Home » News » The Defense Biz » U.S., Russia dispute if Syrian rebels used chemical weapons

U.S., Russia dispute if Syrian rebels used chemical weapons

by Mike Hoffman on March 19, 2013

Syria’s Assad regime has accused the rebels of launching a chemical weapons attack in the two of Aleppo that killed 25 people — an accusation the rebel fighters have strongly rebuked.

President Obama has said the “red line” to which the U.S. would send forces to Syria would be the use of chemical weapons. However, it was assumed the Assad regime would be the ones using their chemical weapons stockpile, not the rebels.

A Reuters photographer in Aleppo said he could pick up the faint smell of chlorine, however, other media agencies have thus far been unable to confirm the report because of media restrictions.

The debate has extended to the U.S. and Russia. The Russian foreign ministry has said it has enough information to confirm the rebels launched the chemical attack. Of course, Russia has supported and armed Assad in his fight with the rebels.

Meanwhile, U.S. government leaders have said they have not found any evidence of a chemical attack.

“We’ve seen reports from the Assad regime alleging that the opposition has been responsible for use. Let me just say that we have no reason to believe these allegations represent anything more than the regime’s continued attempts to discredit the legitimate opposition and distract from its own atrocities committed against the Syrian people,” said State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland. “We don’t have any evidence to substantiate the regime’s charge that the opposition even has CW (chemical weapons) capability.”

In fact, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the accusations made by Assad could be an attempt to cover up his own potential attacks. Such an attack on civilians would mean the U.S. would send in troops, according to Obama’s previous statements.

Adm. James Stavridis, commander of U.S. European Command, told the Senate Tuesday that his command has started to make plans should an attack be necessary.

“We are prepared if called upon to be engaged,” Stavridis said.

Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., have consistently called for the U.S. to do more to quell the fighting in Syria. On Tuesday, the two Republican senators issued a statement saying the red line had been crossed and action was demanded.

That should include the provision of arms to vetted Syrian opposition groups, targeted strikes against Assad’s aircraft and SCUD missile batteries on the ground, and the establishment of safe zones inside Syria to protect civilians and opposition groups,” the statement read.

Share |

{ 266 comments… read them below or add one }

BlackOwl18E March 19, 2013 at 6:46 pm

I think we should try to convince Russia to intervene…

Just kidding.

Reply

Lance March 19, 2013 at 8:43 pm

Why not end this dumb thing.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 9:01 pm

I am pretty sure that Russia is already convinced that the US is up to no good and plotting to commit more serious crimes against humanity again.

Reply

BlackOwl18E March 19, 2013 at 9:09 pm

You guys don't seem to remember that the last interventions produced more mystery and cost a lot. I want the US to stay out of this conflict even if both sides use chemical weapons. I also want the Syrians and the opposition to drag this conflict out as long as possible. The more that Arab Islamic forces in the Middle East spend fighting each other the less they focus on us here in the west. We also never know what new enemies we will make in the process of intervening.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 11:09 pm

None of the US operations and invasions in the Middle East ever helped anything or anyone other than US interests. They were all designed to create chaos. That's how US arms dealers (or more accurately, death merchants) and US contractors (or more accurately, thieves and thugs) make big blood money.

Reply

orly? March 19, 2013 at 11:11 pm

The hundreds of millions of AKs and almost a hundred thousand Soviet tanks (maybe more) in the world disprove your theory.

Infidel4LIFE March 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm

My man. It sounds sh*tty but its the truth. Let em kill each other. By the time Assad is done, both sides bled white while the Sunni's in Irak turn their guns on Maliki the Iranian lap dog. Wow, tell me "they" didn't see this coming? Its all over YouTube for Chrissake lol!! #1 is Assad. #2 is Maliki and Shia Irak. Maybe Iran after that? Have had it, proceed..

Reply

blight_ March 24, 2013 at 7:59 pm

I'm not sure I sympathize with Assad, but he deserves payback for turning a blind eye to the Sunni radicals who were coming in over the border.

There are a lot of Iraqi refugees who are still in Syria. I don't know what's going to happen to them.

However.

If we ignore them we'll do what we did in Afghanistan in the '90s. We failed to back Massoud. Hekmatyar (sound familiar?) waged a civil war against the Islamic Republic, killed Naijibullah and created the Afghan refugee problem. The Taliban rose out of the civil war mess too. By pretending Afghans weren't worth our while we created the Taliban. We cannot pretend problems in other countries won't bite us in the ass, especially when people all over the world hate America. We don't have to come to them: they will come to us.

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 9:27 pm

Oh boy. Here it comes. Russian weapons are seemingly always in these conflicts. I mean the picture itself consists of a T-72. So, I think that the US and allies (Europe, SK, Japan, etc.) want to see Russia out of things as well.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 10:31 pm

The conflict in Syria was started by the US and NATO. Western arms had been smuggled into the hands of criminals / rebels via Qatar and other US puppet states well before Russia and Iran smelled the foul odor of NATO's evil schemes and sent in some cleaning crew.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:38 pm

Sir. Please, take a look at the picture. I don't think a US factory has made such a tank. Take a look at these links; they are pictures. I spot many Russian AKs and RPGs. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Abou
http://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/
http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article11926
http://jeenyuscorner.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/

USA March 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm

I feel bad for Russian citizens these days, they're are told nothing but lies about the rest of the world.

Chimp March 22, 2013 at 4:31 am

Check out the performance of the FN-6. Another great Raytheon product… er.. no… wait.

Still, good little MANPADS.

USA March 20, 2013 at 1:50 pm

Congratulations on being this years dumbest person on planet Earth.

Reply

skmall March 20, 2013 at 8:05 pm

I am supposing that was meant for "Restore Palestine", right?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 4:22 pm

USA seems to be having a schizophrenic attack. There is no way he can tell you whom he was reply to. He's hallucinating.

BlackOwl18E March 23, 2013 at 4:01 pm

How is this thread still going?

Reply

blight_ March 25, 2013 at 3:23 pm

I think it all started from merchant of death. I got a lot of it, I hope others did too.

Reply

WPG March 19, 2013 at 7:14 pm

Who knows what to believe anymore……

Reply

warspony March 21, 2013 at 8:15 am

Last I heard the rebels (AlQ – you know, our syrian "buds") took a chem base. But, a false flag would work just as well 'cause TBTF want this one.

Reply

Taylor March 19, 2013 at 7:38 pm

During the Cold War it was common for the Russians to accuse us of what they were actually doing. It put us on the defensive and got us off of their case, like with WPG above. The Syrians are almost certainly getting advice from the Russians on how to deal with us.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 9:30 pm

I think that is the case here. Russia/USSR has had a bit of history tangling with not so good powers, such as North Korea, Communist China, etc. Honestly, the Russians need a put a damper on this. Leave the US out, we have been through much to suddenly swing in and clean up another mess. Leave to the Russians. Let them waste money and time.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 10:49 pm

HaHa. You are one busy US propagandist. Both the Libya fiasco and the Syrian Mess were plotted by the US. After Libya, the entire world other than the Americans knows what the NATO crime syndicate is trying to do.

Who do you think you are trying to fool.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 11:02 pm

Uh. I am not trying to fool anyone. I am simply putting down my thoughts. If you have a problem with that, please feel free to keep it to yourself. Anyways, as to the chemical weapons, I doubt the Syrian military used it. I think the rebels found some canisters and attempted to use the stuff. But it appears it didn't go to well.

Reply

warspony March 21, 2013 at 8:21 am

Plus 100 for the tagging of NATO as a crime syndicate. However, the US has little choice in these matters as the shadow govt. (the one's with control of the money printing press) would neutralize any who don't tote Brussel's directives. It's actually better termed as the global bankster vatican mafia cartel where the BIS (the central bank for central banks) leads at the behest of the puppet master. Clue: The family funded the Supreme Ct Bldg and the Knesset (google "NWO Tips Their Hand" @ abideinmiracles for the scoop). No central bank under their control – count on an invasion!

Still not sure? FACT: JP Morgan runs the Iraqi Export Bank out of Baghdad and launders most of the money from the Afghan opium production which has increased seven-fold since ISAF went in.

Reply

Vatican Is Evil March 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm

You hit the Bulls Eye. The US is part of NATO crime syndicate, which is run by a cabal of money trust (e.g. House of Rothschild) and mind control orgs (e.g. the Vatican)

Lance March 19, 2013 at 8:46 pm

I dont put it past Islamist to use chemical weapons the rebels lack training to use them so I can see a attack not working. Both ways we got both sides are bad guys and use any WMD for them to kill all who oppose them. Maybe Blackowl18E is right let Russia clean this out.

Reply

jhm March 19, 2013 at 9:22 pm

Don't feel like seeing T80s and T72s rumbling through the streets of Damascus. Or howitzers pummeling the cities to rubble… Chechens would attest to that…

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 11:03 pm

That's the Stalin era. The criminal is long dead. Now the US has taken over all the business of meddling in small countries' internal affairs and stealing their natural resources.

Reply

orly? March 19, 2013 at 11:15 pm

You really have not read a history book in your life have you?

Reply

Guest March 20, 2013 at 9:36 am

Holy ****! Stalin survived into the 90's? Wow, the Great Satan spreads lies and deceit very well indeed. DUMBASS!

Reply

Benjamin March 21, 2013 at 10:29 am

Check your history, look at Russia recent actions in the country of Georgia.

Reply

Lance March 20, 2013 at 1:25 pm

Syria does not use or have T-80s.

Reply

Rob March 19, 2013 at 9:26 pm

None of the issues in ANY of the worldly disputes are being resolved with negotiations. It may be time just to call a draft and declare World war 3. After all the major countries, ( including Russia, China and USA are destroyed, let the surviving countries decide the future for the planet.

Nonetheless, I've heard reports that Iran and Hezoballah are preparing 50k troops for Syria and that Russian Marine groups are now more active in government held area's. Maybe time to offer the rebels safehaven if we are not going to help more.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 9:37 pm

Eh, I don' t think WW III is necessary. That war would be nuclear, and the whole Earth would be gone, from bicycles to "Restore Palestine." Also, if MAJOR countries are gone, as in the main producers of goods, main economic powers, main military powers, main space powers, etc are gone, then well. Major countries decide the fate of the world. If they are destroyed, other countries simply can't pick up the pace.

