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Secret flying saucer plans declassified

by Mike Hoffman on October 9, 2012

The little green guys from the sky had it all laid out for the Pentagon. Then the U.S. Air Force and a Canadian defense firm got their hands on the schematics for flying saucers and they had to muck it all up.

No, seriously. Well, maybe not the alien part.

The National Archives declassified and released the official plans from the 1950s on Sept. 20 to build a flying saucer under the secret code name Project 1794. Air Force leaders wanted to build the next secret weapon to defeat the Soviet Union in the Cold War.

The Pentagon had hoped to build a saucer that could reach speeds of Mach 4 and reaching altitudes of 100,000 feet — the perfect aircraft to potentially spy on nuclear launch locations across the USSR. The saucer, however, had a limited range of 1,000 nautical miles. 

Air Force and Navy officials could have envisioned flying saucers taking off from aircraft carriers stationed across the world as it had a vertical take off and landing capability decades before generals even started to talk about the Osprey.

The U.S. military exported the secret program to Canada offering the development contract to Avro Aircraft Limited in Ontario. Before it was cancelled, their two-year contract was worth $3,168,000.

A video of Avro’s prototype, however, shows a cylindrical aircraft struggling to even get out off the ground. Soon after, the Defense Department cancelled the program in 1960 following meager test results.

More schematic photos below.

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{ 132 comments… read them below or add one }

andy October 9, 2012 at 4:08 pm

Cancel ? I don't think so.

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Menzie October 9, 2012 at 5:44 pm

Yeah more like improved, refined, before being built and tested over hippie communes and backwater communities. Plus they invented a way to make fast food by landing near cattle and aiming a ray-gun an poof…..a cheezburger all wrapped up is left laying on the ground. While th cow is either eviscerated or drained of blood.

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Max October 10, 2012 at 10:15 am

Yeah, none it really happened anyway. All of the millions of people who claim to have seen ufos were all eating too much pizza, or it was swamp gas, or no wait, it was actually a weather balloon. No matter that thousands of policemen, government officials, lawyers, and other people with plenty to lose have made the same claims in spite of the danger to their reputations. Yeah, it’s all just a great big lie, because some people like yourself refuse to put your thinking cap on and reason that it is impossible that thousands of people could all be seeing the same “great big lie” all at the same time, thousands and thousands of time every single year all over the world. Yeah, it’s all a great big lie.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 10, 2012 at 1:47 pm

Yes, there are "millions"of UFO sightings, but most of them do in fact turn out to be balloons, airliners, marsh gas, hallucinations, etc. A small number remain unidentified, but the fact that they remain unidentified does NOT automatically mean that they are A) secret government projects or B) aliens coming to Earth to mutilate cattle, draw crop circles and do reproductive experiments on the planet's native population. It simply means "unidentified".

And the "thousands of people saw the same thing" argument doesn't quite work. If a group of people see "something", and one of them suddenly goes "Hey, it's that Big Black Triangle With Lights (TM) that everyone on ATS is talking about", then suddenly that's what everyone has seen. Humans are suggestible.

Having said that, I consider it entirely possible that some UFO sightings are in fact classified (earthly) aircraft.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

PS: ”….people like yourself refuse to put your thinking cap on….”. Shouldn't that be “tin-foil cap”?

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Max October 10, 2012 at 10:31 am

Oh and by the way, we know that government officials never lie to the public, right?

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gyulus007 October 9, 2012 at 4:30 pm

really interesting, they drawed those plans only 3 years after the Roswell incident…. well, i think if they used jet propulsion instead of the central proppeller, this could be functional too… :D

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rick October 10, 2012 at 12:26 pm

"Drawed", is that a verb?

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Rocco October 11, 2012 at 12:26 am

Yea past tense ain’t it?

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Daniel October 10, 2012 at 8:16 pm

Except the engine would be loud as all hell and extremely fuel inefficient.

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dee October 9, 2012 at 5:41 pm

The Chinese will have a copy ready for flight testing in……9 months.

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Menzie October 9, 2012 at 5:46 pm

But it will be a non-functional knock-off, containing lead and stocked with melamine containing foods.

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Lee October 10, 2012 at 9:47 am

Sorry Dee, but I think they already have one. They're able to keep secrets…we can't!

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Brandon October 10, 2012 at 10:45 am

HA HA HA HA As they say if wouldn't be funny if it wasnt true. With VTOL and thrust vectoring, delta wings and kinards (Not a jet guru so spare me on terminology), I wouldnt be surprised if this was a fairly easy thing to build. Minus all the stealth and hi tech defense systems obviously.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 10, 2012 at 2:01 pm

"Not a jet guru…." – your post makes that entirely clear.

How exactly would you go about fitting delta wings and canards to a friggin' flying saucer, Mr. Not-A-Jet-Guru? I'm genuinely curious….

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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blight_ October 10, 2012 at 3:31 pm

You don't see wings on frisbees, do you?

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elmondohummus October 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Yeah, but with the way a frisbee spins in flight, I don't think I'd want to ride on one. :-S

;)

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Robert Bryant October 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm

LOL yes LOL

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Noha307 October 9, 2012 at 6:14 pm

Project 1794? Sounds like someone scrambled the numbers…

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gary October 10, 2012 at 10:52 pm

Great comment–like Orwell's 1984 which was written in 1948.

