Home » News » Army » Oshkosh Delivers JLTV Prototype

Oshkosh Delivers JLTV Prototype

by Matt Cox on August 8, 2013

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Oshkosh Defense delivered its first Joint Light Tactical Vehicle prototype for the next phase of government testing to replace the outdated Humvee.

The Aug. 7 ceremony occurred as the Pentagon prepares to open the engineering and manufacturing development phase of the program. Oshkosh Defense is scheduled to deliver another 21 JLTV prototypes this month.

Oshkosh, Lockheed Martin and AM General were awarded EMD contracts for the JLTV program in August 2012. The three defense companies have until 2014 to build their prototypes for testing. So far, the joint Marine Corps and Army program has avoided cuts brought on by massive defense spending reductions under sequestration.

Oshkosh officials maintain that their JLTV prototype will deliver unprecedented levels of mobility, survivability, transportability and life-cycle value for the JLTV program.

“The JLTV will fill a vital capabilities gap in the military’s light vehicle fleet and protect our men and women in uniform for decades to come,” said John Urias, Oshkosh Corporation executive vice president and president of Oshkosh Defense, in a recent press release. “The Oshkosh JLTV solution we are now submitting for government testing transforms the concept of what a light vehicle can be – merging key design aspects of high-performance tactical vehicles and highly survivable combat vehicles. The result is a new level of protected mobility in a light platform.”

Oshkosh also builds the MRAP All-Terrain Vehicle, a platform that has seen extensive combat in Afghanistan.

Prototypes being delivered include a four-door multi-purpose variant and two-door utility variant. They also feature Oshkosh’s TAK-4i intelligent independent suspension system and a digitally controlled Duramax engine designed to power through steep inclines and deep desert sands, Oshkosh officials maintain.

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{ 109 comments… read them below or add one }

blight_ August 8, 2013 at 11:15 am

Sell 'em to Law Enforcement, they need JLTV's to supplement their Camaros, Bearcats and army surplus V-150/M-113's…

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blight_ August 8, 2013 at 1:15 pm

And like foreign military sales to nations that receive military aid, the payee is the US government.

Dare we call them ClintonBushJrObamavehicles?

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A. Nonymous August 8, 2013 at 3:12 pm

The CBJOV?

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Ikonwit August 10, 2013 at 7:01 am

Careful, ppl here don't understand sarcasm. Still true and funny.. Must up arm the police to police the ppl.. Is no one worried about that?

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blight_ August 11, 2013 at 12:34 am

Having fun reading Radley Balko's spiel about "Warrior Cops". He accurately notes that:

-Under conservatives, they sic the warrior cops on "druggies"
-Under liberals, they sic the warrior cops on "gun-runners" and "people with guns"

Everyone is happy, until the Praetorian guard becomes the kingmakers.

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heskibluski August 13, 2013 at 1:40 pm

Congress will not authorize the funds to purchase these vehicles should it restrict their personal Pork Projects. Now they are wanting to fund stationing troops and equipment to the Philippines when we were forced out of this country. Why waste the money on foreign governments when our own military is being financially suffocated for funding?

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Lance August 8, 2013 at 12:54 pm

Chris did a mistake JLTV are supposed to only replace HUMVEEs in overseas units HUMVEEs are to remain for base and state side use for long time to come.

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Harry Voss August 10, 2013 at 12:41 am

HUMVEEs Corp plus AMC was sold to China Last year. All parts will be supplied by the Chinese.

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FormerDirtDart August 10, 2013 at 12:50 am

AMGeneral, which make HMMWVs was not sold to China, and AMGeneral will be making parts for the HUMMER brand, in the US, as they always have, which is what was bought by a Chinese company from General Motors.
AMGeneral has never been part of the General Motors Corporation (GMC)

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Ben August 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm

And how much will one of these cost to buy and maintain compared to a humvee?

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Sword707 August 8, 2013 at 3:23 pm

If it proves to offer a high chance of survival for those on the frontlines when they run overa IED should the price really matter?

