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Hezbollah and Hamas Have Gadhafi’s Old SAMs

by John Reed on March 13, 2012

Remember all those Libyan surface to air missiles that went missing during last year’s civil war in Libya? The ones that NATO was desperately trying to track down? Well, some of the shoulder-fired SA-24 Grinch SAMs have made their way into the hands of Hezbollah and they’re pointed at Israel.

The Grinch isn’t some aging Soviet system from the 1970s , nope, it’s Russia’s newest shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile and one of the most advanced MANPADS (man-portable air defense systems) out there. The pic above shows a truck mounted-dual launcher version of the system in Libya.

The missiles were apparently smuggled to Iran where they were then sent to Iran’s proxy force, Hezbollah, in Lebanon and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, reports Aviation Week.

Still, the missiles might prove to be more a a nuiscance than a real threat to military aircraft, notes AvWeek:

Although the weapon is one of the more advanced Manpads on the world market, Western electronic warfare experts appear to have quickly developed operational techniques to defeat it. Even without the most advanced laser-based directed infrared countermeasures systems, British WAH-64 Apache attack helicopters faced a number of SA-24 firings and defeated them.

Notice that doesn’t mention civilian airliners on take-off or landing. The heat-seeking SA-24 has a range of 11,000 feet. A lucky shot with one of them could it the right place on an airliner. No fun.

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{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }

McPosterdoor March 13, 2012 at 11:03 am

Hello,

"lucky shot with one of them could it the right place on an airliner. No fun." You want to 'hit' the right place. Please shoot me an and I'll edit your post before they go out. I'd like to help you!

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Guest March 13, 2012 at 12:41 pm

This might be embarassing…but you missed "email" in your post.
"Please shoot me an ____ and I'll edit your post"

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USSHelm March 13, 2012 at 11:24 am

When and where were SA-24s shot at British choppers?

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mat March 13, 2012 at 3:32 pm

Some one forgot to tell the press RPG is not a manpad even less a SA-24

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Stratege March 14, 2012 at 2:07 am

Indeed. Where?

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Blight March 13, 2012 at 12:04 pm

The Libyans sent ATGMS through space and time to Hezbollah after Gaddafi collapsed.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm

I don't think we gave a damn about these weapons cache's. I think we went in to find, secure and recover the reported $60 – $80 BILLION in GOLD BULLION BARS that Ghadaffi had stashed which was his personal NET WORTH. THE TREASURY of Libya is STILL trying to get their nations' money released from the world bank!!! WTF??? THAT IS THEIR MONEY, yet, it has been taken – Ok, withheld if you prefer! I have no vested interest in their nation, but even I can see the injustice here.

Personally, I still don't think they've found it, and I still think they have tunnel rats in his underground complex which is nothing short of a DUMB…. But – the fact is anyone with knowledge of his cache, is long gone and they've taken enough to live on. Further, they've permanently sealed whatever vault the Colonel had it placed in. That's a lotta GOLD… And let's face it, there would certainly be a temporal affect on the markets if it was found.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm

Ghadaffi had long ago refused to trade oil on dollars, demanding GOLD instead. That's what the war really was about… It pissed off a LOT OF PEOPLE… obviously the WRONG people since we BACKED AND PROTECTED THE MUSLIM BRUDDA HOODS…. GEEZE – HOW FRIGG'N DESPARATE IS THAT??? That's my perspective on it anyway…

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Highly recommend that those of you who marked thumbs down on my post, do some reading up on this… I think you're lacking in perspective and knowledge.

By the way… I find it rather humorous, that some get thumbs up for the obviously assinine remarks made above… at least I made an argument based in facts and a few pretty fair guesses… But hey, that's ok… I didn't see anyone else actually explain why or how ALL or most of those weapons ended up in Gaza… Things that make ya go, hmmmm…..

We ignored the weapons issues mostly… and the biggest portion of them, skooted right across the desert and the Sinai Penn… through their tunnels and onward… Just the way it is… We were busy chasing gold…

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passingby March 13, 2012 at 4:03 pm

they aren't the reading type, or the thinking type. It's safe to say that they are mostly morons

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M.L. March 13, 2012 at 6:39 pm

This is DefenseTech.org. We like to talk about military and technological systems/news.

Your comments are off topic. Nobody's talking about basketball here, there are other places for that. Even after that, you need to polish your delivery.

