Home » Air » Four Russian Surface-to-Air Missile Systems that Could Have Shot Down the Malaysian Jet

Four Russian Surface-to-Air Missile Systems that Could Have Shot Down the Malaysian Jet

by Mike Hoffman on July 17, 2014

Первый международный форум "Технологии в машиностроении-2010"Multiple reports have emerged that a Malaysian MH-17 passenger jet carrying 295 people was shot down over Eastern Ukraine Thursday morning. Early reports point to pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine, or Russian forces stationed on the Russia-Ukraine border shooting down the passenger jet. However, Ukraine, Russia and the pro-Russian separatists have all denied shooting down the passenger plane.

Records show the passenger jet was cruising at about 33,000 feet at about 500 miles per hour. In order to shoot down a jet at this altitude, it requires an advanced surface-to-air missile, or an air-to-air missile. Early indications show it was likely a radar guided surface-to-air missiles (SAM).

Below are four Russian SAM systems that could knock down a passenger jet flying at 33,000 feet:

Buk Missile System 2Buk Missile System (NATO designation: SA-11/SA-17)

Reports in Ukraine indicate that pro-Russian separatists have a Buk missile system in eastern Ukraine. NATO refers to the system as the SA-11 GADFLY and the advanced model as the SA-17 GRIZZLY. The systems was developed by the Soviet Union to succeed the SA-6 GAINFUL.

The Buk is a mobile missile system that includes a target acquisition radar vehicle, command vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar vehicles and three transporter erector launcher vehicles. The Buk missile batter includes two TELAR and one TEL vehicles.

A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR) vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles and three transporter erector launcher (TEL) vehicles. A Buk missile battery consists of two TELAR and one TEL vehicle.

The medium range SAM system has received iterative upgrades over the years since it was first introduced in 1979. The range and capability of the system depends on the missile in use.  The SA-11 was introduced in 1979 using the 9M38 missile that features a range of 3–19 miles and an altitude of 100–46,000 feet. In 1984, the SA-11 received the upgraded 9M38M1 missile which expanded the range to 22 miles and the altitude up to 72,000 feet.

The system was upgraded to the NATO designation SA-17 in 1998 when the 9M317 missile was introduced. The missile features an engagement envelope of 100–82,000 feet and 2–31 miles. The GRIZZLY also receive the third version of the target acquisition radar, which can engage 24 simultaneous targets.

S-400S-400 (NATO designation: SA-21 GROWLER)

This is the most advanced surface-to-air missile system in the world. It was introduced in 2004  by Russia.  The long to medium range system features three different missiles — the long range 40N6 and 48N6 missiles as well as the medium range 9M96 missile. Depending on the missile the engagement envelope extends to 98,000 feet and 248 miles.

What sets this system apart is how many targets it can track simultaneously. The S-400’s target acquisition radar can track 36 aerodynamic targets and 72 missiles. For comparison’s sake, the Buk can track 24 targets. Right now, only Russia operates the S-400 although there have been threats it would export it to Iran. There are five S-400 systems deployed across Russia — two in Moscow, one in Russia’s Southern Military District, one in the Pacific Fleet and one near the Baltic Sea.

SA-6 22K12Kub (NATO designation: SA-6 GAINFUL)

This is Russia’s medium range surface-to-air mssile system predecessor to the SA-11 and SA-17. It was an original part of the Buk missile system but it has since been phased out in favor of its successors. However, there are a few 2K12 Kub’s still in existence in Russia, according to reports. It was designed in 1959 by the Soviet Union and was produced from 1964 to 1985.

It’s frankly a simpler version of the SA-11 and SA-17. The mobile SAM system has a range of 2–15 miles and can hit targets traveling up to 36,000 feet.

sa-2S-75A Dvina (NATO designation: SA-2 GUIDELINE)

Russia’s early high altitude surface-to-air missile system was designed to knock down U.S. bombers and spy planes. It was made famous when the system shot down U.S. pilot Gary Powers flying a U-2. The SAM system features a radar and missile system that can hit targets flying up to 114,000 feet and up to 41 miles away depending on the variant of the system.

The Russians have exported the system across Asia and even Africa. Notable countries who use the system include Libya, North Korea and Syria. The SA-2 also knocked down U.S. pilots during the Vietnam War.

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{ 130 comments… read them below or add one }

rtsy July 17, 2014 at 3:19 pm

4 reasons NOT to fly over a war zone.

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Chris July 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm

Exactly the hell right. Why?

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edliew July 17, 2014 at 10:22 pm

Because it's a clear commercial flight route and no "no fly zone" was declare. from the video transcript, the rebel mistaken MH17 as a military cargo plane… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw

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tiger July 18, 2014 at 11:59 am

Not exactly true. They were Far North of the normal route.

