Home » Air » China’s Fighters, Drone Look Like U.S. Aircraft

China’s Fighters, Drone Look Like U.S. Aircraft

by Brendan McGarry on June 20, 2013

Wing Loong

PARIS — China’s models of military planes at the Paris Air Show bear resemblance to U.S. aircraft, drawing attention to the rising concern in the Defense Department that the country is using cyber espionage to obtain sensitive defense technology.

The state-run Aviation Industry Corporation of China had a large exhibit of military and civilian models of aircraft at the show, held outside Paris at the historic Le Bourget airfield.

The display included three fighters and a drone: a single-seat version of the FC-1, a single-engine fighter built for the Pakistani air force and designated JF-17; a dual-seat variant of the FC-1 in development; the dual-seat, twin-engine L-15 trainer; and an unmanned system called Wing Loong.

The fighters looked like the F-16 made by Lockheed Martin Corp. and the drone bore resemblance to the MQ-1 Predator made by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc., without the inverted tail. The Chinese drone is designed as a low-altitude craft that can fly up to 16,500 feet and loiter for 20 hours.

A spokesman from the Beijing-based corporation was quick to note that the FC-1 is “a lot cheaper than the F-16,” though he declined to provide a figure. The man gave a brief overview of the systems to Military​.com but declined to be named, citing corporation policy.

Notably missing from the exhibit was any display of the J-20, China’s classified stealth-fighter program.

During talks this month at an estate in Rancho Mirage, Calif., President Barack Obama reportedly warned the new Chinese President Xi Jinping that cyber attacks against the U.S. threaten the two countries’ strategic relationship. Xi insisted China is also the victim of computer hacking.

Obama faced pressure to raise the issue after the recent leak of a classified section of a Defense Department report showed that designs for the most advanced U.S. weapons have been compromised by suspected Chinese hackers. The list of weaponry includes the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Littoral Combat Ship, and the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System, among others.

The Pentagon in its latest annual assessment of China’s armed forces for the first time blamed China directly for targeting its computer networks. The attacks were focused on extracting information, including sensitive defense technology.

“In 2012, numerous computer systems around the world, including those owned by the U.S. government, continued to be targeted for intrusions, some of which appear to be attributable directly to the Chinese government and military,” it states. “The accesses and skills required for these intrusions are similar to those necessary to conduct computer network attacks.”

That document also concluded that the People’s Liberation Army, or PLA, considers the strategy of “information dominance” a critical form of defense against countries that it views as “information dependent,” such as the U.S.

China called the accusations “groundless” and “not in line with the efforts made by both sides to strengthen mutual trust and cooperation,” according to a May 9 article published on the state-run website, “People’s Daily Online.” The country is a “victim itself of cyberattacks,” it states.

A Chinese espionage group since 2006 has stolen hundreds of terabytes of information from at least 141 companies across 20 major industries, including aerospace and defense, according to a February report from Mandiant, a closely held company based in Alexandria, Va., which sells information-security services.

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{ 194 comments… read them below or add one }

hibeam June 20, 2013 at 11:15 am

China’s Fighters, Drone Look Like U.S. Aircraft. Astonishing! Could this have anything to do with the incompetent bozo's who allowed all of our top secret data to be downloaded into China? I hope those people are on paid leave now. They deserve to be punished.

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EJ257 June 20, 2013 at 1:20 pm
HAMDAOUI June 21, 2013 at 2:45 pm

Drone is Israeli technology. They invented it and the U.S. bought it, and leaked it.

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deko June 23, 2013 at 8:51 pm

I doubt that the U.S. actually bought Israeli drone technology. More likely the U.S. simply appropriated the idea from Israel a long time ago and invested heavily in it because drones make starting wars against other countries far easier when the risk of deaths is vastly reduced.

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Ken June 29, 2013 at 12:20 am

US leaked it? i think more like Israel decided to secretly sold their tech to China. they've been doing that

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deko July 7, 2013 at 8:45 pm

Israel has been a leader in military R&D. Its drone technology is probably still ahead of the US. Of course any sales by Israel pose a threat to the coffers of US defense contractors and the wallets of their CEOs. So you can bet there will be strong reactions whenever Israel plans to sell their hi-tech stuff to other countries.

PunkinJr June 20, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Really? And I'd like to have a jetpack right about now.

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WRG001 June 20, 2013 at 10:07 pm

Why would they have to prove how it is they came to have the technology? If we accuse them, it's on us to PROVE they stole the intellectual property. They do it…we all do it…this is no surprise. For us to act so incredulous, that a communist/corrupt nation that threatens Western culture around the world, would acquire our technology to use against us…well, shame on us.

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm

That's how they get her done though in Alabama. Hang first, trial later.

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Ken June 21, 2013 at 2:01 am

It's not an issue about the laws. Somehow Americans don't feel like suing China or Chinese at all. Look at the "hiphone", that's not enuff to prove a prima facie case? Apple is willing to sue everyone from Samsung to hTC or Nokia, but not the Chinese. There's something deep down that we don't know

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yesjb June 21, 2013 at 9:56 am

I think it's known!
We let them get us by the balls and now no one wants to piss them off, not the movie industry, not the tech industry and not the financial industry.
We owe them trillions and now it's not us calling the shots!

blight_ June 21, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Apple might lose its precious Foxconn slavefactory if they piss off the wrong people. Go after Samsung and such…

LoveUSA July 7, 2013 at 11:15 pm

When did China use or threaten to use any weapon system against the USA? You may want to check the history books to see when China had been an expansionist imperial power. It really seems to me China's military expansion in more in line with defending its existing boarders and territories rather than any desire for expansion. If you look at China's 5000 years of history and warfare, it has been the defender rather than aggressor the vast majority of time. China the threat to USA is just a play by the proponents of the US Military industrial complex.

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Andrewk June 28, 2013 at 6:35 pm

How much money does the US owe to China?

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deko July 7, 2013 at 9:16 pm

A ballpark figure, probably around 3 Trillions, public and private debts together.

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LoveUSA July 7, 2013 at 10:49 pm

Ha ha we can even get them to some making pirate DVD!

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Ken June 21, 2013 at 1:56 am

we don't know exactly what crazy tech China was able to download, the US govt could of just exaggerate in order to condemn China. For example, China did attack Lockheed n downloaded some stuffs, but those stuffs aren't that important but we still claim god damn china just attacked lockheed n got some crazy stuffs. Cuss seriously those UAV do look like US UAV, but that's only on the outside, we don't know if it can be a true replicate of our drone on the inside. To make a drone that has physical appearance similar to our drone, a picture on the internet would be fine. I don't truly think our engineers r that incompetent compared to those Chinese hackers.

