomatic eloquence, they possess it because they have the strongest military projection capability of all nations.
Like it or not, if they want to maintain their pull in the politic of the world, they have to maintain that capability… the shape, hardware, and method may change, but the capability cannot go away or so will their ability to influence the opinion of the other nations. And ironically, many other countries need them to remain so because their stability partially depends on it.
"Tenn" should be Teen on both counts in the above post. Sorry.
UK is getting F-35's because the Typhoon isn't carrier capable (although there are those who say the UK should pull out of the troubled F35 programme as it would be cheaper to make the Typhoon carrier-capable then it would to buy the same number of F35's).
Not surprised someone who works around old american jets thinks they're all that, but the idea that they compare to the Typhoon is just so much guff. American pilots who've flown both the F22 and the Typhoon have admitted the latter handles better.
And I never said the Typhoon lacked stealth qualities; it plainly does have them.