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NS Muse October 12, 2012 at 8:28 am

Was that 1974? I have forgotten the year, and what was going to happen.

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Anthony October 13, 2012 at 7:43 pm

1947…original recovery date

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BILL D October 9, 2012 at 7:09 pm

Interesting–except I read all about it on Wired-Danger room 5 days ago—-way to keep up DT

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Ben October 9, 2012 at 8:07 pm

Same here. They've definitely been slacking lately…

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 10, 2012 at 1:50 pm

You can go even further back: This project, among many others, was described quite extensively in the book "Secret Projects – Flying Saucer Aircraft" by Bill Rose and Tony Buttler, copyrighted in 2006. I recommend it.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Art Frailey October 10, 2012 at 8:19 pm

Old Stuff ! I remember reading about it sometime in the 70s in Popular Science.

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dubweiser101 October 9, 2012 at 8:24 pm

The concept of circular/disc shaped aircraft dates before the "Roswell Incident". I believe the first tangible attempt was Sack's AS6 model. Though it proved unsuccessful at the time (1944) it did lay the ground work for the basic concept.

Many modern day concepts are indeed based on old idea's laid down by Nazi funded research. The B-2 for example is an extension of the Go-229, and the F-86 and MiG-15 were spawned from the Ta-183 design.

Not to mention the fact that nearly every delta-wing fighter (especially the Dassault's Mirage series) owe their lineage to Nazi research which began with Lippsische.

Just saying, the 'flying saucer' isn't new technology…

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SMSgt Mac October 9, 2012 at 10:30 pm

The Horten Brothers (Ho-229) and Northrop designs were unrelated. Jack Northrop was pursuing a pure flying wing in incremental steps for at least a decade and a half before WW2 and long before theLippsisch convinced the Horten brothers to develop unconventional designs. The Ta-183 more accuratelydirectly spawned Kurt Tank's postwar fighter design in Argentina, but the 'swept wing' engineering involved was, like most German military research, brought into the Allies hands as legal 'war reparations', making it's way quickly onto swept wing fighter and bomber designs and more slowly onto others. the Bell X-5 was the closest thing to a 'copy' of a German design the US ever built.

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Bob October 10, 2012 at 7:57 pm

"Sack's"? You mean Sac's…

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:05 am

Nope. The guy's name was Arthur Sack. He developed and built a series of "circular wing" aircraft back in 1939-1944. Neither of the designs flew very well, if at all.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Bornfree Taxtadeth October 12, 2012 at 10:34 am

Agree'd! We have seen this same technology recorded as far back as the Mayan and Incan civilizations, too……!

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USA October 9, 2012 at 8:32 pm

i dont think they canceld it but its pretty good TEC so if they did i would tri and get it going again. hey its better than helicopters that always get shot down

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 10, 2012 at 1:55 pm

"….its pretty good TEC…." – except for not working, you mean?

"….its better than helicopters that always get shot down…." – or rather, it would be, if it worked. And even if it could be made to work, why would it be less vulnerable than helicopters, assuming you have it flying the same (types of) missions as helo's?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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stephen russell October 9, 2012 at 8:35 pm

Revise project with 3D printing & AutoCAD alone, add composites etc, then see if saucer flies Today vs then IE 1960??

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lamel80 October 9, 2012 at 9:09 pm

Fly by Wire would probably make the biggest difference between then and now. Look what that did for the F-117.

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Dfens October 9, 2012 at 11:19 pm

What a bunch of bs. Too bad people don't spend their time figuring out what makes good and successful airplanes good and successful instead of pandering to the pop science crowd.

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Paul October 9, 2012 at 11:50 pm

I've got some documentaries (I believe UK) on this from a few years ago. Having said that, it's good to see it in the news still. It wasn't that bad, assuming anyone continued the research in any compacity, it would be somewhat impressive with "modern" technology.

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chris October 10, 2012 at 10:17 am

very true Paul, i remember seeing a documentary about it with film of the craft some twenty years ago.

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Speedy October 10, 2012 at 2:31 am

Avro aircar.. just add a skirt and you have a hovercraft.
Flying suacers: I have seen drawings of the original german designs. a cocpit with a fan system arranged around it. (In a housing etc). vectored jet engines direct thrust to the blades to cause them to spin, the thrust also applied forward motion etc.

OLD NEWs as well, News.com.au had it sooner.
(Nice drawings though.)

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RCDC October 10, 2012 at 6:53 am

Unidentified alright but the engine and flight are more likely a VTOL aircraft. Probably it would take another 100 years to have a reaf UFO unless they will discover the anti magnetic aircraft flight early.

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Liam October 10, 2012 at 8:19 am

ET…phone home!! The USAF has lost it's cookies!!

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Da Vinci October 10, 2012 at 9:03 am

Leonardo’s “helicopter” design, in the 1400′s, could be the ground work for the current “flying saucer” design (http://www.leonardo-da-vinci-biography.com/leonardo-da-vinci-flying-machine.html).

