Just a quick update on China’s stealth fighter program. We’ve all seen the pictures that emerged recently of second J-20 stealth fighter, dubbed 2002, sitting alongside the first J-20, 2001, on the flight line at Chengdu — something that indicates a test flight imminent. Well, here are some pics showing good ole 2002 making a very high-speed taxi run. As you can see, she reached a high enough speed that her nose wheel lifted off the ground and had to use the drogue parachute to come to a halt.
Enjoy.
H/t to David.
{ 82 comments… read them below or add one }
I wonder. Supposing this jet was built on stolen technology (and it presumably was) What are the odds that the J-20 pilots will suffer Hypoxia?
None. The jet is fine, China will blame the pilot!
Search up MiG-1.44. I'm pretty sure this was copied from a Russian design and slightly modified.
It looks nothing like the MiG 1.44, other than its basic twin engine canard configuration.
Then the J-20 looks nothing like the JSF or F-22 either, because neither of them is a canard configuration and there can be no argument that China is copying anyone.
Good read on this subject
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/08/18/report-russia-sold-china-tech-for-j-20/
Stop being delusional and having a inferiority and fear complex. U.S. steals more than any other country.wake up now that China has its own technological base.
They'll develop their Chi to a supernatural level so they can perform missions while only taking in a single breath before donning their entirely superfluous oxygen mask.
May I suggest that American pilots should also train for their Qi.
Probably not stolen at all, Bill Clinton gave them almost everything we had on aircraft and missile technology, Clinton was and is the worst enemy America has ever had, Him and Al Gore. China couldnt put a missile into orbit or even guide one until Clinton gave them the technology, and they said that they wouldnt use it in offense, DUHHHH HUHHHH. The first satelite was a spy satelite, the second was a satelite that they announced that they could knock out any satelite in orbit, DUHHH HUHHHH. Hey Slick Willy, the joke is on you.
I hope that happens and they go crazy.
You gotta point their! What other problems do you think our comrades behind the bambo curtain are having? Ejection seat not working, a broom stick for control, no cup holder? Who knows.
Exactly, just as I wonder what's behind the sand curtain in Afghanistan: when the 'best' military force in the world can't win against a bunch of camel jockeys.
Uh, There is no sand or Camels in Afghanistan.
This are both. Asiatic camels are native Afghanistan. Sand? You've gotta be kidding me, right? No sand in Afghanistan? What, no fat people in Ohio either?
More mountainous than anything. As for the camels? (You actually made me search for stuff about camels, I must be bored…) Bactrian camel is the name.
The Bactrian camel is the only truly wild, two-humped camel in the world. It lives in the Gobi Desert and, like the one-humped camel, it can go for long periods without water. The Bactrian camel is named after the part of the region it inhabits, Bactria, on the Afghan-Soviet border. The first camels appeared in north America 40-50 million years ago, descended from an animal the size of a small dog. They migrated to Europe and Asia two million years ago and became nearly extinct in their original habitat.
HABITAT
Once found over a vast range in Asia, Bactrian camels now inhabit only Mongolia's remote Gobi Desert. http://www.wonderclub.com/Wildlife/mammals/Bactri…
More than I ever wanted to know, on that topic.
In other news, the family of the test pilot of the new J-20 was executed today because his taxi speed was too high and his nose lifted off the ground. One party official described it as "an assault on everything we know as Chinese people" and added, "when that parachute came out, it was like common sense took over again."
I think they've learned from their mistake of assuming they knew everything and shutting down all innovation for four centuries…until the west came knocking on their door with opium at the end of a rifle and cannon.
In other news, the US air force is using F-22 pilots as guinea pigs to collect more data on why the $420 million+ jet doesn't have a proper oxygen generation system.
Carry on with your delusion and envy.
