Home » Air » China flies newest stealth fighter

China flies newest stealth fighter

by Mike Hoffman on November 1, 2012

Photos of China’s latest stealth fighter, the J-31, started appearing across aviation blogs in early October. Then reports surfaced that the J-31, built by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, completed its first test flight Wednesday morning in northeastern China.

The J-31 executed the test flight escorted by a J-11 Chinese fighter if the photos from the event are to be believed. The Chinese government has yet to put out an official statement confirming the test. Chinese military officials have kept most details about their stealth aviation program tight lipped.

(Video after the jump)

J-31 photos indicate the fighter is significantly smaller than the J-20 — the other stealth fighter the Chinese unveiled. Aviation experts have speculated the J-31 could be used more so as an interceptor or a carrier-based aircraft. Thus, the J-20 would be used as a strike aircraft targeting ships and ground targets as it could hold more missiles.

The designs of the J-31, based on a survey of the leaked photos, indicate Chinese engineers have done their homework on the F-22 and F-35 built by Lockheed Martin. Chinese officials have said they did not steal any stealth designs from the U.S. but the similarities between the J-31 and the F-22 and F-35 are pretty telling.

The video posted below is a compilation of the photos of the J-31 that have leaked thus far. The film tries to give the impression that the plane is flying in slow motion, but that was just  some handy editing skills by the person who created the video.

(mobile users please kick here for the video)

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{ 186 comments… read them below or add one }

brok3n November 1, 2012 at 2:28 pm

"Chinese military officials have kept most details about their stealth aviation program tight lipped."

Something we have yet to do in the West to protect our own programs.

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Citizen of the world November 1, 2012 at 5:06 pm

Yeah, first thing we’d need to do is ban sites covering defense technology.

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Matt November 1, 2012 at 5:43 pm

Or provide access to many other nations, tens – hundreds of thousands of "citizens of the world" can download classified information on the f35 and send it to China. How many nations are involved again?

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justsayin November 1, 2012 at 10:07 pm

You make it sound like it's as easy as downloading music. Hacking goes both ways.

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Matt November 2, 2012 at 9:11 am

It is a easy as downloading music. I have read about it. So and so worker at so and so components in Australia logs in and downloads the files. Bam.

Guest November 2, 2012 at 12:56 am

Theres a reason why some programs are public, its to keep attention away from the more important projects

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ken November 3, 2012 at 7:57 pm

We don't have to be tight lipped we let them walk right out the front door with the info.

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Lance November 1, 2012 at 2:41 pm

Looks like a Chinese knock off of the JSF F-35. Overall since there Stealth tech is only gen one now, new ASEA radars may still track a plane more ASEA radars are needed for upgraded to F-15 and F-22 fleets.

As of DoD report China is 5-8 years away from fielding such planes.

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So? November 1, 2012 at 6:48 pm

I have two words for you: "radar equation".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar#Radar_equation

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justsayin November 1, 2012 at 10:08 pm

Their, not there. Read more son.

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Stratege November 6, 2012 at 4:26 am

How you determined that it's "only gen one stealth"?

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Sepel November 1, 2012 at 2:44 pm

Looks like the child from a F-22/F-35 love affair.

But still, it show's that the Chinese are rather rapidly progressing. Not even two decades ago i thought i would never see a Chinese (or even more) carrier or such advanced aircraft. Im curious what we will see in the next decades to come.

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Sev November 2, 2012 at 8:16 am

Depends on what the US makes. The Chinese copy our tech

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Menzie November 2, 2012 at 2:24 pm

On the whole I would agree with you but this seems like a fall back position whne something may start to compete with us. Jus thow many shapes are stealthy and fly well? It seems to me if you watch the pbs nova special on the f35 design it was designed mostly by computer so that being said is a stealth shape optimally similar to the f22 f35? If so then the Chinese copied nothing.

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citanon November 5, 2012 at 6:57 pm

That's the good part. I'd start worrying if one day they no longer feel any need to copy.

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Common Sense November 2, 2012 at 4:32 pm

Who even says that China will still be intact politically!! What always looks threatening on the outside often is hollow on the inside. The world thought Sadam Hussein's army was beast to be dealt with….guess what, that army was defeated in 96 hours! China has issues….domestically and politically. People better start peeling back the onion to see the core…..

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krypton November 17, 2012 at 9:35 pm

You still haven't really seen a chinese carrier. That one was bought from the Russians. It probably took them two years to clean out the borscht and vomit stains.

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MckGyver November 1, 2012 at 3:17 pm

Hmm, I recognize that design…can anyone tell me from where?

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Ottar November 2, 2012 at 2:30 pm

Looks like a copy of some newly tested Russian plane.

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V.A. November 5, 2012 at 4:03 am

This picture was leaked to the internet over a year ago. Maybe you happened to see it?
http://i.minus.com/iIr9BBv72vhpw.jpg

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krypton November 17, 2012 at 12:34 am

Yeah, like nothing so much as a twin-engine F35. The real question is how much of the external skin is JUST a skin.

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:22 pm

I saw it at my local HobbyTown store.

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Dougie Quick January 4, 2013 at 11:41 pm

Is that the same "curious" one might have over recently diagnosed malignant tumors located in various untreatable locations of his/her anatomy? … As in "I am just really curious to understand how likely I am to survive much longer."

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Big-Dean November 1, 2012 at 3:35 pm

Ok, the defense industries are either completely stupid when it comes to information security or they are letting this stuff "leak" out on purpose.

But I don't believe the former… :-{

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Common Sense November 2, 2012 at 4:37 pm

How do you know that's the issue??? Has that aircraft been used to push china's regional hegemony???? If not, then why??? Better start asking some basic questions before making unfounded assumptions….

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citanon November 5, 2012 at 6:59 pm

It's impossible to protect the shape of an aircraft that shows up at air shows around the world and in company videos on Youtube. It's the inside that's important, and in this case we have no idea what's underneath that familiar looking skin.

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krypton November 17, 2012 at 9:39 pm

Based on other information technology news, the idiots at LM were probably selling a video game they developed with F35 avatars in Microsoft FS, with backstories about "how we integrated the technology".

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MegopeepeeinyourCoke November 1, 2012 at 3:53 pm

Maybe we can steal their design back and learn to make ours less expensive ;)

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Paul November 2, 2012 at 10:25 pm

Ours is more expensive because of the R and D already invested into it, Gomer Pyle.