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Veng October 10, 2012 at 11:06 am

It wasn't cancelled, it was absorbed by the XCOM Project. :p

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cleareyedreader October 10, 2012 at 2:04 pm

Avro, the Canadian company. Isn't this the one the built the Avro Arrow, a fighter which got mysteriously cancelled on a call from the prez to the Canadian prime minister at the time? Too much competition for Boeing, Grumman, etc. Not sure.

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Avroengines October 11, 2012 at 7:30 am

Yes, it is the same Avro. I work for what is left of that company in Toronto in the plant where the Iroquois engines were built. There were multiple contracts with the US for development of various equipment back in that time period. The Avrocar was not the same contract as this story applies to. The Avrocar was supposed to be a troop carrier for the army to use over swampy, difficult terrain. Similar to a hovercraft, only hovercraft ended up working better. There were a few other projects as well that will probably appear out of the archives over the next couple of years.

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Tiger October 11, 2012 at 7:43 am

same

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Pappa51 October 10, 2012 at 2:45 pm

The Truth is out there. . .
Cheers

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Woody October 10, 2012 at 5:15 pm

I saw this flying around when I used Google Earth to look at Area 51…..ho hum, old news…..just like you can see a U-2 taking off from the other airport near there….boo-ya!…I saw this before all of you here…..

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H. Jones October 10, 2012 at 7:25 pm

When was that Woody? I saw the original USAF photos back in 1956 when they were marked Top Secret. Saw about 8 photos and read the letter about the secret base in Northern Montana and the joint US/Canadian task force. Now that this is out I can finally mention that incident.

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Jim October 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm

This is so new, it was in Popular Science magazines back in the 1960's. I actually believe that this is one of the "strange light" arrays that people claim to see around that region at night. The best way to end a rumor mill, is to come forward and state that the experiments were cancelled, yet keep them going under another guise name. The only time our military services, and the CIA, or whomever is testing some new equipment, especially flying or underwater stuff is acknowledging it exists, while at the same time already working on new generation/s of the equipment.

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Art Fraile October 10, 2012 at 8:28 pm

Yep, thought so. I thought it was in the 70s this was in Pop Science.

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Neil Kantor September 11, 2013 at 3:05 pm

The four forces of Thrust, Drag, Lift and Gravity would be irrelevant with a true UFO type craft, which is utterly independent of these forces….(except Thrust),,,,what they are talking about here is more like a flying "fan" or a helicopter,,, just pure silliness, and waste of time…FORCE FIELD PROPULSION is what is necessary, and this is dependent on an understanding of the VACUUM STRUCTURE (Structure of Space) and how to manipulate, exploit, pump it… It is a VERY STIFF and Substantive AETHER, which science has thrown by the wayside but in private cirles, it is realized as the Central Player in the Play,, all the talk about String theory, blah blah, is just wasting time,,, the Real Researchers have moved beyond it.

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Thomas October 10, 2012 at 7:46 pm

Lift is achieved by airflow that is faster flowing over the top of an object and slower moving under it, ie. a fixed wing.
A circular object, such as the diagram above is incapable of lift because the airflow is reduced at the edges and increased in the center of the shape. The object is counter productive in regards to airflow and lift.

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Curious October 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm

Be careful with that idea of how lift is created over a wing. Bernoulli’s principle has long been misapplied in textbooks, websites, etc. in lift theory. There may be elements of truth in the principle in regards to lift theory, but it fails to offer any complete explanation. Lift of an airfoil is generated more from Newton’s Third Law coming into effect from air passing both under and over an airfoil.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/wrong1.html
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/lift1.html

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Riceball October 11, 2012 at 11:55 am

Then how do you explain frisbees? Also, don't forget the old saying that if you put enough thrust behind it you can make a brick fly; just look at the F-4 Phantom, supposedly had all the glide characteristics of a brick yet it flew because of its two big engines. So, even if a circular object is incapable you could still, theoretically, make it fly by giving it enough thrust. However, that's not really necessary since we know that circular objects like frisbees achieve lift every day without any problems.

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Don Davis October 11, 2012 at 7:23 pm

It seems to me if this were true, a circular object not being capable of lift, that Frisbees wouldn't work.

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ken October 12, 2012 at 7:22 am
ken October 12, 2012 at 7:24 am

you guys said it better…i should have looked at the various replies before posting

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walter f billings October 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm

I was a SAC Nuclear Missile Launch Officer during the height of the Cold War in the 1970s, and I can tell you, that SAC, CIA, DIA, USAF, and everyone associated with them took the subject very seriously. They never laughed at the subject and they told us to keep our mouth shut to whatever we heard or saw.

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Victoria October 12, 2012 at 5:43 am

This was my experience as well. There is much we have learned in a very short time and how that has happened is in much debate. Will we ever know the real truth. NO. Unless we speak in these kinds of formats.

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Michael October 10, 2012 at 8:35 pm

I remember reading about in Popular Science a long time ago.

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Mama Habu October 10, 2012 at 8:53 pm

Info was "Leaked" to the public, but the article says it was just "Declassified" – Yes, we all saw pics and articles about it earlier… but anyone "active" at the time was not allowed to talk about it. During the time, it was VERY intense and certianly NOT a laughing matter.