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HAMDAOUI June 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm

There are no "heartfelt" Americans left, the U.S. is a nation of foreigners, a bastard nation driven by greed; the nature of the beast, where treachery has become a national pastime and a Congress full of prostitutes with a charlatan in the casablanca replete with political diletantes.

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Matt June 21, 2013 at 3:04 pm

Bravo. The welfare state has created a permanent underclass of first generation foreigners living off welfare and planning bombings ie Boston. Nobody else cares. They are trying to legalize 20 million Mexicans. All of America is suffering from the dictates cast down from a few pockets of leftism reigning from tiny corners of the country. A gigantic crash is coming.

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Dr. Horrible June 21, 2013 at 6:14 pm

You're arguing that the welfare state has created a permanent underclass that consisted of … two whole people?

And now just one?

That can't be what you're arguing.

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Matt June 22, 2013 at 11:21 pm

blight_ June 21, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Agreed, send the Irish back home to their potato famine

Oh wait

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XYZ June 22, 2013 at 4:56 pm

I'm a first generation foreigner, a naturalized citizen working in the defense industry as an engineer to maintain America's military dominance. So fuck you, elitist prick.

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Matt June 22, 2013 at 11:32 pm

Typical. Foreigners all look at America thru the media complex presented to them via TV or internet because their family has no first hand American traditions, mores, or customs. Not even a shared language in many cases. There is no family history of normalcy functioning within the culture. No long term investment in the national good. So what they see on TV, they think the US really is that way. Then they end up living their lives here in the false media complex that fosters the mental states of people like Nidal Hassan and Jokar Tsarnaev. Personally Mr. XYZ, I hope they screen you extra good, and keep a close eye. You have no real loyalties as a first gen American. Likely no family at risk. You have some capital, assets, property? Doubtful. Just do whatever MTV tells you to do. Maybe now you just do whatever the bureaucrats tell you to do. Whatever HuffPo tells you to do. Thats normal. This is not an indictment of foreigners simply stating facts and logical observations. Keep an eye on the news. Look who does the next bombing. The next act. The next Faizal Shazad. The next Tamerlan. Just take brief moment to look at their history. No loyalties. No one to hold them accountable. No one for them to let down.

StillLovetheUSA February 21, 2014 at 9:49 pm

Have any of you ever owned anything Chinese? I mean people seriously have a concern that they are stealing are technology? They can’t even make good steel or an effective Jet engine. Even when given one to reverse engineer. Buy a Chinese fan at Walmart. How old is that technology? In six months it will either fail or be making so much noise it is unusable. lol They eat with two sticks. Just saying

p10leadman June 22, 2013 at 7:07 am

Our Obama government is too BUSY spying on Americans rather than protect what secrets we have left.

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Guest June 26, 2013 at 2:24 pm

… and we all thought our administration wasn't be transparent.

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Ben June 20, 2013 at 11:31 am

They're just poor copies of outdated platforms. No big deal.

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm

I agree, F-35 really is a piece of crap.

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Ben June 21, 2013 at 11:17 am

Haha, touché.

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Restore Palestine June 23, 2013 at 10:52 am

Which one did you say was a copy of the F-35? The FC-17? That's a low cost light fighter jet designed to be an aerodynamic equal to the F-16. If I were to wager on a dog fight between the F-35 and the FC-17, I'll pick the FC-17.

A more similar looking jet might be the J-31, but again, that will most probably be superior to the F-35 in dog fight as well, because it has two engines.

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marv June 23, 2013 at 8:30 pm

The F-35 is not exactly outdated; rather, it's a poorly conceived and poorly designed expensive piece of junk.

Interestingly, your assessment of them as "poor copies" are still correct, in a different sense, namely, they bear little true resemblance to the F-35 other than their outside appearance. The Chinese only copy ones that are well-designed, low-cost, and easily mass-produced, like the Mig-19, Mig-21, Su-27. They are too smart to be copying expensive junks like the F-35 and F-22.

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blight_ June 20, 2013 at 11:36 am

I'll believe it once they start militarizing those GE engines built in China.

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USS ENTERPRISE June 20, 2013 at 9:29 pm

They might jump to Pratt and Whitney, if we aren't careful!

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blight_ June 21, 2013 at 12:20 pm

P&W for the helicopter engines, GE for the passenger aircraft.

Victory for 'murrica!

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Tony C. June 20, 2013 at 12:15 pm

The Chinese already copied all of the Russian designs, now they want new ones.
The Chinese have a copy of teh Eurofighter also.

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jtm920 June 20, 2013 at 1:33 pm
NathanS June 20, 2013 at 9:22 pm

Yep, they totally lack innovation…

They were only the first to invent gun powder, paper, the printing press, hot air balloons, the pin-hole camera, multi-stage rockets, land mines, kites, negative numbers, maglev wind power generators, non-invasive prenatal diagnostics for down syndrome, certain forms of chemotherapy and the most effective malaria treatment to date.

No, I'm not Chinese, and I am not pro-Chinese. It's just a warning that we can't take our technological dominance for granted because we continue to underestimate them. While we cut R&D, they're boosting theirs.

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USS ENTERPRISE June 20, 2013 at 9:28 pm

Multi-stage rockets? Huh?
Its all in application, buddy. They might have "discovered" gun powder, but they sure as heck were beaten about in the 19th and 20th century. China uses its "innovation" in copying. At least what every comes out of our R&D is applied by us.

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Davis June 21, 2013 at 12:16 pm

Yeah NathanS cause only 13 notable innovations for a civilization that's been around for 5000 years and now has 1.3 billion people is an great ratio.

The US has only been a nation for 237 years and a billion less people than China and look at how often we pump out innovations that change mankind forever.

I'd venture to say we're a bit better at innovating new things than China.

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 5:49 pm

Davis, I'm sorry, but our 'innovations' almost all came from Europe. Genuine 'American' innovations are the lightbulb, the movie projector, etc. Things that were invented by tinkering with ones' honest hands. We didn't start doing the fancy lab stuff until the European scientists fled to our shores to escape WWII, and by then, most of the juicy bits were already claimed by the Europeans: Theory of Relativity, modern chemistry, Quantum Mechanics, Jet engine, internal combustion engine, railway, etc…

My point is that compared to history's great innovators, and yes, the Chinese are among them, we Americans are not that special. Trust me.

Ken June 29, 2013 at 12:28 am

what?? multi-stage rocket and land mine were inventions of China? u gotta be kidding me bro. And you said your not Chinese? sound like you didnt even know that you got brainwashed by your own govt. North Koreans think that they are the ones who invented hamburger too ya know.