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Paul November 2, 2012 at 10:32 pm

…and Gomer, it's no stretch in common sense to realize that it's roughly R&D divided by number of planes produced would have to equal an exuberant cost per plane.

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Chris November 1, 2012 at 3:55 pm

Well, if the electronics are as good as the ones that have been in my cars, that were made in China, we have no problem. BTW, China financed these with the profits from their crap they sel at Wal-Mart.

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blight_ November 1, 2012 at 5:00 pm

If you're in America, chances are your car was not assembled in China.

Koreans will build their cars back home or in the US.

Japanese companies will build them in Japan or here.

Americans will build them in Canada, Mexico or the United States.

Europeans may build them here in the US, or across the pond.

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Good2ride November 5, 2012 at 4:27 pm

Right on Chris, that's why I shop at Wal-Mart's cousin store, " Hole N Da' Wal !!! Hahaha, Wally-Mart will probably be selling the J-20 / 31 models for Christmas ??!!

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k parks November 1, 2012 at 4:19 pm

Thank you Bill Clinton for giving them all our computer technology,you are ONE swell cigar smoking guy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Mike Force November 4, 2012 at 9:57 pm

Remember the Republican house and Senate signed off on it.

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Matt November 5, 2012 at 11:22 am

I dont "remember" that part… please provide links or other supporting information.

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 1:15 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708

Is the semi-partial summary of what led up to what some call "Loralgate" and others call something-or-other that had to do with Bill Clinton. /eyeroll

And
http://www.house.gov/coxreport/body/ch6bod.html

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Nadnerbus November 1, 2012 at 4:30 pm

If they can build them for less then one hundred billion million trillion dollars, maybe we should buy some.

I would be seriously interested in seeing a capabilities sum up for this aircraft and the JSF, along with price totals for each. JSF will probably be much more capable, but man…

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Sev November 2, 2012 at 8:17 am

Of course it's cheaper. We paid for the R&D! They stole the tech from us. Hacking computers at Lockheed and stealing F35 files

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Krypto November 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm

Don't worry folks, in the end the china and the men in power will suffer from the same greed and corruption that plagues our industry. And who knows perhaps infor was leaked on purpose, just to justify the next gazillion dollar super weapon.

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sven morgenstern November 16, 2012 at 4:28 pm

They already do!

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brok3n November 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm

I find it interesting that the Chinese decided to unveil its fighter on a largely American holiday, Halloween.. I guess its plane decided to dress up as an F-35/22 baby?

I wonder.. if we stopped developing weapons, would their industry collapse?

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Guest November 2, 2012 at 9:43 pm

and it's called the J-31 – J is the 10th letter of the alphabet, and 10/31 is halloween. coincidence?

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Jakarta November 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm

Makes me wonder, are we going to see a knock off B2 bomber like soonish?

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blight_ November 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm

Seems only the US and the Russians maintain strategic bombers.

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Jakarta November 1, 2012 at 5:15 pm

In other words, China is very much more leaning towards "dirty" weaponry to hack off the advanced tech of the US/Russ, like the recent “assassin’s mace” geo-strategy.

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justsaying November 1, 2012 at 10:37 pm

Dirty weaponry? What does that even mean? It sounds like nothing more than meaningless buzz words.

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tee November 1, 2012 at 5:23 pm

With GE getting ready to build a new engine plant in China, they will soon have good engines for their J-31's,J-20's and J-15's,J-11's & J-10's. Wait, wasn't Gates who said the US had a 20 year lead in Technology and cancelled the F-22. China will probably be flying their J-31's off their carrier before we can get the Junk Strike Fighter off ours. SAD, very SAD

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Jim November 7, 2012 at 1:34 pm

Not only do they copy our designs, but we train their engineers and factory workers.

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blight_ November 7, 2012 at 2:24 pm

I'm digging through GE's notes.

As far as I can tell much of the turbine work is GE Energy building wind turbines and gas turbines for the power industry.

Additionally, the jet engine venture is CFM, which is GE and another company.
http://www.gereports.com/ge-jet-engine-joint-vent

More up to date note:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-04/27/

Engine in question:
http://www.geaviation.com/engines/commercial/genx

If it's the genx, the only production plant I can find is in Durham, NC.

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JE McKellar November 1, 2012 at 5:46 pm

Does their tailhook work?

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Nadnerbus November 2, 2012 at 12:53 am

I loled. When they conduct carrier trials and it bolters repeatedly, we will have a little better idea of whether the tech was stolen or not…

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Chimp November 2, 2012 at 1:24 am

That's actually a good question. The J-31 has a twin nosewheel… best reason I can think of for that is CATOBAR carrier operations.

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Chris November 1, 2012 at 6:45 pm

Hey Blight, I said the electronics. I did not say the car was assembled in China. Check all your wiring harnesses, and other electronics. "Made in China." BTW, the final assembly maybe the U.S. but the majority of the components are mad overseas. My CTS's engine was made in Mexico and the transmission in France.

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blight_ November 1, 2012 at 7:10 pm

Only because NAFTA makes it cheaper to do final assembly in Mexico than to ship a car from the People's Republic. Call it a matter of time.

Re the electronics, they are building to the specs provided by foreigners, who are either approving the purchase of cheapo parts at the expense of American suppliers or even going far enough to supply technical information or bootstrap their manufacturing with imported equipment.

It won't be long before Chinese startups build Chinese products that people over here go "hey, interesting…"

Though chances are, it'll be the military hardware that outpaces the civilian.

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Guest November 2, 2012 at 9:37 pm

my subaru is the same. final assembly was in indiana, but many of the engine components were made in japan (some of them even have labels written only in japanese)

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So? November 1, 2012 at 6:58 pm

Looks like an F-35 minus the VTOL handicap (single engine -> wonky side bays, must fit in LHD lift -> small "quart in a pint" design). Now it's a matter of execution. Something tells me that even with the VTOL compromise, the F-35 will be better, but not by the margin the rah-rah brigade thinks.

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Anon e. Mouse November 1, 2012 at 8:18 pm

STOVL. You mean STOVL…. and apparently you have no idea how the B model lift system (which is placed where a fuel tank in the A model sits) works.

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So? November 1, 2012 at 10:50 pm

Yes, that's what I meant (got my acronyms wrong), and yes the lift fan is the reason for the single fat F135, which is the reason for the awkward side bays and tubby fuselage. LM is not at fault here. They are delivering exactly what was asked for: a chimera.