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Lgi October 10, 2012 at 9:02 pm

That giant triangle is a replacement for the
USAF C-5B, it is a large flying wing,dirigible hybrid , it will eventually be shown to public.
From a pissed off former Boeing Aerospace Engineer that worked on the project.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:09 am

"That giant triangle…" – what giant triangle?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Fred October 10, 2012 at 9:27 pm

$3million well spent. Retards

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anne October 10, 2012 at 10:16 pm

My husband and our children witnessed one hovering above the trees near our home in the 1970's in Homestead, Florida. The military denied its existence at the time.

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Chuck October 10, 2012 at 10:34 pm

I was there in the 70s and saw that also.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:19 am

"The military denied its existence at the time".

What exactly did "the military" say? Did they say "Didn't exist – now STFU" or just "Nothing to do with us". In the latter case, they could have been telling the truth if, for example, what you saw was a deliberate hoax of some kind, perpetrated by a bunch of bored frat-boys?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Harlaldo Erlin October 10, 2012 at 10:25 pm

NEVER BELIEVE THE MILITARY!!!!

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indianmedicine October 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm

If you look at the "History Channel", much Technology was obtained during & after WWII from Plans that Germany was undertaking. Interesting that this is NOT News, but confirmation that The United States Govt.knew much more about ET's then claimed.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:22 am

Please explain to the cynical sceptic:

How exactly does "….much Technology was obtained during & after WWII from Plans that Germany was undertaking" confirm that "The United States Govt.knew much more about ET's"?

If anything, it would indicate that it's not about ETs, but about classified aircraft projects.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Andrew October 10, 2012 at 11:24 pm

Anne, I would love to hear more about the Homestead incident. I had my own strange sighting at RAF Lakenheath in the UK. Always assumed it was just an early sighting of classified aircraft.

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Shane October 11, 2012 at 4:22 am

Thomas, how do you know the photos are fake. Not challenging your claim just curious. Also I agree with J Vance in the argument of the need for secrecy, our military is what it is due to secrecy. We can almost be sure that the military is always one step ahead. Isn’t that how it works, the military develops technology, and keeps it secret until it needs to be utilized. If there was not secrecy there would be no military. Don’t you agree?

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DougF October 11, 2012 at 5:07 am

Ummm…no. The military very often offers up advancements for public use, witness the Internet and GPS as just two of many. And, no secrecy does not mean no military. Yes, all militaries have “secrets”, just as everyone else on the planet does. Some secrets would give enemies a direct advantage, others, if known, might steer adversaries around obstacles or at least away from ideas or concepts that don’t work. Every dollar you can get the enemy to spend chasing wild geese is a dollar NOT spent on valid projects

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 10:14 am

PART 1:

Shane,
No probs. I fully acknowledge the need for military (or even civilian/commercial) secrecy, and as stated above, if there are any genuine UFOs out there, I find it most likely that they are(presently unknown) classified aircraft programs.

Please note that what I referred to as "fake" was Nazi Flying Saucer (TM) photos and plans, specifically of the "Vril" variety. Essentially, I do so because there is no reason to believe otherwise. “Somebody posted it on the Interwebs” does not make it true. I mean, for frak's sake, google "Vril disc" and tell me what you think…..

(cont.)

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 10:14 am

PART 2:

To be more specific:

1) The documents on Nazi Flying Saucers (TM) seem to have appeared out of nowhere in the post-war period. I have yet to see any source reference for any of it that indicates it’s genuine.

2) The persons, books and internet sources that peddle this stuff are themselves fine arguments for disbelief (This is one of the “best”: http://greyfalcon dot us/ WARNING: May cause your head to asplode!)

3) If the Nazi’s actually had anti-gravity, 10 000 mph flying saucers in 1944, why did they still manage to lose the war?

I hope that answers your question.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Riceball October 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm

Not doubting you but as to your #3, by 1944 the Germany probably couldn't produced a working flying saucer even if they knew how. By 1944 the end was very near and their manufacturing capacity wasn't what it once was. By that point both skilled labor and materials were getting short and they were having a hard enough time making their existing planes don't mention some sort of advanced anti-grav flying saucer. I mean, how many different planned wonder weapons did they have on their drawing boards by war's end but were never able to actually produce?

Perhaps the biggest argument for why they didn't have a flying saucer in 1944 when they, supposedly could have? Hitler. By 1944 he was stark raving mad and even more of a complete idiot than he ever was and he could easily have ordered them not to be produced/fielded because they'd take away from some other super war winning weapons system in the works.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 13, 2012 at 5:46 am

I agree with your assessment, Riceball, but with "modifications" :-)

The "1944" I quoted was the year when Nazi Germany supposedly had armed, war-ready anti-gravity flying saucers in the air. The first prototype (again: supposedly) flew in 1939. See e.g. (repeat warning: May cause your head to asplode): http://discaircraft.greyfalcon dot us/HAUNEBU.htm and http://discaircraft.greyfalcon dot us/The%20Vril%20Discs.htm

If this is supposed to be the case, then up until perhaps late 1943, even Adolf McLoonyPants Hitler would have recognized that these were not just war-winning but world-winning weapons (they would in effect have constituted the "super war winning weapons system" you refer to).

As such, if any of this is true, the Nazi's had every opportunity to start mass production of their alleged anti-gravity flying saucers before Adolf went completely bonkers.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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TrustButVerify October 15, 2012 at 1:21 pm

Well… my head asplode.