Lets face facts, the J-20 will do what ever it's supposed too. And if it is built off of stolen tech, so what. Remember way back when a russian pilot gift rapped a Mig-25 for the united states. I hope china is stealing tech, because if they aren't, then there is nothing any one can do about their conitnued rapid progress. It would mean that they can produce high tech weapons and what ever else they need with out outside help. Mean while the f-35 is turning into a pipe dream, and the f-22 has pilots scared to fly it.
The first part of what you say makes great sense — if China has indigenous capability to produce, and circumvent the need to steal, technology then we should all tremble a little. But, I have to ask, what the hell are you talking about when you bash the F-35? What does "turning into a pipe dream" even mean? The F-35 is a robust and capable platform and it will kick a lot of ass. And they're already being delivered.
LOL……….. Yeah, ok.
"The F-35 is a robust and capable platform and it will kick a lot of ass. And they're already being delivered."
Hmmm… yes yes, and mission accomplished in Iraq and soon, very soon, in Afghanistan. Head firmly stuck up your ass…
Your comfort with firm things up your ass doesn't extend to me. And what do you think? Do you really think this is going to flop? Get real. All the bad news is as much a part of cost negotiation and political wrangling as the actual contract. Read some history. Then open your pie hole.
I have read plenty of history regarding F-35. The per unit cost has risen around 100% since 2001, discounting inflation. The program is projected to overshoot its initial deadline by almost six years. These are facts, and if you can't accept them, then yes, your head is firmly stuck in the wrong place.
Ass can be a warm place for your head. I'm not judging.
…..
The Mig-25 defect was a good example of this whole technology stealing thing. We got a defector and we got a good look at the Mig-25. We learned it was hand welded, used rather poor construction materiels by US standard, it destroyed its engines at top speeds, visability was extremly limited, you could avoid its radar by staying below 1600 feet, the F-4 was superier in a dog fight, and it had an almost useless combat radius for anything but firing a single salvo of missles on an intercept course.
The US has gone about things a differant way. We dont want the technology, we want to know how to design our aircraft to defeat everyone else. The Jap Zero we captured in Alaska was classic. The Zero had American planes on everything but guns and armor. But we learned how to exploit its weaknesses in a dogfight and after that even our second rate aircraft were shooting down Zeros like it was going out of style. As much as I dont want to agree that them stealing tech is good, I think your point is valid. Up till now they have yet to prove they can design an inhouse design relying on only there original designs. So in the end that is a good thing.
The Zero was a fine plane for its day. The mind set on use was different. If you are faster & better handling; The American won't get close to shoot you. The use of cannon was also a plus over our .30 & .50 cal MG's. What really changed was the loss of the cream of IJN pilot corps at Midway. They never got the talent level back. By late war, our tech got better & the talent were on suicide duty. It's like camparing a katana to a calvary saber.
Just keep in mind that they lost a lot of the cream to American pilots in less maneuverable aircraft that had the benefit of armor plating and self-sealing fuel tanks. Once the US developed tactics like the Thach weave to counter the Zero's advantages, the Japanese didn't have much else to fall back on.
"We dont want the technology, we want to know how to design our aircraft to defeat everyone else."
This must be why we captured a whole bunch of German scientists and engineers and put them to work to design turbine engines, fighter planes, and Saturn V rockets…
Stop telling the truth.U.S is therefore stealing technology as well
I'm providing a public service to these mouth-breathin', west virginian sister-lovers… I pity these slack jawed dweebs for never getting much education, and I'm providing them with some here.
At last u r facing the truth.
I have to agree. Even if this tech is ALMOST good as ours, do not ever gorget they have the money to prevent tons of it. *IF* we spend the money, we can fix the one major flaw of the Raptor. **IF** we spend the money we can make a hundred or so F35s. What good will they be against 500 or 600 of these J20s? We have to think, and think hard. We are NOT limitless on funds, so we're gonna have to get better at procurement. I honestly do NOT think our government or our military can do that.