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Ed B July 17, 2014 at 3:55 pm

Thats a BIG DUH!!!!!!!!! DT writer. So its either a SA-6 or its upgraded version the SA-11 or a SA-10 and its improved version the SA-20/21. Hate to say SA-2s are not in service in Russia or the CIS nor China any more that be the same as our Army using Nike/Hercules missiles today. It also so obvious you support the NATO maidens in Kiev that you automatically point to Russia for this. They might have done this by mistake, but wait for the news of what happened instead of rumors hours after it happened..

But face it like the shooting down of the Iranian airliner in 87. Who is the idiot who flies passenger planes over a war zone which both side shoot at each other with MiGs and SAMs. face it the real bad guy here is the Ukrainian officials who kept sending civilians to fly over a area where Russian forces have shoot down SU-25 and military planes several times.

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Marc Winger July 17, 2014 at 4:14 pm

Use your head. This has nothing to do with NATO whatsoever & if you think the ethnic Russian guerrillas in Eastern Ukraine have anything that can shoot down a craft at that height, without Russian support, you need to rethink. Ukraine is hardly in a position to coordinate or regulate any flights over their territory. Ukraine may not be the best -tagonist in the region, but they are veering towards the West & away from that pathetic remnant of the Soviet Empire, known as Russia.

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Eric July 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm

I agree with you Marc. Most people dont want to see the truth or use common sense when talking about issues like Ukraine/Russia

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OracleSpectacle July 17, 2014 at 6:51 pm

- I think you need to rethink! -More than 300.000 SA-2 missiles were produced. And in who's hands some of these systems are know is for me unknown. – I have my eyes on the "pro-russian", "Ex-Soviet", "Bandit-state" of "Transnistria", on the border to Ukraine…

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bn girl July 19, 2014 at 11:40 pm

Marc was not thinking. He was propagandaring.

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Fred July 17, 2014 at 7:43 pm

There were news reports of the guerillas having captured a SA-11 from the Ukrainians a few weeks ago (6/28-6/29 or so).

So it is possible that Russia did not plan this, and this is just an idiotic mistake by a bunch of amateurs with unfamiliar big guns. I would say even 'probable', but wouldn't rule out Russia.

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Ziv July 17, 2014 at 8:07 pm

Marc, the separatists were boasting to the western press two weeks ago that they had captured an SA-11 Buk missile launch system. The pictures are out there of them showing it off. And then 30 minutes after the 777 was shot down, Putins man on the scene, Igor Strelkov, announced that the separatists had shot down an aircraft that they believed to be another AN-26, which was 30 minutes before anyone else knew that the 777 was in trouble. Well it turns out that they shot down a 777 instead. Whether the guys controlling the battery were Russian or not is almost a side issue. It is Russia's fault, regardless.
I agree that this isn't NATO's fault, but who in the world routed civilian airliners over what is for all intents and purposes a war zone?
The Russians are ignorant b******, but we, the West, shouldn't have sent commercial aircraft anywhere near those idiots. I am no expert on this, but I did note the detour my jet took around Bosnia in January of 1995.

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ghostwhowalksnz July 17, 2014 at 8:21 pm

The Ukraine military have form for shooting down a civilian jet accidentially, Siberia Air Fl 812. Tu154 from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk.
As the US navy found when it too shot down a civilian jet, mistakes do happen

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german July 17, 2014 at 9:49 pm

Not mistakes when the US did it.

wpnexp July 26, 2014 at 5:44 am

The Iranian jet was squacking an F-14 IFF beacon, which identified it as a threat. Radars are really not capable of identifying the targets by shape. The fact that the US and Iran were shooting at each other really doesn't make it a mistake.

orly? July 17, 2014 at 10:55 pm

1. Malaysian airlines' HQ is not in the west.

2. Airlines do routes that don't make sense because of the capitalist idea of making money. They use less fuel that way.

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oblatt22 July 18, 2014 at 5:02 am

>Ukraine is hardly in a position to coordinate or regulate any flights over their territory.

The Ukraine government is responsible for its airspace. Sounds like you are hardly is a position to comment.

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paddyomalley July 18, 2014 at 10:18 am

The separatists got some of Buk missiles and systems from a Ukraine armory they sacked. The Buks can reach planes at 72,000 feet.

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rangie sanchez July 18, 2014 at 12:54 am
german July 21, 2014 at 5:46 pm

Fabricated "phone conversations".

Where have I seen that before? …. ahhhh, 9/11" phone conversations" aboard a "hijacked airliner"

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Fishbed Charlie July 18, 2014 at 9:38 am

>> "…the real bad guy here is the Ukrainian officials who kept sending civilians to fly over a area where Russian forces have shoot down SU-25 and military planes several times."<<

Ed B, you know nothing. The real responsibility lies with the Maylasian captain who accepted this routing from his dispatcher.

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Blue Jay July 22, 2014 at 6:52 pm

Come on, Deathbed Charlie, let those with live brain cells talk.

R.I.P.