When we're talking about improving the chances of someone coming back home, I say 'f' the price. I'm pretty sure a mother/father, wife, son/daugther would care less as long as their love one comes back home safe and sound.

That's how I see it.

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Ben August 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm

That's very honorable, but unfortunately honor doesn't pay the bills.

Price matters because we have a finite budget (despite what some leaders would like to believe) and a force to maintain with said budget. If we end up buying the JLTV for double the price then we'll only be able to afford half as many without increasing the already massive defense budget.

Better to find more creative, less costly solutions. Or, you know, don't start and endless war and unnecessarily put our troops' lives on the line more than they absolutely have to be.

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Lance Manion August 9, 2013 at 10:21 am

The budget may be finite. But with all the waste fraud and abuse there already is that they will NEVER stop anyway, I for one would refuse to settle for less than whatever is the best possible vehicle or equipment when it comes to protecting our military personnel as they do their jobs. That includes their pay scales too.

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Lance Manion August 9, 2013 at 10:22 am

Maybe find some money by cutting corporate welfare or making Wall Street play nice. National Defense should never have to compromise when we give so much away already to so many undeserving recipients.

SJE August 12, 2013 at 5:33 pm

Cost is also a matter of saving lives. An overarmoured vehicle needs more fuel, strains suspension, is harder to repair in the field. Its not much good if its run out of gas or breaks down. Its also not good if people are dying trying to get gas to fuel them, like all the people killed trying to get gas to Afghanistan.

Lance August 8, 2013 at 5:19 pm

Bull dont send utility vehicles to do a APCs job.

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Ben August 8, 2013 at 6:27 pm

But can we afford to replace every humvee with an APC?

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Papi1960R August 8, 2013 at 10:25 pm

Yes we still have 8000 serviceable M-113A3s in storage. Those were paid off years, if not decades ago. the upgrade kits to A5 standard will cost less than the lowest estimated cost of any of these three contenders. Loved joint patrols in Iraq, Marines wishing they were not in Hummers but in the Army MPs M1117 Guardians. Army MPs wishing they weren't in Cougar MRAPs but in the USAF Security Forces M-113A5s.

Tad August 10, 2013 at 2:32 am

Good point. And how much did the Humvee cost to buy and maintain compared with the Willys Jeep?

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A-aron January 17, 2014 at 4:32 pm

Not near as much as the amount of lives that have been damaged and taken from being in a humvee. When you drop the standard you risk lives.

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@HarryInventor August 8, 2013 at 3:47 pm

WOW! A new jeep! Nice!
That'll sure help defeat the goat herders carrying AK-47s and RPG-7s in the places where the brown people live.

But it doesn't look nearly expensive enough… try adding some lasers, a jacuzzi and a 12' neon sign that flashes 'usa#1' every 5 seconds.

I'm sure the Saudis. Chinese and Japan will lend you some MORE money, usa, to buy a few tens of thousands of those… plus a few hundred of the $28m stealth version that weighs 16 tons and has an en suite bathroom!

More new toys, usa?

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hibeam August 8, 2013 at 8:59 pm

The bearded lunatics applaud these things. It's the drones that chase the bearded lunatics into paradise where they belong.

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Daniel F August 9, 2013 at 3:49 pm

You must not pay attention to the news cause Japan isn't going to be lending money to anyone. They are worse off then the USA

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@HarryInventor August 12, 2013 at 9:16 pm

*than

And since Japan holds a huge part of your issued Treasury paper held OUTSIDE the usa, you might want to rethink your statement. Japan CONTINUES to buy u.s.treasuries although China is reducing their purchases and, in exchange, buying long-term assets the usa cannot afford across the globe.

Some people happen to play the markets. And some pretend to know what they're talking about, right Danny?

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Amna Rizvi August 10, 2013 at 1:26 am

excellent. i am sure someone will actually read ur comment and if nothing else, just increase the price!! and justify it by saying our soliders life's are more important then money!

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blight_ August 13, 2013 at 2:17 pm

Do civilians serve the soldier; or the soldier the civilian?