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Speedy November 1, 2012 at 7:32 pm

Before you complain about stuff made in China, look at your own house and shed. How much of the items you own are made in your country?

China will become "democratic" when their people want it. I heard a report a few years ago saying some economists suggest this will happen in the next few years (decade or so). IF America is still friendly towards China, they will become a great allie.

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Ron November 1, 2012 at 8:28 pm

China an Allie , I can tell you don't know how Asian's think, Al Qaida and Taliban will be our allies before that happens!!!

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justsaying November 1, 2012 at 10:12 pm

I was talking to some Asian guys, and they all told me a commentator on defensetech named Ron was a flaming asshole.

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Hale November 2, 2012 at 2:19 pm

Taliban were our allies a while back when the Soviets were still around…

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Rio Lobo November 1, 2012 at 7:50 pm

What did you expect? Think the Chinese have any of their own ideas? Hell no… Every fricken country out there loves to steal our technology. What I don't understand is we have the technology to keep our secrets off the internet waves by creating our own system that bypasses the internet completely, so as to keep all our technology closely guarded and un-hackable… Come on DoD. What's up with that?

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cs4 November 8, 2012 at 5:01 am

Don't you feel proud that your country has something worth stealing?

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The great Jessmo November 1, 2012 at 8:57 pm

What engine will this thing use? How advanced are the chinese in AESA tech?

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justsaying November 1, 2012 at 10:14 pm

They're split testing a Russian engine and the WS-13. The plan is to eventually use all Chinese engines. Same as the J-20. WS-10 vs a Russian engine.

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So? November 1, 2012 at 10:56 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33#RD-93
RD-93 – a variant of RD-33. (F404 class). Perhaps China buying a boatload of those engines for the JF-17 was a ruse.

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Guest November 1, 2012 at 9:46 pm

um except it did make it into space (unmanned) and was cancelled because of that little event called the collapse of the Soviet Union. Google is a wonderful tool.

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Prodozul November 1, 2012 at 9:53 pm

Not to mention it was destroyed when the warehouse it was stored in collapsed.

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Dfens November 1, 2012 at 10:17 pm

We had 20+ years of development between the F-22 and the F-35. It's funny how it didn't take China 20 years between their latest aircraft. Then again, Communist countries don't pay "for profit" companies more to drag out development. Apparently they think more highly of Capitalist principles than we do.

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LtKitty November 2, 2012 at 12:00 am

Are… are you serious? Because maybe they bypassed those 20+ years of R&D by… oh, I donno… stealing our tech?

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Dfens November 2, 2012 at 8:05 am

Yeah, that's why the F-22 took so long. It was all that technology we were developing. First we had to invent composites, then we invented radar, next was the invention of stealth… Hell yeah, it wore me out inventing all that technology.

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LtKitty November 2, 2012 at 8:20 am

And before that we invented fire and the wheel :P

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Dfens November 2, 2012 at 10:21 am

No, I'm pretty sure that was done during F-22 development too. We had to develop the wheel before the airplane could have landing gear. It's not like we just f'ed around for 20 years. Well, not exactly like that.

blight_ November 2, 2012 at 11:39 am

Orville Wright started F-22 wind tunnel testing in his bicycle shop…

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Dfens November 4, 2012 at 11:40 pm

No doubt! The only other place I've seen so much bs was space station. We f around to make the dic kless CEO's of these aerospace companies rich while they f us, f you, f their country, f our brave soldiers, f our allies. I hope burning in hell is worth it.

BlackOwl18E November 1, 2012 at 10:48 pm

If this J-31 reaches IOC in China before the F-35 does in America I think all our services should sue Lockheed Martin for sucking at life.

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joe November 2, 2012 at 5:25 am

Possibly the DoD should request a quote to build them under license.
It'd be worth it to see some people's faces.

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Carl Gulde November 11, 2012 at 5:29 pm

It's not Lockheed's fault, just as the falsely distorted price of the F-22 is not their fault. It's the current admin's fault (mostly, starting under sec def Gates in the last admin) for deliberately mismanaging the program, refusing to use multi yr contracting (which is how Reagan rebuilt the military after Carter's neglect), to justify reducing the numbers and capabilities. Killing the alternate engine resulted in just that, as well as increased costs and decreased performance due to the lack of competition. When I worked at Lockheed 84-88 on the successful C-5B program, the 50 came in ahead of schedule and below cost. The Dept of the AF punished Lockheed by fining them for making too much profit on a program that was a bargain to begin with. Lockheed is the last to be blamed.

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boswell November 1, 2012 at 11:34 pm

It looks like a duck, but can it swim or quack like a duck? We don't know that yet. I'll wait and see.

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jon November 2, 2012 at 12:01 am

Dont worry guys. This thing looks impressive but our pilot asphyxiation technology is decades ahead of theirs

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Carl Gulde November 2, 2012 at 12:52 am

It was revealed a few mos ago (without comment by the media) that China had pilfered most of our military tech via hacking, especially our stealth stuff. It looks like an F-35 for obvious reasons; They don't need to develop this technology, they can steal it because our security is non existent, or just buy it (J-11 from Russia, Lavi from Isreal etc) . After all, Biden said in his debate that we don't need a front line military with heavy weapons, and we only need a few special ops guys. It's the typical anti-military mindset of the left that has resulted in this.

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:26 pm

Riiiight, because a few billion dollar aircraft carriers and strategic bombers would have prevented the Chinese from hacking our secrets.

It's the idiocy of the far-right neocons that weaken our national security.

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LearntoRead November 8, 2012 at 1:23 pm

I didn't see in Carl's post that aircraft carriers and strategic bombers would have prevented the hacking. I believe the comment is "our security is non exstent". Which seems to be true since they are successfully hacking our systems and then producing items that look nearly identical.

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Carl Gulde November 11, 2012 at 5:22 pm

thank you for proving my point about the left wing Jimmy Carter naivete about defense issues. Only Democrats and liberals can equate the deliberately inflated and distorted price (by their policies) of carriers and B-2s to the total lack of security concerning our technology. Thanks again.