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QUENTIN July 19, 2014 at 8:55 am

Get your facts straight. Ukrainian officials are not in charge of Malaysian Airlines. It was the airline officials who chose to keep flying through that air space. They did so to save money on fuel.

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noneya July 22, 2014 at 7:24 am

theres alot of people dead if its a mistake or not, and russian power is the dog

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Doug July 17, 2014 at 4:00 pm

The Russians did it. Putin will put the blame on someone else and Obama will let it go.

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Stan July 17, 2014 at 4:51 pm

Your evidence for your claim is what, Doug?

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ghostwhowalksnz July 17, 2014 at 8:22 pm

Its not like the US can be tough over something they have done in the past

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Earl Handy July 17, 2014 at 11:04 pm

Obama'as past record!

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german July 17, 2014 at 11:09 pm

The US did it. First there is the motive. Second there is the means. Third there is the funding. Fourth there is the agenda. And finally there is the pattern of false flag ops in similar situations.

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FriskyDingo July 18, 2014 at 10:57 am

German, you have no basis for this comment. Just because you are envious of the US does not give any of your hate bashing any weight. Please present a sound argument before you start barking like the uneducated dog that you are. I hope you don't have any children.

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sal July 18, 2014 at 10:32 pm

Well, the war in Ukraine did originate from Washington. That much is obvious.

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TX patriot July 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm

FriskyDog, please read this and then swear to God you will remain single.

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/break

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Hello July 19, 2014 at 5:34 pm

You got it, yellow stripe we use to call it in Germany in the Cold War! Where is a civil Gorbochacv when you have a Regan?
Americans are worthless after WWII. We've lost small regional wars since, starting in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan.

Can we now learn only occupation can bridge friendship like Germany & Japan.
But it is an investment over many generations. Not this go in and leave like the mid-east. Let Isareal Lead there.

Only Germany & Japan has the history of what a greater nation they have NOW! After Americans extended a had and friendship.

Generations in Mid East will continue to hate God loving people. Not An idol called Alla.

Persons of leadership NOW try to make a civil world. And it will never happen! Read and understand what the Bible has said for consolidation of over 2000 years of documents gathered and literally translated by fathers. History teaches on the battlefield which will alway be.
Put the fires out ASAP like, Iran, let small fires be put out. Let Israel occupy what land mass they can.

Stick with the real allies(England, Now. Some Europeans that have guts.

Only large masses of land like Russia, China. And most of Africa. Cannot be occupied but American Ideals.

But to waste 10 years of $$$ to educate was the wrong method used in the later half of 20 the Century, and so far in the first decade of the 21st. only those will carry on the hatred will be growing in their World system. Let them come forward with a White Flag or Teach them the lessons our fathers left to the next generations, and study the philosophy that Romans 5, 1-8, has to say; it's a start to understand through the future.

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Riceball July 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm

In case you've never read anything about Islam, Allah isn't an idol and is fact the Arabic name for God much like Jehova, or Jaweh were once the names for God. In fact, the God of Islam is the same exact God as the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam shares any number of the same holy figures that Christianity and Judasim do.

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Marc Winger July 17, 2014 at 4:21 pm

The ethnic Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine have nothing but what Russia provides & do nothing, except what Russian covert ops dictates. Obviously.
Anyone that would defend the Russians, is suspect. Literally. They remain; & have done so since the implosion of the Soviet state, an enemy of the US & the West. We won & we continue to win. Whether this shoot down is a Russian mistake or purposeful, is irrelevant. They or their agents downed a commercial airliner, flying high enough to have made further caution of the little conflict below, unnecessary.

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Stan July 17, 2014 at 4:49 pm

Anyone that would automatically blame Russia for this, despite no evidence, is suspect. Literally.

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german July 17, 2014 at 11:20 pm

You are being kind. Marc may be a paid propagandist not unlike those who have accused Syria of using Sarin gas when it's the US backed rebels who did it.

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David July 18, 2014 at 11:28 am

Paid propaganda… Lmao yeah right…. Who the hell is going to pay someone to push propaganda on defensetech.org? The mainstream mass media sure… Defensetech.org, as great a site it is, I doubt it.

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german July 19, 2014 at 12:33 am

naive as a kindergartener.

madeiranlotuseater July 18, 2014 at 1:25 am

As a bigot you are in a class of your own. This is a massive tragedy. The world leaders are not placing blame until the investigation has been carried out. Perhaps you should do the same?

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WWX July 20, 2014 at 11:23 am

Oh wow, so the Russians did it, exactly why? Criminal law says that the very first thing you have to do when you investigate a crime is to look for a motive. What motivate do the Russians have if this is causing them lots of hell? On contrary, who benefits from this? Yeah, the response is Ukr government.

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Serendipity July 21, 2014 at 10:20 am

Well said. But American media outlets are not interested in facts or the truth. That's not their job. Their real responsibilities are spreading official propaganda, promoting blind faith in the government, and manipulating public perception of reality. As many clueless posters of this site have shown, it's not difficult at all.