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Macman1138 August 10, 2013 at 6:52 am

It's not a Jeep.

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John Margrave August 10, 2013 at 9:03 pm

A cursory look at your previous comments reveal a hate for the USA that borders on lunacy. Typical of you brits. Your colonization of the Arab lands and the African people left the mess we are in right now, and you slam the USA for trying to solve problems on both places, while people like you sit and bash everything we do. Read about what happened to an entire british army and followers during the first Afghan war. Now the chickens have come to roost and London is becoming Londonistan. Remember who gave you weapons, money, Spam, cigarettes, et cetera under the Lend-Lease program so that you could survive, otherwise you would be speaking German now. Humanity is know for three major traits: Ignorance, Stupidity, and INGRATITUDE. You fit all three.

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@HarryInventor August 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm

FYI and after you read the findings of the congressional Kilgore Committee post-WWII, I think your ignorance will be sated by the fact that, since the usa bankrolled the Nazi party pre-WWII, "IF IT WASN'T FOR THE usa, WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN DANGER OF SPEAKING GERMAN!". I'm sure you can disprove this statement after reading the historically documented facts, etc, right boy?

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@HarryInventor August 12, 2013 at 9:21 pm

The usa did nothing for the UK during WWII worthy of note except burden the UK with a massive debt to the usa we only repaid in 2003. I spit on you! You're certainly no friend of the UK and never were. Drop the pretense and read the history, boy.

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blight_ August 13, 2013 at 2:25 pm

Lend-Lease aid was free; but the UK still had materiel in transit that it then paid for. Military goods purchased below cost at ~1B post-war. The UK correctly anticipated the need for tons of military hardware to try to keep the empire together (and perhaps someone anticipated a fight with the Soviets, with or without American support).

Loan of 3.8B from US+1B from Canada; both at 2% (below inflation?). The UK ended up paying 7.5B to the US, 2B to Canada. Bear in mind that the 3.8B from the US is valued at 55B today after inflation. Of note, sterling convertibility was imposed and caused a subsequent devaluation.

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blight_ August 13, 2013 at 2:27 pm

"Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the loan originally was £1,075 million, of which £244 million is outstanding. The basis of the loan is that interest is paid at 2 per cent. Therefore, we are currently receiving a greater return on our dollar assets than we are paying in interest to pay off the loan. It is a very advantageous loan for us."

As a self-professed investor, what would you do 5 billion dollars in 1945, 2% interest in 1945?

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@HarryInventor August 12, 2013 at 9:36 pm

Because anyone who dares to criticize the usa must be crazy!
After all, it can do no wrong!

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tnr3 August 8, 2013 at 5:03 pm

I'm sure everything is great. Thanks to the hard working Americans who built it. But is there any way to drop the word "joint" from the name? The Joint Strike Fighter has already soiled that name, the same way Lewinski did with "intern".

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CJH,Fl August 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm

and obama did to POTUS

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hibeam August 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm

Oshkosh Defense delivered its first Joint Light Tactical Vehicle. The Amputee Wagon as it's known in the field. Props in the Air. Just say NO to Boots on the Ground.

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jamesb August 8, 2013 at 8:59 pm

Just in time for the pullout from Afghanistan?

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Iknowit August 10, 2013 at 6:59 am

Hah! Just what I was thinking.. So in the next conflict this new truck won't be right and we can start a new one!

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hibeam August 8, 2013 at 9:03 pm

This is what a drone looks like when it is sitting on the ground full of Americans ready to be made into victims by a bearded lunatic on a bicycle.

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hibeam August 8, 2013 at 9:18 pm

Oshkosh Delivers JLAW Prototype. Joint Light Amputee Wagon. "With Drones our guys administer a one sided beating all day long, with these things full of victims the bad guys get to play catch up"

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oblatt1 August 9, 2013 at 10:57 am

50,000 worth of truck and 450,000 worth of waste.

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usmc#1 August 9, 2013 at 1:03 pm

wow maybe yall should do some research cause these have been out for some time and a very reliable against ieds !