Reply

Rob March 19, 2013 at 10:29 pm

But the current course is just draining us of our money, making us look weak to the world …Emboldening Alqueda, North Korea and Iran to confront us more.

No sides are offering peace or compromises … Isreal, Palestine, Russia, Syria, Egypt, Mali, Iraq,Afghanistan, Pakistan, China. None

Many countries have been warring our economy for ages and appear to be winning now.

Millions of dollars are being pulled out of the western economy, mostly from online games, scammers & identity theives. So little is done about it as well as it costs to investigate and prosecute. Even of the few that are caught, so little of the cash is retrieved.

A few countries have been cyberwarring us for years, almost at will, and it is having affects.

195 countries, billions of people and noone has clear plans to improve anything. The debt. Local economies. Businesses and the rich do only that which benefits themselves.

Our government is a stalemate chess game of dems and republicans undermining each others plans.

I don't want WWIII either but it almost seems like the only way to set the world right.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:41 pm

I definitely see all your points. I am especially gratified to see that this is a calm debate, not a fight to the death. Honestly though, WW 3 would end so many lives, I don't see how the world's economy could survive. Conventional or not, WW 3 would be unpleasant, and could make humans go the way of the dinosaur. Once again, the answer is Star Trek!

Reply

IdiotKidWho_Reads March 20, 2013 at 8:28 am

I suspect that WW3 would lead to a "Long Night" situation, or would at least set the world up to deteriorate into one.

Uncle Bill March 19, 2013 at 9:39 pm

In WW3 when Moscow is nuked, Russia is gone, when beijing is nuked, China is gone, When Washington DC is nuked most Americans won't even notice, Most will be better off.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 9:44 pm

Sorry, but no. Americans WOULD notice, look at 9/11. But the question remains who does the first nuking, and why. Also, you took out the Americans and Chinese economies. These are the powerhouses of the world. The world would hardly be better off.

Reply

Rob March 19, 2013 at 10:38 pm

What we have is relative to what we need. If all warring parties are destroyed, the remaining peaceful would remain peaceful, at least for awhile.

There many not be cheap cellphones or gas but the world was no worse without them.

World powers always become stuck with a bully title. Much of the world sees us as the bully now. It usually means that someone will rise up to try to put us down. Same as in Syria. Their government has become a bully to a group of their people. And even worse, after all this time we still do not even know what % support their government.

I was not alive for cold war in the 60's but I feel we are closer to WWIII then anytime in my life.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:52 pm

Hmm. Well, the trouble is that countries that won't participate in WW3 are countries that have limited world power. I simply can't see these relatively small countries running the world. WW3 is a path that can be taken. But you can't just have a spontaneous war just start up. There needs to be a trigger. I HIGHLY doubt the US will be the first to launch a nuclear assault on anything. Russians are cagey, but I don't think they are ready to take on the US AND the EU. China simply won't try anything THAT extreme YET. NK, yeah, they might try something. India, I don't think so. They lack the support of the country and people for such an all-out war. Israel has enough wars around it to be worried about. And there you go. I covered all the major nuclear states. I just don't see it.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 2:35 am

"Much of the world sees us as the bully now." Not really. For Seventy years the soviet union pumped out propaganda that basically, as mentioned elsewhere, accused the US of every evil thing the soviets were doing. That had an effect, especially in the Arab world, but also elsewhere. But most in the world know the truth, the US has been a force for good. Newspapers and politicians like to play up the US is a bully angle for their own agendas. Look at Karzai in Afghanistan. But so many people have been saved from tyranny and starvation by American GI's that the truth is out there. Moral equivalence is a lie. Social Justice is a lie. These are leftovers from the Soviet propaganda machine, which, and I did live thru the cold war, was huge and prolific.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:43 am

Very true. Take a look at some of the humanitarian aid the US has been involved in. As for the Cold War, it was more than just and arms and space race. It also involved control over social groups. The war for propaganda was fought between Communism and Capitalism during the Cold War, and has had lasting effect on the world. The Russians allowed weapons to be sold to anyone who wanted them, and then claimed the US was evil. These customers would then go on to make a life's work of taking the US down.

Musson March 20, 2013 at 8:56 am

Certainly the President of the USA sees us as a bully.

Reply

orly? March 19, 2013 at 10:18 pm

You seriously think there are only a handful of nukes in the world?

Reply

Rob March 19, 2013 at 10:50 pm

I know there are 10's of thousands. But there will only be a % of those able to be launched before either communications are down, orders cannot be given or that some of those launchers would be destroyed in initial strikes.

There is also a % of those missiles that will be shot down, misfire, duds, malfunction, miss their target or plunge into the ocean.

There is also the unknown of which side would surrender first and how fast. It may even just take only a handful in the end.

Only in worse case scenario would the world really be destroyed. Most nukes are also not MEGA nukes. 100? global tests and planet still here.

And in places like Syria, Nukes really do not solve anything. If they do resort to chem or bio weapons, it's going to get ugly fast.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:54 pm

I would say at LEAST 900 nuclear missiles could find and destroy their target. I mean, just look at the US and Russian navy. Filled with SSBMs. US ships can carry ICBMs, and actually many other countries posses that ability. And even if a nuke misses, it still sort of explodes. Surrender would be unlikely, just Mutually Assured Destruction, or MAD.

Reply

orly? March 19, 2013 at 10:59 pm

Knowing that there is more than one way to communicate now in the world of technology, and some military doctrine, I do believe the correct number launched will be several thousand.

The fallout would do the rest.

Also, do you think the next people to possess nukes after the initial Armageddon would ignore the power of the several thousands left behind?

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 11:21 pm

Excellent point. We newer EMP resistant hardware, communications will not be a problem. And yes, if there are survivors, they will attempt to forage to find the technology left behind. That tech includes weapons. So overall, a WW 3 is not the best approach. It may be the easiest, but I don't think the best in terms of economy, population growth, aftermath, and other factors.

Uncle Bill March 19, 2013 at 9:58 pm

Such silly assumptions, removing the chicom gov would not remove the chicom economy, nor USA's. A nuke war, even all out, would not destroy the world. This is a theory from the sixties (you know, you can't hug a child with nuclear arms) that is embraced by idiots i.e, journalists and academics. Speaking of theories embraced by idiots remember all the "scientists" who declared consistently and repeatedly that it was impossible to hit a bullet with a bullet? How the left's best weapon, ridicule, was brought to bear about "Star Wars"? Notice how those idiots are now wetting their pants and askijng for more protection from nukes.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Okay. First of all, nuclear weapons do have the capability to destroy Earth. I don't mean like break it into piece. A several Nuclear missiles, on impact, results in serious fall out, and, when many of these weapons are detonated, can create a nuclear winter, blocking out the soon, and eradicating life. As for the "chicom" government not having influence over the economy. Well. Just read what communism is. The government controls the economy. In the US's case, losing the government would leave one of the largest militaries without a leader. It would be chaotic, even if we could establish a new government.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:11 pm

Oh, and a Nuclear Winter means that the dust thrown into the atmosphere will block out sunlight, which would then, in turn, stop photosynthesis, which would stop plants from making oxygen. And make the world terrible. Just in case you didn't know.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 19, 2013 at 10:25 pm

No, a nuclear winter is the fantasy from the sixties and that is based on dust, not radiation, but more dust would bring more rain and it wouldn't happen. Krakatoa was more energy than all nukes combined. It's left wing bull shit. While the chinese still suffer under a communist dictatorship their economy is the freest in the world and would only grow without the yoke of it's corrupt government. Destroying DC with nukes would not destroy the US gov or economy, just a bunch of politicians, monuments and poor black people.
Look, I'm not advocating ww3 or nuke war, but to have reasonable dicussions we have to critically look at some of the nonsense we've been fed, think for ourselves and not repeat nonsense. and thanks for the suggestion about reading up on what communism is, that certainly advanced your position.. The left lies and uses ridicule to advance their agenda and thinking people need to reject it. They lie and lie and lie, like with Star Wars, and when proven totally wrong they don't want to talk about it anymore. Like Hagel declaring the war in Iraq as lost. Like Al Gore and global warming. Like Obama and solar power.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:32 pm

Alright, I see most of your points. But in WW 3, we are saying the WHOLE world is fighting. With the modern age of weapons, we could easily see 2 Billion casualties. If not more. And that can be accomplished with conventional weapons. Through in nuclear weapons and things aren't going to be good. And that many people gone would result in the manufacturing, engineering, and medical sectors hurt. Forget economy, humanity would be gone. I say government get in another competitive, but peaceful space race. That would fix jobs, as well as further humans reach. Anyways, that is besides the point of this article. The US and Russia have many arguments. I personally think that the rebels found/stole weapons left by the Syrian military, and attempted to use them. Whether they knew if they were chemicals, I know not. But I have doubts to the Syrian military behind this.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 19, 2013 at 10:58 pm

You should change your name to Uncle BS, given how patient you are in writing long pure BS posts.

I suggest you consider writing simply "long long long BS" next time you feel the urge to post a long one. It would be a more efficient use of your time and our time.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 19, 2013 at 10:59 pm

Now hang on. We are trying to conduct a peaceful debate. No need for your input, if that is how it is going to appear. Try using facts and thoughts, not slander, anti-US/neo-Nazi sentiment and rage.

XYZ March 20, 2013 at 12:55 am

Don't simplify things. The exact Krakatoa quote was: "The amount of debris remaining in the atmosphere after the explosion of even the largest nuclear weapons is probably not more than about 1 percent or so of that raised by the Krakatoa eruption." If you are a thinking man, please take the time to quote correctly. So what that says, to me, so that if the amount of debris in the atmosphere from nukes was around .1% of Krakatoa, we would have to detonate 1,000 nukes to get 1 Krakatoa. There are about 4,000 active warheads in the world (from a high of 68,000), so we would get about 4 Krakatoas if all of them were detonated simultaneously. That is, of course, assuming that little .1% thing, and also that each of those 4,000 nukes is as powerful as whatever the guy who wrote that was referring to. I guess you could say that maybe not all of them are, though I would content our current stuff is better than whatever they had in the late 50's when he said it. Either way, I'll reduce it down to 3 Krakatoas just in case.