Here is what real journalism looks like:
http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-1907

Pepe Escobar is one of the truly informed and intelligent international journalists and writers. Not all writers on Asia Times are good. Some writers, e.g. Willy Lam, are as pathetic and brainless as the typical propagandists on CNN or Fox.

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OracleSpectacle July 17, 2014 at 6:39 pm

- I wonder if there are any operative SA-2 systems in "ex-soviet", "break-out-from Moldova", "pro-russian" "Transnistria-republic" that got feets and walked over the border to eastern Ukraine?

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rtsy July 17, 2014 at 7:25 pm

Such systems are all over the area in the hands of all parties involved.

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ghostwhowalksnz July 17, 2014 at 8:28 pm

See my previous comment about the time Ukraine military shot down Russian airliner flying from Tel Aviv over Black Sea in 2001.

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The_Hand July 17, 2014 at 8:46 pm

Yes, but who would pull the trigger? Not the Ukraine military; the separatists have no aircraft and Russia is (probably) not flying air support any more. Unlikely that it'd be the Russians, who would at least have the sense to check the target's transponder code.

That leaves the separatists, who are known to have captured a Buk missile system a week or so ago and have been happily shooting down planes ever since. Problem is they had to have had help–a multi-vehicle SAM battery is not like operating an iPhone.

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german July 17, 2014 at 10:00 pm

Your analysis provides a sound basis for us to suspect this was another false flag op plotted by the CIA / MI6.

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ghostwhowalksnz July 18, 2014 at 6:22 am

The militias got their BUK by just taking it from Ukraine base, most likely the operators came with the system.
After all in Crimea many officers swapped sides when Russia took over

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voodkokk July 17, 2014 at 8:50 pm

The question is WHY? They are nothing but a bunch of yellow striped cowards that would blow up innocent people. They need to find out who pulled the trigger and hook their azz to a SAM and launch.

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ghostwhowalksnz July 17, 2014 at 9:58 pm

The Captain of USS Vincennes was promoted not long after he shot down Iranian airliner. The US was responsible but the guy to to blame didnt pay any penalty.

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Ted July 20, 2014 at 2:35 pm

That guy made admiral. The Captain of the Cole lost his commission. Shoot first ask questions later.

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tiff July 20, 2014 at 3:16 pm

That's probably why there have been so many war criminals in the US government and military.

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Alex July 18, 2014 at 8:25 pm

They were trying to shoot another Ukrainian An-26, like they did 4 days ago. They chose wrong the target. Right after hit they posted messages on social media about shooting down another An-26. Numerous pro-separatist Russian sites reposted it. They soon realized they shot wrong plane. Now they deny they did it, and deny they have capabilities regardless previous downed An-26

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ghostwhowalksnz July 22, 2014 at 9:51 pm

I wouldnt use twitter as a reliable source. This part of Ukraine isnt Brooklyn

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Rob July 17, 2014 at 9:05 pm

Find it odd that there is such a lack of surveillance in the small area of this conflict that could prove who did it. Shows a huge weakness of all 4 sides involved ( NaTO, Ukraine, Separatists, Russia) Not impressed.

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orly? July 17, 2014 at 10:57 pm

US/NATO have satellite footage.

Guess what happens next?

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german July 17, 2014 at 11:15 pm

here's my guess: unexplained disappearance of all the tapes and records.

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Riceball July 21, 2014 at 3:01 pm

But the thing is that a satellite can only cover so much at a time and it's entirely possible that it had either already passed or hadn't reached the area where the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down. It's not like anybody, except the tinfoil hat types, knew that it was going to be shot down so we could make sure that we had a satellite in place to capture evidence. Of course there is such a thing as maintaining geo-synchronous orbit but I'm not sure that we'd have a satellite parked there 24/7 since it would mean that it couldn't be used to look elsewhere.

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german July 17, 2014 at 9:56 pm

Looks like another false flag op directed by the US / NATO and executed by the puppet government in Ukraine.

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paperpushermj July 17, 2014 at 11:37 pm

Silly Rabbit

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Thomas July 20, 2014 at 7:08 pm

Russians really will say anything to deflect the fact that this was Putin’s fault. I think that if Russia would just own up to its mistake, this wouldn’t turn into a huge deal despite the loss of life. However, their constant lies and finger pointing will make things much worse.

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David July 18, 2014 at 11:33 am

You're paid to push propaganda blah blah blah….

False flag for what? The conflict is already underway. The US and Russia have already taken sides. This wouldn't be the first time it's confirmed that Russia deliberately shot down a civilian airliner.

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german July 19, 2014 at 12:32 am

You are obviously unfamiliar with all the applications of false flag ops, and you don't know the suicidal geopolitical brinksmanship being pushed by the lunatics in Washington (particularly the CFR) and Brussels .