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Iknowit August 10, 2013 at 7:02 am

Really? They just delivered a prototype?

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Douglas M. Waggoner August 9, 2013 at 1:25 pm

I'd like to get an up close and personal look. I'd like to see if the grill is an intentional aiming point for the enemy. And, just how it works for our side.

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Garry Owen August 9, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Wonderful… more expensive toys for the overseas ground troops. 10 years and 6,000 wasted lives later, Iraq is still a politically unstable shit hole with Afghanistan soon to follow in its footsteps. We didn't learn from Korea, we sure as hell didn't learn a damn thing from Vietnam, and no doubt there are still those who think we should keep pokin' our noses in everybody's business as the world's once and forever "guardians of freedom". So keep making more overpriced pieces of shit to ferry the next generation to another pointless overseas liberation crusade. Meanwhile… our border remains as porous as ever and our country continues to go down the toilet economically.

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John Doe August 9, 2013 at 2:16 pm

Amen!

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 2:21 pm

Exactly!

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me me August 9, 2013 at 3:23 pm

True, the one mistake Bush made. After they attacked us, we should have nuked or completely flattened them back to the stone age.
Think about it, Japan attacked a military target, and there is some honor in than in war, and we nuked them twice and got the to surrender unconditionally.
These worthless sand monkeys attack civilian targets, women, children using airplanes full of people like cruise missiles, with far worse casualties than Pearl Harbor, and we don't nuke them???
Now look what's it's cost us. Our constitution, all of out freedom, and a country that is going bankrupt. Best of all, nobody fears attacking us anymore. Attack the US and they will come to your country and give you all their money.
We should have just wiped them out and been done with it.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 4:51 pm

Mmm. Yeah. Slinging nukes around against a disguised, non-uniformed organization that lives within huge innocent populations. That couldn't have any unforeseen consequences.

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Garry Owen August 9, 2013 at 6:28 pm

You tell em, Tojo. We Americans should probably all apologize for Nagasaki, Hiroshima, and the firebombings as well, right? After all, most of those who died were just "Innocent" civilian victims as well. Flag waving, emperor worshipping, American hating civilians, but "innocent" nevertheless.

Fast forward to 2013: Find me any "innocent" Muslim cultures on the face of this planet who want to peacefully co-exist with their fellow infidels and I'll show you a great way to get an acid-bath makeover. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/zanzibar-aci

A little gamma radiation therapy might be a bit of an overreach but the alternative is an endless succession of wasted tactical crusades.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm

There are vital differences that you're not willing to recognize, but I'll state them anyway.

1) Muslims on the whole are actually very peaceful. If they were all as bad as the media portrays them we'd all be dead long ago. What you see are the extremists, the crazies, because that's what sells. Every religion, even Christianity has them. You cannot condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few.

2) Japan, as a nation, waged a conventional war against the US. They were uniformed and acted on behalf of their entire country. We were within our bounds to attack them, even civilian centers, with nuclear weapons because of that fact.

3) A third, and preferable, option would be to pull out all of our troops and hit insurgents with precision strikes and special operators. Infinitely less costly (both lives and money) and likely much more effective. It may even instigate more extremists from joining the cause! (whowouldathought)

Hiemie August 9, 2013 at 3:43 pm

Well written! What happened to all of the Americans that still stand for our flag and what it represents. We are becoming a minority.

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DisabledCombatVet August 9, 2013 at 4:10 pm

Wow, such vehemence from obviously out-of-harms-way free-speechers! Let us consider that lives are worth WAY MORE THAN metal, shall we? If we need boots on the ground then they need protection. If we could just send over toys to do the work of men and women, then do so, but don't criticize the US for doing what is right for everyone to have the ability to pursue happiness, freedom, and safety. YOU go invent a better robot to be controlled by our military and we won't need these "toys".