Also, from my admittedly brief reading on this subject, it seems like those damn dirty liberal scientists have already discredited their own "dust" theory and are now wondering if smoke would do it.

Now, although you are a thinking man, you seem to dislike scientists quite a bit. Let me educate you. Science is the process continually revising your theories when you find evidence to the contrary. It is, in fact, extremely difficult to pull the wool over everyone's eyes for a long period of time in science. Sooner or later people will figure out that you're wrong or you were lying (which are usually synonymous). So when you hold it against scientists that they published a paper that said one thing or the other, you are in fact being very impatient, ignorant about the process of science, and unfair to some of the only thinking-people on the planet, besides yourself. Please be more respectful of them in the future. We will all be proven right or wrong about whatever scientific topic interests you currently in due time if you let the professionals do their work.

P.S. Real data, that I have seen, shows that CO2 levels and temperature levels seem to coincide rather well. And scientists have thought up logical reasons why that could be causal. Those reasons may have some false assumptions, but the argument seems valid. Maybe it'll be proven false, and that huge majority of scientists that currently agree with the theory will also be proven false, but right now I'm going to stick with them, on account of not being a scientist myself and being unable to read all of their fancy journals.

P.P.S. You should read the literature if you want to really know what's going on and inform yourself.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 2:03 am

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 6:56 pm

Yes what he said.

yogiberra111 March 20, 2013 at 10:38 am

Have you considered consulting a mental health professional?

Reply

Ilya March 21, 2013 at 11:02 am

Chernobyl contributed to the amount of fallout equal from several tens to several hundreds of Hiroshimas, depending on the isotope. Europe didn't die. Far from it.

And Little Boy (the one that was dropped on Hiroshima) was a damn dirty first gen bomb.

Reply

Assbestos March 19, 2013 at 10:10 pm

The sad fact is that if you don't help them someone will. Like jihadist militants, who will then recover these chemical weapons. Before you know it some subway station in a major city is on the news in the worst way.

Reply

1man March 20, 2013 at 2:07 pm

Finally someone who understands….

Reply

orly? March 19, 2013 at 11:03 pm

"Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., have consistently called for the U.S. to do more to quell the fighting in Syria. On Tuesday, the two Republican senators issued a statement saying the red line had been crossed and action was demanded." – Article

I am curious on their suggestions.

Reply

justsaying March 20, 2013 at 2:06 pm

lol John McCain is losing his mind a bit, if he was president we would have troops on the ground and in the middle of every conflict on Earth

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 2:25 pm

John McCain is losing his mind and only a bit? HaHa. John McCain doesn't even have a mind. He is just a mouthpiece for the military industrial complex.

Reply

skmall March 20, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Just like you!

Reply

riicky March 20, 2013 at 12:54 am

Can't we just let another country deal with it.

Reply

ReplyMan March 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm

no because other countries are not capable, this is where the World needs the Super Powers most, they have the ability to end conflict.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:22 pm

You must have been snorting some super powders. Everywhere the US goes, never-ending conflicts spread.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:51 pm

Well, I am currently looking out of my window, and I don't see a civil war going on.

Reply

Replyman2 March 22, 2013 at 10:42 am

Name one place the United States has started a "never-ending conflict".

Reply

Restore Palestine March 26, 2013 at 2:38 pm

Iraq.

RMS March 22, 2013 at 11:56 am

Heres a novel idea, how about letting the Syriens have their Civil war without anyone interfering.

Why does anyone have to interfere at all, I'm sure the world will not end if the US and the 'West' sits this one out.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 27, 2013 at 11:05 am

Well, actually, yes, the world might end. The current governments consist of oppressive dictatorships. They need to go. And the governments that will replace them need support; otherwise terrorist groups might attempt to swing power, which is tricky considering the arsenals countries like Syria have. If terrorists get any power, the West will have some serious flack to take, and shoot down.

Reply

Matt March 30, 2013 at 10:17 am

If countries had taken that approach throughout history, there would be no US (Patriots were heavily supported by the French/Spanish) or many other countries that were shaped by revolution/revolt.
If Russia is supporting dictatorship, then it is America/the West's obligation to support the freedom fighters… because if we don't shape their revolution, the jihadists will be sure to.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 1:57 am

Lots of unpleaseant people here. Let me just say this to the palestinian troll. If the U.S. was actually guilty of all the evil in your anti-semite masturbation fantasies why would the puny ignorant palestinians even continue to exist? Nobody needs them or wants them and they would be soooo easy to eliminate.

Reply

Anon March 20, 2013 at 8:56 am

Fight trolls with trolling…not gonna say you're wrong about that. Really wanna see his (assuming male; do Palestinian women have anymore rights than other Islamist nations?) reaction.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 4:23 pm

I will get back to you after I finish loving my goat.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:14 pm

What? Are you like trying to set yourself up or something?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:36 pm

That's not me. Just a sorry good-at-nothing fat-assed American imposter.

blight_ March 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm

They can drive, not sure if they can vote (though it seems the vote isn't particularly trustworthy anyways). Probably not as bad as Saudi Arabia, but not Western Europe by any stretch.
http://genderindex.org/country/west-bank-and-gaza http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/harsh-west-ba

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:03 pm

HaHa. Uncle BS, if you would stop posting BS for a couple of years and use the time to read about the history of the area, you might find the answer on your own. Besides, nobody needs you here. Who needs your BS anyways, there is already overflowing BS in the mainstream media.

As for "US power" and "Palestinians being easy to eliminate", I would point to Vietnam as a lesson. Have you heard about the Vietnam War, Uncle BS?

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:49 pm

There were Palestinians in Vietnam? Dang. I thought it was the Viet Cong with heavy support from the USSR.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 8:01 pm

No smelly little monkey. It is you who has no value. I occasionally add to the discussion when I'm not busy beating you at your own game. And if I may paraprhase, "I knew the Viet Cong, the palestinians are no Viet Cong." The people in Nam fought like tigers for 30 years for their soverignty. All the palestinians do is smell bad and blow up other peoples children. They are ignorant and cowardly, like you.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 22, 2013 at 12:19 pm

Awww, Uncle BS is feeling a little hurt and ranting again. HaHa. Come on Uncle BS, I am not saying you are not adding anything to the discussions. You are. It's just that you have been adding an assortment of BS, misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, delusions, hallucinations, nonsensical babbling and rantings for the most part.

I'm glad you knew the Viet Cong. They kicked America's powerful and smelly behind real good, didn't they. But you are lying about the Palestinians. It's the Americans who are smelling bad and blowing up other peoples children, even during weddings, in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have been doing that for years. You've been too busy writing long delusional propaganda and sloganeering BS posts here to notice it, Uncle BS.

Reply

STemplar March 22, 2013 at 12:29 pm

And now they are asking for partnerships to counter China. Who won again? Shouldn't you be getting back to a rousing game of dirt ball in the squalid garbage strewn slum called Gaza/West Bank?

barryjs07 March 22, 2013 at 6:44 am

could be said about the jews.

Reply

STemplar March 20, 2013 at 4:56 am

What an odd discussion. You've got restore palestine continuing to audition for the Broadway version of Team America. This fella rob that seems to think a WW3 leads anywhere other than the end of human civilization and maybe humanity period.

How about some talk about chemical weapons in Syria and possible US involvement.

I personally would err on the side of caution in military involvement. I do see keeping chemical weapons out of idiots hands as important, but we need to tread lightly. We don't need to get into another occupation. Rolling airstrikes to get rid of Assad's missiles, planes, and some limited airmobile/airborne ops to seize stockpiles, but no grand invasions please.

Seems like if we just blast his planes and missiles, that would even things up with the opposition in a hurry. Plus seize the chemical weapons. We probably should have moved as soon as they started moving weapons around.

Team Obama really backed themselves into a corner with their 'Red line' now even their lib buddies in the media are asking hard questions. Plus he's on his grand tour in the middle east so he really can't play the role of the wimp at the moment.

Reply

Anon March 20, 2013 at 9:00 am

Much agreed, but there are a number of media outlets worldwide that would take any move by the US to seize stockpiles and run it as another regime-changing invasion. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, just that we won't because world opinion is more important to us than national security….

Reply

BAJ March 20, 2013 at 9:46 am

Agreed, STemplar. I would also like to add the question of where these chemical weapons came from. I recall two weeks leading up to the Iraq invasion, masses of truck shipments being made into Syria. If these were in fact the smoking gun that lead us (USA) into that quagmire, no win situation, they need to be documented and neutralized. I don't care about vindication at this point, mistakes were made in Iraq for sure, but we need to insure these weapons are dealt with, preferably in a tactical means as STemplar describes above.
What a g_d awful mess.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:00 pm

Yeah, carpet bombing is not the answer. And Obama's plan wasn't thought through well. Personally, I have to side with the Pentagon. Wait until we have confirmation on the chemical weapons, then consider destroying.

Reply

WhatDidHeJustSay? March 22, 2013 at 11:00 am

Who supplied these chemical weapons to Syria?? Russians need to retrieve all the weapons sold/or given to Syria, The United States needs to retrieve all the weapons given to the rebels, give both sides swords only, and see what happens.I bet people wouldnt be so quick to fight

Reply

Benjamin March 22, 2013 at 11:47 am

Give them sticks and stones. Just makes it bloodier

Reply

Sev March 20, 2013 at 8:32 am

I'm sick of us wasting time and money helping these islamofacists who have nothing but hate for us! Spend the money here! If you want to intervene somewhere, intervene in the country with the crazy dictator who has nukes and says he will launch a nuclear strike on the US. Not if, but he will.

Reply

BiggerPicture March 20, 2013 at 10:16 am

Lets not forget islamofascists were funded and trained by the yankeefascists to supply weapons and funding to the Mujahideen (you might know them as Taliban now) in the 80's. From this directly grew Al Qaeda. Its time for America to STFU and butt out, they have caused more than enough trouble and have shed more than enough innocent blood either directly or through their proxies. Read, learn and understand – or conversely just stamp about on places like this and act like the mule brains you appear to be.