RichD October 11, 2012 at 7:04 am

One of the two "Avrocars" is now on display at the Air Force Museum's research aircraft gallery at WPAFB.

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Tiger October 11, 2012 at 7:50 am

I’m calling the MIB to have your minds erased….

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Vaporhead October 11, 2012 at 8:14 am

Anybody notice that the new drone (X-47B) is a spitting image of that alien craft from the movie "Flight of the Navigator?" That movie came out in the mid 80's.

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Psyche335 October 11, 2012 at 8:33 am

Though I believe there is significant empirical evidence to suggest UFOs exist, these schematics are so ridiculous its comical! It suggests they were planning to use their existing technology to build a futuristic machine; it's like using Leonardo's plans to make a Tomcat!

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Jim October 11, 2012 at 9:55 am

Just remember that we don't know what we don't know. According to my high level contacts with insider knowledge, the flying saucer was never cancelled, just moved to more secure facilities. The ex-nazi head of the predicessor to NASA discovered anomalies in the first three satellite launches and collaborated with is nazi scientist friends at the Rocky Plantation in Argentena, where they discovered anti gravity and started the Bell Project. The rest is secret society history that is rarely discussed with the uninitiated. I do not believe in keeping these secrets. I am a member of an new organization that is revealing these and other secrets to happiness, luck, wealth, and health, etc.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 1:39 pm

Oh please…. "According to my high level contacts with insider knowledge…." – Seriously? And the reason we should believe any of that is…..?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Unclass October 11, 2012 at 11:33 am

This wasn’t recently desclassified. My dad worked on this project in the 1960s. He and other members of the project wrote their names on an inner top panel of a prototype at the Transportation Museum in Ft. Eustic, VA.

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jim October 11, 2012 at 11:35 am

Isn't it funny how tax payers find out where their money is going some 60 years later?

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Nigeriannightmare October 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm

Andrew,

I was also stationed at RAF Lakenheath as an Air Traffic Controller in the tower and saw something flew across my radar screen working nightshift and I looked to the skye and saw something glide above. I called Approach Controll who confirmed that there was something out there. I then proceeded to call RAF Feltwell who are the detachment of Space command. He did say don't worry about it. Come to find out later it was an expiremental aircraft. Too many secrets that we will never know about. Need to know is the Motto.

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Gene Alfaro October 11, 2012 at 3:55 pm

There is ine of these at the Fort Eustic Transportaion Museum.
Reference: AVRO CAR VZ-9AV “Flying Saucer” The URL is http://www.transchool.lee.army.mil/museum/transpo
NAIL 227

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tom October 11, 2012 at 5:04 pm

Ronald McDonald had a working version in the 1960s although it never got more than 6 inches of the ground. They later developed the hovercraft based on his design. Does anyone think Ronny was an actual Roswell survivor?

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 2:07 am

"Does anyone think Ronny was an actual Roswell survivor?"

No.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Brad October 11, 2012 at 9:58 pm

So what are they saying: instead of being butt probed by E.T. it's going to to be Lt. Bob?!

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 2:09 am

More like Mr. Ed from TSA (or Ms. Ed, if you're lucky) :-)

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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John Boland October 12, 2012 at 7:19 am

Well, I doubt the research & development was full cancelled, though that one Canadian contract may have been. Look back the the stories oif the Navy Physicist in Las Vegas who proved he'd worked at Alamagordo NM and who claimed to have worked at Groom Lake (check your Rand McNallys) alegedly part of Area 51 who said we had 'six' flying saucers at Groom Lake. All flying on "anti-gravity.' All the stories – with the back and forth – were front page news on the Las Vegas Review Journal between 1988 and 1991. Check it out…

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 10:19 am

"Look back the the stories oif the Navy Physicist in Las Vegas who proved he'd worked at Alamagordo NM and who claimed to have worked at Groom Lake"

Links please! And if you're talking about Bob Lazar…..don't bother.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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John Boland October 12, 2012 at 10:25 pm

I couldn't recal his name but you got it and while many beleive he's a nut – his information including the design & shape of the 'hanger' at GROOM LAKE proved valid when a photo emerged. His credentials were challenged and he claims an effort to make him a non-person, but there was a photo on the front page of the Alamagordo paper of him with all the dignitaries at a ribbon cutting that was never debunked.
His arrest in LV destoyed some of of alleged credibilty and some followers stayed with him as he 'explained' his 'accounting' affiliation with the Escort Business there.
Probably will never lnow in my life time.

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Gio October 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm

Germans too was building flying saucers in the II world war . All the people are very interest to build this aircrafts for win the war .
Remember that when the II war finished , german scientist were accepted in USA , inluded scientist tha working for SS 's . Win the war made to get scientist for win the war a priority, included people thar has been working in the opposote side .
I imagina a men of this said about the fly saucers that Germany was beggining to buid and the acrrer for the first flying saucers begins here .
Good history . Interersting forms of work in war times .

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Cal October 12, 2012 at 3:05 pm

I made this up! That’s my toy aircraft :)

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marc October 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm

The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that none of them have tried to contact us publicly.

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Guest October 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm

The drawings look familiar. Perhaps they are similar to ones in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science between 1955 and 1965.