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Ales Ogrinc July 19, 2014 at 4:35 am

they might be lunatics but russian lunatics are the only ones that can be better in that case actually.

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german July 17, 2014 at 10:06 pm

The Malaysian War Crime Tribunal convicted GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc for war crimes in Iraq not so long ago.

Plots to retaliate against the Malaysian government has been in the works in Washington (and perhaps London) for some time. The disappearance of MA 370 signaled the start. Now it's another act of revenge in all possibility. It fits the pattern and M.O. of US / UK.

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German is an Idiot July 17, 2014 at 10:16 pm

Why don't you go smoke some more dope, german, and continue to blame the U.S. for everything that goes wrong in the world. Ridiculous.

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german July 17, 2014 at 11:02 pm

I don't smoke. But if you would share some of your potent variety with me, I'd consider. Would you? I don't think so.

Re-read my post when you are more lucid. You'll see that I never blamed the US for "everything that goes wrong in the world". But we do know:

- the US has falsely accused the Syrian government of using chemical weapons when it's the US supported rebels who actually used them;

- the US has falsely accused the Libyan government under Gaddhafi of killing civilians when it's the US supported rebels who committed the war crime;

- the US has falsely accused Iraq under S Hussein of hiding or developing WMDs and used the excuse to illegally invade the country;

- the US has falsely accused the Taliban / Al Qaeda / Osama bin Laden of committing the 9/11 attack when the totality of evidence leaves absolutely no doubt that it could only have been committed by privileged, high-ranking few within the US government and well-trained operatives from the US military, the Mossad, and MI6;

- the US has falsely accused N. Vietnam of attacking US Navy and used the excuse to start a decade long war that killed millions of civilians and hundreds of thousands of soldiers on both sides;

I can go on and on, but that will undoubtedly disrupt your doping schedule.

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Gonzo July 17, 2014 at 11:37 pm

Wmds were in Iraq….

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german July 19, 2014 at 12:18 am

BS.

Rob July 18, 2014 at 2:53 am

Syria – regardless of who used the chemical weapons does not change the fact that the Syrian government caused their own split by attacking protesters & resisting any compromise to resolve the issue still on going.

Gaddhafi was killed by his own citizens & disgraced and would not have happened if he was a great leader of his people

Sadaam was resisitent to every request for inspectors by International monitors & was best to save his own people and government by negotiating . Even under threat of war, he did nothing to save his own people. Kurds requested our help & even thou with mistakes, we did so.

regardless of who did 9/11, Al Qaeda & these extremist groups happily applauded the action and chose themselves as enemy to USA.

Vietnam had groups that requested our presence & assistance. Many now happily live in America, by choice, rather then being in a communist system. It says a lot considering our societies were/are different.

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Robert July 18, 2014 at 6:16 pm

Good Grief, German. What ARE you dreaming?

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Canuck July 20, 2014 at 9:38 am

Hahaha! Wow the conspiracy theories abound. There is nothing to substantiate any of the claims you make above. Absolute idiocy.

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Nick July 17, 2014 at 10:49 pm

This is idiotic to the nth degree. Life must suck living it as a paranoid protagonist in a B-grade pseudo-intellectual military/political movie.

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guest July 19, 2014 at 8:55 am

about as relevant as claiming that -due to the pax list composition- this was Serbian retaliation against Haag tribunal charges against Milosevic.

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Canuck July 20, 2014 at 9:35 am

Your conspiracy theory is hilarious. Why would anyone waste their time and who cares what a kangaroo court set up in such a respectable place as Malaysia has to say. The "court" is neither unbiased nor anything other than a biased Islamic public relations ploy. These stunts work backwards. Islamic people are innocent and everything flows from that. Iraq invades neighboring Islamic countries, Palestinians are devoted to the destruction of Israelis. But they are innocent.

Are you truly German or a transplant soaking up all the foolish Euro area benefits that your home country cannot, will not provide its citizens. Except ingratiating the powerful and wealthy. The problem starts at home.

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sal July 20, 2014 at 12:23 pm

I think you are confusing the Malaysian War Crime Tribunal with the Hague. The latter is no doubt a kangaroo court. The Malaysian one looks legit, at least in the Iraq case. Even law students should find little difficulty in drawing the same conclusion simply by following the rules. GW Bush and his cabinet members were war criminals by established rules and precedents.

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thomas July 20, 2014 at 7:09 pm

Do you think we worry about a small nations court system? Come on you can’t have it both ways.

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german July 21, 2014 at 4:57 pm

Who is "we"? The war criminals in the US government? the brainwashed sheeples? members of the Establishment?

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edliew July 17, 2014 at 10:26 pm

Transcript from rebel conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw

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orly? July 17, 2014 at 10:58 pm

Why does no one start taking Anti Air seriously until AFTER a tragedy like this occurs?

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orly? July 18, 2014 at 12:21 am

This does NOT surprise me.