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Chris November 2, 2012 at 2:39 am

I sense that comparing it to the Raptor may be a little premature. It is hard to determine its scale without images of the plane on the ground, but it appears smaller than the Flanker (J-11) chase plane. So, that together with how compact the wing configuration appear to be may suggest it is more to fill a role that of the F-18 and/or Fulcrum D; a mid-sized multirole. To my eye it looks more like a small F-15 with the sculpted nose and intakes of the F-35, but so far without evidence of thrust vectoring and certainly without stealth geometry having been applied to the rear of the aircraft… perhaps in the spirit of the PAK-FA, sacrificing some stealth for agility (or production given limited resources and experience.)

For me the big questions are engines, sensors and weapon capacity. Depending on size it may or may not have the internal stores to remain stealthy on approach and carry the fight through. And of course without considerable improvements in IR/RADAR/ECM over previous known iterations for China's aircraft the geometry may make for quite limited improvements. To be honest I don't know that it can be called a stealth aircraft outside of the nose and intake shape. The J-20 appears to be a more interesting design in that its configuration suggests it could be used to threaten carriers. So far the J-31 is just a twin engined fighter that happens to be painted black.

Lastly, although I appreciate everything is politics, building expensive stealth aircraft is not a viable solution for a country the size of China. To cover the entire country they will have to build hundreds more, and refit them to keep pace with counter advances and intelligence. To build them for a single carrier, or 3 or 5 just ensures a few SSN skippers easy pickings. We can be certain this aircraft will make for equally impressive photo ops when it is sliding into the ocean off of a shattered, burning deck.

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Andrew November 2, 2012 at 7:15 pm

I wish everything I read here was this good.

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Chimp November 6, 2012 at 4:51 am

"The J-20 appears to be a more interesting design in that its configuration suggests it could be used to threaten carriers."

The idea that the J-20 is "huge" and "unmanoeuverable" is clearly flawed. It is *shorter* than a Flanker, and generally speaking no more "massive". It has been observed performing extremely high rate manoeuvres, which is in line with what you'd expect from a plane with canards and a really big delta wing. It's an air superiority fighter with limited LO characteristics, advanced avionics and extreme agility. The manufacturer of the J-20 is known for agile fighters. Their other product, the J-10, regularly beats down Flankers (local and Russian built) in aggressor events (particularly the so called "Golden Helmet" competition).

The much discussed "anti-carrier" mission isn't the PLAAF's business. It's handled by the PLANAF, which currently uses H6's firing ASM's, possibly a ballistic weapon (though I question the effectiveness of that idea, for a bunch of reasons) and later on some land based J-16's and carrier based J-15's. The PLAN also presumably fancies its latest AIP subs.

The J-31 appears to be a private venture that the PLAAF, or the PLANAF, may eventually be interested in. I bet it's also being built with an eye to export (Pakistan, for instance).

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Carl Gulde November 11, 2012 at 5:38 pm

Chris makes alot of sense and knows a good bit about this subject, unlike the more liberal commentaries that sound like Whoopie Goldberg on "the View". But we must keep in mind that to see them sliding off of burning decks (well articulated-I enjoyed that), we have to have the forces to do it, and a single carrier battle group with two escorts (that can't even afford to put Phanlanx or Ram CIWS on many of the Burke class escorts) may have trouble doing that w/o long range intercept ability (cough-F-14s-cough). Thanx for your post though Chris.

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duuude November 2, 2012 at 5:24 am

The Chinese could very well be laughing their asses off at Uncle Sam if F-22 and F-35 were actually full of made-in-China components. Ask Lockheed Martin to confirm.

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Tribulationtime November 2, 2012 at 5:33 am

Chris have a good overall view. If the question is (the biggest one): How would this plane perform in a white hot war with China?. The short answer is: China loses!!. Other question is: How the Dragoon is dangerous? answer: He has one more teeth each day. From a whole earth picture China strategic position is the same!! than Germany, Japan and CCCP. No win situation. China is locked in his own courtyard!!. Let´s figure it:

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duuude November 2, 2012 at 1:49 pm

English, Mother Fucker! Do you speak it???

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Tribulationtime November 3, 2012 at 2:08 pm

I ´m begining to belive what I not welcomed here

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 2:59 pm

Only because you can't type for shit, mate. Seriously, check over your comments before you post,. You obviously have some grasp of the English language, so why don't you just try a little harder?

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Matrix3692 November 3, 2012 at 8:08 pm

seriously, i can’t understand what point you are trying to present in your post.

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Matt November 5, 2012 at 11:25 am

I had no problem understanding your post and I enjoy reading your perspectives. Only simpletons would degrade a person's communication skills when that person is actively trying to have a meaningful conversation. And again, only a simpleton could not have easily deciphered your original text.

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm

There's an upper limit to where our attempts to interpret someone's posts result in us "filling in the blanks", at which point the question is whether or not the parts we fill in are what we want to hear or what the poster meant.

I think the first sentence is perfectly sensible. The idioms are a little strange, since in the west dragons do not regenerate teeth, but hydras gain heads for every one chopped off. "China is locked in its own courtyard" could be interpreted as meaning China doesn't have what people call "force projection" capability, limiting them to local projection (the "locked in courtyard"). I think it's a fairly objective translation, but who knows, Trib may have meant something else!

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kissmybums November 2, 2012 at 6:20 am

China will likely surprised everybody with a launch of their own jet engine just when the USA least expect it. Yeah the Americans always underate China.

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TonyC November 2, 2012 at 8:05 am

The Chinese will copy any design they can get information about. They copied the Russian fighters in the past, to include known defects in the Russian designs.
They probably don't have the materials technology (yet) to build a true stealth aircraft, but they are doing the leg work torwards a true stealth aircraft. The US Air Force is a stealth enthusiast and as with any new technology, it is only a matter of time before a countermeasure is developed. The best approach will be to build cheap drones in large numbers to confuse an enemy air defense system and then send in a stealth bommber to blast holes in the enemy air defense system. That limits teh number of required stealth assets and if countermeasures are in place, limits their effectiveness.

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Tiger November 2, 2012 at 7:59 pm

And we know what we know today based on stuff stolen from Germany in 1945.

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Nicky November 2, 2012 at 8:23 am

So how fast can anyone bet that China will export and sell Fighters like that to a third world Air force.

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jet November 2, 2012 at 10:05 am

Don’t you mean a country that has been kept a third world?

Why shouldn’t it export to third world countries?

Where is that free market spirit?