Reply

TheVoice March 20, 2013 at 2:01 pm

wrong again, dont believe the first thing you read, do some independant research maybe you'll gain some knowledge one day, good luck pal

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 2:30 pm

BiggerPicture is completely right about yankeefascists. We don't need nor want US military anywhere in the world. Get all your stinking criminal military bases out of other countries and stay home.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm

I told you to stop using my handle. May your camels become sick!

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:03 pm

I don't even want to decode that. But like I explained above, pulling the US out of military and economic power would be bad.

Matt March 30, 2013 at 10:29 am

The Mujaheddin only became the Taliban /because/ the US pulled out. If we had the political will to actually follow through, we could've ensured that our allies remained in power in Afghanistan instead of it dissolving into a civil war and a rising hotbed of radical activity.
We have the strongest military and biggest economic and diplomatic pressure in the history of humanity, but our public/political will to do what is necessary (no matter how unfortunate) has been deteriorating since Vietnam… And unlike the early 20th century, a nation with the size and interconnected trade of the US can no longer flourish in isolation.

Reply

Zak March 20, 2013 at 10:20 am

Regardless of whether chemical weapons are being used, we should not get involved in this civil war – it isn't our fight.

Reply

Simple March 22, 2013 at 10:37 am

So if the leaders of Syria support terrorists that has nothing to do with the US?? Syrian government has money, they fund terrorists with weapons and ammo, it's only a matter of time before a terrorist group gets ahold of a nuclear bomb.

Reply

Benjamin March 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm

Biological weapons have no ability to differentiate between who they were originally targeted at and the person who lives a thousand miles away. That is reason enough to intervene

Reply

Benny March 20, 2013 at 11:22 am

Everyone in the world will come to regret a rebel takeover in Syria. They are just as mean, vicious and murdering types as are Assad's troops, maybe even moreso. And when they eventually do succeed, you will have another base for the Taliban, AlQaeda, and every other terroists group known. Women will lose all rights. Nonmuslims will be exterminated, etc. I say arm BOTH sides to the teeth and let them kill each other until noone is left. I predict that eventually the WWIII will be a muslim vs nonmuslim war. China will stay out of it.

Reply

Matt March 30, 2013 at 10:40 am

You are aware that Assad's regime is made up of the same kind of "Muslims" that you fear. And if the US intervenes on the side of the rebels, that puts it in a prime place to shape the new state… Just look at Egypt for an example of what can happen when the US does not get involved (the radical Muslim Brotherhood does indeed take over).

Also, to say that all Muslims are preparing for a war against the rest of the world is like saying the Pope has had complete control over all Christians throughout history; it's a convenient narrative, but critically flawed (ie devotion ranges from fundamentalists to professes the faith in name only, schisms in any major religion, national loyalty vs religious unity, etc)

Reply

exartym109a6 March 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm
codejack March 20, 2013 at 1:30 pm

So, are we all just supposed to pretend that Wikileaks doesn't exist? We know what is actually going on in Syria, and every time someone posts one of these bull$hit propaganda pieces while pretending that we in the U.S. are unbiased observers you do nothing but ruin your own credibility.

Look at how all of the former Iraq war hawks are swearing up and down that they opposed the war, or had reservations, or whatever else they can claim to make it seem as if they were not knowingly complicit in the lies our foreign policy has been based on for over a decade, now.

Well, a decade from now, after those plucky rebels have overthrown the dictator Assad… only to find him replaced with hard-line Islamists even more opposed to our interference in their affairs than the nationalist regimes we are so busily replacing across the Middle East, this author will be writing pieces about how we didn't know and he was misled.

But the fact of the matter is that he knows, now, and he wants the conflict to escalate to justify more war against the "enemy," even if we have to build our enemies from the ground up.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 9:26 pm

The US govt is not, and has never been concerned about "dictators" or "democracy". No high-ranking US politician has ever advocated regime change in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain. What have US politicians done when police beat up, jail or kill protestors / democracy advocates in those two countries? Certainly nothing like what they were doing in the case of Libya.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 9:35 pm

First of all, on your rant about the US not caring about dictators, take a look at WW 2. Yeah, your theory hasn't held up well so far. Next, your ideas about democracy. Look at the Cold War. Your other theory blown out of the water. Now frankly, I have never visited Saudi Arabia or Bahrain, so I have no first hand accounts to these police stuff you are insisting on. But if the US goes into the business of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, especially their police business, then the US is considered a meddling police state. The US is criticized for both interfering, and not interfering. Honestly, make up your mind.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 26, 2013 at 2:47 pm

BS ENTERPRISE, here is something a well-taught 8 y.o. boy would know: if you don't understand something, don't BS about it.

You don't know anything about Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, so STFU when others talk about them.

You don't know anything about WW2 and the Cold War, so STFU when others talk about them.

You don't know anything about the economy and federal debt, so STFU when others talk about them.

The list of things you don't know anything about is long. When don't write yourself a reminder using the above as a template.

Thank you for STFU.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 27, 2013 at 11:06 am

Also, claiming someone doesn't know about a topic means that that person is losing badly. In short, you have no possibly leads or claims that Palestine is better than the US. So you resort to petty arguing.

STemplar March 22, 2013 at 1:14 am

Probably because no high ranking person in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain has called the US the Great Satan or said we will burn in a sea of fire. We are pretty consistent in going after the countries that have wronged us.

Reply

john fedup March 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm

Let them fight until there are no Syrians left.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:14 pm

The same for Israelis?

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:24 pm

You sound almost hopeful. Well of course, since we won't interfere, eventually the whole Middle East will fall, as Iraq will lose the US connections, Iran will take Iraq's stuff, Israel will take out Iran, and everyone else will fall into the ever so popular civil wars that seem in fashion in that area of the world.

Reply

Rob March 20, 2013 at 10:18 pm

Israel would not be expanding is they were not forced or scared out of living in other countries.

The ONLY solution for that region is mutual coexistence which both sides seem to reject now. Because BOTH sides commited war crimes and show no signs of being trusted.

Even to nuke, chem or bio all of Isreal will only ruin the land for the Palestinians.

There is no way to only have Isreal or only have Palestine now. War will not solve it.

You can blame America for all you want but this problem existed in that region since the beginning of religions. I blame all the racism and hate between the two cultures. I blame people like you for the lack of seeing outside the box.

In past societies the world conflict resulted in won over territories being taken over by the victor and inhabitants were mostly exiled or enslaved.

WWII resulted in a displacement of many people and except isreal, most of the middle east was given to their people. We did not make states out of Africa. We did not enslave west germany.

I wasn't even alive when they reformed' isreal using the UN to make it legal. Even those who pushed it are mostly dead now being so long now.

Your only hope to restore Palestine is to go into the past and find where the Israelis really began their existence. When you can prove it then they will all want to be there instead anyways :P

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:58 pm

Finally, an intelligent explanation of the situation in the Middle East. Putting everything on the "big boy" (the US) is just really an excuse thrown out by rebels and corrupt governments.

Reply

Taylor March 20, 2013 at 5:14 pm

We already know that the Syrian rebels are as hostile to Israel as Assad is. They and Turkey complained that Assad didn't shoot down the Israeli jets destroying missiles bound for Hezbollah. Any military aid money should go to our real friends in Israel and not to the rebels, in my opinion.

Reply

Rob March 20, 2013 at 10:36 pm

It's so complex and most any direction we go, people will die.

To boost Isreal anymore only makes them have to expand which adds to the problem.

I say it's time we help Palestine hold it's ground and prevent further loss.

What many fail to realize is Isreal is only the size of New York City or Toronto Canada by land mass. Syria is only slightly bigger then New York state.

It makes us seem very weak if we cannot even make a difference unless we use military force.

Reply

IKnowIT March 21, 2013 at 4:44 am

Any thing that's good for Israel is not a policy.

Reply

IKnowIT March 21, 2013 at 4:45 am

In other words, your idea of doing whatever is good for Israel, no matter what, and to the detriment of ourselves, is not a logical policy

Reply

Benny March 21, 2013 at 11:11 am

Look Taylor. Israel is not our friend. They are freinds to no one except themselves. They do not want peace. They want wars. They are expansionists in the NTH degree. They need land and the only way to get iy is take it. They need to be pushed back to the 1963 borders. And they are always trying to drag us into their selfmade problems. They treat the Palestinians just like the Nazis treated them THEY LEARNED WELL. Kidnap tem torture them, take their property, etc They are taking over the Middle East like Hitler took over eastern Europe. We only support Israel because of the massive Jewish influence in the US. We're planning to furlough all DoD workers but we did not cut foreign aid to Israel.

Reply

Rob March 20, 2013 at 10:47 pm

Easy solution is to do nothing until regional allies choose to fight.

Rebels may lose but they chose to fight Assads government.

If a group of kids were attacking teachers and the teachers subdued them all would we go in and kill the teachers? no. We'd help the kids recover, and have the teachers punished if any wrong doings were proven to happen before the fight.

Otherwise, both sides would be given warnings & fines and have to get back to work to pay for it anyways.

Same tactic should apply.

Reply

STemplar March 21, 2013 at 2:18 am

Subdued is an interesting choice of words because applying your example to Syria, dropping artillery and mortar rounds on civilian areas, strafing residential areas with strike aircraft, dropping bombs on gas stations with civilians in lines, using snipers on obviously small children, and now potentially using chemical weapons on people, are what you would call subduing? I'd call it butchery. Not necessarily saying we should involve, but I make no moral equivocation as you seem to think applies. Assad is a murderous pig that should hang.

Reply

xarkey March 20, 2013 at 11:08 pm

I have come to the illogical but inevitable conclusion that a Glass City in both Iran and North Korea would put a BIG lid on all kinds of hostile groups and their whining. I think if it were done discretely and couldn't be "attributed" to any one nation, a great calm would settle over the entire Mideast. I don't believe any great power (Russia, China, France UK or any other ) would intervene. I do believe it would give anyone with world dominion on their mind pause, at least for awhile.