More pictures combined: http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/5043/chi…
http://theaviationist.com/2012/05/12/2002-nose/
http://indiandefenceboard.com/threads/second-chin…
http://alert5.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2115…
http://www.thebaseleg.com/Other/J20-First-Public-…
Hirez: http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/2002-f…
http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/2002-f…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mYf1Z8T7E1M/T68Vf8r3Q-I…
Cockpit system: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h174/waheedmalik/display1.jpg
The f-35 is a jobs program, plus we don't have anything else. And if you didn't understand "pipe dream" then "looking at through rose colored glasses," will escape you also.
The big elephant in the room during every F-35 cost criticism is that this is the first major procurement priced in terms of lifetime costs — over fifty (that's five oh) years — rather than individual unit at acquisition costs. That's why cost comparisons to our other fighters make the F-35 look so pricy. Other jet's costs don't generally include 50 years of maintenance, training, and supply chain logistics. In addition to that little rhetorical gem, a quick wiki-based exploration reveals that almost every other fighter out there experienced major delays, hiccups, and costs overruns. Top that with great results coming from more pragmatic evaluation sources, and disregard political budget wrangling, then one can start to see the US has a nice fighter on its hands.
Hahaha… What? This? 'Tis but a scratch!
And oh, the cost and schedule overruns are built-in features, right? Riiight…
So theword C0ckpit is forbidden, though the picture is very informative, ok, lol.
In any case rumor hat is that new 2002 prototype has a AESA radar set installed.
And in this latest video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LGhfKTbeUA
It seems that on 2001 EODAS is present too.
First 2002 engine test is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBn2h1CnnZI
Those must be Russian engines. Any ideas what model?
Officially, the WS-15 : http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0912/27_28…
Read this:
"However, as J-15 itself is in prototype stage, unlikely, Ws-10G could be mature at present and being installed on J20 prototype.
The j-20 main contractor, CAC has a close working relation with Russia's Salyut, Salyut secured AL-31F contract from Saturn because of Chinese order ( CAC’s J10), and developed improved AL-31F-m1, m2 , m3 etc, solely for CAC initially, although later the Al31F-M1 became the standard powerplant of Su27SM. The AL31F-M1 reaches 13 ton max thust, slightly higher than wS-10 current allowed max thust . M2 reaches 14 tons, currently the best can be offered by Salyut to CAC, I suspect the Al-31F-M2 could have been installed in the J-20 prototype.
But nevertheless, J-20 will be powered by Ws-15 turbofan"/
post by: Pinko 12th December 2010 http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1…
AFAIR Chinese engines still have extremely short life cycle. So unlikely that J-20 is powered with Chinese engine.
Not surprised. Overall this plane is based on MiG 1.44 tech and stealth technology came from a F-117A shot down over Serbia in 1999. SO in the end not surprised they are experimenting with there combination of the two technologies.
Skyepapa, thank you for informing me, and I hope the F-35 is as good as you think. But right about now if I matched it up with an f-16 or F/A18 Super, who do you think will come out on top?
I'd say the F-16 or the F/A18 since the F-35 isn't operational and pilots are not trained yet. You can't pit a puppy against a seasoned junk yard dog, even if the puppy is a pit bull. Give the platform time to mature. Then we'll play this game.
That's unfair… we've got only, what, two dozen F-35 against over a thousand F-16s… of course the F-16s' gonna win.
Jeff, please go away.
You first.
Trolling
Umm. How big does a fighter get before it is too big to be a fighter?
In the 100+ years of aviation, planes have increased in size. The Red Barron would have thought A P-38 to be big. Guys flying F-86's would call a F-14 or 15 big as well.
So, there is no actual rule of thumb?
If a B52 could dog fight, it would be a fighter?
Well Ok, not that big……
It's all about Wing loading and thrust to weight ratio. Of course when you get bigger it's hard to get strength to weight, and when you get heavier, it's harder to get engines big enough. Reference Bf-110's failure as a fighter.