****

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Nicky November 2, 2012 at 12:34 pm

Who knows Third world countries could one day operate Chinese made Aircraft and ships. China's willing to sell their hardware on the cheap to third world countries.

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm

They already do. Loads of them. Especially in small arms and vehicles.

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blight_ November 2, 2012 at 1:26 pm

Which countries are being kept third world? China certainly isn't being /kept/ third world. We did not keep Afghanistan in the third world: comically, the US and the USSR pumped money into Afghanistan for decades, during the peaceful years. It was not want of money that plunged the post-King Afghanistan into hell.

It's a general axiom that people who want to rise to the top don't always have selfless motives at hand. For every selfless soul like George Washington, there was another grafty President like Grant

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matheusdiasuk November 2, 2012 at 8:52 am

Russia is US geopolitical enemy level 1. China? whatever, whatever

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Seeking November 2, 2012 at 9:20 am

If you don't have the right stuff, fake it.

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jet November 2, 2012 at 9:55 am

China doesn’t really need to steal tech that it can come up with by itself. You can derive an algorithm from a full scale model using radar… like in some top secret Gobi facility. Metallurgy and composites can be exploited using the reflective/absorption qualities inherent in known materials and allow development of new materials. China has been doing this for decades in a pointed counter to enemy regimes.

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curious bob November 2, 2012 at 11:59 am

just curious and kinda off topic but as far as radar goes why havent we started to try and procure a radar that doesnt look for return signals but looks instead where signals are not. i.e. where an airplane, boat, etc. would be.

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Rational Rob November 2, 2012 at 12:30 pm

Curious Bob, have you ever researched how radar works?

Do you know what kind of infrastructure a radar like that would require?

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blight_ November 2, 2012 at 1:28 pm

Stealth is not a cloaking device. It's just holistic design of aircraft that intends to lower the radar cross section of an aircraft such that it's difficult to detect.

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Jim November 2, 2012 at 1:12 pm

Well of course it looks very similar to the F-22/F-35. They got probably all their "notes" from those two programs. Our Country's leaders are doing all this for our enemies and for our not so trustworthy "friends" like the Chinese. They can deny it all day long, but simple fact is that we no longer have things like "COMSEC", or any other forms of security regarding our military capabilities; because our leaders want to put everything out front for so-called transparency. Remember, back in the days of WWII, there was a often stated axiom "Loose Lips Sink Ships". Now-a-days, it should "Loose Lips KILL Aircraft, Ships and all forms of Ground personnel and their equipment".

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Tim UK November 2, 2012 at 1:35 pm

Ok so we know Lockheed are the biggest cut purses out there, but how come the Chinese and Russians/Indians seem to bale to build 5th gen fighters for a tenth of the money ?

It doesn't add up because these are in no way even on a level with the Euro Fighter.

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Taylor November 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm

I don't even think they have to hack us to get the info. Engineers and scientists publish all the latest research we fund to the internet. And we pay Chinese researchers to do the research. Then they might get the rest from the Freedom Of Information Act and magazines publishing that latest stuff. The best way to get classified information? Hire journalists to dig up the info and then publish it. Can't go to jail for that.

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jet November 2, 2012 at 3:30 pm

The most obvious conclusion is that they developed it themselves…

Considering that the j10b has a comparable RCS to the Eurofighter, it shouldn’t be beyond SAC to develop something better than the failed JSF.

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JE McKellar November 2, 2012 at 5:40 pm

I just put on my tin-foil thinking cap for a moment, and I wonder whether or not this plane is a result of an Israeli-Chinese partnership, much like that of the LAVI/J-10 program.

In realpolitik terms, the IDF must realize that they need a 5th-generation fighter a lot more than the US does, as their oil-producing neighbors can eventually buy new Russian aircraft. Fearful that the JSF program might get the axe, they hedge their bets by secretly developing their own plane with the Chinese. Doing it all in China means the US can't pressure the Israelis to cancel the project like they did with the LAVI.

Espionage might solely account for the resemblance, but it could also be that this plane was actually designed to do exactly what the F-35A is supposed to do: replace the F-16 as a short-range strike fighter.

Tinfoil hat off.

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 3:05 pm

Just don't put on the tinfoil hat. Most here already have tinfoil skulls, no need for anymore of that.

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Durin November 2, 2012 at 5:49 pm

China is truely going AHEAD of US and F35, in next few years wi will see them having squadrons of new aircraft operating and US still testing oxygen/tail hook/whatever on F35

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jet November 2, 2012 at 9:11 pm

That’s more a rumour since there is a chronology of development from the f7 and j9 to suggest there was an evolution to the j10. They have been playing with configurations that seem to have matured in the j10. They love their deltas.

China has an economic stake in Iran, so although they could help the Israeli’s, they might not want them to have something that would allow a first strike ability in some heavy IADS like a nuclear reactor in Iran. The Israeli’s would also deeply offend the USA who aid them the most. The USA doesn’t want them to have the f22.

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JE McKellar November 2, 2012 at 9:50 pm

Politics makes for strange bedfellows. China's strategic goals are access to petroleum and development in Africa, for which they've developed a strong relationship with Pakistan. Israel, until the Arab Spring, was dependent on a US-backed alliance with Egypt and Saudi Arabia to keep things stable in the Middle East. The Iran rumblings are probably more for the benefit of the Saudis, who need to keep Iran in check, but can't openly attack another Muslim county (or risk a Shia-Sunni conflict). Regardless, the real issue is the petrodollar, whether Iran's oil exports will either prop up the USD or erode it's value. China wins either way, since they have more USD than they know what to do with, or would be first in line for a central Asian pipeline that bypasses the usual markets.

As for the LAVI and tech transfer, I think it's obvious that while the Chinese are fully competent to build their own aircraft, they're also wise enough to take advantage of any foreign help offered to them. Israeli-Chinese cooperation makes sense for geopolitical reasons, too, as they're too far apart to have any direct conflicts, but can triangulate together to manage their respective relationships with the US.

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jet November 2, 2012 at 9:15 pm

Previous post was for JE McKeller…

With tinfoil hat. :P

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jet November 2, 2012 at 11:27 pm

Egypt and China have strengthed ties in the wake of the Arab Spring, Morsi making a first call on them and I hear they are interested in CAC/PAC’s jf17, so it looks like the US-Egypt relationship has changed to Chinas advantage. Israel will not be happy.