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StillLovetheUSA February 21, 2014 at 9:58 pm

I know my post sounded like just the opposite. But I couldn’t agree with you anymore. Can NOT underestimate China. Also people comparing their fighter to the F16. The F 16 is being phased out. It’s 1960′s technology. As far as the F22. There will not be a competitor to it until the 5th generation unmanned fighters are launched. As it sits the F22 is detuned to allow the human body to survive. It truly is no joke

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:50 pm

I don't know about that. We 'borrowed' plenty of German innovations, from modern rocket propulsion to the jet engine to the internal combustion engine. The Germans used to belittle our lack of innovation, as did the French, the Britis, and even the freakin' Belgians. If you think our batwing B-2 was innovative, you should check out the 70-year old Horten Ho-229.

The point is that copying actually requires innovative ability, believe or not. Once the Chinese master the 'basics', you'd better watch out, since they certainly don't lack the money for R&D, or the qualified personnel.

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Praetorian June 22, 2013 at 1:22 pm

The American jet engine was " borrowed " more from the Brits then the Germans. Major General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold requested and got the plans for the engine that powered the British Gloster E. 29/39 in 1941. America had it's first jet flying aircraft by 1943 long before the allies invaded France. What we learned from the Germans was Sweptwing technology which later turned into the F-86, and like you stated, rocket technology.

There are some that would say, what we borrowed from Germany was considered War Reparations.

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Actually, not quite. The German engineers were drafted into our service through 'Operation Paperclip', where they continued their research into jet engines on our behalf, while passing on their technical know-how.

The British, on the other hand, were reluctant to part with their industrial secrets on jet engine once the war was over because they were looking to monetize the new wonder. Although inexplicably, the Brits did assent to selling their engine technology to the Soviets, but that's the damned Pinko Labor Party for you.

blight_ June 21, 2013 at 5:43 pm

Give them more credit. When you want to get ahead as quickly as possible, you buy, and what you can't buy, you steal. You can dial back when you catch up, but not before then.

Blast from the past: The UK used to be a leader of cotton mills until some upstart nation called America ripped it out from under them. The UK's lead in the Industrial Revolution did not last long.

Some key names from the period: Waltham-Lowell; spinning jenny, spinning mule, water frame, Paul Moody, Francis Cabot Lowell, Samuel Slater. The latter two especially so.

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Bradford June 22, 2013 at 5:41 pm

…Like in 1945 – 47, when Russia reverse-engineered our B-29 Bomber…Took them several years to get a new, OBSOLETE aircraft!…lol…

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 10:07 pm

But the story didn't end there. The Russians were able to use the experience and knowledge gained from reverse engineering to go on producing vastly superior designs which rivaled those our own.

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El_Sid June 25, 2013 at 12:58 pm

They used to say the same about Koreans. Now Samsung generates more patents than IBM.

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Jeff June 25, 2013 at 9:36 pm

Or the Japanese before that.

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John Moore June 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm

I hope they are planting false networks and feeding them 1/3 truth mixed in with 2/3 bull which hopefully comes back to bite the CH in the end.

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Mario Pascal December 10, 2013 at 2:44 am

I was thinking the same thing

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Edger June 20, 2013 at 1:27 pm

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! China been copying Russian and NATO designs since the PRC was born. think of it all hte MiGs they copies there new Stealth fighter looks too much like a F-35A. Face it CHina's never made a ral design of there own.

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PolicyWonk June 20, 2013 at 4:12 pm

Well, at least if they copied the F-35, they aren't doing so well. Unfortunately, netierh are we, according to the test results published by Aviation Week.

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Rest Pal July 5, 2013 at 4:19 pm

China most certainly hasn't copied the F-35. The closest thing, the J-31, has two engines on a smaller, slimmer airframe. It makes the F-35 look even uglier than before.

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deko July 7, 2013 at 8:34 pm

I don't think the Chinese are so dumb as to copy the F-35 when they are smart enough to be making the J-11 (an improved domestic version of the Su-30, which is better than the F-15) and the J-10 (a single engined light fighter that is aerodynamically superior to the F-16 block C/D). Heck, even their light export fighter jet FC-1/17 has proved to be more than a match for the F-16 in dogfights.

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carlos June 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm

It's a good thing for them to copy our systems, this way we know what they have, capabilities and how to defend against it. Otherwise we'd have to rely on espionage to figure out what they have…

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strumpanzer June 20, 2013 at 2:02 pm

China can't innovate so they have to replicate.

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Beno June 21, 2013 at 4:09 am

Sorry, i hate this as much as the next westener.

But I think they bloody innovated cyber warfare !!!

Continuing to underestimate your foe is only going to make this worse.

Any assumption that china isnt right at the top of the cyber warfare tree right now could be fatal. We have been had gentlemen.
Simply caught by surprise. ill give you that.
i suggest we very quickly steal back some cyberwarfare tech and get learning.
We have a better capability right now to adapt and innovate. We need to kick it into gear.

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the borg June 23, 2013 at 7:41 pm

I'd say they are pretty bad at 'cyber warfare' since they are repeatedly outed. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that the United States is far far more proficient at 'cyber warfare' than China. It is just that offense is significantly easier than defense in this case.

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netrob June 23, 2013 at 8:02 pm

Agreed. Snowden has leaked that the NSA has repeatedly and illegally hacked into computers at major Chinese Universities and stolen various information.

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CDD June 20, 2013 at 2:17 pm

1. Of course they look similar; they’re designed for a similar purpose.
2. All countries copy things when they’re starting from behind. America copied a lot from German rocket technology and then, with time and money they took it much further. Exciting to think where China will take American technology now it is they who have the money.

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Dequilla June 20, 2013 at 2:33 pm

Actually the Germans copy American rocket design.

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Pleuris June 20, 2013 at 4:49 pm

Know your History… remember werner von Braun? Sounds really German Right?

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USS ENTERPRISE June 20, 2013 at 9:25 pm

Just like the jet engine, right? Hang on, wait.

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:54 pm

Right, and Herr Doktor Werner von Braun was just a cheap clone of Doctor Warner Van Brown. Them Krauts, always travel to the future to copy what will be produced in the future.

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Bad Bob September 25, 2013 at 8:20 pm

Exciting? Yes . . . I am a little . . . excited . . . to think where they might take the results of their STOLEN military technology . . . Remember they threatened to “rain down fire on Los Angeles,” and remember that they arm our street gangs, steal our technology, manipulate the markets, dishonor trade agreements, dump junk on the markets they are demanding be opened to them while they close their own markets to any company not Chinese-”partnered,” . . .
Yes, I am a bit excited to think where exactly they might take that technology.

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CDD2013 June 20, 2013 at 2:18 pm

1. Of course they look similar; they’re designed for a similar purpose.
2. All countries copy things when they’re starting from behind. America copied a lot from German rocket technology and then, with time and money they took it much further. Exciting to think where China will take American technology now it is they who have the money.

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hibeam June 20, 2013 at 2:12 pm

This comment looks like a cheap knock-off of another post I have seen somewhere.