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passingby March 13, 2012 at 5:38 pm

Exactly. The petro-dollar status is the key to propping up the crumbling evil empire. That's why BRICS and many smaller economies should cooperate to pave the way for the eventual removal of the US dollar from trade settlements.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 6:17 pm

The BRIC nations have already pulled out of the Petro Dollars program. It's really screwing things up. Japan and South Korea are even considering it according to one report I heard!

The biggest problem with this of course, is that it will flood the market with Dollars just as the Dollar is beginning to gain strength. In fact, it is probably already having effect as we speak. This makes a great case for finding that gold, assuming that they haven't.

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passingby March 13, 2012 at 6:43 pm

BRIC nations have openly advocated replacing the USD with other currencies. Because of the large US treasury holdings of China and Japan, it will probably take a few more years before the dollar begins its fatal dive. You'd want to move your assets out of the dollar and into tangible assets like gold and silver. You'd also want to move those assets out of the US to a politically neutral and stable place.

passingby March 13, 2012 at 4:00 pm

Very good.

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Veng March 13, 2012 at 12:16 pm

Fortunately, the national airline of Israel has equipped all its airliners with countermeasures designed to defeat this sort of threat.

Israel, on the ball, as usual.

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Uranium238 March 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Perfect! Now if they can just add fire control radar and a pylon for HARMs and Hellfires to return fire….

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guess March 13, 2012 at 6:29 pm

Actually I swear I read some where years ago that some of the planes are armed. I can’t remember with what though

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 7:01 pm

I recall something along those lines too. It's been several years ago now though. I think around 911 if I recall correctly. Some kind of missle and also chaff…

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Veng March 18, 2012 at 5:57 pm
Lance March 13, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Knew that Libya would be proxy for Al Qaeda and Hezbollah and Hamas. The rebels always supported a Islamist movement and now they are making money selling weapons to them. The Defense news cited Al Qaeda is also buying MANPADS in Libya. Whenever a SA-14 or SA-24 there a threat to everyone in the wrong hands.

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blight_ March 13, 2012 at 4:42 pm

"The missiles were apparently smuggled to Iran where they were then sent to Iran’s proxy force, Hezbollah, in Lebanon and Hamas in the Gaza Strip"

That's some pretty contorted smuggling.

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nary March 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm

And why again did the US not secure these weapons prior to siding with the Muslim B'hood whose grateful followers just desecrated British WWII gravestones a fortnight ago?

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blight_ March 13, 2012 at 4:39 pm

That's kind of silly. It's harder to secure weapons than you think, especially when hamstrung by "let's not send troops to Libya" movements.

When we invaded Iraq in 2003 we had 150k troops to depose Saddam and maintain supply lines in country, not enough to hold every arms depot from being looted down to the copper wiring.

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PMi March 13, 2012 at 7:42 pm

Because it was Europe's show.

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blight_ March 13, 2012 at 11:12 pm

'cause the US could barely agree on sending /anything/, let alone providing logistical support. It was that or hanging the rebels out to dry like we are in Syria.

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tiger March 13, 2012 at 7:44 pm

Back on topic… Manpads in uncontroled hands are a major threat to everybody. The world is filled with pick up trucks to shoot from.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm

@ Passingby – I tried to post a reply, but was unable. Trying this… I guess if I'm banned or whatever, a courtesy post or email would be nice… I don't believe I've been off topic in this thread… anyway, will see if this works.

I agree, but it's different this time. It would be a huge mistake this time. Not the same map! We're getting into something that isn't in our best interests really. I know McCain and Graham are thumping their chests in Congress along with others, but this is a bad war if we do it… maybe even a black flag. 5th fleet could look like Pearl Harbor if we're not careful…

And let's face it; The road to Tehran, if we don't use retipped conventional ICBM's, is through Damascus and it will be littered with bodies. Russia and China have VOWED to back up Syria if we go in. BAD – REAL BAD strategy… NATO is us. In other words, there's no help coming. I don't like this one bit, be it from Obama or a Republican POTUS. Our ICBM's can target a quarter – send them, not our sons.

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TMB March 14, 2012 at 1:02 am

Just a heads up here on defensetech lately posts have been getting eaten or taking a while to show up leading to double postings. The only posts I've seen banned were racist or violations of OPSEC. They also have an odd filtering system where the system admin will automatically delete your post if there's a keyword or something. We're all still trying to crack that nut. Copy your post before you hit submit just in case.

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passingby March 14, 2012 at 2:44 am

your first responses are in the thread now, along with my reply.

It's not going to be ICBMs. The boys are already over there. I'd love to see how those Russian Sunburns work when the war commences. Iran reportedly has hundreds of them or their variants.