If Israel had helped in any meaningful sense with the j10 they would had to have kept it secret or risk a stern talking to from the US like when the Phalcon radar was to be sold to China. Tech transfers would not be an issue if not for the 1989 Tiananmen square incident (refuted by wikileaks cables), but it might have been the arms embargo that they wanted due to the forecast of the Chinese economy’s performance post reforms (1978?).
Currently, the US has oversight on any military sales that Israel makes with China.

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JE McKellar November 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm

I don't think China is terribly eager to replace the USSR as the 1st world's default antagonist. They might be happy to make a quick buck selling arms to Egypt, but as long as no one's supporting the Islamism-ization of Xinjiang, ideology doesn't matter. They should be willing to do business with Israel as well, and a smart Israeli foreign office would try to build up enough good will with China to keep them from upsetting the balance of power. I don't think Israel takes US protection for granted, they know they need to be prepared to handle things without us.

But the point is taken, I don't have any real evidence of Israeli aid, so I don't have anything else to add, expect maybe to broaden things out a bit: What countries are really dependent on the JSF, and what options do they have if the project fails? The whole project, with it's pay-up-or-get-out structure, might wind up being a bit of an overreach for US hegemony. If so, the J-31 could be a real challenge to the US military export regime.

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ML S November 2, 2012 at 9:46 pm

China has to keep up, they loaned a western country a bunch of money. All loan companies have collectors to use when the bill gets late!

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Rob November 2, 2012 at 11:05 pm

Wonder which stealth craft is really the least detectable.

-Radar
-Infrared
-Acoustic
-Magnetic
-Electronic
-Visibly

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Marcellus Hambrick November 2, 2012 at 11:15 pm

Not worried about Chinese. Our liberal social programs will save us!

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:29 pm

Something needs to be done to save us from free-market capitalism — save us from the ideology that sells our assets for profit.

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jet November 3, 2012 at 12:00 am

Probably the B2 Spirit, except for visiblity, then f22, not including UAV’s. Then maybe:
- J31
- j20
- PAK FA
- JSF

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 3:08 pm

Wow, look at that! You pulled 6 aircraft right out of your anus!

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NeoconBrony November 3, 2012 at 4:53 am

To all the people claiming that this is a copy of a US plane: you are dead wrong. The Chinese may have gotten this technology from the US, but we did not invent it ourselves. Every piece of advanced technology that the F-35 has in common with the J-31 is technology that was recovered from the wreckage of the alien spacecraft that crashed in Roswell back in 1947. Jeeze, why don't you people fact check your statements before jumping on the China bashing bandwagon for once?

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Rob November 3, 2012 at 10:53 am

Because despite saving China's butt in WWII they very little to help us in our war against terrorism . They make deals with every group/country we sanction.

It's aligned with Iran and North Korea which both just give ridiculous demands to put an end to our disputes with them. Whereas all we want is international monitoring of their nuke programs.

China would be better to align itself with us because building Stealth and carriers only sends a message that they ready themselves to fight us.

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cs4 November 3, 2012 at 1:41 pm

Just because Iran and North Korea are your enemies does not means other countries cannot be friends with them. They can still choose their friends, can't they? Or if you don't listen Uncle Sam will spank you.

1.6 billion people building one aircraft carrier and a handful of untested stealth fighters sends a message that they are ready to fight you? How paranoid are you? Or is it "You're with us or you're against us" crap.

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riceball November 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm

You're forgetting the convenient fact that China continued their civil war after WW II and the communists won and as you might recall, that was around the time the Cold War started and the Communist Block wasn't exactly friendly with any nation in the West. China was no exception to that and were diametrically opposed to us politically and, like Russia, saw us as one of the bad guys.

Fast forward to today, China isn't doing anything about the war on terrorism because, as of right now, it's none of their business. Although China does a pretty decent sized Muslim population within their borders they haven't been radicalized yet and I imagine that China doesn't want to risk doing anything that might make them want to become radical. They've also been lucky that, so far, they haven't had much or any terrorist attacks against them in other countries as well. I'm sure that if any of that changes, especially internally, that China will react swiftly and harshly but so far, outside of Somali pirates, they haven't had to involve themselves.

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 5:11 pm

"Because despite saving China's butt in WWII they very little to help us in our war against terrorism"

Yes, but in 1949 the Kuomintang was defeated and fled to Taiwan.

Then in 1972 we recognized the PRC instead of Taiwan. Go Nix!

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 3:09 pm

Thank you. Finally! Some truth is being posted!

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Jose November 3, 2012 at 10:18 am

The Chinese crack Me up. If the jet is anything like the stuff They are exporting over here then They can expect to have a fleet of one or two time use aircraft that will be in hangers for mantenance more often than they are flying. The shortcuts They take are almost always costly.

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Hale November 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm

The computer you're using is likely mostly made over there.

China runs the world's largest network of bullet trains, builds a third of the world's ships, and is the third country to send a man into space. They're not some giant T-shirt and toy factory. That would be Vietnam.

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crackup February 24, 2013 at 3:50 am

You mean like the F22 and the JSF? Look who's cracking up now, the Chinese and the American planes, no puns intended.

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Jonah November 3, 2012 at 3:46 pm

Available soon from Harbor Freight.

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JSFMIKE November 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm

Imagine a remote control toy airplane in a config of F-35 up front AND F-22 for the back end. Simple and cheap. Flown by the real jet beside it. There are no electronics for attack or defense, just enough to make it fly. The Western world then falls all over itsself looking and trying to decipher this new jet. Who is really laughing now?

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ltfunk3 November 5, 2012 at 4:26 am

Obviously not the Us taxpayer because you just described a JSF.

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Vaughn November 3, 2012 at 9:53 pm

Just because its externals are similar to the F-22 and F-35, does that make it a truly stealth fighter?

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Marcellus Hambrick November 3, 2012 at 11:44 pm

There are a lot of Chinese Americans that likely work in the US defense industry. Seeing the similarity to some of our planes make you wonder!

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ltfunk3 November 4, 2012 at 2:39 am

The Chinese didnt steal thier stealth technology that claim betrays and ignorance about how technology works, instead they invested hugely in the technology and now it's paying off. Lockheed on the other hand invested hugely in political corruption and marketing and that paid off too for them.

The idea that a country where the young just want to be on TV for 15 minutes is going to be competetive technologically with one where they want to become doctors and engineers is a joke. We chose to cede technological superiority to China and the cries that "they just stole it" are further proof that we would rather blame others then make the investment necessary to be competetive.