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Dequilla June 20, 2013 at 2:34 pm

Oh by the way they copy American submarine design as well.

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MAT June 20, 2013 at 5:09 pm

Thinking that these are copies is pure wishfull thinking from people tat never built anything in their life ,gliders, high altitude planes etc all have more or the same general layout and proportions as that is what is need to do the job, form follows function no need to copy anyone ,its like accusing someone he has copied round wheel from some one alse also making round wheels. + the plane on the pic doesn't look anything like any Us design if it does have your eye sight checked,closest western design seems to be Israeli Hermes 900 ,but gues what Israel has a long standing tradition of seling their tech to China remember Lavi and radar for the Awacs etc.

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commiekiller June 21, 2013 at 2:18 am

they don't have the money, we took it all and they wont get it back!!! we are in debt, but we have their money, so we have the money. once we pick there ships and subs(yes, we can probably pick them up), we will blow them out of the water

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Professor Ski!!! June 20, 2013 at 2:48 pm

Lets just nuke while we still have the stocks to do it with, before the guy with big ears takes it all away, sayying a piece treaty will keep nukes from flying at us. Mr. President remember your history!

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hibeam June 20, 2013 at 2:45 pm

If we get rid or our nukes everyone will like us. The apology tour thing didn't work. This is sure to work.

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blight_ June 20, 2013 at 3:34 pm

We should be eliminating silo-based nukes: go submarines and aircraft. Or TEL's if we must maintain land-based missiles (Army instead of Air Force? The horror!)

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:56 pm

What is your temperature tolerance? Are you made of the same material as Tony Stark's Iron Man suit?

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greg June 20, 2013 at 2:50 pm

It is a peace treaty not a piece treaty.

Good thing that you aren't in control of are arsenal.

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zach June 20, 2013 at 3:27 pm

Don't you mean OUR arsenal? sorry, couldn't help myself haha

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:56 pm

He must be using Redneck Spell Check 1.0 Turbo.

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Bradford June 22, 2013 at 5:45 pm

…it's TurBOY, not Turbo…lol…

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jdhhf June 20, 2013 at 3:19 pm

China is being perverse its saying yeah we get hacked to. Every country gets hacked that's not the point. Its the type of hacking and buy who. If its state sponsored hacking to steal intellectual property to advance or use it to counter a countries power or lead that's straight up theft by a government entity. And your getting caught and its obvious in your designs and how you got there. The Chinese have you no pride. And as for Americans need to get our act together instead of squabbling about the stupidest tihs from the IRS to NSA etc really dumb tihs. Younger generation lacks wisdom ooohh my rights are being violated. Yeah there smart there smart but so smart that there really stupid. Were busy fighting ourselves while these countries are slowly dismantling us.

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:58 pm

Sorry, but every country that has the means hacks others for intellectual property. Read into ECHELON.

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Jeff June 20, 2013 at 9:58 pm

And I'd also like to add that our response to Chinese hacking should be to hack better than they do.

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Rest Pal June 21, 2013 at 2:14 am

The US does hack better than China and the rest of the world.

The US also acts better than most in playing the victim when in fact it's the villain. Hypocrisy is a US specialty now, bettering its teacher the UK.

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 10:10 pm

Well, her Majesty's GCHQ is no slouch either.

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oli June 20, 2013 at 3:34 pm

So Americans copied German designs. So were at war with China or China is at war with US and we just don't know it, no pun intended. These are different scenarios you can't make that equation.

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Peter June 20, 2013 at 4:03 pm

Maybe I'm taking the wromg view here but one thing I can't understand. It looks simple to me but surely if you have computer systems holding information this sensitive then why is that system EVER connected to the net?

OK, I'm not a major world power but I have a laptop that I use for my work. That laptop (or at least the software on it) is so valuable to me that I never, ever connect it to the internet. Anything that goes in it is loaded by DVD or Zipdrive after it has been scanned first.

Am I wrong or is this really not rocket science?

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USS ENTERPRISE June 20, 2013 at 9:25 pm

Yeah, its the pretty obvious answer. Or, if you really want to, maybe the government make their own system that uses a totally different computer system to access; almost like another dimension (which is pretty sci-fi).

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 5:57 pm

Your stupidity is almost like another dimension. Get lost, troll.

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NGENeer June 22, 2013 at 7:45 pm

Naw – he has it right, not stupid. There is no real excuse for sensitive data to be on systems that are connected to the WWW (that means "the internet.")

Team member scattered all over? – sh-t, if they want to work on some part of the gd-dmn project then move to the place that has that part of the project, Boston, San Jose, Houstin? Tough-titties, it's only until the project is complete. He-ll I had to move six times around the country to do my part in different projects.

Internet? – Sh-t! There's a whole different network for setting up LD Telecom that is point to point fiber, no public access, but with interconnect between every telecom company in the country – called SS7. All you'd need is a different protocol to securely transmit data from place to place. The only way the system could be hacked is if you cut into the T-4 and ID'd the correct T-1 and cut into that! You think that hardware splice couldn't be found? Figure 4 or 5 hours, max.

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 10:14 pm

It'd be great if the teams can all move into the same design facility, but that's not possible, not with our present industrial/tendering setup.

One big reason is pork barrel politics. LockMart is spreadin' the love all over the country to ensure that every important congressional district gets some work, thus making the F-35 program difficult to kill or be scaled back.

It's a catch-22.

Restore Palestine June 23, 2013 at 12:08 am

NGENeer,

I think it's safe to say that you've never been in a managerial or executive position. I even doubt that you've attended college. If engineers in Spain and Italy need to access something in the central database for an average of 2 days in a week, do you pay him a round trip plane ticket plus lodging expenses once a week, with all the lost efficiency associated with it due to lost time in commute, jet lag, delays and other overheads? What if one needs to fast access to meet a deadline? Do you move an entire office block or plant to the US?

Use your brain a little harder before you post. Think more. I know it's hard for the average Americans to change their spoiled ways but hey, unless you're willing to settle for mediocrity / cluelessness, the only way to improve your brain is to use it hard and often. No short cuts.

Jeff June 20, 2013 at 10:02 pm

The problem is that personnel working on these designs are scattered across the country, working for various sub-contractors, who have the need to share design data efficiently and quickly. The Lockmart has a central server where it keeps all of its in-house design data, which by all accounts, is quite secure. The F-35 data was mostly stolen through the said sub-contractors who need to have Lockmart's design data to work on their assigned tasks, but the sub-contractors are all over the world, mailing in thumb drives is simply not practical.

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Bruce June 20, 2013 at 10:16 pm

That is a solid plan as long as only you need access to the data or if you work in a tiny team that can work off the same isolated PC. In reality these projects are run between many teams that are often spread across a large geographical area and they all need to be able to collaborate. Obviously they need to do better but the idea of working off the grid for projects like this is impractical the days.