Reply

IKnowIT March 21, 2013 at 4:42 am

You guys need to stop responding to trolls that come up on here and are obviously baiting you with stupid comments that don't further any conversation

Reply

IKnowIT March 21, 2013 at 5:09 am

Guys please read this if you dont know what a troll is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Reply

Mark March 21, 2013 at 2:27 pm

It is easy to tell if they used chemical weapons. You have some 27 different chances to get it right. The people who died can reveal how they were killed. It is called an autopsy.

Reply

facebook proxies June 25, 2013 at 10:17 am
ladies winter boots August 4, 2013 at 7:06 pm
buy soundcloud plays October 17, 2013 at 11:42 pm
Rob March 19, 2013 at 10:41 pm

There is truth in what Restore Palestine is posting.

I am friends with Qatari royalty and they have supported the rebel cause for months.

It was NOT STARTED by us as I believe it was the Arab Spring in various countries that emboldened people in Syria to protest. The protest went bad.

Reply

Rob March 19, 2013 at 11:01 pm

Saudi Arabia has also admitted to supporting groups in Syria too. Unknown how long.

Reply

STemplar March 20, 2013 at 4:26 am

Yah it went bad, that's what happens when you shoot protesters. They get sick of being shot at and shoot back.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:33 am

Well okay. Weapons MIGHT have been given to the Syrians. But Americans didn't pull the trigger. Contrary to popular belief, guns don't load and fire themselves.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 7:41 pm

The truth is that the Saudis don't care for Assad. Just because they're all Muslim doesn't mean they all have to like one another.

Luckily the Middle East is divided against itself, and there is no Greater Arabian State like TE Lawrence promised. Perhaps that was a Zionist conspiracy…?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 12:03 am

Ignorant hypocrite, the US is by far the BIGGEST arms dealer (or more accurately, Death Merchant) in the world.

Since the US will not sell arms to countries it's trying to invade or mess up, it's only fair that the potential victims get their arms from other sources.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 12:21 am

Oh, forgot to mention that you should change your name, too.

How about "BS ENTERPRISE", or "BSS ENTERPRISE", or "USS ENTER-BS" …

Reply

Rob March 20, 2013 at 12:56 am

Our military is in many places by request and with their countries support as well. We would not even be over there so much if World War 2 didn't happen.

NATO is a pact and we do our part. People hate war but it's made the world what it is. Without it we'd all be one big country arguing each other just the same.

Reply

IdiotKidWho_Reads March 20, 2013 at 8:36 am

***THE FOLLOWING IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL***
I don't know for sure, but this is assuming that we are still developing EMP hardened tech, which I'm not sure about because we haven't had a serious nuclear threat in decades, which would lead to that requirement dropping off to help lower acquisition costs.
***THE ABOVE IS HYPOTHETICAL***

No matter what happens, there will always be someone willing to use whatever they deem necessary to advance their own goals, be they good or bad. Even if you remove the current major powers from the Earth, someone will eventually (certainly not immediately) replace them.

Reply

Anon March 20, 2013 at 8:52 am

And again with being hostile…

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:36 am

US is definitely not perfect in handling foreign and sometimes even domestic problems, but, like you said, the US simply can't start everything. The Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting for HUNDREDS of years. They started long before the US was even around. Even before North America was found and colonized by Europe. Just because the US is around doesn't mean that it is the root of ALL evil.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 11:52 am

Why is it that no one sees that my beloved Iran as the true, almighty powerhouse it is? I mean, besides the fact that we are cowards and hide behind women and children, our military is the best in the world!

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 10:36 am

No hostility in my posts. Just ridicule and mockery.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:39 am

I would like to ask though, aren't Russian factories currently marketing and manufacturing the AK-47? In fact, every year, at least 250,000 people are killed by AK-47s alone. The US sells arms. No doubt in that. But after it is sold to a country, that country uses it, however they wish to. If the US imposed rules and regulations on the use of weapons it sold to other countries, then it would be considered meddling in foreign affairs. Without rules, it is considered violent and oppressive. And the same goes with any country with an arms market.

Reply

Achmed March 20, 2013 at 10:44 am

Is it true that your ilustrious little coward of a leader in iran has a secret crush on Achmed the Dead Terrorist?

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm

Define "biggest".

If you mean "sells the most dollar-value items", then yes, the United States is the Neiman Marcus of death-merchantry. We are not the Walmart of death merchantry, that's whoever resells or sells old AKM's or AKM-clones.

When it comes to "weapons that end up in the hands of sketchiest characters", it would have to be Warsaw Pact; though now that China is expanding in Africa, it may switch to Norinco.

Reply

Jean-Luc March 22, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Hi Restore Palestine, I come on this site to see articles and comment about defense technology not read political comment. Whether you are right or wrong in your comments, this is not the correct arena for them and puts people off who are genuinely interested in the tech side. I'd be grateful if you posted the political stuff elsewhere.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 10:40 am

The majority of US bases in foreign countries are present against both the will of the people and the interests of the countries. They are there to serve purely US interests and were installed through a combination of blackmail, coercion and bribery.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:53 am

One big country in a massive civil war, that is.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 10:44 am

Nope. Just having some fun with names I find inappropriate, improper, or objectionable.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:46 am

Definitely. Power has exchanged hands before. It would, if anything, be quickened into a massive arms race as people would remember the weapons of the US and Russia and attempt to use them. Removing major powers will install an era in human history of such instability, it could have lasting repercussions on Earth for MILLIONS of years.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 10:49 am

Right, whatever. US bases are numerous, I think unneeded. Maybe a few bases in Asia, two or three in Europe, and that is it. Power projection is fine without these foreign bases. After, all, if you need airpower, there is the aircraft carrier, which the US operates 18 in total. (11 super carriers, 7 "light" escort assault carriers)

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 11:00 am

No, get ALL your military bases out of Europe and Asia. Stay home.

Reply

platypusfriend March 20, 2013 at 1:08 pm

We'll just let "everyone be their own good guy", right? Well, in case you aren't in-tune with human nature, that isn't going to work.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 6:55 pm

Okay, so stay out. We will do that. Heck, we might even retract from the global market place. Immediately, the EU will feel A LOT less confident. Same with the UN. NK would invade SK, and may attempt to take Japan. China would take over as the world power, which is bad as it relies on US and EU tech to copy. India, well, I have no idea what would happen. But I can say that would be the place to be. So yeah, with the US military and economic power removed from the world's equation, the world won't be better off, whether you like it.

Reply

crackedlenses March 20, 2013 at 2:37 pm

And bucketloads of fantasy to boot.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 2:39 pm

HaHa. Another piece of propaganda. I think the name "BS ENTERPRISE" would really fit you.

You can BS and lie as much as you want. The facts remain the same: the US is the biggest and most unscrupulous arms dealer in the world. Moreover, the US illegally conduct military operations around the world and is constantly killing civilians in other countries. Of course the US mainstream media is not going to report most of those atrocities. And most American fat asses are too lazy and dumb to read or care.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 3:28 pm

Yes, I admit it. I am a little Iranian monkey and I've never produced anything other than body odor.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 4:19 pm

I wish that you would stop using my handle. I am the real Restore Palestine. May your goats run dry!

Reply

greg March 21, 2013 at 3:20 pm

Glad you finally came to your senses.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:12 pm

Are you a propagandist from Voice of America, or just a mental who constantly hears voices and refuses to take medications?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 20, 2013 at 7:12 pm

What a sorry apologist.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:13 pm

Not Uncle Bill, but XYZ. Just realize that might be conflicting.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 7:53 pm

Really USS ENTERPRISE? You support all the ridicule being heaped on me by xyz? Who ends up making no point at all. Just talks liberal nasty shit to someone? Birds of a feather I guess.

Reply

skmall March 20, 2013 at 7:48 pm

Hmm. I thought it was quite realistic.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 7:58 pm

Uh, I am American, I am reading your post. And I care enough to respond to your posts, so I won't consider that lazy. Let me ask, what about people in NK? Is NK better than the US? I also don't remember the US selling its aircraft carriers to other countries, like say Russia. We don't sell our weapons without proper clearance. Not the Russians, though.

Reply

greg March 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm

Your comments lack cohesion and reality. You seem to be terribly afflicted by propaganda.

You wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the face. Why come argue a point to a group that obviously no one agrees with you.

Pathetic.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Who are you talking to? Me? I am not making a sorry, get your language straight. My ancestry traces back to India, so I have really not made any attacks on you, as I know how it feels to have different views. But your sarcasm and thoughts are violent, oppressive, cruel, incorrect, and frankly NEO-NAZI. And lets not forget that the US payed a lot into taking down the Nazis.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 8:15 pm

Look man, you made your points, but some I have to say are faulty. XYZ is just explaining the Krakatoa bit. I say that even with the "calmer" nukes in the world's arsenal, we still have the capability to destroy ourselves. Its not ridicule, its just a debate with facts checked. Calm down a little.

Reply

Uncle Bill March 20, 2013 at 10:11 pm

Explaining the Krakatoa bit to what point. all the worlds nukes would be 3 K's and not 1? So what? 3 K's wouldn't cause a nuclear winter. xyz's post was all about ridicule and condescension, telling me to read up and learn something, Liberals love to ridicule. They rarely refutte anything, just mockery and ridicule. Btw, telling someone to calm down is a cheap tactic. It is passive agressive and extremely inciteful. If you were here in front of me I would have to punch you in the nose for saying it. :-)

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 11:07 pm

Okay then feel sorry for your outdate knowledge. Consolation didn't work. Your points on the aftermath of a nuclear war are all wrong. XYZ, got your back. I think that you have SERIOUSLY underestimated the power of Nuke. If, say a volley of 10, just 10 nukes took off to take the US down, within minutes the US would have intercept missiles locked and fired, and would be tracing the path of the missiles. As soon as that happens, targets are formed, nuclear submarines dive and prepare launch tubes, missile silos will be on read alert, bomber fleets will be armed with nuclear payloads, all waiting for the president and congress's response. A nuke attack would probably result in some serious repercussions. All of a sudden, expect at least 20 nukes in the air. After that, bombers take off, Russia launches, China launches, India launches, Britain launches, France launches, Canada has dinner, North Korea looks in awe, SK and Japan long for peace, Israel probably attacks Iran, and yeah. End of the world.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 20, 2013 at 11:22 pm

Since you are so worked about the incorrectness of the nuclear winter, lets throw it out. Yes, I threw out a serious consequence of nuclear war, but since you aren't willing to accept it, it must not count. Instead, lets focus on more "reliable" facts. You have the fallout. Chernobyl's accident has rendered that area inhabitable for hundreds of years. Oh, and the reactors weren't even nuclear missiles. What do you think would happen when you put in actual nukes? The fallout alone can take care of us. Also, in a possible case, if a nuke explodes underwater, it MIGHT even create a tsunami. Look at the one that hit Japan. Pretty devastating. And that is exactly what you happen in a nuclear conflict. Why do you think there were so many measures to reduce the chances of a nuclear war? Also, saying that you would punch won't really change my tone or ideals. Its just a feeling of rage you have, that frankly, you need to CALM.