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hibeam August 9, 2013 at 4:37 pm

Turn on your TV. Watch Fox news. We are turning bearded lunatics into whiskery red splotches with our drones. Meanwhile these silly jeeps sit all lined up somewhere doing nothing useful. The commander in golf is too timid, but that is old news.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 4:56 pm

And how is keeping a full conventional army stationed in Afghanistan a good decision? There are estimated to be less than 100 Al-Qaeda operatives left in the entire country. We're just big, expensive, obvious targets.

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Iknowit August 10, 2013 at 7:06 am

So no doubt spend whatever on all other govt programs too, huh? Or just the ones you like only?

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Ben August 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Nope. Small government, non-imperialistic military. Libertarian.

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Bob O. August 10, 2013 at 8:25 am

you nailed it, the only cry babies are the armchair Senators. Not the 11 bravos.
We should spend some tax dollars on re-vamping the VA too. Over 50,000 deaths by suicide post V. N.

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Ted Taylor August 9, 2013 at 4:21 pm

Cry as much as we want for the troops. All one has to do is add more explosives and their new vehicle is trash. Look at the video of the M1-A1 going up 30 feet. Have a draft of all kids when we want to kill someone and then we might think twice before putting boots on the ground or jets in the air.
Democracy is not meant for everyone. Every time we try to promote democracy, lots of people die and we leave them worse off than before.

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Notmyname August 9, 2013 at 4:41 pm

$500,000 for a 20,000 lb "lightweight" vehicle
For comparison, a 1944 Willy's Jeep weighed 2200 lbs and cost $650 ($8600 in 2013 $)

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Iknowit August 10, 2013 at 7:07 am

F ing rip off, but some dumb asses here think its a good deal

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Riceball August 12, 2013 at 1:34 pm

A lightweight vehicle that is expected to do more than Jeep Willy ever did. A Jeep isn't bullet prooff, much less IED proof and can't handle the radios and other electronics that the JLTV has to. If we were building another Jeep or even another Humvee then you'd have a point but we aren't so the comparison is really not very accurate.

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Don Staples August 16, 2013 at 10:54 pm

and 3-4k a week were dying in those jeeps during ww2…

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Praetor August 9, 2013 at 5:17 pm

And what about that 3000 MRAPs?

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JCross August 9, 2013 at 7:01 pm

All of them except for the M-ATV, which is basically the full-armor version of the Oshkosh JLTV have no actual future in the force. 27.740 were built in total, 12,726 were still in use a year ago, and once we are out of Afghanistan, all but the M-ATVs will be surplus. Yes, that means over 25,000 vehicles were built with an average service life of about 3-4 years.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 7:19 pm

That's criminal.

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JCross August 10, 2013 at 5:07 am

It may be, but the M-ATV is the only MRAP with confirmed use beyond Afghanistan. It's a simple fact, albeit not one the military likes to bring up a lot.

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FormerDirtDart August 10, 2013 at 7:59 am

Nonsense. The last stated Army plans were to retain approximately 18,000 MRAPs, including M-ATVs

hibeam August 9, 2013 at 5:50 pm

You left off the wings and missiles. And we don't need men inside the damn thing. Ya trying to get people killed? It's 2013 for chris sake. Try to keep up.

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NavyVet August 9, 2013 at 6:52 pm

When our past Presidents refuse to do their jobs, IE take Bin laden from Saui Police, our military is left to deal with war. Thanks President Clinton! Our Military is the Bravest bunch of people in World. It's sad that every hero lost in war is because politicians refuse to do their jobs.

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blight_ August 11, 2013 at 12:37 am

You'd have zero soldiers lost if the US caved all the time like Chamberlain. Peace in our time…until you can't bend anymore. Under Churchill, more British soldiers got killed than under Chamberlain. Does that make the latter a better PM?

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T Johnson August 10, 2013 at 2:10 am

I work on a base where they are being tested and trained on – they are noisy enough to hear almost a mile away. They are too big to replace the HUMVEE in my opinion and any enemy that they go up against will hear them in plenty of time to either move or set an ambush. It looks like somebody has sold the Army a handful of magic beans again!