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junior November 4, 2012 at 6:07 am

China cannot have mass production of this kind.It will hard time piece of component to produce including the automation.Only the US can do it.

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cs4 November 5, 2012 at 2:33 am

Given unlimited time, even a fool can crack an unbreakable lock.

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The great jessmo November 4, 2012 at 11:39 am

@ltfunk3 The didn't steal anything Just like they didn't steal the J-11 design right?
or the Aegis battle management system, or the B-2s engine inlet tech?

Anyhow Im curious on how the F-35 haters will spins this.

- The same shape as the F-35 but likely inferior machining and LO tech.
-Same size BUT heavier.
-Same shape but less stealthy especially from the rear.
-Inferior in engine tech. Im not saying this based on a nationalistic agenda, Im saying this because of china's poor record in engine tech.

Years of people saying things like "the F-35 cant run cant turn and cant climb" and now we discover that the F-35 CAN super-cruise, and its likely this plane wont

The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners.

"Mach 1.2 is a good speed for you, according to the pilots," O’Bryan said.
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/

Can we get a good counter point, rebuttle from the anti-F-35 crowd. you seem quiet lately.

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 5:21 pm

"O’Bryan said the F-35 is an all-aspect stealth aircraft—that is to say, stealthy from any and all directions."

Hey, maybe they threw in some stealth upgrades to justify the cost!

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ltfunk3 November 5, 2012 at 4:31 am

>Years of people saying things like "the F-35 cant run cant turn and cant climb" and now we discover that the F-35 CAN super-cruise,

Cant fight, cant turn, but can run LOL. The JSF is a lame dog just waiting for the next president to put a bullet in it. Dosent matter who gets elected the JSF program is already dead.

"Where are all the JSF critics when it was claimed the aircraft had superb taxiing performance" LOL

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 9:19 am

After JSF crashes and burns, Lockmart will quietly recapitalize with a two-engine -A version called "Next Gen Air Superiority Fighter" that has none of the R&D costs and still costs ~90% of the -A's flyaway, and everyone will praise them as heroes.

It worked for Elco and the Virginia, soo…

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Big Daddy November 5, 2012 at 7:15 pm

If you know anything about stealth you would see right off the bat these aircraft are NOT stealth. It's so obvious, I even wonder if they are capable of supersonic flight. Most all combat is done at a distance now with missiles.If it gets close enough it gets to the heat seeker and than guns. These aircraft have nowhere near the capabilities of even Russian aircraft which are superior. The Russians will not give them their engine technology. So yes these aircraft look good but like Iran they are paper tigers. Not as funny as an F-5 with dual tails but just a much more expensive paper tiger. Without the engines no super cruise or range, they are older engines and probably not even high performance turbofans, maybe turbojets or early versions of turbofans. Their weapons an radars are also very old designs. It's basically something like an F-4 Phantom with a new dress on, that's all. But the DOD will use them as threats that do not exist to get more funding for pet projects and pork of the politicians and generals so they have high paying jobs after they serve.

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Thomas L. Nielsen November 6, 2012 at 3:18 am

"It's basically something like an F-4 Phantom with a new dress on, that's all."

And how did you arrive at that brilliant piece of aerospace technology analysis? Enquiring minds would like to know….

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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cs4 November 6, 2012 at 5:01 am

Oh it's not stealth because I can see it.

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:35 pm

We in the U.S. brought this on to ourselves.

We bought into the siren song of laissez-faire capitalism. Our CEOs shipped our jobs and technology to China in pursuit of the big fat $$$$ sign, money that they stuffed in Cayman Island accounts to escape the IRS.

Greed is good — for China. We are the ones that made China Inc what it is today.

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Stratege November 6, 2012 at 4:59 am

The copying is obvious: the aerodynamic profile, wings and DSI inlets (F-35), non-moving vertical stabilizers (F-22). Where is Chinese ideas?
Unlike the Russia's PAK-FA, J-31 is not an original design.

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Stratege November 6, 2012 at 5:08 am

Bill Sweetman, editor for the US-based Aviation Week magazine, wrote on his blog that the J-31 is a JSF (F-35) without the constraints imposed by the requirements of the F-35's Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) variant, which effectively limited the weapon bay volume and shape of all F-35 models.
"It looks as if the engines are to the rear of the bulkhead that carries the main landing gear…the designers have been able to install long weapon bays," he commented on the J-31.
"If you ever wondered what a JSF (F-35) might look without those constraints, we now have a live, physical example. Unfortunately…it is Chinese," Sweetman wrote.

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Enforcer57 November 15, 2012 at 2:19 pm

Of course. The SVTOL is a major disaster anyway, taking a conventional design and stuffing all that crap into it. The Harrier should have been redesigned, OR they could've gotten the mid 70s Mcdonell-Douglass FV-12 design out that the Navy rejected; It looked like an old Cutlass, with rotating nozzles, used an A-4M based cockpit and was a mach 1.5 design. A moron named MacNamara tried this crap before with the original F-111 concept, which was designed to replace ALL fighters, bombers, for all services with one plane. We wound up with a great (though overpriced) strike fighter, but one plane doing all jobs is stupid. Ace of all trades and master of none doesn't work, never will.

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Rosalee November 7, 2012 at 6:26 pm

they have the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for all the toys now

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dbonar November 8, 2012 at 10:20 am

Nice photoshop. Those airplanes are not actually flying in the video. They are still shots that someone has tried to make into a motion video.

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top dog November 8, 2012 at 3:15 pm

H-LL, I can see it, I thought it was stealth tech. This look like just another jet painted blue.

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#thievsagainst USA# November 10, 2012 at 7:20 am

They are the biggest thives just as the Russians are of US Military Technology. What a joke I hope that they have a Nuke Meltdown and wipes out half of their military. Well As for Russia they can learn from one that happen in 1989.