Reply

crackedlenses March 21, 2013 at 2:35 am

A troll trolled. The irony is delicious.

Reply

Thomas L. Nielsen March 21, 2013 at 4:22 am

How many trolls could a troll troll if a troll could troll trolls?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 1:08 pm

You are still posting everything twice. Is it really difficult to cut your dosage in half?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

You need to take your copycat ways and go back to wherever you came from. May your goats run dry!

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 9:54 am

Saudis seem to be giving Muslims plenty of money to fight someone, be they other Muslims (isn't this some kind of sin?), and non-Muslims.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 11:36 am

Are you kidding me? NEO-NAZI? I challenge you to justify your accusations.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 12:22 pm

What you really need is NOT responding to my posts, but reading widely, learning to be fair, and becoming somewhat educated on world affairs.

Right now, you are sounding like a brainwashed American faux-news junkie, with no common sense or the slightest independent analytic thinking.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm

BTW, I don't see anything wrong in selling aircraft carriers to countries like India, China, Brazil. In fact, given the lawlessness of the US government and military, and the perpetual warfare the US maintains around the globe, it's imperative that other countries get armed to the teeth and perhaps form an alliance and get rid of the US once and for all.

Reply

Benjamin March 21, 2013 at 12:51 pm

What educational material do you read? What personal experience do you have?
I have seen USS ENTERPRISE and he does have valid experience.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 1:07 pm

It would seem that you are among the best qualified to answer that question. HaHa.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 4:03 pm

HaHa. As if you actually knew what "cohesion", "truth", "reality" and "propaganda" meant.

Show me the WMDs in Iraq and 9-11 terrorists in Afghanistan, Reality expert (or more accurately, Real hallucination expert).

BTW, there are people here who agree with me. Perhaps you should look up all the words you have used once every 8 hours to make sure your memory is still intact. HaHa.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 4:08 pm

HaHa. That's not me, Real hallucination expert.

I guess "cohesion" would not be a word one would use for your cognitive faculty.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 6:34 pm

Nothing wrong with selling to India or Brazil. But China, a communist country, isn't to be trusted. Oh, and the US already has an alliance that could be used to combat your little world alliance you want to form. Call in NATO.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 6:38 pm

Okay. From what I am understanding, are you telling me that there are ZERO Taliban in Afghanistan? What? You probably need to get educated. 9/11 was carried out by the al-Qaeda, which has close ties with the Taliban. If you look at the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, you will find areas which the Taliban have rolled in and thrown out the local government. Get your facts straight.

Reply

skmall March 21, 2013 at 6:40 pm

Are you a neurosurgeon?

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 6:41 pm

Read your other posts. Challenge accepted, and won.

Reply

skmall March 21, 2013 at 6:42 pm

Who said I am American?

Reply

USA March 22, 2013 at 10:47 am

Talking about Restore Palestine

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Ha. You are as doodling dumb and delusional as ever.

You obviously don't have a clue what "communist" or "communism" means. You are merely regurgitating the BS propaganda the US govt and media have used to brainwash Americans.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 6:59 pm

What makes you believe 9/11 was carried out by al qaeda?

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 7:59 pm

I assure you, I am not employed by the US government. Communism is a form of economy where the state holds control over the economy. While in theory the idea of equal money for everyone seems nice, it has rarely worked. Just look at the USSR.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 8:01 pm

There is only one universally used measure for the biggest arms dealer / death merchant : the gross dollar value of the arms sold.

I disagree with your opinion of what constitutes "sketchiest characters" because you are speaking purely from US govt perspective.

To me, the US is the sketchiest character right now. It's followed by the UK, Israel, and perhaps Saudi Arabia to some extent.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Oh my god. What century are you in? The phone calls made from passengers aboard Flight 93 describe people associated with Al-Qaeda. Also, GERMAN, not US intelligence (I am using them to not allow room for the usual "US propaganda" excuse to be used) linked Osama Bin Laden, or leader of of al-Qaeda, to the attacks. Later, in 2004, Osama HIMSELF claimed responsibility for the attacks. Files later recovered at the Abottabad Raid will prove my statements. You SERIOUSLY need to get your brain checked if you claim that al-Qaeda wasn't involved. Thats the facts. Deal.

Reply

STemplar March 21, 2013 at 8:32 pm

Big E, he is a card carrying member of the tin foil hat brigade. I'm sure he would delight you with how the Apollo missions were all faked as well.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 8:37 pm

I could see that happen. I can set it straight though. Oh, and if you are reading, "Restore Palestine", if you even hint towards the Apollo missions as propaganda, prepare to be humiliated.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 8:46 pm

Alright. Okay. Lets set some more facts straight. FIRST OF ALL, even the US sold a trillions of dollars worth of weapons, they aren't "crude weapons". That is, they aren't assault rifles. Rather, look at radar and missile systems, etc. As for sketchy, depend on your definition. But judging by yours, I say the US HARDLY fits the bill. Want sketchy? Go to North Korea. Then, Pakistan. Easily. US comes waaay after folks like NK or Pakistan or China. As for US propaganda, well, take a look at North Korea. Propaganda prince, so to speak.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 9:00 pm

Wikipedia suggests the US sold 8.7 /billion/ in weapons, followed by 8 billion by the Russians.
China at 1.7 billion.
Followed by Ukraine at 1.3 billion.

The Russians are only .7 billion less evil than us in terms of weapons sales.

1 billion or so of it goes to Israel (since 90% of our money goes right back to us)
Then there's Egypt, who we're still delivering to.

I'm surprised the Russians aren't that far behind us…

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 9:23 pm

Yeah, but once again, you have to consider, what the US is selling. Radars don't exactly kill people (directly). Russians sell A LOT more ammunition and guns than anyone. You can walk into a local Wal-Mart and pick up some cartridges, no questions asked, from the one and only Russia.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 9:41 pm

WHAT? That's outlandish.

The US sold over 60 billion dollars of arms in 2011 and 2012.

Russia wasn't anywhere close.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 9:37 pm

Hide it? I don't think I have to hide my thoughts. Though YOUR lack of comprehension of anything is quite evident. If you are trying to say the USSR was successful, then you are actually contradicting your self. You did say that Stalin was terrible.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 9:42 pm

Come on BS ENTERPRISE, you don't know what you are talking about. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Well, I invite you to offer some substantial evidence to support your claim. You will find none.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 9:46 pm

Ooooh. Seems like your own propaganda has failed you. Seriously.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 9:58 pm

Eh?
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/html/export_

TIV of arms exports from the top 50 largest exporters, 2012-2012
Generated: 22 March 2013
Figures are SIPRI Trend Indicator Values (TIVs) expressed in US$ m. at constant (1990) prices.
Figures may not add up due to the conventions of rounding.
A '0' indicates that the value of deliveries is less than US$0.5m
For more information, see http://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers/back
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Rank 2012-2012Rank 2011-2011Supplier20122012-2012
1 1 USA 8760 8760
2 2 Russia 8003 8003
3 4 China 1783 1783
4 11 Ukraine 1344 1344
5 6 Germany (FRG) 1193 1193
6 3 France 1139 1139
7 7 UK 863 863
8 8 Italy 847 847
9 10 Netherlands 760 760

And top importers.

TIV of arms imports to the top 50 largest importers, 2012-2012
Generated: 22 March 2013
Figures are SIPRI Trend Indicator Values (TIVs) expressed in US$ m. at constant (1990) prices.
Figures may not add up due to the conventions of rounding.
A '0' indicates that the value of deliveries is less than US$0.5m
For more information, see http://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers/back
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Rank 2012-2012Rank 2011-2011Recipient20122012-2012
1 1 India 4764 4764
2 11 China 1689 1689
3 12 USA 1297 1297
4 13 Turkey 1269 1269
5 7 Pakistan 1244 1244
6 6 UAE 1094 1094
7 3 South Korea 1078 1078
8 8 Saudi Arabia 923 923
9 2 Australia 889 889
10 4 Morocco 790 790

If you know of anyone else who grinds out the numbers, I'd be happy to look at 'em.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:02 pm

If it makes you feel better, there's a tidbit on CNN (without sources):
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/news/internationa

"Far from it. Thanks to a surge in overseas demand, the F-15 and other aging U.S. weapons systems are hotter than they've been in years. The Department of Defense last year told Congress of plans to sell up to $103 billion in weapons to overseas buyers, a staggering rise from an average of $13 billion a year between 1995 and 2005, according to Deutsche Bank analyst Myles Walton. Signed agreements have tripled since 2000."

Edit: Bear in mind this is 103 billion between '95 and 2005…so not only is this old, but possibly based on flawed projections and also divided by year, vs /retrospective/ data which lacks the fuzziness of guesswork.

Next stop for me is to check
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/programs/biz-ops/factsboo… Facts Book – 30 September 2011.pdf

pg2 notes FY 2011 totals as 11B. However, finding Rusoboronexport numbers will take me some time.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 9:57 pm

HaHa. How about "EVERY US "mission" is propaganda, including the Apollo"?