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djwork June 20, 2013 at 5:19 pm

"and an unmanned system called Wing Loong."
Almost as funny as the name nodong for a missle

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WC June 20, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Jeff June 20, 2013 at 10:03 pm

Like 'cooter'. Hehehehe, hahahaha…

Major, order a cooter strike in sector 14!

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Kim June 21, 2013 at 1:01 pm

Ok, so somebody in China has a good sense of humour…..

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USS ENTERPRISE June 20, 2013 at 5:45 pm

NO WAY! Its not like China has been hacking US defense contractors, and government agencies, in an attempt to get information to make these cheap Air Hogs. Obviously.

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david June 20, 2013 at 8:19 pm

Big surprise. China, Russia and Israel have always done all they can to steal American secrets.

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Ivy June 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm

You can't really say that when the so-called secrets are either not secrets at all, or products of first/second/third generation Chinese/Russian/Israeli engineers.

Few American students study science or engineering in college, and those who do tend to be mediocre. The number one science/computer/engineering student population in America is Chinese, followed by Indians, Jews, and eastern Europeans such as Russians.

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blight_ June 20, 2013 at 11:55 pm

I guess if we were out of the sneaky reverse-engineering business, we'd have to clean Tonopah out. Goodbye S-300. Goodbye radars. Goodbye Migs and Sukhois. Goodbye ELINT aircraft designed to analyze enemy radars.

Did I miss something? That said, the US will still steal stuff, even if it's perceived as lower-technology. Why? Knowledge is power.

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majr0d June 21, 2013 at 3:57 am

Stealing is different than turning around and producing it. You have a point but you take it too far.

BTW, I also do business in China. The Chinese have a different perspective on intellectual property. They consider copying a form of flattery. Hard to accept being a westerner but it remains part of the equation.

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blight_ June 21, 2013 at 9:41 am

I'm debating if them semantically agreeing to license technology for production would make anyone feel better. They're already partnering to build CFE engines with General Electric, which means the experienced workforce to build the engines is being grown and cultivated there. Experienced managers and local personnel can probably buy similar equipment from elsewhere and have a go at making better engines with or without insider information from GE.

And of course, designing high performance electronics or engines will require the metallurgy and fabrication skills to make them possible. Nobody is looking into where China will acquire /those/ skills…yet. I suspect they may try to do so by buying out foreign "heavy industry" when it goes bankrupt and moving the assets back to the PRC.

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johnvarry June 21, 2013 at 12:39 am

The FC-1/JF-17 is hardly new. First flight was 2003 and entered service with PAF in 2010.

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mr. murica June 21, 2013 at 2:13 am

they are copying what we have on the coasts, probably missing things, and lowering quality.
china obviously hasn't gone further than us in technology. if these are the things the military is showing us, imagine what our military really has

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Stratege June 21, 2013 at 5:17 am

Well, about their J-20 aircraft, It looks it have an relatively original airframe (not an "rivet-to-rivet" stolen design). But its canopy looks almost like an exactly copy of the F-22's canopy… Of course Chinese are using foreign ideas, but i don't believe that Chinese can't innovate at all.

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LindaBodicea July 20, 2013 at 3:35 am

Provide some examples of Chinese innovation since the invention of gunpowder. I can't think of a single major invention.

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Falkenknight February 6, 2014 at 6:27 am

Its Copy of Mig 1.43 Project

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Franklin June 21, 2013 at 6:11 am

I can't believe the paranoia, and the fear of some of these people. Do they really think any of this is new and has not been happening for a long time. America has always and will always lead the world.

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 6:01 pm

"America has always and will always lead the world."

America has NOT always led the world, and if your attitude became more widespread, it will NOT continue to lead the world.

Leaders are hungry, paranoid, looking ahead to great things but also glancing behind them for challengers. This never ends. The minute you think you are the sh!t, the best thing since sliced bread and canned corn, you are pretty much guaranteeing yourself a fall.

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 6:02 pm

And I like to add that Tyson vs Douglas was a great example of that, the lessons of which can be applied on a much larger scale.

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USS ENTERPRISE June 22, 2013 at 11:02 am

Pessimism always gets us somewhere, doesn't it?

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Restore Palestine June 21, 2013 at 9:30 pm

Franklin,

America has always led the world in spying, hacking and then playing victims. Worse still, America is a world leader in fabricating false pretexts, false evidence, and false accusations, followed by illegally invading other countries.

Do you really wish America will always lead the world like this?

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Shock Me November 11, 2013 at 2:45 pm

In fairness, less democratic countries seldom require a pretext for invading someone else they simply do it.

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Ricardo July 14, 2013 at 10:37 am

What exactly does America Lead the world, rather manipulate and force American ideologies onto other countries to dominate and make profit out of them. To create instability and prevention of other countries becoming power houses so America can reap the benefits. THIS HAS TO CHANGE!

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RAZORBACK June 21, 2013 at 7:49 am

Well look at it this way, now we can send our predators to conduct surveillance all over china! and the chinese will think its one of theirs! what more in time of war!

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inside man June 21, 2013 at 10:10 am

haha and then maybe we can attach small hydrogen bombs to its deployment system while we are at it :)

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 6:03 pm

This reminds me of that episode of Spy vs Spy where both had the exact same idea.

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Bad Bob September 25, 2013 at 8:24 pm

That goes both ways. They can set us up in some major ways. Remember they are masters of deception, as all communists are.

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Joe Morris June 21, 2013 at 8:21 am

What does DOD expect when the computers they use are most likely "made in China"?

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@Major_Ray June 21, 2013 at 8:25 am

So Snowden is a hero? So you hate top secrets by our government? President Obama should tell everything we are doing to the public. Now you complain because China has a direct link to all our sensitive data? Why are some Americans so stupid??

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Rest Pal June 21, 2013 at 11:29 am

Snowden is absolutely a hero.

Anyone who says otherwise is an accessory to crimes by the government against the people.

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USS ENTERPRISE June 22, 2013 at 11:06 am

Media, as usual, giving only one side of the story.

No one that supports Snowden had addressed the fact that several terrorist attacks have been stopped by this "scandal". Already know I am going to get flak, but the truth hurts, and if you fifty year old veterans don't realize that, we are will fall faster than before. Snowden is giving away top secret information, and hiding in Hong Kong. "Not a patriot, not a defector"? Why is he in Hong Kong, then?

Hero my rear end.

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deko July 7, 2013 at 8:26 pm

Snowden was in Hong Kong avoid capture and torture by bad apples or corporate mafia who have hijacked the US government and the US Constitution. Have you ever read or understood the US Constitution? I don't think so.