On the other hand the F7F was a great fighter And big for it's day.. Landing on a deck, not so much. The P-61 was as big as B-26 or B-25 yet did well at night. And let us not forget such big performers like the Mossie & Beaufighter.
Ahh, the F-35 JSF, where the "Joint" means it's shit that all the services are gonna have to eat, and shit that all the fanboys love to smoke.
know thy enemy.
Consider that this is an attempt at a Stealth fighter, not a competitor with the F-22 or the F-35…not yet anyway. They are trying to develop an F-117 like Stealth Fighter here, and based on size it probably will have some bomber capabilities… time will tell.
As to the delivery of O2 under high speed and altitude (vac) conditions… well, many programs have had to overcome this. I am sure that the AF is trying to define the hypoxia issues and correct them… perhaps this information is what we should be striving to control in our less than secure Military/Industrial complex.
AFAIR Chinese engines still have extremely short life cycle
Maybe the Chinese can send over some of their airplane developers and fix our F-22 oxygen problem? IF, and that is a big IF, they did steal data from us that is being used on their J-20, perhaps they also wound up with all the technical information about what might be causing these oxygen mishaps? Hey, just a thought Right?
chinese all arms is copy by russia&us.china have not capability to make any modern arms.
jealousy!, sour grape bitch! and looser lol!!!!!!!!!!.
Russian, west and jap stolen our inventions such as gun powder, rocket and others. If wasn't us you would still butt naked and have no toilet paper to clean your hairly and dirty ass!
As general aviation in the United States slides further into apathy China has discovered how useful a network of general aviation facilities. Is the Future of General Aviation in China? http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/4fa177f5c6f8fa…
no bad, i heard the news about the china flighter , that is wonderful.
i have a strong competitor and it is good for us.
hope f22 have solved all problems!
This sit admits the Chinese took alot from the MiG 1.44 design to make this plane.
Yeah, a good read , but only if you like rumor, conjecture, and innuendo. I suggest that people who believe that the J-20 is copied from the MiG 1.44 take a closer look…
And incidentally, given that Lockheed Martin openly purchased technical data from Yakovlev concerning the mechanics of the supersonic VSTOL Yak-141, would you then say that the F-35B was copied from the Freestyle?
"this sit admits"
What?! Are you five?
Dude, I meant the history of other programs. My point is that this program's problems aren't unique and in ten years will be forgotten. Hell, you'll probably be on your porch hootin' and hollerin' when these things rattle your windows. But just to simmer things down a bit: I concede the cost overruns and production delays; I just don't think they're unique and don't think they equate to a less-than killer product.
since the problems aren't unique, you'd think DoD may have come up with ways to prevent them from happening over and over again…. nope that'd be expecting too much
"Dude, I meant the history of other programs."
We are talking about F-35 here. Stay on topic.
Context is the enemy of a weak perspective. I'm done with you.
Are you running away like the Marines from the Taliban?
"More than I ever wanted to know, on that topic."
Really? Maybe you should have dug deeper. See:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1705341.stm
Hello?! Is it just possible for someone to bring some of them camels from the Gobi desert to Afghanistan to, oh I don't know, be used for transport and just maybe for kamikaze attacks?
You are a dumbass.
Your really making not making many friends here Jeff. Turn down the flames a bit.
You really need to get back on your meds. Some of the stuff you have posting leaves a lot to be desired. Just because folks don't agree with you, that is no reason to reply the way you do. West Virginia folks may just be a lot more savvy about things than you give them credit for.
Not copied from the Mig 1.44, but inspired by MiG.
Your right it is rumor, and im not saying the J-20 was copied by the Mig 1.44
either, I just provided the link.
On the Yakovlev Yak-41M Freestyle, yes it was copied. How could you say otherwise? Yakovlev was openly seeking funds for the project that they could not fund any longer. Lockheed stepped in and gave them 400 million dollars.
Yakovlev also did the sane thing with the Yak-130.
From Aviation Week :
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/arti…