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Nami October 14, 2012 at 5:00 am

I heard that in Ancient India they UFO s were called "Vermona's" ( spelling) long before Columbus Discovered America. Adolf Hitler sent his men after the Plans in India and also in 1936 a UFO crashed somewhere in Europe so Hitler and his men attempted Reverse Technology "Third Reich Secret Weapons"… Also Wernher Von Braun (Head of NASA, Died in 1974) told an American News Reporter, " We (Germany) had Help from other than, of this World"…
"V-1 Rocket", First Cruz Missile… "The Bell" Time Travel… "V-2 Rocket" First ICBM… "New York Bomb" or Atomic Bomb, but we won that race, thanks to Prof. Albert Einstein… Then "Operation Paper Clip", German Scientist Extraction… Followed and then "Operation High Jump", Go After the Germans in Antarctica… See also Admiral Perry' s Diary (Missing Log) Antarctica "Hollow Earth".
I strongly Believe that the United States, USSR, and China should get together and send a 1000 Planetary Probes to Every Known M2 Class Planet already. And in ten to Twenty years or so we can send people. Earth has the Population to do it!
Everyone will say where's the Money!!!! Money At this time should have been of the past… Humans as a whole should Be Working and Accumulating POINT s Or CREDIT s just by Living or Breathing…. Points and Credits Should Start from the Day You Where Born, 1 P/C (Point or Credit)… Tell the Day you Pass Away, Infinity P/C …
The Special Elite Would have a special Card for Buying Power and Travel…. White Collar and Blue Collar Workers, Plant Workers, Farmers and Etc…. Would be Paid in the same manner as $$$$' s but giving as P/C (Points Or Credits) instead. Points and Credit Raises should be brought before a board of members based on Work Ethics, Production, or No. of Year (s) Worked. Private Businesses workers well be Giving a Special Card also for P/C
School and College is FREE, SAT Scores still Apply to see where you would fit in the Job Market. Also Based on your Interest! you also can return to College to learn more by choice.
The Retired will be giving another P/C special card. The Disabled also will receive another P/C Special Card and Required Equipment…. Everyone would have Medical and Health Care Regulated by the City, State or Province… Everyone Should be a Free Human Being. Everyone will have a place to live! Criminals will still be Treated Accordingly until proving Innocent.
AND Why Can"t we Put Several Giant Solar Panels or Mirrors in Space to Collect Solar Energy From the Sun and Transmit via HAARP the Electrical Impulse to a Relay Station on Earth and then transferred to Several Sub-Power Stations, etc…

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Nami October 14, 2012 at 6:04 am

I would like to add that as far as purchases go with P/C (Points or Credit). It would be Subtracted from your Special Personal Card. When on Vacation any Where Same thing. No matter what you will Receive P/Cs. Its just that when you work you will earn more Points or Credit. Everyone will At least be able to go on One Vacation to any where of their Choice. P/C Should lead to No Starvation. No Taxes of Any Kind. We Can start With The United States by Announcing to the other Nations that The American Green Backs $$$ is no Good outside of the USA and that only the Colourful Money ( Just like War Money), which is only good outside of the USA and well trade One WM $$ for One GB $$ . And we will hold the Green Back Money .. And In the mean time every one in the USA will be earning Points or Credit and Producing More Factories, Products, Research Labs This will Free up the Economy and hardships in the USA… P/C can also be Transferred to our loved ones by a "Will", when we Pass on …. Points and Credit is to basically show ourselves how much we are Worth to ourselves.
Energy (Electricity), Food and Clean Water (Desalinization of Sea Water) Technology should be shared Among Countries.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 14, 2012 at 9:19 am

I heard that in Ancient India they UFO s were called "Vermona's" [....] Go After the Germans in Antarctica… See also Admiral Perry' s Diary (Missing Log) Antarctica "Hollow Earth"."

Citations very, very, very badly needed.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Nami October 20, 2012 at 8:01 am

trying seeing the documentaries Discovery Channel and You tube Documentaries of Old Film Clips…. You have to be very selective about Pictures. Whats Real and Whats Not. I have had 8 years of Still Photography Work. I have done my own research. If you study hard enough, You will find that The Bible Does mention UFO s, and that Dragons did walk with mankind, all life was Created on the Sixth Day! Marco Polo Describes A T-Rex in his Diaries when he went to meet the Emperor of China… Bones, Fossils, etc. are Scattered all over the Surface of this Planet. When you visit the Grand Canyon, you won't find bones of Dinosaurs or Fossils embedded in Layers one on top of the other… They Only teach you that in the United States! So you need to look and open your mind and put all of the bits and pieces of Knowledge together… Actual events turns into Stories that we pass on to our Children. Stories become Fables and Legends, and Legends becomes Myths. Planet Earth Has Died Three Times Believe It or Not. So You should Learn and Believe that The Bible and Science Does Go in Hand with One Another….

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 22, 2012 at 2:27 am

"….trying seeing the documentaries Discovery Channel and You tube Documentaries of Old Film Clips" – Links, please. It's the least you could do.

"You have to be very selective about Pictures. Whats Real and Whats Not." – If you mean "selective" as in "prefers actual evidence" then yes, I am very selective.