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HK is better than US June 23, 2013 at 9:03 pm

Good news for you: The government of Hong Kong has refused US request to arrest Snowden. He is on his way to Equador via Moscow. Kudos to Russia. I hope Snowden will successfully avoid all arrest attempts by crooks from the US.

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Jeff June 21, 2013 at 6:06 pm

Snowden is already much more of a hero than you will ever wish to be. Snowden knows his US Constitution for a start, whereas you do NOT.

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James Robinson June 21, 2013 at 11:22 pm

If you are a Major you are living proof that sh__ rises to the top, or in your case the middle. Are we to believe that each of the "Millions" that NSA snooped on were threats to our nation? There aren't that many terrorists in the Middle East countries combined. Are we to believe that an Attorney General, CIA Director or NSA Director that lie repeatedly have the best interests of the American people at heart? As one who once held a Top Secret clearance (yes I know-relatively low on the Security Totem Pole) I know there are reasons for keeping things quiet and confidential. But when it comes to violating the rights of law abiding citizens because some dickhead in the intelligence community thinks there is a Boogey Man behind every tree, then it's time this crap stops!

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wellduh June 28, 2013 at 9:12 am

Moron – the NSA doesn't actaully listen to all those calls. No one has that many people. NSA is NOT listneing to more phone calls. They are getting better at which ones are criminal related.

Basically the NSA can now GOOGLE which of the nation's calls that they spend time listening to. And only after court says that search pattern looks good.

So don't worry about NSA telling everyone hwo you can only get off having sex with old ladies on horseback. They don't have time to amuse themselves with your kinkness or misdeanors or even felonies with no national impact. You can still hire killer to kill your daddy over the phone without NSA caring. So far local law enforcement doesn't have funding to tap into NSA google-a-crime capability. And if they did…well frankly I doubt the constitution was intend to protect crime with privacy. Constitutional privacy was intented to prevent harassment and breakage. Redcoat authorities often blackmailed people with threat of search where search would trash your property and you could be dragged anked from your house. Not anything like the current American "right to commit crimes and prevent investigation unless I wish to confess."

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green July 7, 2013 at 2:42 pm

Moron, it's not what they actually listen that matters. It's their unchecked power to both eavesdrop illegally and accuse at will. Whistleblowers of illegal government activities will easily be labeled as terrorist activities and thwarted. Grow a brain, will ya.

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Ricardo July 14, 2013 at 11:40 am

America is not authorized to STEAL data, nobody consented to this. Theft is Theft!! No matter for what purpose America. The joke is on America, pointing fingers at China – from the president himself LOL!! America remember this when you point a finger 3 fingers point back at you from the same hand.
When a bomb goes off in America is called terrorism, but if its in a foe of America then its called a freedom fighter? So tell us why is it that America requires such tight security to spy on the rest of the world? What has America done that they have to be so protective and scared about?
People do not do things without a reason? I am sure Middle & Far East could fill books of reasons why America has to ensure their security tactics.
But we get good people like Snowden, i am sure when he thought about Americas accusations against China this played on his mind – at least he is not a hypocrite like all the people trying to bring him to so called justice? The world needs a lot more Snowdens . . .

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rule of law June 23, 2013 at 6:57 pm

We don't hate top secrets, we love them and that's why we want to know everything about them. The government is not supposed to keep secrets from its citizens, not US government anyway because we have long advocated OPEN government, here and abroad.

It's a sheer hypocrisy for the US government to secretly conduct unconstitutional wiretapping and spying while at the same time accuse other countries of doing the same thing. It's simply disgusting.

I suppose you hate spying? Not that the leaked info shows that there are a bunch of criminals working in the NSA, would you support arrest warrants for NSA officials by victim countries like Russia and China? Or is it illegal only other countries are doing it??

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rule of law June 23, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Correction: meant to say "It's sheer hypocrisy" (second paragraph) and "Now that the leaked info shows …" (third paragraph).

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Louis June 23, 2013 at 11:27 pm

Snowden is a coward and a traitor as far as I'm concerned, if he truly believes in what he did and america can tuly accept homegrown traitors working in places with secrets then come home and take your ass whipping like a man. All the papers and rights activist in the world will be their to take the pain away, our parents and government set rules in their house for your protection and theirs you wanna break those rules and be your own man then you no longer need their help too face the world or will he just be another Benedict Arnold who dies in silence in a foreign.

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Ricardo July 14, 2013 at 12:03 pm

If America has stolen any of my data beware, Theft is Theft and criminals must be brought to justice, Its good to see that at least there are some good Americans left, OK facts so Snowden is a Coward? we wish the rest of the world would bring America to justice! It takes a man to admit they are wrong! Not hide behind accusations America. America stop accusing and repent.
In America when a person testifies against a MOB, the government provides protective custody, as the MOB wants to do ill things to this person right? Look at it this way, the MOB is a division of the American government and the world is offering Snowden protective custody, where does coward come into this . . . more like justice getting server to a "above the law" department?

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blight_ June 24, 2013 at 8:56 am

Echelon's been known for a while, and anyone assuming the NSA would sit on their laurels and ignore the internet is silly.

Someone revealing that the NSA finally has enough computational capability to /rapidly decide/ would be the bigger leaker. Just because you /can/ do something, vs doing something in a /timely/ fashion…?

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truths4all June 21, 2013 at 11:00 am

Zero surprise here. It is clear the Obama administration has been lax and derelict in securing our military designs and secrets from the Chinese.

I only wish that some designer would make up a totally nonsensical design, then designate it to be Top Secret and watch and wait to see how long before the Chinese and Russians trot out their version of the faker design. Betcha it would only be a matter of months.

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JohnB June 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm

One of the most embarrassing scenarios is when you are beaten in your own games, by your own stick, right at your home, and in front of the wife and kids — Sun Tzu page 101.

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brok3n June 21, 2013 at 1:22 pm

FC-1 = Northrop F-20 Tigershark
Yilong = General Atomics Reaper/Predator
L-15 = YAK-130 / M-346

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Rest Pal July 5, 2013 at 4:20 pm

FC-1 = F-20 Tigershark??

You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

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brandy July 7, 2013 at 2:37 pm

What part of FC-1 looks like F-20? You need to have your eyes examined.

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eagle275 June 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm

So when will Biden be brought up on charges of treason for spilling the beans on the SEAL's that were in the chopper that was shot down,eh. Or the details Obama gave out for a GD movie? I say find the biggest tree for all of these thugs.

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Matt June 21, 2013 at 3:16 pm

This is bad. If they have compromised our most sensitive systems like AEGIS and F35, then imagine what they got that our government isn't telling us. Classified and black programs. They most likely got it all. Sub technology, stealth technology. Why not? Everything has been compromised. Even the private sector tech has been completely stolen.