How long until this link goes down?
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-

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Canuck July 20, 2014 at 10:08 am

Says plenty doesn't it. The article. Note the Voice of Russia site has been taken over by a government controlled media giant. RIA Novosti. Can't believe the story is still posting.

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youngyer July 18, 2014 at 4:41 am

The most potential is that Government of Ukraine Want to Hit the Pro – Russia. So, They shoot the MH17 and the ask the Pro-Russia to responsible only. It is the way that they will have a right to hunt Pro-Russia as terrorist.

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oblatt22 July 18, 2014 at 4:43 am

To most of the Muslim world America just shot down a second Malaysia airliner.

But who can deny Washington isn't rubbing its hands with glee.

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Rob July 18, 2014 at 8:36 am

To the Muslim world If they see a dead bug on the ground they try blame us. Then they post pictures of the bug all over social media when it was their kids playing in the neighborhood that accidently stepped on it. They rather blame us then accept blame themselves for any mistake done by their family. Truth.

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oblatt22 July 18, 2014 at 10:17 am

Certainly the Arabs cant compete with Americans when it comes to victim fantasies.

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Rob July 18, 2014 at 10:35 am

They seem to surely try. On social media, most of us are just posting funny videos and chatting about life & loves. Arabs seems to mostly post & cheat about death & hate

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Rob July 18, 2014 at 10:36 am

chat not cheat, ooops *

oblatt22 July 19, 2014 at 7:24 am

You mean you are talking about you and they they are talking about you too ?

I guess you don't speak Arabic.

Misanthrophe2 July 18, 2014 at 8:01 am

Tragic event, especially considering that it was a Malaysian aircraft. Russia will be roundly condemned by the 'civilized' nations of the world, but the US and her NATO toadies must share some of the blame. Remember it was GWB and his neo-con Trotskyite masters who pushed for Ukrainian membership in NATO, followed by the positioning of the missile 'defense' shield in Ukraine. This was a deliberate provocation by the US and her puppet allies in NATO – a provocation which Putin put to rest by taking Crimea and supporting insurgency in Eastern Ukraine. The US was hell-bent on humiliating Russia and threatening her sovereignty and security. Putin surprised the sleeping, arrogant America by taking Crimea and securing Russia's access to the Black Sea. The shooting down of the Malaysian aircraft is a sad by-product of American interference in Ukraine.

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David July 18, 2014 at 11:40 am

Ok let me get this straight… It the US's fault for offering Ukraine, a sovereign nation capable of making it's own choices, membership into a defensive alliance. Because of that you say Russia is justified in invading and taking part of that nation because of that offer? Which more than makes valid the purpose of the offer a defensive alliance in the first place.

Sure. Listen closely…. Crack kills. Stop smoking it.

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Ohbigboy July 18, 2014 at 3:53 pm

I think you are confusing Ukraine with Poland.

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Robert July 18, 2014 at 6:13 pm

Think you're right, Oh, but connecting the dots is always challenging for some folks. Poland it was/is.

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Quentin July 19, 2014 at 9:00 am

You, sir, may claim to be an American, but you're not. You disgust me.

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TonyC. July 18, 2014 at 10:26 am

The airliner was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Malaysian Air Line should have made the pilots take a different route. Like it was stated in this forum, don't fly civilian aircraft over a war zone. The problem with this incident is all sides of the conflict are using Russian built equipment, so who did it may never be known?

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Bill Babbitt July 18, 2014 at 1:31 pm

How do you say "Aw Sh–" in Russian?

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reader July 19, 2014 at 2:52 pm

shopa, bljat, or jop tvoje madt

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Hmmm July 18, 2014 at 1:53 pm

Maybe the Russians did it to isolate Ukraine into a no fly zone, make it look unstable and have an excuse to go in and take over? It's all not far from the Russian border.

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blight_ July 18, 2014 at 3:10 pm

The NFZ is only a small chunk of ~10-15% of Ukraine on the eastern side. It does not cover the whole country. You can check it yourself on flightradar.

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Rob July 18, 2014 at 5:07 pm

Plane appeared to fly right over the area according to reports towards Russia. Separatists have no warplanes so would be no need for Ukraine to fire upon it. All evidences point to the separatists & Russia denies the possibility. Just another example that Russia wants to be our enemy.

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WWX July 20, 2014 at 11:28 am

Bullshit. The previous days before the crash all Ukr media was crying because Russian jets bombed our troops, Russian jets downed our planes, Russian jets blah blah blah. Also, there were tons of reports of a separatist SU-25 roaming around

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Truth July 19, 2014 at 1:12 am

Those Russians are completely CooKoo with their driving. See youtube movie's
Give them weapons and they are potential human rights criminals. The inslavement of their own people is a perfect example. How many people are put to silence by Russian goverment. Putin is just a new Stalin.