"If you study hard enough, You will find that The Bible Does mention UFO s, and that Dragons did walk with mankind, all life was Created on the Sixth Day!" – Sources for that?

"Marco Polo Describes A T-Rex in his Diaries…." – Really? Source?

"So You should Learn and Believe that The Bible and Science Does Go in Hand with One Another" – No. They don't.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

Daniel Surprenant October 15, 2012 at 10:32 am

Just to keep everyone "honest," this was in "wikipedi" long before it was posted here (or anywhere else for that matter. The Avro flying saucer was a disaster from the beginning (poor stability, difficulty with pilot control, powerplant to thrust vectoring etc.). The concept of a saucer type vehicle (see Avro Canada VZ-9 Avrocar), and a flying wing (see Northrop N-1M circa 1940) have long been "declassified. The flying saucer type "military" aircraft had potential, but only as a short range fighter or possible a CAS (Close air Support) vehicle. I could be wrong but the Avro car did not have any supersonic (Mach +) capabilities in the initial concept.

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Freddy October 18, 2012 at 3:52 pm

Yeah, this thing is so secret that it has been on display at the National Museum of the US Air Force near Dayton Ohio for the last 5 or 6 years. I know because I have seen it numerous times. It has also been featured on Discover Channel "WINGS" back in the 1980s.

Oh, and by the way, it never worked out as an airplane, but the technology they got out of it led to the developement of hovercraft, including the Navy's LCACs.

Fred

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 19, 2012 at 2:05 am

"….but the technology they got out of it led to the developement of hovercraft,…."

Not quite. The idea for the hovercraft (or Air Cushion Vehicles), and the initial design efforts, date back to the 1930s.

Christopher Cockerell built several hovercraft models in the 1950s, and the first full-size vehicle, the SR.N1, made its first "flight" in 1959.

While I have no doubt that experiences with the Avro "flying saucer" were used to improve the hovercraft, the development of the hovercraft was well under way when these "saucers" were designed.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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bozo October 19, 2012 at 11:38 am

tell the air force to get the fliying saucers from the skys of michigan they look better

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Arthur October 19, 2012 at 4:17 pm

The OTC X-1 prototype used technology close to the German Vrill, Haunnebu, and Thule built during WW2. Victor Shauberger's centripetal plasma engine, or "Marconi Vortex Dynamo" recently referred to as "Super Fluid Gravity Centrifuge" TR3B Ed Fouche. This did not rely on atmospheric pressure. The information has been thoroughly suppressed to protect the profitability of oil, and to preserve the money system by concentrating control of energy commodity into only a few hands worldwide. (by the central bank)

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 21, 2012 at 1:09 pm

"The information has been thoroughly suppressed to protect the profitability of oil, and to preserve the money system by concentrating control of energy commodity into only a few hands worldwide."

Except this conspiracy didn't do all that good a job on the whole "suppression" thing, did it? I mean, you managed to see right through it….

And of course you can provide evidence in support of all this?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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John Fricks October 29, 2012 at 9:09 pm

I believe the propulsion system was to far advanced for 1950's technology. However the concept remained with promise of actual scientific prospect that vertical takeoff and carrier use could be realized with modifications to program objectives. The early scientific knowledge coupled with newer computer technology is a sure ringer that we are doing the same thing today towards duplicating the Roswell findings to further own defense and space capabilities.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 30, 2012 at 2:43 am

"….a sure ringer that we are doing the same thing today towards duplicating the Roswell findings to further own defense and space capabilities."

"the Roswell findings" – you mean that Project Mogul balloon? Those have been duplicated for years both before and after Roswell.

"….to further own defense and space capabilities" – The Avro project has no "space capability". It's jet powered.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Scott W. December 20, 2012 at 12:46 pm

Delivered it to the AF Museum (Restoration Hangar) in Dayton, OH on Oct 27, 2007. Have a great picture of our loadmasters loading it onto our C-5.

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sex March 26, 2013 at 4:45 am
movers in Houston April 20, 2013 at 1:48 am
darryl July 4, 2013 at 10:25 pm

we have this technology more advanced then anyone leaving earth atmosphere going to the moon and back we dont need alien technology we have our own technology german gave us

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Phillip I Wink November 15, 2013 at 9:13 pm
Ernest DIzon January 17, 2014 at 10:40 am

The united States has the most advance flying sauser in the world,because it can afford it,money is the secret to their flying sauser projects,to bribe and pamper the ex-Nazi scientist,and in return?the nazi scientist gave all they got in terms of technical Layouts,from the very innards of the flying sauser to the outer skin coverings of their sauser,which is covered by titanium sheet metal,the flying sauser cannotbe shotdown,because it has counter magnetic shield of extreme high votages,and thats why the crew of six?wear anti-radiation suits to protect themself!,from the inside out high voltages of up to 50,0000thousand volts,to power this wonder craft through "Electrodes hidden under the titanium skin of the flying sauser,there are no moving parts;except for a small atomic reactor to give the necessary electricity needed,and the pellets are renewable every three years,a very economical terms.

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HR October 10, 2012 at 6:42 pm

I still remember getting under my desk at school thinking *** is this going to serve

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HR October 10, 2012 at 6:44 pm

I still remember getting under my desk at school thinking *** is this going to serve

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michaelzwilliamson October 10, 2012 at 7:15 pm

And did anyone get a photo of this alleged aircraft?