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Driver August 12, 2013 at 3:14 am
A Toolguy August 10, 2013 at 10:51 am

They make a nice big target.

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nate August 10, 2013 at 10:53 am

ahh they who have no answers cast the stone ,they who never had the balls to serve other then at olive Garden

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hibeam August 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

So I can climb over IEDs in that thing over in Dirtbagastan or I can blow up bearded lunatics while flying a drone from Las Vegas? Tell me more about the drone option.

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steeldriver August 10, 2013 at 5:49 pm

Humvee s are outdated and a death trap. They where developed as a all terrain vehicle with no armor, when you strap 15 tons of armor onto a all terrain half ton truck chassis there will be problems. The gunners where exposed and the vehicle was not protected from the rear. The engines, transmissions, where going out every couple hundred hours. the front of the Humvee was not meant for pushing anti IED devices down a road or pushing another vehicle. It would just push the radiator into the fan. We had several new versions but none lasted. the floors where barley armored. I have known several people to die in these. Just like the new battle tank to replace the m1a2 its time to get a new tactical vehical that isn't so heavily armored and top heavy it cant leave the road without getting stuck or if it rains it sinks in the road. to all those posting on here who have never been to a war zone, keep you're opinions to yourselves or volunteer to serve and learn the hard way why humvees are a bad idea.

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William_C1 August 10, 2013 at 5:50 pm

Is that their JLTV in the image or their MRAP ATV? Looks rather bulky even compared to the up-armored HMMWVs.

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tmb2 August 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm

Oshkosh's JLTV submission is a modified MATV.

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John August 11, 2013 at 3:38 am
Wilson August 11, 2013 at 10:04 am

How about just keeping the Billions already spent on MRAPS. Mail them back to the states. We already have the infrastructure in place. We can't even support the one's we have. I'm in Afghanistan right now and we DON'T need this vehicle! Hell your pulling out the RG-31s out now. Just keep them. Come on, Use some common sense for a change.

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Doc August 11, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Doc August 11, 2013 at 3:41 pm
Doc August 11, 2013 at 3:41 pm
Slappy August 11, 2013 at 5:12 pm

Same thing as the MATV. 40 .lbs of Ammonium Nitrate and I will crack that thing in half and kill everyone riding in it. Oh wait, they are already doing that now because the MRAP designed for Iraq cannot go way up in the mountains or muddy river valleys in Afghanistan. Solution lighter MATV/JLTV. I say let the fucks that design these death traps ride in them for a year in Afghanistan on route clearing patrols. Put then right out front and lets see if they will even leave the FOB.

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Brian B Mulholland August 12, 2013 at 9:10 pm

The comment on the noise level of the prototypes is interesting. Still, a fight with insurgents on their turf is the likeliest kind of war we're going to see in the near term future, and air power – drones or otherwise – isn't really going to replace boots, and wheels, and tracks, on the ground.

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docingram August 14, 2013 at 1:19 am

very nice vehicle. should do a great job until they add more explosive to the ied. we do need this type of vehicle, hope we get more. the duramax engine is a fantastic eng., i have owned one, depending on the trans. it gets. pushing vehicles is strictly against the policy of all military vehicles. i am sure some ding dong will drive it as fast as possible and get killed in it, then we will have another set of rules. if we can understand what the basic mission is for the vehicle and not load it down w/ laundries, kitchen equip., rat pak, generator and any other thing someone can think of. it appears that it will need lots of fuel and there is not much onboard.

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OD375 August 15, 2013 at 2:23 pm

Entirely too late. DoD and the NCA are responsible for making us ride unarmored Humvee's from Desert Storm to recent. I hope those guys rot in _ _ _ _! We lost some wonderful men and women because of those inept military commanders and politicians.

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Growing Annoyed August 15, 2013 at 6:05 pm

Historically, armies have been riding in unarmored vehicles since the inception of the chariot..
Now, compensating for your utter ignorance, I may have let you get by if had you whined about the occurrence since World War II.
But you didn't.
So, move along now you buffoon.