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Tom J July 19, 2014 at 2:50 am

Twitter feed of Spanish air-traffic controller in Kiev Malaysia Airlines B777 aircraft disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed (English) # URGENTE: the Boeing 777 with 280 passengers disappeared from radars while it was at 10,000 m (English) B 777 aircraft flew escorted by 2 fighters from ukraine until minutes before disappearing from radar, (English) Yes the kiev authorities, want to tell the truth, this collected 2 fighters flew nearby minutes earlier, not a hunt down it (English) At the 7:00 minutes reported the demolition, later our tower was taken with foreign staff q continue here (English) Military confirmed that it was ukraine, but it still does not know where the order came from (English)

Photos of wreckage show the missile, not sure if it's air-to-air or not.. I'll upload the shot http://i60.tinypic.com/288bgk2.jpg

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Canuck July 20, 2014 at 9:45 am

That picture of a missile is taken from a Russian broadcast. It is not only too small to be a high altitude ground based missile, but appears to be about the right size for an aircraft launched missile. Can anyone actually believe that an unexploded warhead seen in the photo is what brought down a 777? It is a prop falsely placed there.

It is amazing what people can believe as truth. Why disinformation can become so ludicrous as to be taken as truth. The Russian media machine obviously assumes their citizens are basically morons. What the failed state has created. sad

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Ales Ogrinc July 19, 2014 at 4:41 am

https://twitter.com/VoiceOfDonetsk some videos and pictures of the BUK beeing used by pro russians there, pictures that showing where the BUK was placed, video of BUK beeing moved to russian side with a missing missile and alot more.
What more evidence do some people actually need to see the truth???
Some people belive russia so much that if they would see Putin stealing infront of they eyes they would still deny its true…

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HAMDAOUI July 19, 2014 at 11:21 am

President Putin was returning to Russia from the post World Cup summit of BRICS Nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) in Brazil when the Kiev junta despot Petro Poroshenko took the opportunity to assassinate him by bringing down his aircraft and shot down the Malaysia Airlines plane instead. Doubt very much Obama has a hand in it.

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Ales Ogrinc July 19, 2014 at 11:25 am

Your joking right? That is nothing else than a rumor. If that would be the truth overall the madman Putin would make big step against Ukraine allready. Your really naive man and all is pointing directly to pro russian rebels with tons of evidence allready. Even them self admited they shot down a plane that they thought its Ukrainen cargo plane but once the news about passanger plane came they toke every word about that down.

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sal July 19, 2014 at 10:06 pm

The president will never be asked to give explicit approval in this kind of ops.

The war machine is bigger than the WH and Congress combined.

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oblatt22 July 19, 2014 at 3:36 pm

Ukrainian denials sound familiar…

Friday, 5 October, 2001, 06:27 GMT 07:27 UK
Ukrainian denial

The Ukrainian defence ministry denied that its forces had caused the disaster, saying adequate safety precautions had been taken.

They said that all missiles had been accounted for, and that the exercises had only begun an hour-and-a-half after the plane crashed.

Ukrainian officials said that the plane had been out of range of the missiles when it crashed. "The weapons that were being used during this exercise could not reach the area where our Tu-154 was flying,"

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sal July 19, 2014 at 7:38 pm

Ukrainian radar was tracking the Malaysian jet and reportedly here were two Ukrainian fighter jets in the vicinity shortly before the crash. MH17 looked very much like the plane Putin was on.

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german July 21, 2014 at 1:06 am

I believe MH17 was shot down by the Ukrainians using AAMs.

The American mainstream media is simply performing its fiduciary duty to assist in the usual same old cover up and disinformation operation. the people running Ukraine right now are illegitimate, but they are puppets chosen by the Establishment. Therefore the Western media, being owned by the same, must fabricate the best stories to defend the puppets and in the process attack the Russians.

80% of the people in the states are sheeples (my estimate, just look at the posters here). They will echo whatever lies being pushed by the media.

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meagainstyou July 19, 2014 at 8:01 pm

First I love the article: Russia shot down the airplane and that was I guess the point of the author. Ukraine operates all of the systems listed above and has significant experience shooting down civilian airliners. The probability of ukranians shooting down the airliner is much higher then vice versa since they have significantly more SAMs and trained troops. Second the airliner was shot towards west of ground impact point so…..the probability of that being a rebel buk system is even lower. The moral of the above story is that when some countries can kill thousands of civilians and it is collateral damage, once per year story on CNN….when something like this happens in unfriendly countries it is on 24 hrs a day…until you go nuts.

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bn girl July 19, 2014 at 11:35 pm

Here's a good rule : if CNN or Fox are pumping a story of geopolitical significance and insinuating wrongdoing against a country that is not a US puppet, presume the opposite is true. You will be right well over 80% of the time. In this case, like the stories about Syria, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Cuba, Venezuela, etc, the opposite of what the MSM is pushing is true, i.e., it was done by either the US or Ukraine with some US involvement.