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CoCowboy692000 March 14, 2012 at 6:12 pm

Yep, and this is too bad… I just listened to a report which stated that they had done a war game a couple of years back in the event that Iran closed Hormuz and we lost 16 ships and lost over 3000 men… but hey, that's just a war game, right?

I had written in several posts over the past few months that if we were to go to war there, our 5th fleet could easily look like Pearl Harbor… Interesting to me that they reported exactly that tonight on Bret Baiers Evening News Report. Very interesting indeed.

I don't think MANPADS are going to be an issue… we have other problems far larger. They better be moving that fleet out of Bahrain and closer to the Gulf of Oman or the Owen Fracture Zone in the Indian Ocean at the mouth of the Gulf. We have to much hardware in to small a space.

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blight_ March 18, 2012 at 7:36 pm

You're thinking of Millenium Challenge 2002.

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CoCowboy692000 March 19, 2012 at 11:12 am

Blight_
I hadn't heard about that war game before, when I wrote this. I had simply been doing a lot of research on the map. So far… It appears they're doing it just as I suspect that they will –

The road through Damascus… I still think that is a huge mistake. Additionally, I noted last week that they caught terrorists in Azerbaijan… Again, I had already noted that would essentially happen… This is just going to get out of hand. All of the usual suspects are on hand too: Clinton, McCain, Graham, etc, etc, etc… You know them all. These people are certifiable straight jacket material. Time to clean to chicken house out of all of the CRAP! We've been at war since 1990. Our guys need a break and so does our hardware. And how long before other nations begin to consider America 2012, Germany 1940 on the march??? Are we not? We have hit so many nations in the Middle East and Africa, one begins to lose count…

Kski March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm

Absolutly FU@KING rediculist. Gives us more reason to beat on them stupid Iranians.

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blight_ March 13, 2012 at 11:13 pm

Same, but I'm skeptical of the whole "sent to Iran and then the Middle East" angle.

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Jacob March 14, 2012 at 1:40 am

If MANPADS are such a menace to civilian airliners, shouldn't we work out an international treaty to ban their sale and production? Proliferation of these things is just asking for trouble, and our military could most likely do without them anyway.

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notadummycrat March 14, 2012 at 2:19 am

Are you REALLY so naive you think some ban or treaty would stop their proliferation??? If you do… I have some ocean front property to sell you in Montana.

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blight_ March 18, 2012 at 7:47 pm

Like the mine treaty worked! Even Geneva Conventions forbid soldiers not wearing insignia and the like; and we're still rooting out false-flaggers in most conflicts.

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notadummycrat March 14, 2012 at 2:21 am

As usual… WE help the oppressed to be free and they repay us by arming our enemies who are trying to force world war three on us.

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Stratege March 14, 2012 at 2:47 am

>Even without the most advanced laser-based directed infrared countermeasures systems, British WAH-64 Apache attack helicopters faced a number of SA-24 firings and defeated them.

it is doubtful. Igla-S aka SA-24 could not be f//oled with simple infrared countermeasures. Igla-S using a homing head (GOS) of the two photodetectors operating in different spectral bands allowed for selection of thermal noise. It can distinguish decoys and real target.

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So? March 14, 2012 at 3:42 am

Libya worked out well.

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Tom March 14, 2012 at 10:56 am

Yea!!!! Isn't this Great News!!!!

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MBT Shoes May 17, 2012 at 2:43 am

I’m merely chatting with my personal colliege with this recently at lunch time . Have no idea of how on the globe we have to the topic truly , they introduced this. I actually do don’t forget ingesting a superb steak greens along with sunflower seed products into it. My partner and i digress…

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SERdre July 7, 2013 at 7:20 am

As usual… WE help the oppressed to be free and they repay us by arming our enemies who are trying to force world war three on us.Good thought academic plagiarism

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ハミルトン 腕時計 August 27, 2013 at 8:50 pm
CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 6:54 pm

Iran is openly trading directly with India and China NOT using the Petro Dollar right now. It's a pretty serious situation…

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passingby March 13, 2012 at 7:13 pm

Yes, that's why the criminal cabal wants to attack Iran and do a regime change to reverse the policy. They can't go in under the banner of restoring petro-dollar so they are making up all these BS nuclear programs and terrorist threats etc to create a more palatable excuse, like they did to kill Saddam Hussein and Qaddhafi to restore the petro-dollar regime in Iraq and Libya.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 7:25 pm