They have everything. Like "carlos" said at least we know what they have. And I would like to think we had some back door defenses on stolen files or sabotage capability. Doubtful.

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Bill June 21, 2013 at 5:40 pm

The reason why they are so cheap is, when you don't have to put in the R&D, the overhead decreases. China are thieves. Equate them with the Ferangie.

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Restore Palestine June 21, 2013 at 9:34 pm

When it comes to stealing, China is nothing compared to the US, which steals hundreds of billions of dollars a year from other countries, including China, Japan, Korea, and Saudi Arabia.

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Papi1960R June 21, 2013 at 8:06 pm

Hopefully our government will learn from this. Why should we waste $billions on developing products when we could hire a bunch of hackers for a few thousand each year to "acquire" our new designs. We are so stupid.

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Jeff June 24, 2013 at 8:32 am

And from where shall the said hackers acquire their designs from? D'oh!

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hibeam June 21, 2013 at 11:30 pm

The Chinese are building up their military in a big way. I can only assume someone made a hateful video.

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 8:24 am

It's probably Lance.

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GeneralA June 22, 2013 at 7:55 pm

Time for a different approach to China simply this invest and developed West, South Central Africa and Mexico to manufacture goods so we can buy from them and leave China alone for good. Stop trading and buying from China period!

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Jeff June 22, 2013 at 10:19 pm

Too late. Mexico is already too expensive and too unstable. Who wants to brave hailstorms of drug cartel bullets to get to work in Mexico? Remember, the parts of Mexico with the lowest labor cost are also the most infested with drug cartels.

As for setting up factory in Africa, we'd have to ask for Chinese permissions, since they practically own the continent.

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Stratege June 23, 2013 at 9:22 am

Once i heard story how the US designed made almost exact copy of the Soviet pontoon bridge…

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ONTIME June 23, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Just hack the commies and keep your mouths shut, espionage is all about wrecking the other guy before he makes you look stupid and weak……..are we to late?

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android5000 June 23, 2013 at 4:09 pm

So what else is new?

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Bradford June 23, 2013 at 8:28 pm

If WE had NO secrets, all of their spies would be unemployed…
Now well into our 3rd Century, it's time for America to be free, and NO SECRETS…
We can best share the rule of the WORLD, in open transparency…

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Louis June 23, 2013 at 11:10 pm

Snowden is a coward and a traitor as far as I'm concerned, if he truly believes in what he did and america can tuly accept homegrown traitors working in places with secrets then come home and take your ass whipping like a man. All the papers and rights activist in the world will be their to take the pain away, our parents and government set rules in their house for your protection and theirs you wanna break those rules and be your own man then you no longer need their help too face the world or will he just be another Benedict Arnold who dies in silence in a foreign land.

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Jeff July 6, 2013 at 1:57 pm

No, you are a coward and a traitor, as far as I'm concerned.

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Chimp June 25, 2013 at 5:23 am

The JF-17 isn't a copy of anything, as far as I can tell. It's got little hints of features from all over (LERX, DVI) but it's in essence a fairly conventional lightweight jet fighter that was built out of modern composites, fitted with good enough engines and avionics, and delivered on time, under budget and fit for purpose.

Now, they didn't copy that from the USA, did they…

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brok3n June 26, 2013 at 1:01 pm

Overall design resembles the now defunct F-20 Tigershark, DSI's stolen from the F-35.

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Restore Palestine June 26, 2013 at 10:52 pm

The FC-17 does not resemble the F-20. Another jet does (I don't know the name), but that one is for ground/ship attacks. The DSI is not stolen from the F-35; it just looks similar. The FC-17 entered serial production long before the F-35 did.

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Chimp July 2, 2013 at 2:34 am

I think it's pretty clear some of that tech is stolen from the US, though not necessarily by Chinese spies. That Indian dude who worked on the B-2 programme sold everything he could get his hands on to anyone who had money.

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Chimp June 27, 2013 at 6:27 am

It certainly didn't steal the development and procurement process from the F-35 programme. That was kind of my point…

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jeff June 27, 2013 at 4:24 pm

J-17 has a superior airframe in terms of aerodynamics, with LERX, DVI, not to mention superior avionics by the virtue of it being a much later creation. Moreover, it doesn't really resemble the F-20.

If I had to play your blind man's game, I'd say the F-20 is a copy of the Saab Draken and Dassault Mirage 2000, a really ugly copy.

But seriously, get your eyes checked out, but not before your head.

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Bradford June 27, 2013 at 4:30 pm

…my compliments to your bosses in Beijing, "Jeff"…
…you almost sound American. Almost.
*Semper*Fidelis*America*

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Jeff June 28, 2013 at 8:33 pm

Yet another erroneous judgement from you, much like your belief that the Boston bombing was "only a FedGov / Corporate drill" with casualties being "all fakes, and actors", or your strangely hippie fantasy that "it's time for America to be free, and NO SECRETS" and that "we can best share the rule of the WORLD, in open transparency".

So pardon me if I find your ability to judge whether I'm American to be suspect.

For the record, I am AMERICAN. You can better see that if you remove your tin foil hat and lay off the pipe momentarily. Should those measures fail, a neuro-surgeon maybe of help.

Yours Truly,

Jeff

Chimp June 28, 2013 at 3:45 am

Yes, from the side it has a real Mirage thing going. From below, it reminds me a lot of the F-18; I guess that's the LERX. It's not really "ugly" per se. Utilitarian.

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Jeff June 28, 2013 at 8:38 pm

Well, the way Tigershark's nose tapers really strikes me as unnecessarily crude aesthetically. But hey, it's all subjective ;)

johnbbroke June 26, 2013 at 9:38 pm

Of course the Chinese aircraft resemble U.S. aircraft, can't point fingers how, so they must have stumbled across U.S. aircraft on the internet LOL.

A quote from Gen. Keith Alexander, Chief of U.S. Cyber Comman d and Dir of NSA said: That the loss of intellectual property due to cyber attacks amounts to the "greatest transfer of wealth in human history."

To me, that means they stold the farm, what probably cost the U.S. tax payer trillions they (whomever) got everything for nothing.

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Rest Pal June 28, 2013 at 11:31 am

"stold the farm"? trillions of dollars? LOL.

Put the crack pipe down, will ya.

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wellduh June 28, 2013 at 8:53 am

B.S. The US is intentionally giving China these designs. That is the only conclusion possible for hiring and rehiring Chinese nationals who aren't even naturalized at places that produce nuclear weapons. Then after being caught shipppng secrets one time that same person is rehired. For those of you who remember trends starting in 1990s.

Why? Hard to say what LSD dreams the State Department is working with. Chinese allies against Russians?

Or is it just DOD trying to get new toys faster. if enemy is falling behind in arms race …give them some of your designs that are going stale. F-22 Raptor was pushed through Congress based on rumors Chinese were copying upgraded F-15 with vector nozzles.

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Rest Pal June 28, 2013 at 11:25 am

Why would the Chinese want to copy the F-15 when they have been flying the Flanker, a superior fighter jet to F-15, since 1990? The Chinese are now making their versions of the Flankers with their own EW suites, avionics, and composite material.

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LoveUSA July 7, 2013 at 11:53 pm

That seems like a sensible hypotheses – the MIC manufacturing consent to build the next gen of war toys. Post WMD and that 15 yr fiasco in Mespotamia you would think we have learned a thing or two and not jump when the DOD screams bogeyman.

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crm114 June 29, 2013 at 2:29 am

They only look like the F16 if I ignore any actual pictures, close both eyes, and engage maximum imagination.

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NeoconBrony July 7, 2013 at 4:03 pm

If the Chinese did steal F-35 designs and they can actually get the damned thing to work, then props to them I guess.

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deko July 7, 2013 at 8:17 pm

Nobody would do that. It's easier and cheaper to start from scratch instead of fixing something someone else has designed. The Chinese seem to have already come up with a better jet – the twin engined J-31. It's sleek, with clearly smaller drag; coupled with two engines, it's going to be much faster and more maneuverable than the bulbous single-engined F-35.

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LoveUSA July 8, 2013 at 12:32 am

The USA is building a fighter bomber that evades radar, flies faster and thus able to drop precision munitions at will – an aircraft that will give it remarkable advantage if deployed in battle. That a foreign nation is trying to steal design and engineering secrets of this warbird by remarkable cyber spyware American become so incredulous and sanctimonious – well people what did you expect them to do? Isn't that what spy craft is for anyway? It is the game. Perhap we have watched too many Hollywood movies and the action hero spies are all too busy saving the world from evil instead of doing what is normal for spies – espionage!

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limhui July 14, 2013 at 12:15 pm

Well, just put it this way. All the world know that US is the culprit of computer hacking. Even its own citizens are treated as suspects. So much for land of the free. Anyway, now the US accused China of hacking its military secrets. My question is if the US is so good at its technology, how can its computer be hacked. Assuming China can access you computer, then don't you think China is superior than the US in computer. If this so, what make the US think that China can not make jet better than F-35? That's what happen when stupidity is combined with arrogance. The result is a country called the USA.

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LindaBodicea July 20, 2013 at 3:34 am

Since paper and gunpowder, the Chinese have invented nothing. They are not an innovative culture nor race. Lowest ratio of Nobel Prize winners per population outside of Africa.

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Henry October 7, 2013 at 10:20 pm

This isn't new. Look back at the US F-15, F-22, F-35, and they just look too much alike. Makes you think some designs are being shared, stolen, sold or something. It can't just be coincidence or the result of common logical technology.

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E.fulton November 26, 2013 at 2:20 am

The Chinese will always try to steal our tech just like we will take whatever new tech that we can use from any1 else. Can't be mad if u got a better pistol then me then I want yours but I see you looking at my rifle an try to hide it cause it far superior to yours…everyone wants the best…USA is jus used to haven it an need to remember envy an want move the world too

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E.fulton November 26, 2013 at 2:24 am

It has to do with people in general they are selfish meaning full of self..there is no United States anymore its just a hole lot of people out for self…no unity…no pride in country…an no praise from ur country rather. It's sad really

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Jaeger February 19, 2014 at 3:52 pm

fighter planes will be replaced by drones, and china is stealing it, let them, because the next stage of technological revolution is already being dreamed of by our young minds and will be made available in 20 years or so.

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Praetorian June 23, 2013 at 10:12 am

Most of America's first jet aircraft where powered with American turbojet engines that where designed before 1944 :

P-59 Airacomet – General electric J31-GE-3 ( the British engine )
FH-1 Phantom – Westinghouse J30-WE-20 turbojets ( first run March 1943 )
P-80 / F-80 Shooting Star – Allison J33-A-23 turbojet ( A lager version of the J31 started development in 1943 )
F-94 Starfire – Allison J33 ( same engine as P-80 )

All of these engines and Aircraft although not great, where produced with no German help.

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Jeff June 23, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Dude, you are missing the context of this thread, which is the supposition that those who copy cannot innovate. I disagree with that, thus naming the US as a prime example of those who copied to catch up and then went on to successfully innovate. We are not arguing over minute details on how US fighter jets in the immediate post-War period had engines that came from the Brits. The point is that those engines did come from the Brits initially, and after the Brits refused further 'assistance' after the war, the German scientists and engineers took over, and then after that, genuine 'natives' took the innovation baton and ran to the lead.

So yes, those who copy not only can innovate, but those who innovate often copied in the beginning.

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Jeff June 24, 2013 at 8:35 am

Obama beat you to it.

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Bradford June 29, 2013 at 2:39 pm

…I am honored that you took so much TIME, and ENERGY in replying…
"…cat's foot, iron claw, neuro-surgeons scream for more, at paranoias' poison door, 21st Century schizoid man…"~from King Crimson, 21stCentury Schizoid Man…
…I should have said it was MOSTLY a FedGov drill, staged by Craft, with MOSTLY actors…&thanks for keeping the "hippie" meme alive…

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Jeff June 29, 2013 at 10:11 pm

I take back what I said. A neuro-surgeon won't help. All you need is a padded room, a locked padded room with the key thrown away.

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Bradford June 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm

…lol…not really "rotflmfao" funny, but still…lol…lol…
…Thnx, Jeffy…

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brok3n July 1, 2013 at 3:26 am

"J-17 has a superior airframe in terms of aerodynamics, with LERX, DVI, not to mention superior avionics by the virtue of it being a much later creation. Moreover, it doesn't really resemble the F-20. "

Where is your evidence? Do you have aero charts to compare? Avionics data to support? All the reports coming from the PAF aren't exactly positive on the new A/C. And it doesn't resemble the F-20? You need to get your eyes checked along with your manners.

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Jeff July 1, 2013 at 5:17 am

Feel free to step into that padded room anytime now.

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Rest Pal July 5, 2013 at 3:48 pm

The Pakistani air force has reportedly conducted several combat exercises pitting the JF-17 against the F-16s, and the JF-17s won all the dogfights. The JF-17s cost less also.

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LoveUSA July 7, 2013 at 10:46 pm

Lets see now, the "foreign" Boston bomber kills three (too many) but true blue American patriot Timothy Mcveigh kills how many in Oklahoma City? Hundreds by my reckoning. So what is the point? Crazy deluded evil people exist regardless of race religion nation history etc etc. Your ranting is verging on the crazy and deluded. You are probably of the type the NSA is keeping tabs on so you don't blow up some first gen American patriots.

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