Oh, right. They didn't.

But if I don't trust the word of the government, why should I instead trust the word of some anonymous internet retard?

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:00 am

Please note that I never claimed that ALL sightings were explainable. Quite the opposite in fact (also don't forget the possibility of a deliberate hoax).

As for the story you describe, well, if the governor of Arizona hisself saw it, then surely there are all sorts of news articles, pictures, videos etc. you can link to, right?

"You may be a skeptic if you want to…." – If by "sceptic" you mean someone who prefers actual evidence, then yes. I definitely want to be a sceptic.

"….is that these are not true aliens, but descendants of the Nephalim (Genesis 6). In any case, pretending that this isn't real is becoming less and less credible with every passing year" – OK, so they're no aliens, but biblical creatures? Seriously? And your "overwhelming evidence" is what exactly? And how does your amusing belief that UFOs are nephalim make it less and less credible that UFOs aren't real? As a "sceptic", I'd say it was the other way around.

Try again.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Art Frailey October 10, 2012 at 8:23 pm

Not so ! read my above post !

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 2:15 am

"Check out Vril Disc on the internet….." – You do know that those "actual photos and blueprints" are, well, complete and utter fakes, right?

"….the US took a large group of scientists into custody to continue their work in South America" – Hang on, the US encouraged/kidnapped German scientists to work for them after the war, and they put them in South America? Are you sure it wasn't Roswell or Area 51 or somewhere like that?

"As a retired USAF member I saw a lot of different type of aircraft and a lot of so called F-117 and B-2 bombers before the public did…." – good for you. How does this bolster you argument (and I use that word loosely)?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm

"Fact is, these were flying in 1970, without using combustion or turbine engines for a power source" – Source badly needed.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Max October 12, 2012 at 12:00 am

It is impractical to give a book-length reply to all of your points. I only expressed my own belief and left it at that. You cannot realistically expect a book-length reply in this forum. However, I suggest you listen to Chuck Missler's series of videos on youtube. He does an excellent job explaining the Nephalim viewpoint.

As for ufos in general, I suggest you watch the "Disclosure Project" video on youtube, which was recorded at a meeting of the National Press Club on May 9, 2001. At this meeting, there were many ex-military officers and high ranking ex-government officials who testified to what they saw and heard first-hand. They risked a great deal by taking the stand they did, and they were very, very credible.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 2:02 am

"All of my points"? I made [counts on fingers] 3 points:

1) Where are the news articles, pictures, videos etc. of the UFO seen by the governor of Arizona?
2) What is your "overwhelming evidence" for UFOs being Nephilim (note spelling!)?
and
3) How does your belief that UFOs are Nephilim make it less and less credible that UFOs aren't real?

These hardly require a "book-length" reply, and if the evidence is as overwhelming as you claim, you should be able to do better than just "look at YouTube – It's all there".

And Chuck Missler? The same Chuck Missler who tried to use a jar of peanut butter to disprove evolution? That Chuck Missler?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Max October 12, 2012 at 8:36 am

I notice you never mentioned the Disclosure video; and dismissing Chuck Missler is a mistake, a big one. Closing your eyes and hoping for the best isn't going to make the truth go away.

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 10:14 am

"I notice you never mentioned the Disclosure video…."
Well done.

"….dismissing Chuck Missler is a mistake….".
Please answer the question put to you: Is he the same Chuck Missler that tried to "disprove" evolution using a jar of peanut butter? Yes or no.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm

"I have no idea whether he did that or not…."
Please google "Chuck Missler".

"….but if he did, I'm sure it was for a good reason"
Please name one good reason for trying to disprove evolution using a jar of peanut butter.

"He is also a Christian layperson, with a high-profile ministry that is well respected and well known"
Well respected by whom? If we are indeed talking about the same Chuck Missler, he's deserving of zero respect as far as I am concerned.

"Well done" simply means "well done" for noticing that I didn't comment on the Disclosure video. And why should I have to explain anything. You're the one making the claims.

"….at least a few with very high Security clearances…."
Names and job positions please.

"all took a public stand for their belief…."
Belief. Exactly! Some evidence would have been nice.

"Do you seriously believe that these very credible witnesses would risk their careers and reputations over a lie?"
I'm entirely prepared to accept that these 400 people (some with "very high security clearances". Wow!) actually, sincerely believe what they claim is true. But unfortunately, sincerity does not equal evidence.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Max October 12, 2012 at 7:02 pm

Dodge and weave. whatever

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Thomas L. Nielsen October 13, 2012 at 5:31 am

Okay, Max

First of all, what is it I am supposed to have "dodged and weaved"? If it's still about that Disclosure video, the least you could do was post a link (you know, a link, like this: http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/67355-peanut-butter-….

And speaking of dodging and weaving: When I asked you if the Chuck Missler you use as a source is the same well-known (for all the wrong reasons) Chuck Missler who tried to disprove Evolution using a jar of peanut butter, you replied "I have no idea whether he did that or not, but if he did, I'm sure it was for a good reason".
And I'm the one dodging and weaving? Try googling the words "pot", "kettle"and "black".

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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