BTW, just because you are an expert in humiliating yourself doesn't mean you are any good in humiliating others. Feel free to try though.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Okay. If that is how you want to play. You can't claim that Apollo was a hoax, and here is why. First of all, I don't think that you even understand what I am referencing to. The Apollo Missions were space voyages carried out by US astronauts in an attempt to land on the moon. They succeeded. 100 pounds of moon rock has been recovered. MILLIONS of people saw the Saturn V rockets launch, and MILLIONS of people saw the safe recovery of US astronauts after arriving on Earth. Also, if you have a telescope (which you probably don't, since you think its just Western propaganda) and train it on the moon, with enough magnification, you can see the US flag on the moon, along with the descent modules, equipment, and moon buggy. That is unless the moon is just US propaganda. I mean come on. Obviously those tides across the world aren't cased by the moon. The US must have implement some sort of technology in the oceans. The moon is just painted in the sky. (Being sarcastic).

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:06 pm

THANK YOU. EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT MY CLAIM. I could die happy now. Actually not really. But yes, evidence and links. Happy times are here again!

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 10:26 pm

I don't have any specific link or source off the top of my head. But the US has always been the top arms dealer / death merchant in the world. Since the number one business of the US is manufacturing / selling arms and making wars, there is no way the 8.7 billion figure can be right.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 10:28 pm

Here is a reuter report. Saudi Arabia alone bought 33.4 billion US arms in 2011.

Total US arms sales in 2011 = 66.3 billion.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/usa-arms

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:10 pm

lul.

Yeah, I know. I thought we were funneling ~1B to Israel alone. I think these numbers are on the low side myself, but short of doing the numbers myself…

I suspect the real number is <20 B, with the Russians in the 15-19B range.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:16 pm

YES! Evidence. And for those numbers, you have to account for inflation.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:17 pm

I think that the number for US exports is more like a max of 15-17 B, and Russians around 10-12 B. And once again, you have to remember where those weapons end up.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:18 pm

And if thats not enough, a toast to this link: http://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/the-a

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 11:09 pm

I don't see how you have humiliated me with that post.

It seems that you've just embarrassed yourself again. But I'm sure you've long gotten used to it.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:22 pm

I was in the middle of editing a reply when you replied, so I lost my post. I still have the link though.

"Recently, from 2008 to 2011, the United States and Russia have dominated the arms market in the developing world, with both nations either ranking first or second for each of these four years in the value of arms transfer agreements. From 2008 to 2011, the United States made nearly $113 billion in such agreements, 54.5% of all these agreements (expressed in current dollars). Russia made $31.1 billion, 15% of these agreements. During this same period, collectively, the United States and Russia made 69.5% of all arms transfer agreements with developing nations, ($207.3 billion in current dollars) during this four-year period.
In 2011, the United States ranked first in arms transfer agreements with developing nations with
over $56.3 billion or 78.7% of these agreements, an extraordinary increase in market share from
2010, when the United States held a 43.6% market share. In second place was Russia with $4.1 billion or 5.7% of such agreements.
In 2011, the United States ranked first in the value of arms deliveries to developing nations at
$10.5 billion, or 37.6% of all such deliveries. Russia ranked second in these deliveries at $7.5
billion or 26.8%. In worldwide arms transfer agreements in 2011—to both developed and developing nations—the United States dominated, ranking first with $66.3 billion in such agreements or 77.7% of all such agreements. This is the highest single year agreements total in the history of the U.S. arms export program. Russia ranked second in worldwide arms transfer agreements in 2011with $4.8 billion in such global agreements or 5.6%. The value of all arms transfer agreements worldwide in 2011 was $85.3 billion, a substantial increase over the 2010 total of $44.5 billion, and the highest
worldwide arms agreements total since 2004.
In 2011, Saudi Arabia ranked first in the value of arms transfer agreements among all developing
nations weapons purchasers, concluding $33.7 billion in such agreements. The Saudis concluded
$33.4 billion of these agreements with the United States (99%). India ranked second with $6.9
billion in such agreements. The United Arab Emirates (U.A.E) ranked third with $4.5 billion. "
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/R42678.pdf

In short:

We delivered ~10B of weapons, which is consistent with the .mil link. This is greater than the 8.7B reported by SIPRI. The 7.5 B number is greater than the 8 B reported by SIPRI.

If I had the primary data I would compare both datasets and see what was included or not included. I don't doubt the United States is ahead in dollar value; but the better question is what is being sold.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the United States or China that supplied machetes to Rwanda before the genocide. By dollar value, the machetes are dirt cheap; but on the ground, they were evil.

Or that the guns the US bought for the Iraqi Police, Interior Ministry and Wolf Brigades may have been used on innocent civilians. It's not what we wanted; and we enabled criminals, but we did not compel these people to go out and kill.

Edit 2:

Speaking of machetes:
"Linda Melvern's book – based on a years of research and numerous previously unpublished documents – also goes into the fine detail of planning for a possible genocide.

After combing through bank archives and government documents she reveals, for instance, that in 1993 the government of Rwanda imported, from China, three quarters of a million dollars worth of machetes. This was enough for one new machete for every third male.

Machetes were used for many of the murders committed during the genocide.

The details of pre-genocide arms imports from Egypt and France are also given, as is the extent of French military cooperation with the parts of the Rwandan army most responsible for the genocide." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3572887.stm

So, 0.75M of machetes from China as dual-use goods; enough to arm every third male in the entire country. When a nation-state orders machetes in a 750,000 USD order…it's suspicious.

Cases like Rwandan machetes are only offered as an example of how dollar value isn't the sole metric for human suffering. Obviously, an expensive Hellfire missile fired into a church is death merchantry; but dollar-value isn't as important as the types of materials exported.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:26 pm

I'm aware of that, but working on digging out the numbers. I have SIPRI, FAS and an official USG source on FMS. I am looking for numbers from Norinco and Rusoboronexport. I could check Defense Industry Daily, but it may not be complete.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:36 pm

"But the US has always been the top arms dealer / death merchant in the world."
Without firm numbers and omniscient knowledge I wouldn't go that far; but I'm pretty sure the US has been mostly number one during the Cold War and post 9/11. (In the case of the cold war, it ignores situations where the US and USSR give away weapons at below cost, or even for free).

I don't think the 8.7 B figure is right myself, but I'm looking more at the fact that Russia is close behind. The real number from other sources appears above 10B.

Even if the numbers are fuzzy, it's worth thinking about who everyone is selling weapons to. The SIPRI list is pretty interesting.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 10:40 pm

I'm guessing that it's linking to the CRS report I found.

It looks like those are /agreements/ versus actual deliveries. As the US has learned, agreeing to buy a weapon and getting a weapon=huge chasm.

It looks like the US delivered 10+ billion that year but inked deals to deliver large quantities of expensive weapons. Looks like ~30B of that was for the Saudi's F-15's.

So the next question is: What matters more, the agreement or the actual weapon delivery?

For instance, Russia has an /agreement/ to deliver S-300 missiles (or is it S-400?) to Iran. They haven't.

Does that count as a weapons delivery?

Or if we cancel that agreement with the Saudis, or re-negotiate price. Does that make us more or less evil in terms of dollar value, or is evil measured in weapons that leave our control and are put in the hands of foreigners?

I prefer to measure death merchantry in weapons that are placed in the hands of other people. Measuring death merchantry in terms of hypothetical weapons that will be /delivered someday/ is a little different, and is a good measure of the defense industry and profits, but in my book a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:48 pm

I like how different links have conflicting information. I am seeing estimates from 10 billion to 60. But once again, that all doesn't mean jack. The weapons being sold aren't crude weapons. Take a look at the military parades of North Korea and China. Filled with Russian missile launchers such as the OTR-21 Tochka or the SA-15 Tor missile system. More dangerous states use Russian equipment then US tech.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 10:56 pm

Russia sold only 13.2 billion worth of arms in 2011, and only 14 billion in 2012.
http://www.juancole.com/2012/05/us-arms-sales-to-
http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 10:57 pm

Let me try this again:

Russia sold only 13.2 billion worth of arms in 2011, and only 14 billion in 2012.

http://www.juancole.com/2012/05/us-arms-sales-to-

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:51 pm

And, using that measurement, you have to look at the AK-47. And there is my point proven. Russian/USSR weapons have done more killing than anything.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 21, 2013 at 11:29 pm

We are talking about sales, not delivery.

If a contract for weapon sales is signed in 2011, the sales occurred in 2011 regardless of delivery date.

As for "death merchantry", the US has been number one and far ahead of any other country no matter what reasonable standard you choose use.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 21, 2013 at 10:52 pm

Ah, sorry for that untimely reply.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 11:43 pm

The big conflict is agreement vs delivery. The agreements tend to be >50B, and the deliveries are <20B. Within the agreements or within delivery there is error in plus or minus a few billion.

Some of us choose agreement and some of us choose delivery as our number of interest. As long as we all understand the numbers we choose and why then we can be rational.

Reply

blight_ March 21, 2013 at 11:52 pm

You just used the delivery number for the Russians, and compared it to the 66B agreement number, after commenting that the agreement number is more important than the delivery number, though it's possible you found the delivery number just to bring an apple to compare to my apple.

"Russia has set another record in foreign arms trade. According to the country’s president Vladimir Putin, the value of Russian weapons delivered to foreign customers in 2012 exceeded $14 billion."

My numbers are 8.7 vs 8 estimated delivery for US-Russia on SIPRI, the Russian number is less than ARES' estimate. My FAS numbers only disclose "developing" nations at 10B in delivery for the US. My DCSA link states FMS at 11B.

Out of the FAS link:

"In worldwide arms transfer agreements in 2011—to both developed and developing nations—the United States dominated, ranking first with $66.3 billion [Note: which is basically what HuffPo reports] in such agreements or 77.7% of all such agreements. This is the highest single year agreements total in the history of the U.S. arms export program. Russia ranked second in worldwide arms transfer agreements in 2011 with $4.8 billion in such global agreements or 5.6%."

So 2011 promised numbers were ~60 vs 5.

ARES reports 14B *delivered*. Working on solidifying 2012 export numbers. I have a range of numbers for actual delivery: 8.7B, 10ish, 11.1B, though I'm convinced it is higher than the Russian and I just haven't found a source.