I agree, but it's different this time. It would be a huge mistake this time. Not the same map! We're getting into something that isn't in our best interests really. I know McCain and Graham are thumping their chests in Congress along with others, but this is a bad war if we do it… maybe even a black flag. 5th fleet could look like Pearl Harbor if we're not careful… And let's face it, The road to Tehran, if we don't use retipped conventional ICBM's, is through Damascus and it will be littered with bodies. Russia and China have VOWED to back up Syria if we go in. BAD – REAL BAD strategy… NATO is us. In other words, there's no help coming. I don't like this one bit, be it from Obama or a Republican POTUS. Our ICBM's can target a quarter – send them, not our sons.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm

I agree, but it's different this time. It would be a huge mistake this time. Not the same map! We're getting into something that isn't in our best interests really. I know McCain and Graham are thumping their chests in Congress along with others, but this is a bad war if we do it… maybe even a black flag. 5th fleet could look like Pearl Harbor if we're not careful…

And let's face it; The road to Tehran, if we don't use retipped conventional ICBM's, is through Damascus and it will be littered with bodies. Russia and China have VOWED to back up Syria if we go in. BAD – REAL BAD strategy… NATO is us. In other words, there's no help coming. I don't like this one bit, be it from Obama or a Republican POTUS. Our ICBM's can target a quarter – send them, not our sons.

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CoCowboy692000 March 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm

I tried posting that earlier but it didn't stick…

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passingby March 13, 2012 at 11:29 pm

Body count has never been a concern for the criminal syndicate. GW Bush and Dick Cheney don't care how many people die in a war, nor do Obama, Condi Rice, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, … 80 plus percent of the US Congress. Votes that keep them in office matter more to them than human lives.

It's the ordinary folks in America who have to actually suffer in the trenches and die in the battlefield. The sad reality is that with the help of a powerful propaganda apparatus (the mainstream media), the cabal can trick the less intelligent, poorly educated folks to risk their lives willingly to kill innocent civilians half way around the globe, thinking that they're actually fighting "terrorists" when the real terrorists laugh with glee at the CIA, NSA, the White House, … and corporate headquarters in New York, London, and Paris.

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CoCowboy692000 March 14, 2012 at 11:07 am

Reluctantly and sadly, I must agree… I always felt there were the "Good or righteous wars" and the "Bad wars"… This, just feels wrong all the way around… like so many of the past 50 years. As Ron Paul points out, we haven't declared war since WW2. It's about time we forced the 'good folks' in their Ivory Towers to declare it if they want to fight so much… and perhaps they'd be willing to put up their first blood…

PFFfffttttt… Ok, Ok, just thought I'd try my hand at a little early morning humor…

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CoCowboy692000 March 14, 2012 at 11:13 am

True Matt…. true enough… And there is even more honor in an all volunteer force, as opposed to a mandated force such as that which you would see in say… DPRK, or the old USSR… Our boys do take a lot of pride in their nation. They were instilled with it from their upbringing BY THEIR PARENTS – PARENTS LIKE MYSELF…

However, I would remind you how precious their blood, and America's Treasure really are… And those we elect are charged with the STEWARDSHIP of both!!! To recklessly spend both blood and treasure, is absolutely treasonous…

They are responsible to the people – not the other way around sir…..

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blight_ March 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm

Boat seems less likely into the teeth of a NATO blockade. And perhaps one or two ships reported as sunk by NATO might've been Iranian.

Moving south to Mali and chartering a flight somewhere into the Middle East before hopping to Iran might work. However, cargo aircraft going to Tehran probably are going from set airports, might be easy to monitor.

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M.L. March 14, 2012 at 6:00 pm

Sorry if I offended you, but chill the flip down, man. I didn't even 'vote' you down. A +1 or -1 on a website shouldn't ruin your day. As long as you aren't obnoxious in your posts they're fine.

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libyan May 8, 2012 at 12:32 pm

you guys have 0% understanding of how things work in the mid east.

Libya is 100% sunni muslim. we despise the iranians and hezbollah and will be cheering when they are getting blown up.

no one sent SAMs to them. the rocket tubes that went 'missing' are in random places such as under beds and in cupboards simply because the people who took them realised they are 'cooler' and more valuable than the AK 103s.

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blight_ May 8, 2012 at 1:03 pm

100% is being equally naive.

That said, Americans already know from bitter experience that Sunnis and Shias can temporarily set aside their differences to attack a common enemy. For example, Iranians and Sunni nationalists can attack Americans in Iraq seperately and perhaps tacitly avoid attacking each other (though separate bodies of Sunni and Shia paramilitaries can still attack each other).

You're probably right that missile tubes went missing: and the other possibility is that much of that stuff was expended during the fight.

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