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ONTIME July 20, 2014 at 8:31 pm

You don't have to be a forensic crash expert to find out who owned the missiles, the debris we cannot get near had the rocket engines from those russian missiles and satellite co-ordinates can confirm launch point, radio intercept proves who was responsible and that a russkie tech had to be there with the launcher……BOB and Lurch are just paralyzed because they will not commit to sending troops and equipment into the balkan and polish areas to put RazzzPutin on the defensive. BOB is going to be red skinned again by RazzPutin because Razz is going to give him the bird and say "so sue me"…….

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Blue Jay July 21, 2014 at 10:27 am

The truth is rising to the top now.

Ukrainian Su25 detected to to gaining height on MH17 shortly before the crash.
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-u

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Blue Jay July 21, 2014 at 10:29 am

correction: Ukrainian Su25 detected to be gaining height on MH17 shortly before the crash.

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german July 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm

People who follow international affairs hardly needed to guess – it was the US or Ukraine (or both) the moment the story breaks out.

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Barring July 21, 2014 at 6:03 pm

The Malaysian Airliner MH17 was ordered by Ukraine air control to lower its altitude and change direction to fly over a war zone. The airliner was also being flanked by Ukrainian fighter jets. The US knew the Ukrainians did it, but chose to withhold evidence.

See infowars website

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Barring July 21, 2014 at 6:19 pm

Fake US evidence debunked:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piec

The crime was committed by the Ukrainian puppet government, seemingly with support from the US via the CIA.

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Blue Jay July 21, 2014 at 8:47 pm

Funny picture here:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2895/14057923668_0

We should do one for Obama. Anyone who follow the media and point fingers at the Russians or Independence Seekers in E. Ukraine deserve a picture like this.

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d. kellogg July 22, 2014 at 12:32 pm

Yes, of course, the CIA did it.
Instigated the shooting down of an entire airliner,
when they don't even have the testicular fortitude (balls) to target known individual dissidents whose whereabouts they have considerable surveillance on.
10,000 individual troublemakers on the CIA's "We don't like you" list, individuals they seemingly are too squeamish to put out a hit on to get rid of them once and for all, yet the same CIA won't hesitate to orchestrate a complex plot to bring down an entire airliner, ~conveniently~ laden with several of the world's reknowned AIDS researchers?

Why go after an individual when instead dozens, even hundreds of others can be mass targetetted and the blame laid upon someone else, because the rumor-driven media can spread all kinds of disinformation to the generally ignorant masses in a heartbeat…??

I'll cosider your post was sarcasm. If the CIA can't take ot an individual, they sure as hell ain't smart enough to take out a few hundred in one well-schemed shot.

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Blue Jay July 22, 2014 at 12:57 pm

and JFK had committed suicide.

If we want to read something stupid or brain dead, there are plenty of it on NY Times and CNN. No need to reinvent the wheels here.

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Oksana Delgado July 24, 2014 at 1:14 am

It was not debunked.
1. Such big boards could be everywhere
2. If you check the video you will see wires of a street car. Krasnoarmeisk does not have street cars. Krasnodon, where Ukraine claims video was made, does have street cars.

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SRI July 22, 2014 at 2:41 am

Blaming is easy but truth lies somewhere between Conspiracy & Diplomacy. Mighty cannot be sued in this world despite clear evidences. The innocent people were caught in the hands of two super powers.

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outdoor adventure July 22, 2014 at 6:35 pm

It’s hard to come by educated people about this subject, however,
you sound like you know what you’re talking about! Thanks

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Ales Ogrinc July 19, 2014 at 4:38 am

or the russians right? they all got blod on there hands but past is past, they should have all learned about it and this time its clear that somebody with no brain on russian side let the use of weapons that need skills.

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@GreensboroVet July 21, 2014 at 2:18 pm

Russia did it when they shoot down that Korean Airliner.

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Question everything July 20, 2014 at 9:04 pm

OK, there is no hard evidence but:

explain the 24 hour convoy of military vehicles going between Baghdad and Syria two weeks prior to invasion after the Russians tipped off Saddam the attack was coming. These trucks were seen delivering items into the Baca Valley.

The fact that most all western intel organizations said they were there

Neither you or I can know for sure, but there is quite a bit of compelling evidence to believe they were there but moved.

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german July 21, 2014 at 5:04 pm

That's only after repeated warnings over the course of over two years. The Korean Airline pilots took it upon themselves to help the US military test Soviet Air Defense Radars.

In effect, the US murdered the Koreans, not the Russians.

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True American July 23, 2014 at 8:45 pm

And to add to my last post as True American…The world is lucky that America, The most powerful nation in the world, hasn't put back into existence the Pax Romana. It worked good for the Romans 2000 years ago. I bet it would work out even better in this technologically advanced – nuclear empowered age!!
USA!! USA!! USA Forever!!!

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tiff July 23, 2014 at 9:34 pm

forgot your meds again?

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