Reply

Benjamin March 22, 2013 at 11:41 am

http://www.conflictarm.com/images/Iranian_Ammunit

this is a good source of information on illegal ammunition sales to African countries committed by your beloved Iran

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 22, 2013 at 2:23 pm

Well, I happened to list facts to support the fact that AMERICANS went to the moon, and that it wasn't in fact your ever so favorite word of propaganda.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Oh by the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed that all the good, factual comments have been down voted. It seem the Palestine folks are logging in just to down rate incriminating comments.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 22, 2013 at 6:40 pm

Okay, lets use the term transaction. This would include payment and delivery.

Reply

skmall March 22, 2013 at 6:42 pm

Hey! Jean-Luc Picard! See what I did there? USS Enterprise, Picard?

Reply

Restore Palestine March 23, 2013 at 3:18 am

There is no such a thing as illegal ammunition sales by Iran. You are speaking from the perspective of the US govt, which is the largest international criminal / rogue state from my perspective.

The US needs to get all its criminal military bases and troops out of other countries. As long as the US military is present in other countries, every country has a moral obligation to sell arms and ammunition to countries threatened by the US or the NATO criminal syndicate, including Iran, Sudan, Congo, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, …

Reply

Hans Gruber March 23, 2013 at 12:23 pm

Really? Can't be. It's the other way around. The US, the loser in the Vietnam War, is asking Vietnam, the victor, to help it counter China's rise.

Why would Vietnam ask an inferior and untrustworthy nation as partner? Would you ask a spoiled 8 year old kid to help you fight another man?

Vietnam's leaders are too smart to partner with the US. Despite territorial disputes with China, Vietnam is more of a partner with China than the US. Vietnam is integrating into China's economic sphere. The Chinese Yuan has become the de facto currency in many parts of Vietnam. People shun the US dollar there. A big part of Vietnam's economy has been geared toward serving the Asian market, particular that of China, Japan, and ASEAN countries, where US influential is rapidly diminishing.

Reply

Hans Gruber March 23, 2013 at 12:25 pm

edit: last line: US *influence* is rapidly diminishing.

Reply

STemplar March 23, 2013 at 1:58 pm

Uh huh, keep tellin yourself that.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 23, 2013 at 2:15 pm

Japan is heavy US ally. Just thought I would point that out. Oh, and So is South Korea. You have to powers in the Asian theater that are pretty solid US allies. Oh, and trade between US and Vietnam has grown since the war. The reason behind the "loss" was the because the US army wasn't preparing for a fight with a bunch of conscripts. Now is a different story. Also, how is Vietnam going to stop the rise of China? Let me ask that. Militarily, the US out guns Vietnam. The economy is the same. And on the subject of the economy, it is important to note that the world's economy is based on the USD. GDP is calculated in the USD. China's economy is growing, but when it surpasses the US, it won't have the momentum to stay there. China's wealth comes from making products designed by the US and Europe. When its economy gets larger, the people will think that they are better at making stuff. And anyone in the US knows that the Made In China sticker is sure sign of failure in the near future. China's rapid growth will survive a max of 20-30 years before collapse. Communist countries have a tendency to do that *cough USSR cough*.

Reply

CrazyHorse327 March 23, 2013 at 3:55 pm

May ur goats run away from you stump-f-er baaaaa!!! baaaa!! BAAAA!! You better leave them goats alone boi.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 23, 2013 at 4:51 pm

Nice. You just listed many of the messed up world powers. Eh, eaves me work. Now, I am going to pick on the North Korea, since it is possibly the dumbest country to add to that list of people that should sell military hardware. First of all, NK is horribly out of shape. It is a nuclear program, but not enough money to feed its own people. It has destroyed the ecosystem of the Northern half of the Korean peninsula, it has kidnapped hundreds of people from other countries, it operates full-fledged concentration camps, the government holds its power through a cult-personality. You suggesting that NK should sell hardware (which it has no technical expertise to do so) is possibly the dumbest thing I have read in the past 5 hours.

Reply

blight_ March 24, 2013 at 7:54 pm

I think it depends on the sanction regime and which loopholes are used; but there's a moral question to consider here too.

This isn't the usual Great Game that we play in the Middle East, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan. This is Africa; a very thoroughly screwed up place that hasn't improved as much as people hoped post-decolonization.

Africa needs more time to heal, not more guns and ammo. Popping Gaddafi means more guns flowing into the sub-Saharan. Sudan and South Sudan still aren't getting along. Somalia is still occupied by foreigners, and radicals part of the AQ franchise (or not, does it matter?) are still on the loose.

That said, I'm surprised China isn't on your list.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 23, 2013 at 4:54 pm

Thank you. Shut up "Restore Palestine" as I know you have got some spoon fed propaganda you want to spit out this man speaks truth. The US may manufacture the most weapons in the world, but these weapons kill less people than Russian/USSR weapons. Even after 9/11, Muslims came to the US for protection, and we welcomed then. Anyone can come here, and will be protected. As for the middle east, that is where people leave.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 4:30 pm

I don't remember ever seeing the US apologize for the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. On the contrary, the US has continued to commit murders and war crimes, to wit Libya and Syria.

Obama should return his Nobel Peace Prize to that dirty little propaganda outlet in Sweden.

Reply

skmall March 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm

I was referring to "Restore Palestine"

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 6:05 pm

Okay. Well. I can see you position on the Vatican. So I am not going to go there. As for NATO being essential a mob. Lets say NATO is taken out of commission. Immediately, you will have disbanded an organization that has "kept the US in, the Russians out, and the Germans down". And with the current economic trouble of Europe, that could lead to disaster. Russia knows that NATO is keeping a wary on their military. They aren't going to try anything in Eastern Europe. I won't be as hasty to claim that NATO was a mob. The Warsaw Pact was a mob. North Korea is a gang (albeit a hungry one). I agree that NATO does have questionable transactions in its history. But that isn't the point here. NATO, as a whole, is the only organization that can take on any military threat. Fact.

Reply

blight_ March 24, 2013 at 7:18 pm

The Illuminati can use the EU to control the Europeans, even without NATO.

All glory to the all-seeing-eye!

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 8:07 pm

Well, we aren't exactly speaking with a completely rational person. China is just messed up. Economy is growing there, but how? Same with military.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 8:11 pm

Oh wow hang on! I don't know who you are, but you aren't the real USS ENTERPRISE. Sad you can't even come up with your own name. Thats just sad. As apologies for occupations. I don't remember al-Quada apologizing for 9/11 or any of its crimes. Same for North Korea.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 8:25 pm

And the day a Middle Eastern person wins a Nobel Peace prize, you will probably regret calling the Nobel Peace prize " dirty little propaganda outlet in Sweden".

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 24, 2013 at 8:17 pm

Illuminati. Great, we had to bring in them. OKAY, besides conspiracy theory ideas, I don't see the EU keeping peace. The Euro is losing badly *cough* Greece *cough*. Things aren't really looking up. Only straight country is Britain, which doesn't really country. And Germany. So yeah, not good. (By the way, I recognized the sarcasm about the Illuminati).

Reply

Restore Palestine March 25, 2013 at 10:42 am

BS ENTERPRISE or BSS ENTERPRISE, al qaeda doesn't need to apologize because it's a US invention and its activities on 9/11 are US fabrications.

The collapse of WTC towers and bldg 7 could not possibly have been the result of fire or plane hits. This is a matter of laws of Physics and engineering. You are a pathetic, totally uneducated and ignorant BS'er. Know yourself and STFU.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 25, 2013 at 10:51 am

I'm not you, BS ENTERPRISE. There have been Nobel Prize winners from the ME already, you sorry ignorant dumbass.

Reply

STemplar March 25, 2013 at 12:58 pm

Hahahahaha. Bullshit. Science has everything to do with why those towers collapsed.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 25, 2013 at 1:49 pm

Alright. You have been waving the collapse of the WTC towers. I have already explained the collapse, you can believe your propaganda. Now, explain the Pentagon. The Pentagon, a military building, has officers inside. I am 100% sure that at least SOMEONE inside the Pentagon knows what a bomb looks like. He or she would have raised the alarm. 9/11 was a terrorist attack by al-Qaeda. They themselves have taken responsibility.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 25, 2013 at 1:51 pm

Oh, I see. So these winners are all part of this conspiracy. See. You yourself have just said your own heroes (Middle Easterners) have won the awards known as the Noble Peace Prize. You could never understand the concept of the prize, as you believe in terrorist attacks, stereotypes, and misinformation. I would almost go as far as to say that you would be a disgrace to Palestine, and that is saying something.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 25, 2013 at 2:23 pm

BS ENTERPRISE, you don't "explain" anything. You just BS. That's your business. You might want to partner with STemplar and start a real BS business. You already got a cute, ambitious and fitting name "BS ENTERPRISE". I am sure you will have no difficulty finding all necessary full-time BS'ing employees on this site who are willing to work for minimum wage.

Make it happen, BS ENTERPRISE. Start today.

Reply

blight_ March 25, 2013 at 3:24 pm

Rothschilds are just puppets of the Illuminati and Majestic 12.

Reply

Benjamin March 25, 2013 at 5:02 pm

Get off your addiction to conspiracy websites. It has been repeatedly proven that a fire fueled by jet fuel could easily cause damage to a building that will result in it collapsing. Your brother's in al-Qaeda knew this and so should you.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm

As for "BS ENTERPRISE" being my name, I have been tolerant. And I am American. Just sayin'. Against every single stereotype, the American is being patient and calm. YOU are being an ignorant, foolish terrorist.

Reply

Restore Palestine March 25, 2013 at 7:36 pm

What have been "tolerant" about? Your own BS? WE have been real tolerant of your BS, BS ENTERPRISE!

And given the way YOU BS here, you better be calling yourself American or Indian American.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 25, 2013 at 8:55 pm

Alright, let me stress this YOU are the only anti-American person on this sight. WE have been very tolerant with your radical thoughts and views. If you don't see us being tolerant, you are frankly blind, deaf, and flat out dumb. Though from your track record of comments, I could tell that.

Reply

USS ENTERPRISE March 27, 2013 at 11:03 am

Iraq started its own conflict by invading Kuwait.

Reply

Leave a Comment

Previous post:

Next post: