Home » News » The Defense Biz » FAA to Town: Please Don’t Shoot Down Drones

FAA to Town: Please Don’t Shoot Down Drones

by Mike Hoffman on July 22, 2013

thumb_tritoninflight3_1The Federal Aviation Administration felt the need to issue a statement Friday asking the general public not to shoot at drones flying over head as a small Colorado town is considering an ordinance urging townsfolk to shoot down unmanned aerial vehicles.

“Shooting at an unmanned aircraft could result in criminal or civil liability, just as would firing at a manned airplane,” the statement from the FAA read.

Officials from Deer Trail, Colo., are thinking about issuing $25 hunting licenses to shoot down drones. The town would even go further and award $100 to someone with a license who could provide proof that he shot down the drone.

FAA officials didn’t wait long to put a stop to that. The FAA pointed out Friday that it’s their job to determine who or what is allowed to fly over Deer Trail.

Phillip Steel of Deer Trail wrote the proposal and received 28 signatures on his petition. He said the hunters would target small civilian drones in fear the government was collecting surveillance on Deer Trail citizens.

He didn’t seem too worried about the FAA’s stance on his proposal.

“The FAA doesn’t have the power to make a law,” he told the Associated Press.

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{ 206 comments… read them below or add one }

USS ENTERPRISE July 22, 2013 at 6:46 pm

How can a town, pass as an ordinance, the ability for anyone to SHOOT DOWN PLANES? Not everyone can tell the difference between a manned and unmanned aircraft. This is ridiculous!

And for all you that are about to spurt out your constitutional rights, are you REALLY saying that SHOOTING DOWN AIRCRAFT is something you are entitled to?

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Thunder350 July 23, 2013 at 1:43 pm

If it's a violation of our constitutional rights. Yes.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember, or overthrow it." – Abraham Lincoln

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 2:13 pm

Yes, but the existing government is still obligated to crush the revolutionary, as Lincoln ended up doing.

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Misanthrophe2 July 23, 2013 at 2:52 pm

Dictator Lincoln certainly did not practice what he preached when it came to the Southerners who grew weary of the existing Yankee government. Karl Marx much admired Lincoln and urged him to create a strong totalitarian central government in America – so much easier to control the masses and create a Marxist utopian society in the United States. Deo Vindice!

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USS ENTERPRISE July 23, 2013 at 5:33 pm

So slavery is okay then? True, Lincoln didn't originally start the Civil War because of slavery; rather to protect the Union, but are you really saying that "dictator" is "evil"?

Boy, as a member of this "new generation of leaders" I am glad that I will eventually manage to straighten out these folk……

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SJE July 24, 2013 at 10:00 am

The S did not like the fact that the majority voted for an abolitionist, and threw a hissy. Without the 3/5ths compromise, the S would have been outvoted long before. Sorry, democracy requires that you don't always get your way, and can't secede when you lose an election.

I disagree that secession is never possible, but not under those circumstances.

Allen July 24, 2013 at 9:21 pm

People have a right to not be watched on their own property ENTERPRISE. If they shoot down a manned aircraft "what difference does it make?" comes to mind. Either way it's the pres trying to control people. Sorry, but I salute CO for this one. I would sign the petition, but nobody would care. That's the problem america, you're too stoned, too weak, or too stupid to know when you are being taken advantage of. Now, only the strong will survive.

P.S.- enterprise, you are a discredit to the navy AND my country. Shut Up.

USS ENTERPRISE July 23, 2013 at 5:28 pm

Have you gone mad? What has this country come to? Firstly, how are you going to shoot down a drone? What weapon would work, and be accurate? Next, you are now entitled to shoot down flying machines? Huh?

Lincoln never thought that aircraft were even a possibility during his presidency. My goodness, what has this country come to?

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allen July 24, 2013 at 9:29 pm

Lincolin was a sorry excuse for a waste of perfectly good O2. And yes Enterprise, we the people are very mad. You should be too. The fact that you defend the FAA shows that you support Marxism. You want to lick some hairy dude's butt for a living. Cuz that's what happens in a Marxist society. Have you ever noticed that you never see much from North korea? That's what Obama is going for. Now Shut Up- you don't defend the president, you defend the constitution. The president has commited MANY atrocities. His impeachment papers are being put through right now and he WILL be charged with war crimes, treason, and a good number of other really heinous things.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 10:50 pm

Oh great. Here comes the spreader of all that is true and correct. Guess what? Of course I am wrong; North Korea is a society we should strive for, and Iran is a byword for paradise. Lets prance around, and destroy America!

/sarc, dumba**

USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 10:50 pm

Oh, another thing "really heinous things". Yeah, can you shut up?

Dr. Horrible July 24, 2013 at 11:12 pm

Huh?

reidbecca July 25, 2013 at 3:49 pm

I want to see the people that can tell the diffrence between a manned aircraft and an unmanned aircraft at 1000 feet. I know some people can, but the vast majority of the populace wouldn't be able to.

When you start shooting at an aircraft with people in it, is that not attempted murder? Since when has that been ok?

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USS ENTERPRISE July 26, 2013 at 4:49 pm

THANK YOU!

You won't even be able to see the "drone" you are shooting at. Next thing you know, you have an Airbus on its fiery death path………

Lee July 24, 2013 at 2:02 am

You are forgetting that ALL AIR SPACE in this country is controlled by the FAA. Even a small aircraft, flying out of a small town field, has to file a flight plan with the FAA because "the sky is crowded ". Therefore, that ordinance would be illegal. Every so often, we hear about some idiot using a laser point to point at an aircraft, and they get thrown into jail for that, since it can temporarily blind a pilot.

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Iknowthetruth July 25, 2013 at 3:49 pm
Iknowthetruth July 25, 2013 at 3:49 pm
High S. July 23, 2013 at 3:57 pm

Ok, you have a point, If the hunter cannot tell the difference between a manned or unmanned aircraft, I would expect he not get the $100 bounty if he brings in a 'manned' drone.

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Pierre Noyed July 23, 2013 at 6:30 pm

I think hunting while you're drunk is probably already illegal and that is the only way someone is going to make the kind of mistake you suggest…unless it is a custom plane designed for midgets.

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 9:55 am

Yeah, no hunter has ever shot something then swear he thought it was something else. My brother's college roommate went home just before deer season for the annual fall ritual of painting the family horses.

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Ross August 9, 2013 at 1:05 pm

Creator given (not legislated!) – aka 'Civil' or ' Bill of Rights' cannot be changed by any law. if you believe that Creator given rights in America are something to question, let us start with the first; and, for that matter let us take up the part where Our Creator gave us the RIGHT (not "entitlement" as you so immaturely try to state…) NOT to be told where and when we can worship / or not worship. Only after you have conceded you and your families Right to worship, and all other 1st Amendment Rights, can we be able to have an intelligent discussion of the Creator Given (not Socialist government given!) 2nd Amendment. Any questions?

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Mike January 26, 2014 at 1:43 pm

your premise is stupid manned and unmanned aircraft can be easily determined

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Nadnerbus July 22, 2013 at 8:28 pm

To be fair, the FAA is regulatory agency, not a legislative body. Unless it is written in US or state law, their regulations are more suggestions, technically. Good luck with your personal finances while you defend yourself in court for the rest of your life though.

Did I miss something? Did the SCOTUS affirm a second amendment right to MANPADS? How will anyone shoot down an aircraft with small arms, when they are out of range pretty much the entire time except take off and landing?

Also, slight paranoia. I doubt big brother has much interest in Dear Trail Colorado. The IRS might, though.

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SJE July 22, 2013 at 10:23 pm

Wrong. The Congress grants to regulatory agencies the power to make laws. The FAA has certain powers and duties, and I'd bet that this is within those powers and duties.

The agencies can grow to multi-headed hydras of regulation, but then again I am not so impressed with Congress's ability to get things done. Look at military procurement, where any big project requires that every Congressional district have a finger in the pie.

The other thing is that the agencies have a body of expertise. Do you want Congress deciding whether a specific plane is airworthy?

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EW3 July 22, 2013 at 10:56 pm

"Do you want Congress deciding whether a specific plane is airworthy?"

Absolutely yes.
I can fire the people in Congress, but I have no recourse to do the same at FAA.

This kind of thinking is why the USA is going downhill so fast.
Unelected people making decisions about how we live (and die).

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 8:46 am

Unelected works for the military and the free market. Unelected doesn't work well in politics, however.

The civil service can still be poisoned with patronage at the top, even if they've made inroads into purging it from the base of the pyramid in government.

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EW3 July 23, 2013 at 11:33 am

The free market has a feedback system (control) as we can elect to not buy from them.

In theory, the military is under control of elected civilian authority.

Why do we need domestic drones ?
I can see it on the borders as a defense issue. But why anywhere else?

SJE July 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm

The People have the power to vote for a Congress that has the power to kill the regulatory agencies. I;ve known politicians and regulators. I'm more afraid of the politicians.

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Wrong. Congress cannot grant legislative power to regulatory agencies. No regulatory agency has law-making power. They can, however, promulgate rules to implement and enforce laws created by Congress, subject to Constitutional challenge.

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bulldurham48 July 23, 2013 at 10:29 am

Its not the fact of shooting one down, its the fact we might need to. Simpler to shoot the SOB's that are sending them, and far more efficient.

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Jastar July 23, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Thunder350 July 23, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Insurance companies would just use Google Maps for free… or other satellite services.

But yes, farmers do use UAVs. But normally a different type when compared to surveillance drones.

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 2:12 pm

Google Maps is usually a few years old, but it's free.

A UAV with an infrared camera to watch crops is always nice. They're also quite useful to detect when someone is clearing land in a forest and growing marijuana plants, so the DEA probably has a line on them too.

USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 4:24 pm

Farmer UAVS pack pesticides, and supporter of the green movement will tell ya' that kills you to!

Jastar July 23, 2013 at 1:16 pm
littlefoot July 25, 2013 at 7:14 am
Spunkmeyer July 25, 2013 at 4:10 am

Welcome to the ignorance of living in the middle of nowhere. I'm sure they have a lot of time on their hands.

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Lance July 22, 2013 at 9:08 pm

This will make American want to shoot drones down even more now LOL!!!!!!!!!

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Rob C. July 22, 2013 at 9:19 pm

Good lord, those people are friggin stupid. Hopefully, they won't try shoot down the bigger ones that could actually crash and kill someone. Neverminds all those bullets missing and landing god knows where.

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 8:46 am

When bullets start coming down and hitting cars and children, they'll just assume the government is shooting back.

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JE McKellar July 23, 2013 at 10:59 pm

You need to get the shotgun shells with the VT fuses.

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Amused July 23, 2013 at 4:23 am

HAHAHAHA This is hillarious. Im so glad i live in the UK. You yankies really need to get a grip.

At least you last 2 commentors seem to have some perspective.

Have a nice day y'all

I hope a drone doesnt fall on your head ;)

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Liam July 23, 2013 at 3:06 pm

I feel we are going the way of the UK in that surveillance in public areas is common but you people don't seem to mind the intrusion. The citizens of Deer Trail live a life style that is fast becoming adopted by many Americans. I don't want a government that is constantly monitoring my every move, I also think our fellow countrymen who actually monitor these eyes in the sky will abuse the privilege, hell we have traffic cameras that are not calibrated correctly and people are getting tickets in the mail that they don't deserve. God only knows what type of possible crimes the feds will dream up to justify the use of aerial surveillance. Bit by bit our freedom has eroded just like our kin in the UK, at least we are still armed.

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XYZ July 23, 2013 at 5:20 pm

How about trying to convince your fellow citizens to vote out the politicians responsible for these things, instead of resorting to your guns. The system only works if you're willing to use it instead of your gun.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 11:03 am

Applause from me…….

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 11:54 pm

Was the country founded by voting or gun fight? The second amendment is there for a very good reason. Take a look at the corrupt, incompetent politicians the voters have put in power over the years. Is it getting better or worse?

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USS ENTERPRISE July 27, 2013 at 8:18 pm

Key phrase there: voters. Its all on the voters. You all can mumble, complain, and try to mount a siege on Washington; but in the end, who put those folks in office?

James July 23, 2013 at 3:17 pm

You just remember one thing Amused……We Yankees made up of farmers school teachers, builders, farm hands, hunters, and slaves, went up against the most well trained Military in the WORLD! and WE THE PEOPLE, BEAT YOUR ROYAL A$$'s Remember 1776

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joe July 24, 2013 at 4:32 am

Technically the french did. But what the hey.

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Thomas L. Nielsen July 24, 2013 at 5:25 am

Why not join the rest of us in the 21st century? It's nice here – we have cookies.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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PLG July 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm

Forget the revolution. If we had not gone over there in WW2 the old Nazi's would have chewed them up and spit them out. They know what we did for them and I would say 99.9 present are thank full we saved there ass.

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Kim July 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm

Funny thing that such a comment comes from a Brit, considering that the UK probably has the world's largest number of surveillance cameras per capita.

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SJE July 24, 2013 at 9:55 am

The amount of surveillance in London dwarfs anything the NSA does. Then you have the nanny state councils telling you what and what not to do in minute level.

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 11:38 pm

The US will catch up fast and then surpass the UK. American voters guarantee it.

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garydm July 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm

What kind of cookies? Seriously, is this town STUPID? Oh, sorry, the town already answered that. As for our commentator from the UK, I trained with Her Majesties soldiers in the 1970's-1980's good people and good soldiers. Have a pint for me, Guinness ROCKS!!!!!

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oldbrokendownretiree July 24, 2013 at 2:24 pm

The comment by amused is exactly the way we are viewed by the rest of the planet; as an undisciplined, ignorant people who couldn't find our but with both hands because we are so self absorbed with our own "right" to do whatevr we feel. Unfortunately, due to our actions and lackluster "leaders" we seem to be deserving of the scorn and ridcule. I am depressed :-(

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haha oh wow August 1, 2013 at 1:46 am

Oh you mean you live in an Orwellian land of CCTV and stab-proof knives? Talk about pot meet kettle.

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Tony C. July 23, 2013 at 6:16 am

This is really funny. The drones will be at altitudes that make the town ordinance useless. This is the prevailing atitude of alot of people out west, no government surveilance or interference allowed. It's a western tradition, that's why they went west.

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Thunder350 July 23, 2013 at 1:50 pm

Domestic surveillance drones are just slightly bigger then your average civilian RC drones. These aren't the big drones the military uses flying @ 20,000 feet. They fly fairly low and slow.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 2:53 pm

Targets that shouldn't be shot at. I wonder how many of those civilians actually know how to shoot down drones, what they look like, what weapons to use, and how to put out a forest fire after the fuel on board sets the trees on fire………

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Tom Hamilton July 28, 2013 at 4:56 am

Any fool knows that this isn't about shoot down drones. it is a STATEMENT to the govt. about spying on everyday citizens, and all the erosion of constitutional personal freedom experienced by U.S. citizens since 9/11

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Dfens July 23, 2013 at 7:05 am

Time to buy a .50 cal.

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tee July 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm

No just drag out that old 10 gauge, 36 in. barrel Goose Gun grandpa left you :-)

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Dfens July 23, 2013 at 7:12 pm

But the .50 BMG is just so cool! I love the opening scene in Shooter when Wahlberg's character knocks that helicopter out of the sky with the .50.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 2:53 pm

Rubber band gun might work. It'd be safer anyways…….

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Dfens July 25, 2013 at 12:11 am

Sure, a rubber band drone would be safer too.

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Musson July 23, 2013 at 8:53 am

There were two drones flying over Charleston Harbor during my last visit there. One was an octocopter and the other was some sort of pusher flying wing design about 6 feet across.

I could have taken out both with a good deer rifle as they flew over the Marina. So, these smaller drones could be shot down pretty easily. But, let's face it – I never would have even seen a Global Hawk or a Predator.

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hibeam July 23, 2013 at 10:40 am

Define easily. Or you going to care where your missed rounds land?

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Steve July 23, 2013 at 10:18 pm

What about over water don't you get? Goddamn you couldn't wait to cry could you? waaaaaaaaaa!

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 10:02 am

Well landlubber, by definition a marina in water but adjacent to land, usually an inhabited area with significant water traffic. Again another retard who does not understand or care about what might be down range.

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??? July 26, 2013 at 4:13 pm

Since you'd be shooting at a relatively steep upward angle, by the time the bullets come down, how much energy would they have lost? A lot? A little?

DaveH July 30, 2013 at 5:00 pm

Those "UAVs" are just someones hobby craft. Shooting that down will do nothing but violate the pursuit of happiness of 1 individual. If, and a big if, it even had a camera on it, its not for spying, its for guidance of the aircraft. So everyone can stop being paranoid of anything that goes up in the air.

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Richard Bunn July 23, 2013 at 9:45 am

Not sure why the good people of Deer Trail are so upset with drones. The FAA has been working to integrate drones into the national airspace system for a while. My fear is that someone will mistake a Cessna/Piper/Grumman American/etc for a drone and kill a family on vacation. Would they shoot at a manned survaillance aircraft?

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 11:42 am

Yes.

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gary July 23, 2013 at 5:32 pm

an ercoupe comes close to the same size as an unmanned but Im not flying out to colorado anytime soon anyway, oh wait my coupe might not get that high.

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Namvet July 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm

Dam right

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hibeam July 23, 2013 at 10:39 am

Drones can shoot back. And should.

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Thomas L. Nielsen July 23, 2013 at 11:50 am

"Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over".

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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ruger July 23, 2013 at 2:20 pm

They are flown by people who live somewhere too! Just because this technology is ahead of our constitutional tyranny dais, doesn't mean the govt isn't and shouldn't be limited. I think the first drone shooting in a local community sans 4th Amendment protections is more that a big problem. State and local control is easy, it's the Feds; who are supposed to be the one's who are regulated / limited to what they can do to us.

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JCitizen July 23, 2013 at 10:29 pm

don't forget that it is not just the 4rth, but also the 5th, and 10th Amendments that are affected by over-reach of surveillance. The media chumps use the lame term "privacy"; but we are talking RIGHTS here. I refuse to use the term privacy at all.

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 10:04 am

Good because the word "privacy" appears nowhere in the Constitution.

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blight_ July 24, 2013 at 11:11 am

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

Indeed, it's liberal judges and their interpretation of "the right of the people to be secure[...]against unreasonable searches and seizures" that creates this false expectation of privacy. It greatly hinges on "unreasonable".

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 11:42 am

Proposed: An Ordinance Concerning Ordnance Directed at Aerial Craft

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ForrestCantrell July 23, 2013 at 4:16 pm

Finally! Someone who knows the difference between "ordinance" and "ordnance". Kudos.

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Buzzfriendly July 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm

When you beg the government to do something like manage your healthcare or gun control they assume and rightfully so that you are happy with government intervention into your lives. The government certainly doesn't see any of these items as being different and neither do I. So why not enjoy your 32oz cup of government in your life. After all you asked for it.

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smcmf July 24, 2013 at 1:39 am

Couldn't agree with you more. The AHoles of America LOVE giving up their freedom, begging big brother to dominate them. They deserve EVERYTHING they get for being such stupid aholes.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm

…said the North Korean……

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69Cougar July 27, 2013 at 5:55 pm

What about those of us that did not ask for the Gov to manage our healthcare or especially gun control. Why should we have to allow The GOV to take our rights away from us.

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John moore July 23, 2013 at 12:40 pm

Shooting into the air is just asking for trouble anyways

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ruger July 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm

Unlike waterfowl, they can be shot on the ground. Americans are more than capable of developing homemade AA devices, could use other drones to knock them out, or …the solutions are only limited to the irritation they cause to the American population

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BlueBeard July 24, 2013 at 10:40 pm

Not according to Biden. He encourages you fire two shotgun blasts out the window to discourage the criminals attacking you.

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hibeam July 23, 2013 at 1:23 pm

If they would fly these things over south Chicago maybe we could think about making it a part of America again.

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ron July 23, 2013 at 2:28 pm

I own guns and a lot of them, And I do believe in my constitutional rights to do so within the law. That law does not include taking down aircraft , manned or Not. That would cause a extreme hazard to people on the ground and for what? Who really gives a crap what these people are doing here unless they are really doing something wrong and in that case maybe they should be watched. And I seriously doubt these people would even have to have the capacity to even know if a drown was in the area much less take one down. Its freaking wacko's like this that jeopardize 2nd amendment for all of us non wacko's

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JNR1000 July 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm

Agreed,but why waste the time and money on useless survellence when it can be used at the boarder or to catch and keep up with drug dealers running on the streets of american cities, just saying….

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oldbrokendownretiree July 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm

Good post Ron, totally agree

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@HarryInventor July 26, 2013 at 8:10 am

I've heard about americans like you.

All '2nd' this and 'magic god-given rights' that… but as much use as a bar of soap to a Texan!

It is just such laws that will put paid to your silly gun fetish. Only soldiers fighting the enemy should have them… just like it says in your Constipation… sorry 'Constitution', if you care to actually try to UNDERSTAND it and the reasoning behind it rather than taking the hick 18th century lawyer speak literally!

'Bear arms'? I'm surprised you don't carry bits of stuffed Grizzly around in a canvas bag!! Americans… lol

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Jay Michael Devereaux February 4, 2014 at 11:12 am

So when the government is operating outside the constitution we should all sit quietly on our hands and do nothing? Brother, you need to get a better understanding of why the 2nd amendment was put there in the first place. It's obvious to anyone paying attention that this government is way out of control, not just this issue but nearly all aspects of it. But it's not the big drones used in combat that are the threat to privacy, it's the smaller low flying toy size ones that are and a simple shotgun can take those out. The big ones fly way too high to be taken down by civilian arms and can't peek in your windows.

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Jerry July 23, 2013 at 3:06 pm

Where are the bullets going to land? Most likely no where near a human or anything of value. You do realize that we are talking about a deer trail right? But in general your a pussy fuck the police and like it or not you lazy Americans a storm is coming and it will be the young generations that’s kicks your asses out! Maybe not a revolution but a civil war

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ruger July 23, 2013 at 4:55 pm

The young generation in America is lazy, prone to long stents in mommy's basement and are typically afraid of guns; as they were conditioned to be by the school depts. They talk more than they accomplish. Their whinny tone and indignation is representative of how they talk to their mommy; i.e.: she let's them talk that way to her and has protected them from Darwin. Delusional fantasies about a mythical young generation willing to suffer real pain or knows nature, does not exist; …and is well out of context for DT.

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Pierre Noyed July 23, 2013 at 6:24 pm

I, like many "old folks" have a lot more guns and ammo than the young punks with attitude. I also have a job that allows me to buy more guns and ammo. What do the young folks have over me? They can run faster.

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 7:52 pm

They'll die tired, and taste better too when the Hunger Times set in.

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James August 21, 2013 at 7:54 pm

Do you say that about where are the bullets landing whenever you see on the News that the POLICE are in a shoot out! or are they EXEMPT! you better worry about what your Government is doing to you’re Water!!

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JNR1000 July 23, 2013 at 3:38 pm

You brits need not worry about us ,you have problems of your own.Islam is turning your country into a Muslim state.We got this!Protect your soldiers!

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ChuckL July 23, 2013 at 3:46 pm

The problem is not with the drones, but with the Federal Government Administration's penchant to collect all information that it can collect without following the law and obtaining a court order from a ourt that we can appeal to to prevent or revoke the permission to spy on us.

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Keegan July 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm

You hit the nail on the head. Blanket surveillance without a court order is illegal. However, shooting down aircraft is not the way to stop it.

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ron July 23, 2013 at 11:07 pm

what are you doing? They are not reading the emails you send your wife or girlfriend or even both. And even if they are deal with it.. It's electronic and can be tracked by anyone. Do you want your Govt. doing it to keep you safe or not., I am sure there are other interested people in your personal life who, you might not even know I understand there is a really fine line. But you put it out there.

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Jacob July 24, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Well then I guess we have to answer the question: is it legal to have cameras at busy intersections to prevent people from running red lights? Or is it legal to have cameras on police helicopters to track criminals? We do both of these things…so why not mount a camera on an unmanned aircraft? The only thing that makes the UAV different from the police helicopter is that it's cheaper to operate and it has a much greater endurance in the air. Do those attributes alone mean that police departments should be barred from using drones?

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Keegan July 26, 2013 at 10:57 am

I have no problem with them putting cameras on UAVs to track criminals. My problem is when they decide to do it without a court order.

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Chris July 23, 2013 at 4:23 pm

Great! Be an Ace in your own backyard.

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BillP July 23, 2013 at 4:32 pm

How do you cook 'em???

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Thomas L. Nielsen July 24, 2013 at 3:43 am

Waddyamean "cook 'em"? Everyone knows Real Men (TM) eat their drones raw. With lime juice. And beer.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Jake August 21, 2013 at 6:44 pm

would look pretty impressive mounted on a wall

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Joe Blow July 23, 2013 at 5:13 pm

Nothing better to practice with than that of a moving target in the sky. Lasers help also.

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Ain'tLifeGreat! July 23, 2013 at 6:04 pm

While flying my rented Piper J-3 as a young teen, I spotted a naked fat lady sun-bathing behind a fence in her backyard. Scared the crap out of me. Except when on final approach, I never look down anymore. :-)

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Ashshie July 25, 2013 at 3:50 am

Ain’tLifeGreat!

Funny! I guess that was a mentally ill lady then.

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Jim July 23, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Unless the shooter can positively identify the drone as a drone, they are "playing with fire" to try and shoot it down, as it could be a small passenger plane with people on board. My other issue with this is DO THESE SHOOTERS actually KNOW where the bullets they are firing into the air are going when they start their downward trajectory? Is it possible they will be hitting people whom they DO NOT know, just because it seems like a good idea to shoot at drones?

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JCitizen July 23, 2013 at 10:33 pm

I've more than once witnessed a bare miss of a manned plane by rocket club enthusiasts, despite logging a FAA flight plan for their activity. Seems to me that missiles would be more effective than guns. Just sayin'. : \

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Dfens July 24, 2013 at 10:33 am

It's pretty simple to rig a seeker, especially these days.

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Get Real July 24, 2013 at 6:23 pm

I call B.S.

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ron July 23, 2013 at 11:25 pm

I will be naked in my backyard tomorrow at 12:03pm . FLY OVER COME AND GET ME. Lets see if I show up in the news. most of you freaking people are crazy and have no idea and you need too get a life oh, wait that's why you are worried about this. I would post my phone number for the Govt. to get me but it would problely be one of you wacko' s that called.

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MelvinB July 24, 2013 at 1:48 am

Drones will now be armed and able to counter any attempt at a shoot down. They will need to do this autonomously and so it will be inevitable that they become self aware and start to do their own thing….

Now talk about unintended consequences….. LOL

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Thomas L. Nielsen July 24, 2013 at 3:46 am

One word: Skynet!

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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Shelly Ann July 24, 2013 at 1:50 am

No one seems to be able to answer one simple. Were will all those rounds that are fired into the sky at a "drone" land? I can answer it, this 4th of July found several spent rounds in the street gutter, the bed of my pick-up & a couple lodged in the roof of my house. It costs me a couple of thousand dollars a year to have my roof repaired.

You gun nuts are your own worst enemy, when it concerns gun control. If those laws get passed, they will hurt those of us who use our weapons responsibly the most. When those drones fall from the sky and crash into someone's house or car or into the play set in the back yard where their kids were playing and kills some kids, then there will be an out cry to take the weapons away from us.

As-salaamu 'alaikum
RAK,
Et secundum diversitatem unitatis pro scientiam
LPN/ret, HM2c(FMF)/USN, Sgt/USAR, ACM/olc, CWVet, VNeVet, GWVet

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T.TEF July 24, 2013 at 6:59 am

WOW !!! What a country!!

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... July 27, 2013 at 10:52 am

Greatest on Earth

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Steve July 24, 2013 at 7:54 am

Has anyone told these town folk that these drones can/could carry Hellfire missiles? We been using these drones to take out the talaban for years. So you sure you want to bring a pea shooter to this fight?Because most likely these "drones" are re-purposed/over-stocked MQ-9 Reaper drones which have the capability to carry missiles.

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guy July 27, 2013 at 10:53 am

Yes. Since clearly the best way to show citizens that drones are just as harmless as commercial aircraft is to arm them with missiles and then blow up a redneck…

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Amazed July 24, 2013 at 9:26 am

Hmm, this would be a really funny story if it wasn't true!!! I can picture a bunch of DA rednecks with rifles taking target practice on drones, they are lauging and having a great time untill the drone crashes into an elementry school, and sets it ablaze.

Or how about that rifle bullet that comes down and takes out a wife or kid…Even to put that type of information out to the public should be criminal..

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RDHMLM July 24, 2013 at 9:26 am

I understand that people are afraid and upset that comments were made to use the drones to “spy” on Americans. The outlash that has come from these statements are huge. I however think people have forgotten all the good that drones can do. Remember the 5 yr old little boy on Ky that was saved after he was kidnapped and taken underground, it was a drone that finally gave the accruate view for authorities to help. Drones keep more of our pilots and soliders safe since they do not have to fly into an area and get shot down and soliders don’t have to get in a shot out since they also don’t need to be there.

Let’s resonably think about this…really shooting an aircraft, manned or unmanned, down is not a good idea and should be illegal. All anyone is thinking of is negative but if someone should go ahead and do this has anyone thought of the lives that can be lost or injured when that big thing in the sky comes crashing to earth. Be smart people, personally I think this is completely ridiculous that people wanted to do this much less they had to be told they will go to jail if they did. What happened to folks with common sense anymore? Think touchy feely country and don’t do this because it will hurt someone’s feeling, or don’t watch what I am doing, give illegal immagrants a free ride…this is what is bringing our country down. As for the drones…spy away because if someone is so worried about being watched then they probably should be watched more closely, those doing nothing wrong should not care.

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blight_ July 24, 2013 at 9:39 am

"spy away because if someone is so worried about being watched then they probably should be watched more closely"

Indeed, Sam Adams, Paul Revere and those kooky "civil liberties" guys were just nutbags. Should've been hanged for thinking people were entitled to silly things like freedom instead of obedience to the divine right of the Hanover/Saxe-Gothas to rule over them.

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elmondohummus July 24, 2013 at 9:30 am

Everyone's posting such serious comments. Where's the fun? I, for one just want to know more about a community where the local government thinks the citizenry has the firepower to shoot down a drone. :D

Old hunter: "Yep… I got these here Afghan-Soviet-war era Stingers for a discount. Works great for huntin' geese…"
Other hunter: "I need to get me some of those. These WWII era Bofors guns just tear the geese up somethin' awful."

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Craig A. Moore July 24, 2013 at 9:39 am

When PETA and HSUS start flying the little ones over farms, ranches, feedlots and HUNTERS a lot of you are going to change your minds on where drones can and do fly.

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Thomas L. Nielsen July 24, 2013 at 10:51 am

When that happens I'll be more worried about being crapped on by one of the pigs flying in formation with them.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

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blight_ July 24, 2013 at 11:02 am

Not really. We had reconaissance photos of Auschwitz and it didn't faze us a bit. Unless they have drones that can drop bombs to "free the animals" (and ironically killing them in the process…)

Won't be long before people design jamming devices for COTS drones.

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Praetorian July 24, 2013 at 10:44 am

Are you depressed by drones? Harassed by hovercopters? Don't be afraid, because now there's 'Mr. Sidewinder'! Made with the same high technology used by the Israeli Air Defense Force, Mr. Sidewinder is guaranteed to take out every drone, every time! Never be bothered by unwanted drone snooping again! And if you act now, we'll double yoour order! Yes, that's two, count 'em, two Mr. Sidewinders for the low price of only $56,000!

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psywar7 July 24, 2013 at 2:32 pm

I believe the ordinance states that only shotguns can be used to shoot at the drones. Bird-shot will fall from the sky, not bullets.

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Jacob July 24, 2013 at 8:41 pm

If drones were vulnerable to most small arms fire, Afghanistan and Pakistan would be littered with UAV wreckage.

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Luke July 24, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Lasers.

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Lawrence Ekdahl, July 24, 2013 at 10:57 pm

The question to ask is: who authorized these drones to fly over small towns and for what reason?

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Fatfinger July 24, 2013 at 11:54 pm

So if a peeping tom was to take pictures of your wife undressing its OK?

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Purple Falcon July 25, 2013 at 2:55 am

Some commenters are way too serious. If it all wasn't a joke, it shoulda been. BillP has it right (How do you cook 'em???).

Most commenters (and readers) have no clue how difficult it is to shoot down a flying object (identified or not). I visited Hanoi frequently during the Vietnam War, and they tried to get me to stay, using 57 mm and 80 mm "bullets" (not to mention ground-to-air missiles). And nary a scratch (they did get lucky with some others, once in a while) – lucky also for me, I guess, since I didn't fancy their accommodations and cuisine.

It was a humorous proposal, that will never go anywhere officially.

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Weapons Loader July 25, 2013 at 3:23 pm

First, Thank you for your service. If you were a Phantom Jock, maybe I loaded the Mk82's,Aim7's and Aim9's you delivered to "Uncle Ho". (F-4 Load Toad)

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Vic July 25, 2013 at 8:46 am

The FAA cannot write laws…only suggest some be written. That being said, this is a very dumb thing to do…tell the people of America not to shoot down the drones. I will say this though, if the government keeps going down the cesspool with loss of rights I know what the revolution will start with….these illegal collection devices called drones!!!
Drones are useful..yes…very much so but to use them to collect information on everyone is wrong. I have nothing to hide but feel the gov't should not collect anything on me without me knowing about it. Drones can be used to find lost hikers, fugitives ect…

Now seriously folks, if I were to shoot one down what website contains the information on how to cook one? baaaaahaaaaaa

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 1:09 pm

You have already lost the right to be anti-government. If you insist, you are by definition a terrorist, and the government can arrest and detain you indefinitely (thanks to the so-called Patriot's Act, a.k.a. Anti-Constitution Act).

How much more do you need to lose before taking actions?

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blight_ July 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm

They'll just call it Homeland Clear Skies Protection Act and the idiots will pass it.

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bitchin July 25, 2013 at 9:26 am

these people are on drugs

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aed939 July 25, 2013 at 10:05 am

The folks in Deer Park have a reasonable argument, The FAA technically has authority over all outdoor airspace to ground level above all private property–even where manned aircraft cannot fly safely, such as below treetop level and the airspace under your garden trellis and carport. There needs to be a modification so that private property owners own the airspace up to a reasonable safe distance above treetop level–perhaps 400 feet?–This airspace should be considered to be part of the curtilage of the property owner's "castle," whereby any of the bird-size drones or smaller should not trespass, and law enforcement should get a warrant from a judge to enter this private airspace. I think it is this low-altitude airspace and the bird-sized drones that the folks had in mind at Deer Trail, for shooting down–with a shotgun, and only in a manner that is safe for neighbors. We are not talking about surface-to-air missiles to shoot predators flying at 10,000 feet.

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C141B July 25, 2013 at 1:25 pm

Only criminals have something to hide. They should be investigated. Who else shoots at our drones? Taliban. They can fly over my house anytime and I might take a picture of them.

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blight_ July 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm

Everyone says that…until the laws change and suddenly you become a criminal.

Gold star for the shoulder!

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Uncle Bill July 25, 2013 at 5:26 pm

I think we need to differentiate between big drones, like the predators that DHS is having reprogrammed to spot men carrying rifles and the smaller ones that can look in windows and such and are used by animal rights terrorists to harass hunters.
The small ones can be taken down with a shotgun with minimal danger to anyone. The bigger ones though are going to require some serious work by citizen engineers to take down.

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Jim July 25, 2013 at 5:39 pm

Extreme comments in a a non-situational context are symptoms of fear and distrust. Our government professes to be representative, but delegates good ideas to people with the authority of the 'King' to implement them. These delegates are NOT the people. They are people with their own agendas and involved in they're own livelihood, sanctioned by a very busy government. DNR walking wherever on your land, FEDS with unlimited investigative powers, invasive trespassers protected by their 'right' to, what, exist? Should we wonder why a community would offer a bounty on 'False Eagles'. What good is delved from this surveillance, other than that the fact that they can do it- and justify the job (and the income)?

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@HarryInventor July 26, 2013 at 8:00 am

No, usa… don't dispel our view that you are parochial, primitive, gun-happy dolts slowly trying to move forward into the 18th century while using the fruits of superior European technology, as made in Asia!

Shoot at the drones for all I care, usa!
Who's EVER going to know it was you?

A pilot may hear bullets whizzing past his cockpit or hitting his plane and look down.
A drone suddenly stops transmitting a video stream to the uniformed illiterate back at the bunker or spirals into the ground for 'no reason'.

The shooter will remain safe and unknown forever.

Keep eating them 'freedom fries' and telling yourself the dollar will be the world's reserve currency forever… BTW how are bankrupt Detroit, CA and several other major amer'oid non-work-unit habitation zones doing? Do remind me!

I like to get all my lols in at once… it saves time!

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Got One July 26, 2013 at 11:02 am

Hope the Global Hawk you shoot down doesn't land on your house, cuz you'll be homeless.

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Rest Pal July 26, 2013 at 12:17 pm

The Global Hawk is just a flying robot. It's not vengeful or evil, unlike the vicious, lawless officials of the US government.

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country gone to pot July 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm

Most of you do not know that when a projectile is fired into the air and returns back down it does not have the same velocity. Which is why bullets dont kill people when fired up into the air.. I am sure some of you will try to argue the point, but just remember, physics and facts, not opnion..

And yes, all survalence drones should be shot down, invasion of privacy

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Rest Pal July 26, 2013 at 8:08 pm

Exactly. Shoot them down, or take over the control and have some fun with them before crashing them into the ground. The US government is getting more and more lawless under the excuse of its phony "war on terror".

The biggest terrorist in the world right now, in my humble but justifiable opinion, is the US government.

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Guest July 28, 2013 at 11:23 pm

Perhaps, but there is more than sufficient velocity to kill….

I was hit by a stray round from a firefight almost 8 miles away when
I was in Nam….

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Jimbo July 29, 2013 at 4:41 pm

I know several people in Iraq who were nearly killed by AK rounds fired from several thousand meters away at high angle. They might not be as powerful as direct hit but still have enough terminal energy to produce a nice sucking chest wound. Fact not opinion.

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dieboy July 26, 2013 at 6:52 pm

LOL you guys get so heated. If you all would have bothered to follow the story from the begining….

They mayor said, I know its against the law to pass the ordinance. They wanted to put their town on the map. Its a town of like 50 people or some crap. Simple as that, now we're all talking about it. Go figure.

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Chris July 27, 2013 at 7:14 am
Chris July 27, 2013 at 7:14 am
Chris July 27, 2013 at 7:15 am
Chris July 27, 2013 at 7:16 am
Chris July 27, 2013 at 7:16 am
tj44553 July 27, 2013 at 1:33 pm

ok so to the people who think we can legally shoot planes, does that mean we can legally shoot/blow up military equipment? so according to your logic, i can shoot at any Humvees around? or if it only applies to things in air, can i shoot people on bogo sticks???? this makes no sense

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ron July 27, 2013 at 6:18 pm

i'm 75, and think this is funny as hell. why worry about drones? they have a thousand ways to watch us if they choose. but as for shooting them down ………. HELL YES …………………………………… PULL!!!!!!!!!!

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Just me July 27, 2013 at 8:18 pm

They taste like chicken…

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The guardian July 27, 2013 at 10:52 pm

I wonder what would happen if the citizens were to fly the same little four bladed electric helicopters like they're talking about over and into Area 51? After all they didn't mention that on their signs around the desert about Americans not being able to do it? They blocked off entire mountains and mountain sides that were able to have a better look down into the area. They can block regular air craft from flying over, but if you take one of these toys they aren't your regular regulated air craft, they're toys and should be technically exempt from restrictions they post around there right ? After all they're talking about taking the same ones that this is all about over our yards? I'd like to have one of those little spy helicopter or whisper glider things die out of battery power and crash on my property.

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Willy July 28, 2013 at 3:36 pm

It's always something…

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HERKEY ANDERSON July 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm

WOULD LOVE LOVE LOVE TO SHOOT ONE DOWN!!!! I WOULD DO IT FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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spalmajr July 28, 2013 at 5:20 pm

It's obvious the town does not understand the service ceilings for these drones. The Global Hawk depicted is a bit over 60,000 feet and Predators your looking at 30,000 + feet. The town has an elevation on 5,300 feet so you figure it out.
I think its an expression of frustration that is better expressed at the polls come 2014.

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anengineer July 30, 2013 at 12:58 am

What goes up must come down, as in bullets.

So the FAA should contact the towns insurance providers, I am sure that there is some way they could refuse coverage for acts of stupidity.

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Michael July 30, 2013 at 10:43 am

LOL so as has been stated there is no way that they would be able to shoot down a preditor or other such drones. However it would be easy to shoot down small remote controlled flyers such as hobby planes or the ones the infantry use like the raven. Also every one is talking about shooting them with rifles and how that is a bad idea anyone ever heard of a shotgun? Not saying that its a good idea but come on…

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DaveH July 30, 2013 at 5:07 pm

What people need to realize is that most "Drones" are hobbyists and videos are not taken of the ground, and people are not observed. If one of my multi thousand dollar aircraft get shot down by some dumb person, you better believe there will be a very violent assult follwed by a ransom to replace my destroyed aircraft. We are not spying on anyone and are just out for a little fly.

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Micheal August 4, 2013 at 5:17 am

shooting at a drone would be so stupid, I don't think the government would be to concerned about labeling someone who does and enemy combatant and firing back. you would also just be hitting yourself in the back pocket drones cost tax payers millions of dollars.

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jed August 4, 2013 at 1:08 pm

Hmmm… sounds more like a protest against government interference in the lives of everyday folks without being invited. Surely no one seriously thinks shooting them down will do any good. Better to find the ops base and take that out. If one were so inclined……

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Jake August 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Jake August 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Jake August 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm
JR August 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm
JR August 7, 2013 at 7:52 pm
Name September 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm

Bullets won't get them but rockets will. They can't fly through nets can they.

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Alexander Levenko December 3, 2013 at 10:13 pm

Stop feeling so important. The government doesn't care about your monotonous day to day lives.

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Steve January 12, 2014 at 10:00 am

where's deertail?
BTW, who would want to be named after an animal's ass?

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 11:41 am

"The free market has a feedback system (control) as we can elect to not buy from them."

Only works if enough people jump on that band-wagon to encourage behavioral changes, or if the people that jump on that bandwagon are actually important. If a thousand vegans boycott you, that's just a thousand vegans. If a single investor representing a billion dollars of pension fund decides to pull out…though now that I think about it, you did say /free market/, not /democracy/.

"In theory, the military is under control of elected civilian authority. "
Shockingly, it's worked alright for us.

"Why do we need domestic drones ?
I can see it on the borders as a defense issue. But why anywhere else?"
It kind of goes back to cops and cops with lots of Stuff.

Since the '90s even, when the DoD has quietly dumped extra hardware on law enforcement; to the point where police have hardware that would make small countries blush. Maui police needing a Bearcat? Really?

Drones is the next step from there. We'll just fly drones with FLIR over every home, observing our population from the comforts of 20,000 feet.

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ruger July 23, 2013 at 2:13 pm

This can be halted at the local level. The people really do control this at the local / state level; mostly through property taxes. If the Feds fly them, find out where they take off and land – set up a blind and shoot them down. If this fails, someone flies them and they cannot be protected from the people, forever.

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XYZ July 23, 2013 at 5:15 pm

From my understanding the approval of drones for flight in civilian airspaces is not for the federal government to spy on us. It's for police to spy on us.

Oh, and for various commercial and scientific purposes of course.

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blight_ July 23, 2013 at 7:51 pm

Agreed. Feds are easier to box in, especially with very specific mechanisms to limit their power. With a somewhat conservative SCOTUS on the bench, it's probable that any cases argued before the court anytime soon will be ruled in favor of civil liberties. Then again, I haven't checked the slip opinions on the usual Miranda- or lawful-search related cases…

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 9:58 am

"…someone flies them and they cannot be protected from…[a-holes]…forever."

And you are now open to charges of conspiracy to commit murder.

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 10:08 am

You don't get that a Republican administration along with the craven cowards in congress shredded the 4th and 14th amendments with the grossly misnamed Patriot Act do you. All except for the lone conservative vote cast by Russ Feingold.

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C141B July 25, 2013 at 1:28 pm

I would bet all these idiots are no tax paying republican nutcases.

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Ur Foch July 24, 2013 at 10:09 am

Oops, Feingold is a Democrat.

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blight_ July 24, 2013 at 11:08 am

Why the oops? Do you feel greasy inside praising a Dem?
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_l

Landrieu (D-LA), Not Voting

Feingold (D-WI), Nay

And in the house: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml

—- NAYS 66 —

Baldwin
Barrett
Blumenauer
Bonior
Boucher
Brown (OH)
Capuano
Clayton
Conyers
Coyne
Cummings
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Dingell
Farr
Filner
Frank
Hastings (FL)
Hilliard
Honda
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kucinich
Lee
Lewis (GA)
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Miller, George
Mink
Mollohan
Nadler
Ney
Oberstar
Olver
Otter
Owens
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Peterson (MN)
Rahall
Rivers
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Stark
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson (CA)
Watt (NC)
Woolsey
Wu

—- NOT VOTING 9 —

Abercrombie
Bilirakis
Burton
Clay
Cubin
Hansen
Hill
Kilpatrick
Young (AK)

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blight_ July 24, 2013 at 11:12 am

A democracy would fly to pieces if every corner of a country threw a hissy fit if they couldn't get a guy at the top. We'd be little better than the German microstates pre-Bismark.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm
USS ENTERPRISE July 25, 2013 at 11:43 am

I beg to differ. According to your logic, you would be willing to shoot down aircraft from the Navy. You wanna know why this country is in a decline? Its cause people like you take your Constitutional Rights, and then go absolutely AWOL with them.

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james July 25, 2013 at 12:14 pm

Sorry about that one through the wing, I never actually thought I could hit a plane…my bad :)

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 1:27 pm

Your paper planes were too small and flying too low. Otherwise the VC would have put at least a hole on every one of your paper planes for the fun of it.

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@HarryInventor July 26, 2013 at 8:25 am

They also drag colored men behind pickup trucks on chains, along country roads!

It's that sort of a country, 'ah guess'!

Shooting at people for no good reason as they fly over in 'them thar air-e-o-planes' probably seems tame in comparison to a usa'er…

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 12:45 pm

Wow!! Now that's professional BS, ENTERPRISE. You sound like you actually believe it. HaHaHaHaHa. Entertaining. More please.

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Common Sense July 30, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 1:02 pm

If you like the fun of shooting down drones, then just buy a plane ticket to Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran or some other countries in the region. You wouldn't even need to pay for your own ammunition and equipment. Plenty of American drones flying around for you to practice on. You would be having fun and doing the world a big favor blasting those drones out of the sky.

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Rest Pal July 25, 2013 at 1:35 pm

I'd rather see you stop posting. We've got more than a year's worth of fertilizers from you already.

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USS ENTERPRISE July 25, 2013 at 1:35 pm

Wondering where you were, and who downvoted my comments.

Anyways, whatever.

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blight_ July 28, 2013 at 10:24 pm

Hey, Nidal Hassan killed his share, those two kids did everyone in at Columbine and Holmes did in his share in Aurora, Colorado.

Simultaneously, cops don't have to save your life, but are happy to request more arms for the day they go out to fight bad guys…or serve no-knock warrants looking for drugs so they can seize your property and sell it.

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Chuck July 29, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Even at high angles rifle bullets are lethal for many miles downrange. You've really got be pretty close to straight up to avoid that.

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