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Ben August 8, 2013 at 11:12 pm

I was referring to a new APC, but fair enough. The M-113's were good workhorses.

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joe August 9, 2013 at 3:08 am

Except M113s, as tracked vehicles, are massively maintenance and fuel intensive relative to wheeled vehicles, so the question of cost still remains, and they aren't as available on a day to day basis as the same numbers of wheeled vehicles.

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f1b0nacc1 August 9, 2013 at 12:46 pm

Yes, but surely we can differentiate between circumstances were we NEED an APC (in which case use the M-113s) and when a humvee (or its replacement) will do the trick. Right tool for the right job, and all of that…

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

This is the mentality that bankrupts our country.

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soxfaninatl August 10, 2013 at 7:09 am

Which is why I'm an advocate of making the defense industry part of the military. Have engineers become officers just like pilots and other specialized positions and then pay them according to rank. You could still have civilians build them but if they demand too much just make manufacture and MOS and then let the enlisted build them. I have great respect fro the men and women who design and build these things but not when it comes at the expense of the tax payer.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 1:52 pm

The world's largest defense budget didn't stop 9/11.

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SpecOps August 9, 2013 at 2:06 pm

No what bankrupts our country is corrupt politicians and government agencies that have no oversight that spend millions of dollars on extravagent "seminars" in tourist destinations. It doesn't help that the President is taking these expensive ass vacations to Africa, Martha's Vineyard, playing golf with Tiger Woods, those are just the tip of the iceburg on what's bankrupting our country.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 2:20 pm

And what you're proposing does the country more good? Our military is massive, our defense budget eclipses everyone else's, yet we have no real enemies, no threat's that a conventional military can deter. Fighting disgruntled muslims with AK-47s and RPGs isn't a worthy expenditure of lives and money.

Better to cut back the force and budget and ramp up R&D. That way we'll have the money and resources when we actually need it.

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blight_ August 11, 2013 at 12:32 am

You forgot to blame unions and pensions. And "pensions" like Medicare, SS, what the government gives out to its workers, what soldiers get and what American civilians /used/ to get before someone decided Americans were subhumans and didn't deserve 'em.

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me me August 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm

AK-47's are far superior to M-16's. I have both, and I love my AK hands down!
Don't comment like they are throwing rocks, and AK will tear you up, right through your body armor. It's the #1 rifle in the world for a reason.

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Ben August 9, 2013 at 4:59 pm

Details…

What I meant by that was that they don't have any serious military strength. No tanks, no ships, no aircraft, no ICBMs.

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blahblahblah August 10, 2013 at 9:58 pm

while the AK-47 may seem like a good rifle you can't say it's the number 1 rifle in the world. it is the most massively produced rifle in the world because it is way cheaper to assemble. the parts are cheap so poorer countries can buy them. it's not the best rifle for combat by no means. the recoil is to great for close quarters combat. it takes to long to get a good shot group in place (compared to the M4). it also has way less range (max effective 300 meters) compared to the M4 (500 meters). which means i can get outside of your effective range and you still be in mine +200 meters. lastly, the armor i have worn is 7.62×39 tested and will stop a round. so before you start commenting based on the belief that bigger is better you should look at the facts. (there's a reason the US military doesn't use it)

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USS ENTERPRISE August 9, 2013 at 5:16 pm

It showed flaws in intelligence.

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Iknowit August 10, 2013 at 7:04 am

And yet we have a highly armed domestic set of agencies aim at all of you, and all of your comms are monitored.. Sounds bad

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Ben August 10, 2013 at 12:10 pm

The extra expense comes from our incompetent military leadership, not privatization. They run assbackwards competitions and then allow the winner to grab them by the balls and charge damn near whatever they want.

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Ben August 10, 2013 at 12:12 pm

Got a link? I'd love to confirm that.

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FormerDirtDart August 10, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Ben August 10, 2013 at 1:43 pm

Thanks!

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JCross August 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm

I stand corrected. I somehow missed the Army announcements about the MRAP deployments, although it isn't brought up much. Thank you for that post.

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