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brad wheeler November 10, 2012 at 1:00 pm

child boy will live in the year 7000 future time the plane will bea real propulsion system not floating mobile emitter. childs bank account will be 4400 every 27 days coast to coast without id check. picture of the plane wont be 3d art a real propulsion system!!!! rat6s and bunnies will owna ufo with 110,000 mile nature park antigravity orb will drop yummy food and stuff for the beloved friends

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jdcooper November 12, 2012 at 5:00 pm

Hopefully it works better than the last electronic iPad clone I saw in Beijing recently.
It might LOOK like an F22, (like the Russian Buran looked like the space shuttle) but I'd bet it isn't as capable. Now, if they build a zillion of the things………

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Enforcer57 November 15, 2012 at 2:02 pm

Yeah, its the zillion thing htat has me worried. They can do that since it costs about a tenth what ours do. No development costs to speak of, so all funds can go to purchasing them. And they have all our money since we finance them everytime we go to Walmart or almost any store. I think Lockheed should open its own dept store chain.

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cs4 November 17, 2012 at 7:01 am

Your top 10% has most of your money, since they paid the Chinese peanuts compared with what they charged you.

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Dave Runkle November 19, 2012 at 5:03 pm

Anything that flies can be made to look as if it has advanced capabilities that it may well not have. This approach to aircraft design particularly in wartime, is almost as old as the Wright brothers, but is always employed in wartime to impress as well as intimidate. While there may be entry level electronics, composites and engine technologies, a lot more goes into the giant matrix of advanced aircraft design. There may be a little re-bar and rice paper in this one. Considering China still operates about 1500 steam locomotives, South Korea, Japan and the US may not have much to worry about for decades to come.

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Dougie Quick January 5, 2013 at 12:27 am

Quantity can trump quality so often in war! Simply produce and deploy enough cheaper less effective lower quality bullets/bombs/tanks/nukes etc at a target (US) and all our ultra expensive ultra trick and high tech versions of same can be quite simply overwhelmed by sheer numbers! By spending pennies on the dollar one can deploy 50 times the force in sheer numbers totally overwhelming one's defensive capabilities EVEN when maybe only half of the junk works as designed! Not only that but if your enemy has over a BILLION people, why they can easily lose even three quarters of their population and still have a large population left! Think about that one! I mean do their leaders really CARE about anyone else much than their own survival and standard of living? Hitler wound up confessing he hated the German people once he realized that they did not serve his needs any longer! Thankfully those Nazi egomaniacs fell prey to exactly what I speak of …they were so proud of their high tech ultra expensive high quality military machine that they were overwhelmed by things like lesser quality US and Soviet tanks which were produced in much higher quantity! How many air to air missles can each F22 defend against? Only X number is all … so 20:1 inferior Chinese aircraft lose half their planes for each kill …who cares when they cost pennies on the dollar to produce in comparison! Add to that the likelyhood that their government (who controlls their media) will have headlines read something like "Heroic Chinese fighter pilots quickly and easily blast American devils from the skies without losing a single Chinese aircraft!" But seriously I am not pessimistic because God is in control and is righteous. Anything we get, we also richly deserve and besides God Himself is going to take this whole crooked world out soon enough ..and THAT is what we ought to talk about and worry about rather than the latest greatest weapon systems!

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ben February 11, 2013 at 10:13 pm

I for one not worried. It takes a lot more than just tech (which is still inferior as the US stealth fighter program has a 20 year head start starting with the f117),. Where is Chinas' force pprojection capability? They only recently joined the worlds carrier club and its not even fully operational, with tons of trials down the road. Even if they ever did catch up with force projection, they have neither the experience nor the logistical capabilities to truly e called a world power militarily. LAstly, the chinese are smart, why compete on par militarily when you can just do so economically? China gives money to te US but repayment is in the form of face and looking the other way for shit like Ugyar and Tibet

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blight_ November 2, 2012 at 9:39 am

ssh contractor@JSFCAD.lockheed.com
Access denied
contractor@JSFCAD.lockheed.com's password:
pass

Welcome to the Lockmart Server of Easily Stolen Items

lftp

mget *

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cs4 November 2, 2012 at 10:16 am

Why blame a thief for stealing when you are spending trillions of dollars making weapons but can't spare a few million beefing up security?

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LtKitty November 2, 2012 at 10:26 am

Now we need to spend another 20 years bio-engineering more capable pilots.

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Dfens November 4, 2012 at 11:35 pm

No, our pilots are plenty capable. The right use of stealth is hit and run, not pulling sustained g's in a dogfight. What we need is fast, hard hitting aircraft like the F-23, not the F-22 or the F-35.

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cs4 November 5, 2012 at 4:50 am

Falling apart does not cost you a cent, the JSF will.

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 9:18 am

Dude, they make it cheap because The Customer Is Always Right and the market is supposed to bear it (aka, the masses).

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blight_ November 5, 2012 at 5:17 pm

Now that I think about it, there is an interesting contradiction embedded into stealth and high-speed maneuver.

I suspect it was because the Fighter Mafia was still in play, that there was a desire that Stealthy Ninja must also be agile Shaolin/Wudan monk.

Bad bets happen all the time to contractors trying to play their military industrial crystal ball. Lockheed thought a smaller bomber would win. Northrop went for the bigger bomber. The rest is history.

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:21 pm

Yay! Let's make the CEO of Bain Capital the Commander-in-Chief!

Bain Capital, the guys that are now trying to sell advanced surveillance technology to China as we speak.

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joeblow November 5, 2012 at 11:31 pm

Don't you just love free-market capitalism — sellout anything to make a profit!

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Stratege November 6, 2012 at 5:17 am

I have no doubts about that (about the Chinese Americans in LM's designs teams). But that does not change a fact, that your domestic Chinese designers CLONED the parts of foreign aircraft, not just borrowed some another's ideas with their own implementation.

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Dfens November 6, 2012 at 9:20 am

The aircraft designers MD hired to layout the F-23 understood stealth much better than the people who ended up evaluating the competing aircraft. That's why they opted for the IR suppression tunnels instead of thrust vectoring and gave the airplane much more speed, more weapons carrying capability, and longer legs than the F-22 had. Lockheed sold the F-22 as the ultimate dogfighter, and it only just holds its own in that regard to the Eurofighter. Of course, the great thing about being the US Air Force is you can hide your f ups behind a cloak of "national security" and it's just like it never happened.

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cs4 November 6, 2012 at 10:52 pm

Please enlighten. How do you use borrowed ideas without cloning them? I doubt the US gov't will sell/loan an F22/F35 for a little peek.

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Sven Morgenstern November 16, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Our aircraft are hardened against EMP. End of story. Use of EMP would likely be considered close to the use of a weapon of mass destruction in many cases. Also, the nuclear engine is a TERRIBLE idea.

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